Author Topic: Is the anecdotal consensus that frequent as-needed usage contributes to kindling  (Read 313 times)

[Buddie]

I know kindling really doesn’t have much science behind it at this time when it comes to benzos but it’s difficult to discount the stories of people who have said one withdrawal or 20 withdrawals were easy and then, BOOM, welcome to hell, seemingly out of nowhere.

If withdrawal refers to anytime a benzo leaves your system, then everyone who has ever taken benzos goes through withdrawal whether they feel fine or whether it destroys them.

I’ve also heard kindling described as happening when a moderately bad withdrawal happens over and over which then turns into a hellacious one.

So, are long-term “as-needed” users who fall into daily use for a while as I did candidates setting ourselves up to be heavily kindled?

Before falling into this daily use I never even considered the fact that I could have ever “withdrawn” because it was such a normal thing for me to start and stop. Give my body a break, make sure I wasn’t relying too much on the pills. But I suppose I could have had withdrawals many times without knowing, in which case I could be kindled to sh*t after this daily [...]. That really scares me.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

I know kindling really doesn’t have much science behind it at this time when it comes to benzos but it’s difficult to discount the stories of people who have said one withdrawal or 20 withdrawals were easy and then, BOOM, welcome to hell, seemingly out of nowhere.

If withdrawal refers to anytime a benzo leaves your system, then everyone who has ever taken benzos goes through withdrawal whether they feel fine or whether it destroys them.

I’ve also heard kindling described as happening when a moderately bad withdrawal happens over and over which then turns into a hellacious one.

So, are long-term “as-needed” users who fall into daily use for a while as I did candidates setting ourselves up to be heavily kindled?

Before falling into this daily use I never even considered the fact that I could have ever “withdrawn” because it was such a normal thing for me to start and stop. Give my body a break, make sure I wasn’t relying too much on the pills. But I suppose I could have had withdrawals many times without knowing, in which case I could be kindled to sh*t after this daily [...]. That really scares me.


From:

https://benzoreform.org/withdrawal/

"... Though not well understood, it appears that benzodiazepine exposure “primes the neurophysiologic pump” such that for some individuals following dose reduction, periodic additional “as needed” doses may light the fire (aka "kindling") of withdrawal symptoms, making subsequent reductions more difficult.

"...In another clinical circumstance of kindling, there are patients who, having had minimal if any withdrawal symptoms, have far worse withdrawal severity if they restart benzodiazepines and attempt to stop again. This can get worse time and again with each attempt at discontinuation after re-initiation. Such a phenomenon is also seen in some individuals with alcohol problems in which such kindling is better understood."


I believe the "science" comes from alcohol withdrawal but since benzos and alcohol work on the same
GABBA receptors, its a pretty good assumption (and from anecdotal evidence) that "kindling" applies to benzos as well. This is also probably why "re-instating" a benzo after being off for a while (again from anecdotal evidence) generally does not "put you back where you quit".

I think most of us (including me) were prescribed benzos "PRN- taken as needed"..... which worked.... until it didn't work.  Yes.... scares the sh*t out of me too.... like everything else that benzo withdrawal continues to throw our way.

If your intent is to get off benzos, there is lots of good info on this site regarding coming up with a sensible taper,  which IMHO would be a good place for you to start.

 
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

My doctor, who is pretty knowledgeable about BW, says that as needed use won’t crest kindling.  She believes it’s consistent everyday use that is the killer.  And I was three times a day for 18 years!  Yikes, what were my docs thinking?  (Although I had no complaints until about year 15).
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

My doctor, who is pretty knowledgeable about BW, says that as needed use won’t crest kindling.  She believes it’s consistent everyday use that is the killer.  And I was three times a day for 18 years!  Yikes, what were my docs thinking?  (Although I had no complaints until about year 15).

Oh, man, you were in it for the long haul. Amazing that you have a knowledgeable doc, though! How far out are you?
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

I know kindling really doesn’t have much science behind it at this time when it comes to benzos but it’s difficult to discount the stories of people who have said one withdrawal or 20 withdrawals were easy and then, BOOM, welcome to hell, seemingly out of nowhere.

If withdrawal refers to anytime a benzo leaves your system, then everyone who has ever taken benzos goes through withdrawal whether they feel fine or whether it destroys them.

I’ve also heard kindling described as happening when a moderately bad withdrawal happens over and over which then turns into a hellacious one.

So, are long-term “as-needed” users who fall into daily use for a while as I did candidates setting ourselves up to be heavily kindled?

Before falling into this daily use I never even considered the fact that I could have ever “withdrawn” because it was such a normal thing for me to start and stop. Give my body a break, make sure I wasn’t relying too much on the pills. But I suppose I could have had withdrawals many times without knowing, in which case I could be kindled to sh*t after this daily [...]. That really scares me.
If you started and stopped and didn't have w/d symptoms then you didn't have w/d. The only way to know if you will have w/d is to quit and see what happens. Curious as to why you're here asking questions like this. Do you want to quit benzos or just want reassurance that you're ok taking benzos when you feel like it? Taking benzos is fine until it isn't. No one can predict when that is going to happen or if it is going to happen. Believe me, you would know if you had withdrawal symptoms.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

My doctor, who is pretty knowledgeable about BW, says that as needed use won’t crest kindling.  She believes it’s consistent everyday use that is the killer.  And I was three times a day for 18 years!  Yikes, what were my docs thinking?  (Although I had no complaints until about year 15).

Oh, man, you were in it for the long haul. Amazing that you have a knowledgeable doc, though! How far out are you?

I’m 8 months out and in hell. 

During my first 2-3 years I actually quit Klonopin several times (from everyday use) because I was concerned about dependence.  I didn’t have much of a problem getting off them either.  Problem was that a lot of ADs weren’t helpful and actually made anxiety/panic worse so I just kept going back to Klonopin which I can’t believe a doctor would do.  Don’t think they knew then what they know now.  Then I just said screw it I guess I’ll be on these forever. 

I definitely believe for me that length of time on benzos correlates to the severity of withdrawals.  Like I said above, I had quit several times after taking them for 3 months, 6 months, etc with little problem.  Then I go 15 years straight being on Klonopin, try to get off, and am in utter hell.  I guess the benzos had done a lot of damage by that point though so the recovery would be more difficult.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

very ocasional daily user with very long breaks in between here.. still fell in the trap
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.