tapering off valium

I am tapering off valium - it's a little complicated. I have used benzos/alcohol on and off, mostly w success at keeping severe DTs at bay. A friend of mine passed away recently and I was drinking too much, using valium to ease off the benders, eating little bits. I didn't really realize it had been a couple of months at it until I was in the hospital the other day thinking I had heart/BP problems and kind of realized what was up when 1mg ativan straightened me out ;(.

 

here's the thing - I have used alcohol extensively, and I will start getting DT's from 2 nights drinking 8+ drinks. My mother/sister are same way. I kind of stupidly was messing w a peptide -bpc157 during this time, which I think may have done something to my GABA system further -- either way -- I have been using (retrospectively from my notes) somewhere 2.5 - 10mg a day. I tried going to 2.5 the other day and had these terrible symptoms. I decided to stabilize myself, and im at 8mg and feeling OK.  BP much better, much less of all symptoms. I had to split it up over the course of the day.. my first step I think is to try and get things to 2 doses at 12 hours and then try and reduce by .5 mg a day? I am honestly shocked at the level of WD symptoms I was getting -- that is why I thought it could not be the valium, I have come off 10mg before and it was uncomfortable, but nothing like this. I guess I am just older/more sensitive, and maybe the BPC didn't help. Just really hoping my body catches up and I am able to ease out. I was going to drop .5mg a day until it was intolerable and then stabilize a few days and continue. I have access to clonidine, propranolol (beta blocker) and terazosin (alpha blocker) --- are these useful in this process?

 

Thank you for your assistance.

 

 

I am tapering off valium - it's a little complicated. I have used benzos/alcohol on and off, mostly w success at keeping severe DTs at bay. A friend of mine passed away recently and I was drinking too much, using valium to ease off the benders, eating little bits. I didn't really realize it had been a couple of months at it until I was in the hospital the other day thinking I had heart/BP problems and kind of realized what was up when 1mg ativan straightened me out ;(.

 

here's the thing - I have used alcohol extensively, and I will start getting DT's from 2 nights drinking 8+ drinks. My mother/sister are same way. I kind of stupidly was messing w a peptide -bpc157 during this time, which I think may have done something to my GABA system further -- either way -- I have been using (retrospectively from my notes) somewhere 2.5 - 10mg a day. I tried going to 2.5 the other day and had these terrible symptoms. I decided to stabilize myself, and im at 8mg and feeling OK.  BP much better, much less of all symptoms. I had to split it up over the course of the day.. my first step I think is to try and get things to 2 doses at 12 hours and then try and reduce by .5 mg a day? I am honestly shocked at the level of WD symptoms I was getting -- that is why I thought it could not be the valium, I have come off 10mg before and it was uncomfortable, but nothing like this. I guess I am just older/more sensitive, and maybe the BPC didn't help. Just really hoping my body catches up and I am able to ease out. I was going to drop .5mg a day until it was intolerable and then stabilize a few days and continue. I have access to clonidine, propranolol (beta blocker) and terazosin (alpha blocker) --- are these useful in this process?

 

Thank you for your assistance.

 

Hello xkr-

 

Sorry to hear of the loss of your friend.

 

As you have found out, combining the benzo and alcohol can produce significant symptoms when in withdrawal from both consecutively. Because the benzo is often given to alcoholics to help reduce the DT's and you have used alcohol extensively, I would suggest that you free yourself from alcohol prior to beginning your benzo taper.

 

Once you are stable only then begin a taper from the benzo. Do what ever it takes to find alternative coping skills otherwise this cycle will probably continue to repeat itself.

 

While you are stabilizing from the alcohol withdrawal come up with a strategy for tapering the benzo. Many who are symptomatic report having more tolerable symptoms by reducing small amounts more often rather than making larger reductions less frequently. Read through the boards for more useful info.

I am well good and free of the alcohol. I have not had a drop in about 2 weeks. It was over this period that my overall GABA tone has slid terribly, yesterday I managed 8.5mg val fairly stable.

started today w 3mg, hope to make it to midday do 2 then 3 as the last dose, -- 8mg total .5 less than yesterday. Would also really like to know if clonidine or terazosin or propranolol will be helpful during this process. I have enough time, and I am fairly certain enough valium, I would obv rather do this for myself than have to go to the hospital. I am starting a new job and it truly is terrible timing. I am experienced w medication titration, I went through 3rd degree burns 2 years ago. 

Mainly I need: info on adjunctive medication, validation that I am not crazy and that you can see these symptoms out of this dosage level, and some recommendations about how i should deal w my doses.

 

Right now I am trying to do 3 (I was just nibbling thru the day which is how this mess started) doses, 3mg, 6hrs, 2mg, 8-10hrs 3mg. My plan is to start lowering the midday dose 1st and try to get to a 12 hour schedule. does that seem reasonable?

You may want to post your questions about Other Medications in the area of the forum where you'll get the most responses.  Some have found other medications help, others just the opposite, so take care what you choose to put into your body.

 

I feel you're tapering too quickly, I can tell you that this will not help your brain recover any faster, it will simply increase your pain and possibly leave you non-functioning.  If you're to start a new job soon, getting stabilized and tapering very slowly is something you ought to consider.

 

As for your current dosing schedule, I've not seen many members dose Valium that often since it's half life is so long, are you experiencing inter-dose withdrawal?

I am indeed experiencing interdose withdrawal, which is puzzling to me as well, but it is what it is. I can try and taper out as slow as possible, but this is not an Rxd medication so my access is somewhat limited I do have access, however, and several people supporting me in that. I realize that if I cannot obtain more I basically have to go straight to the hospital, this is a pretty un ideal situation. I just tried to have a small glass of kava w afternoon dose (things were going fine, very smooth, looking to be good at 8mg) and after about 10 minutes feeling ok i went straight to attack mode, BP spiraling etc. took .5mg loraz and now am feeling better. As I said, I think I may have done a number on my GABA receptors with a stupid experimental peptide. Maybe not the greatest idea ;( This was my first day of relative stability until that episode. There is a slight possibility that what I obtain is not valium, hower I am aware how val feels, and this does feel like it. I think my mistake was setting up multi-dosing in the first place - eating little bits as i felt stressed kind of like xanax. It's not for that, I think perhaps I am experienceing a mix of WD from the longer acting metabolites as well as the primary function of the val.

I have two concerns at the moment, one is your use of Kava, while I see it's thought to help with GAD, I'm not sure it's a good idea while tapering benzo's, there doesn't seem to be a general consensus that it will help and judging from your experience today, this appears to be the case.  Mind you, I'd never heard of Kava and just now consulted Dr Google, but given the liver damage concerns, I'd sure avoid it for now.

 

My second concern is the possibility you're not getting real Valium, from what you're describing this seems to be the case.  I wish you had access to a legal benzo, but if this is all you can get, then we need to proceed with what you've got.

 

Can you tell us how many pills you have to taper with and what dose?

 

 

 

 

will not be touching another drop of the kava. Now, my own history of my GABA system is extremely effed. I have been an off and on alcoholic for years, used benzos off and on, tapered myself out of alcohol multiple times and myself and mother and sister all will get alcohol DT symptoms even from a few days drinking - even after not doing it for a long time ;(

 

As to the second issue - I will find out tonight, but I am really inclined to think that it is indeed real diazepam - for one, 1mg of lorazepam stabilized me last time i was at the ER, and if it was some research chem super heavy benzo I would not even be touched by that. Additionally - when I first started to use it it seemed to work as desired in long acting fashion, as I proceeded to nibble little bits of it frequently that started to be more of a problem. ive currently got like 17 of these 10mg whatever they are, and ability to get more from several places. I am thinking of just stocking up as much as I can, obviously I would like to avoid the hospital if possible. However, I will for sure go if necessary.

It could be you've become tolerant to the Valium, so it's definitely time to get off of them.  I think stocking up is a good idea, this is apt to take awhile because of your history.  There is a theory called Kindling which many of our members ascribe to, you might want to check it out, it might help you get off and stay off benzo's and alcohol in the future.  I understand you, I've got some issues myself, but these darn benzo's scared me straight, nothing is worth the pain these things cause when they turn on you.

 

Try not to take anymore than 8 mgs tomorrow and for the next few days, take your doses at the same time each day and lets get you stable, okay?

absolutely, am fully aware of it and I am indeed scared straight. this has been hands down one of the most terrifying experiences in a life of terrifying experiences. I will be going for stability at 8mg tomorrow, 6 hours spaced, no kava, no bullshit. Pam - I really can't thank you enough, I have been tripping all day. I have done a lot of detoxes and something about this has a more gripping and intense quality.  I just got done dealing w PTSD over severe injuries in a fire, and this as they say is some icing on the cake. I just gotta get this stabilized and ok and I will feel much better about it. Thank you thank you thank you,

You've got a lot going on with the loss of your friend and your injuries from the fire, I hate that this is now going to take over your life, it just makes everything harder.  It sounds like you're very familiar with benzo's since you've sent others our way, but perhaps you could educate yourself a little more so you won't have so much fear.  It's one of our most powerful symptoms, so the more we know and understand about this process, the less we'll fear.

 

I'd like you to read this post from a member named parker, it speaks in terms which are understandable at least they are for me.  I wish it would have been around when I first joined, I had a lot of difficulty absorbing the Ashton manual. What is happening in your brain

I will read the post, am familiar w ashton manual. I am also familiar w alcohol DT's so, I am good for knowledge (am def going to read the post after i post this). I have honestly worked in harm reduction/recovery for a long time so this is a particularly ironic situation for me to be in (i originally typed stupid but, let's stop the self-defeating language here. I thought it was important to note). Honestly having a good community and finally understanding what is going on has dropped my BP 30 points. I am used to the alcohol DT timeline, but the benzo timeline is different, and because it was such a low dose I could not conceive that the symptoms were originating from the diazepam. Now that I have a handle on it fear is 90% less. Either I will do what I can or go to hospital and request medical detox. The relief at knowing it's not my heart/kidneys etc is tremendous. \

 

Post read. I am intimately familiar with the operations of the GABA/Glutamate axis and was glad for the recap and reminder of what is going on as far as symptomology.

 

OK, made it 11 hours through the night good sleep at 3mg (after the .75mg loraz for kava freakout) -- today I am going for stability at 8. took 3mg 10 am. doing 2mg 4pm, 3mg 11/12 pm. Hopefully get through day without any crazy BP issues.

I'm glad you have an understanding of the situation, that's more than I had when I quit cold turkey.  I'm also glad some of your fear has left, it's such a powerful symptom, I think if we could eliminate the fear, we could tolerate everything else much better.

 

I need to impress upon you how damaging going to the hospital could be. I hope you'll do everything in your power to avoid a medical detox, they will most likely taper you too quickly which will leave you incapacitated.  I've watched many members to do this only to reinstate and do a slow taper, such a waste.  This isn't like an alcohol detox where they give you some Librium and all was well and good 48 hours later, a detox from benzo's is basically a cold turkey and those are brutal.

I absolutely will do everything in my power to avoid a hospital detox, and a working to secure exactly what I need to make this work. I am particularly concerned because my health provider has a history of being absolutely terrible at handling things like this, in fact, I think I am avoiding my GP for the next few months until I can report in a reasonable way. the emergency visit was damaging to my medical history enough as is. ;P

 

So, 5:30 pm, no BP episodes, managed some exercise and yoga today, feeling a little activated but otherwise stable.  BP has been fairly stable, did the 3 / 2 / going to do 3 tonight split. I honestly feel i may be able to go lower. Tomorrow i will try 3 / 1.5 / 3. if it's awful I'll add the .5 back, luckily val is fine to do that with as the dose lasts so long. So, I should be able to do this at least half way correct. I have some more BPC coming (though i don't know if it would be helpful at this juncture) some ibudilast, bp meds. and most importantly I will have quite a bit of val. I also have a physician friend who i can call in absolute emergency that knows the score. And someone else holding some for similar reasons. So, about as covered as I can be I think, given the situation. My work is remote/work from home -- if I can present a good friend right after my doses and keep my work consistent it will be OK.

 

I am feeling better about this. Pamster - you're a damn angel. IYE what do you think is a reasonable time frame / speed to taper this? I have been on ~3mos -- tho w history of gaba/alcohol abuse/a pretty effed GABA system from the get go. give it to me str8, i can handle the juice. Gotta pay the piper and now is my time to give up the dues.

It sounds like you have a good support system in place, plus you have a lot of knowledge about these medications, the only thing we don't know is how long this is going to take.

 

Even though 3 months on the drug doesn't seem like much, your history with alcohol complicates this.  I can't say how long this is going to take, but I hope you'll go at a pace that allows you to function.  Symptom driven tapers are the best, hold when you need to, but not too long, make smaller cuts rather than large ones for which you may need to up-dose, these are the only rules going forward.

 

Be patient with yourself and your taper, you know what you're facing, choose to live your life as you do this and accept that time is the best healer. 

 

 

made it to last 3mg dose, no interdose wd all day. Tomorrow I am going to try 3 / 1 / 3... i think the faster i get to 12 hr dosing the better. if i experience any probs, i will add .5 mg

It would be good to get to the 12 hour dosing, and with Valium that should be enough.  We try to discourage up-dosing, your brain is seeking consistency so please do your best to provide it that. 

 

I can tell you're in a hurry but remember all you've read and know about your situation.

I am going through Hell. I have been on valium for 20 yrs.

I got down to 4 m,g, 2 at night and 3/4 or 1 mg a day.

For 8 yrs on this dose as low as it is I have been in withdrawal.. I didn't know what was wrong with me til I saw Lisa Lang's documentary on CNN

the Drs know nothing about this. They have tried adding anti depressents

Nothing worked.

I tried to start the water taper yesterday and did my 1 mg dose like that...and it was completely dissolved, but did nothing...so I had to take another 1 mg to stop withdrawal I cannot go below what I am taking. I try not to take more than that, but because of this I realize that all my symptoms are withdrawal.

It's been 8 or 9 yrs of this and I do not know what to do.

I wish I could locate a benzo knowledgeable Dr in the Sherman Oaks, North Hollywood, Burbank, Encino, Los Angeles, Beverly Hills area who takes insurance

or do the slow water taper on my own

 

If anyone has any suggestions. I'd appreciate it. I am so anxious to get out of this misery.

I am going through Hell. I have been on valium for 20 yrs.

I got down to 4 m,g, 2 at night and 3/4 or 1 mg a day.

For 8 yrs on this dose as low as it is I have been in withdrawal.. I didn't know what was wrong with me til I saw Lisa Lang's documentary on CNN

the Drs know nothing about this. They have tried adding anti depressents

Nothing worked.

I tried to start the water taper yesterday and did my 1 mg dose like that...and it was completely dissolved, but did nothing...so I had to take another 1 mg to stop withdrawal I cannot go below what I am taking. I try not to take more than that, but because of this I realize that all my symptoms are withdrawal.

It's been 8 or 9 yrs of this and I do not know what to do.

I wish I could locate a benzo knowledgeable Dr in the Sherman Oaks, North Hollywood, Burbank, Encino, Los Angeles, Beverly Hills area who takes insurance

or do the slow water taper on my own

 

If anyone has any suggestions. I'd appreciate it. I am so anxious to get out of this misery.

 

Hi radha gita,

 

If you'll start a thread of your own using this link, I'm sure others will gladly stop by to offer you help.  Just click on the link, and you'll see a tab on the upper right side of your screen which says New Topic.  Click on that, put in a subject title, type your comments in the body and hit post.  Withdrawal Support (during your taper)

 

Pamster