Jump to content

Is it true we are the 25%


[su...]

Recommended Posts

Good article by Breggin. The Ashton Manual link was to the entire manual. Has Ashton updated this excerpt, I am not an Ashton Manual expert by any means:

 

https://benzo.org.uk/ashsupp11.htm

 

Permanent brain damage?

 

Structural damage. Many long-term benzodiazepine users who have stopped taking the drugs complain of a variety of seemingly irreversible psychological and/or physical symptoms which they attribute to permanent brain damage caused by the drugs. However, the question of whether benzodiazepines cause brain damage is still unsolved. In 1982 Professor Malcolm Lader and colleagues reported the results of a small study using CAT (computerised axial tomography) brain scans in 14 long-term benzodiazepines users compared with control subjects. Two of the benzodiazepine users had definite cortical brain atrophy and there was a borderline abnormality in five others; the rest were normal. In a 1984 study by Professor Lader involving 20 patients, the results were again suggestive but there was no relationship between CAT scan appearances and the duration of benzodiazepine therapy. The study concluded "The clinical significance of the findings is unclear." Subsequent CAT scan studies in 1987, 1993, and 2000 failed to find any consistent abnormalities in long-term benzodiazepine users, and concluded that benzodiazepines do not cause structural brain damage, e.g death of neurones, brain shrinkage or atrophy etc. A later more accurate development in brain scanning, MRI (magnetic resonance imaging), does not appear to have been systematically studied in benzodiazepine users. However MRI, like CAT, only shows structural changes and it is unlikely that the use of this technique would clarify the picture; many still symptomatic long-term ex-benzodiazepine users have had normal MRIs.

 

Functional damage. It is more likely that any long-term brain changes caused by benzodiazepines are functional rather than structural. In order to show such changes it would be necessary to examine abnormalities of brain activity in long-term benzodiazepine users. Techniques for such studies are available: fMRI (functional MRI) measures regional blood flow; PET (positron emission tomography) and SPECT (single photon emission tomography) measure neurotransmitter and receptor activity; QEEG (quantitative electroencephalography) and MEG (magnetoencephalography) measure regional electrical activity. None of these techniques has been utilised in controlled studies of long-term benzodiazepine users. Cognitive performance could indicate impairments in certain brain areas, but no studies have extended for more than six months. Finally post-mortem studies could show abnormalities in brain receptors, and animal studies could show changes in neuronal gene expression. None of these studies has been undertaken. Nor have there been any studies examining abnormalities in other tissues or organs in long-term benzodiazepine users.

 

A controlled study of long-term benzodiazepine users using brain function techniques would have to be carefully designed and would involve a large number of age and sex matched subjects, probably over 100 in both control and user groups. In the benzodiazepine group it would have to take into account dose, type of benzodiazepine, duration of use, psychiatric history, symptoms, use of alcohol and other drugs, and a number of other factors. Such a study would be expensive and funding would be difficult to obtain. Drug companies would be unlikely to offer support, and to date 'independent' bodies such as the Medical Research Council, the Wellcome Foundation and the Department of Health have shown little interest. Thus the question of whether benzodiazepines cause brain or other organ damage remains unanswered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 57
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • [Fl...]

    10

  • [Te...]

    5

  • [Pt...]

    5

  • [to...]

    4

Good article by Breggin. The Ashton Manual link was to the entire manual. Has Ashton updated this excerpt, I am not an Ashton Manual expert by any means:

 

Do benzodiazepines cause structural brain damage? These results have raised the question of whether benzodiazepines can cause structural brain damage. Like alcohol, benzodiazepines are fat soluble and are taken up by the fat-containing (lipid) membranes of brain cells. It has been suggested that their use over many years could cause physical changes such as shrinkage of the cerebral cortex, as has been shown in chronic alcoholics, and that such changes may be only partially reversible after withdrawal. However, despite several computed tomography (CT) scan studies, no signs of brain atrophy have been conclusively demonstrated in therapeutic dose users, and even the results in high dose abusers are inconclusive. It is possible that benzodiazepines can cause subtle changes which are not detected by present methods, but on the available evidence there is no reason to think that any such changes would be permanent.

 

Citations?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FG, I think you will completely heal. I think I will too. Thinking that you won't will not help you get to the finish line any quicker. I get that you are frustrated beyond belief but you need to stop thinking that some people don't heal. It isn't good for you or us to see you say that every day. Some people just take a long time to heal. Based on your history I see no reason why you are going to be stuck like this forever. You need to turn on that epigenetic switch towards that healing path by telling yourself that this will end everyday..... not telling yourself on a daily basis and us on a daily basis that not everyone heals bullshit. It's bullshit! And I'm not going to take a bite out of it! Got it dude! I'm sick of reading it. You're going to heal FG. Just have faith in yourself that you will.

 

I can't operate on faith. I did that in the early days but all that did was cause me to stagnate. It's much easier to stay in one place when you are in great pain if you keep telling yourself that you will be better in a few weeks or a few months.

 

Unfortunately however, life waits for no one and some point you have to get real. Acknowledging my predicament and accepting the fact that I might be significantly impaired indefinitely has at least allowed me to start to move forward with my life. If I had kept telling myself I would be healed in a few months I doubt I would have been able to start a business, build a tiny house and office, move back out on my own and work full time to at least provide myself with my basic needs.

 

When you are in a ton of pain and your brain doesn't operate properly it's really easy to slack off if you tell yourself this will all be over with soon but at some point I was no longer able to keep denying the fact that my progress percentage could only be measured in the low single digits year to year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good article by Breggin. The Ashton Manual link was to the entire manual. Has Ashton updated this excerpt, I am not an Ashton Manual expert by any means:

 

Do benzodiazepines cause structural brain damage? These results have raised the question of whether benzodiazepines can cause structural brain damage. Like alcohol, benzodiazepines are fat soluble and are taken up by the fat-containing (lipid) membranes of brain cells. It has been suggested that their use over many years could cause physical changes such as shrinkage of the cerebral cortex, as has been shown in chronic alcoholics, and that such changes may be only partially reversible after withdrawal. However, despite several computed tomography (CT) scan studies, no signs of brain atrophy have been conclusively demonstrated in therapeutic dose users, and even the results in high dose abusers are inconclusive.  It is possible that benzodiazepines can cause subtle changes which are not detected by present methods, but on the available evidence there is no reason to think that any such changes would be permanent.

 

Citations?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good article by Breggin. The Ashton Manual link was to the entire manual. Has Ashton updated this excerpt, I am not an Ashton Manual expert by any means:

 

https://benzo.org.uk/ashsupp11.htm

 

Permanent brain damage?

 

Structural damage. Many long-term benzodiazepine users who have stopped taking the drugs complain of a variety of seemingly irreversible psychological and/or physical symptoms which they attribute to permanent brain damage caused by the drugs. However, the question of whether benzodiazepines cause brain damage is still unsolved. In 1982 Professor Malcolm Lader and colleagues reported the results of a small study using CAT (computerised axial tomography) brain scans in 14 long-term benzodiazepines users compared with control subjects. Two of the benzodiazepine users had definite cortical brain atrophy and there was a borderline abnormality in five others; the rest were normal. In a 1984 study by Professor Lader involving 20 patients, the results were again suggestive but there was no relationship between CAT scan appearances and the duration of benzodiazepine therapy. The study concluded "The clinical significance of the findings is unclear." Subsequent CAT scan studies in 1987, 1993, and 2000 failed to find any consistent abnormalities in long-term benzodiazepine users, and concluded that benzodiazepines do not cause structural brain damage, e.g death of neurones, brain shrinkage or atrophy etc. A later more accurate development in brain scanning, MRI (magnetic resonance imaging), does not appear to have been systematically studied in benzodiazepine users. However MRI, like CAT, only shows structural changes and it is unlikely that the use of this technique would clarify the picture; many still symptomatic long-term ex-benzodiazepine users have had normal MRIs.

 

Functional damage. It is more likely that any long-term brain changes caused by benzodiazepines are functional rather than structural.  In order to show such changes it would be necessary to examine abnormalities of brain activity in long-term benzodiazepine users. Techniques for such studies are available: fMRI (functional MRI) measures regional blood flow; PET (positron emission tomography) and SPECT (single photon emission tomography) measure neurotransmitter and receptor activity; QEEG (quantitative electroencephalography) and MEG (magnetoencephalography) measure regional electrical activity. None of these techniques has been utilised in controlled studies of long-term benzodiazepine users. Cognitive performance could indicate impairments in certain brain areas, but no studies have extended for more than six months. Finally post-mortem studies could show abnormalities in brain receptors, and animal studies could show changes in neuronal gene expression. None of these studies has been undertaken. Nor have there been any studies examining abnormalities in other tissues or organs in long-term benzodiazepine users.

 

A controlled study of long-term benzodiazepine users using brain function techniques would have to be carefully designed and would involve a large number of age and sex matched subjects, probably over 100 in both control and user groups. In the benzodiazepine group it would have to take into account dose, type of benzodiazepine, duration of use, psychiatric history, symptoms, use of alcohol and other drugs, and a number of other factors. Such a study would be expensive and funding would be difficult to obtain. Drug companies would be unlikely to offer support, and to date 'independent' bodies such as the Medical Research Council, the Wellcome Foundation and the Department of Health have shown little interest. Thus the question of whether benzodiazepines cause brain or other organ damage remains unanswered.

 

The last sentence would indicate Ashton did not support or deny the theory of brain damage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The last sentence would indicate Ashton did not support or deny the theory of brain damage.

 

When you can't remember today's date over and over again 5 minutes apart, what else do you call that?

 

Addiction? Dependence? Malingering?

 

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I also have other executive function issues,  balance issues, dizziness, inability to focus and concentrate, head pain and pressure, sleep issues. These are only the symptoms I still have that I have in common with a traumatic brain injury. There are probably a dozen other benzo symptoms I used to have that are now gone that are also common to people with a brain injury.

 

Clonazepam obviously damaged something in my body. If it isn't my brain, what is it? As far as I know that's the only organ in the body that is responsible for memory and other executive functions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Florida, I noticed u had paranoia. Did u ever have agoraphobia or were housebound?

 

I did have some agoraphobia early on. I lived in a downtown condo at the time. The building was super long. I remember feeling this panic coming over me as I was walking down this hallway that was like a block long heading to the parking garage. Never had that kind of anxiety before in my life, much less over something like an empty hallway.

 

It never got to the point where I was unable to leave my house but I didn't get out as much at that time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Florida, I noticed u had paranoia. Did u ever have agoraphobia or were housebound?

 

I did have some agoraphobia early on. I lived in a downtown condo at the time. The building was super long. I remember feeling this panic coming over me as I was walking down this hallway that was like a block long heading to the parking garage. Never had that kind of anxiety before in my life, much less over something like an empty hallway.

 

It never got to the point where I was unable to leave my house but I didn't get out as much at that time.

 

You just described how I am everyday along with social anxiety.  It's an absolute mind f.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How do I attach a PDF for others to read? I have some research files from the Medical Research Council which met in 1982 to study benzos and possible cerebral atrophy. 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are some benzo related quotes that may shed some light on numbers (if they are accurate):

 

 

“It is estimated that 1.5 million people’s lives have been destroyed by involuntary tranquilliser addiction

leading to long periods of mental ill health. A man whom I met recently had been on tranquillisers for

45 years. Those people want to work, but cannot do so. As far as I am aware, the only primary care

trust that has introduced a withdrawal programme is Oldham. Will the Secretary of State encourage

his Department and the Department of Health to study the Oldham model with the aim of getting some

of those people off prescription drugs and back to work? That would improve their quality of life, and

would reduce the benefits bill as well.”

Jim Dobbin (Heywood and Middleton) (Lab/Co-op)

Hansard 31 March 2008

 

 

"The Medical profession, I think, is fairly ashamed of what has happened. It has allowed this very

untrammelled prescribing to go on. My estimate is that there's something between a quarter and half a

million people in this country (England), at this moment, who would have problems trying to stop their

tranquillisers. They would need help to do so and there's been a sense that they're difficult to treat,

difficult to deal with and a lot of these patients are just kept on their medication indefinitely. No real

attempt is made to help them come off...the Government should tackle this problem face on. There are

thousands of people out there who are not receiving treatment, hundreds of GPs who don't know

really how to treat these patients. There are self-help groups who are crying out for funding just to

keep going at a very low level. I think the Government should now acknowledge the problem and set

funds aside, because if the Government doesn't do that, these people will go to their graves with their

tranquilliser bottles beside them."

Professor Malcolm H. Lader, ‘Face the Facts’, BBC Radio 4 1991

 

 

 

"There's still a significant continuing problem with benzodiazepines in this country. We would have

liked if it was solved 20 years ago, but it still exists. We continue to work as a College with prescribing

groups around the country to try and continue to raise awareness of this issue and reduce the

prescribing of these drugs to appropriate use, but it is a very long struggle...I think it should be a

significant priority for this country. It's potentially a million people who are on drugs which only maybe

is a tiny percentage of them need to be on, and that is not good for this country. It's also a waste of

resource. We are ploughing money into these drugs and into support services for patients for a

situation that we may have created ourselves."

Dr Jim Kennedy, Royal College of General Practitioners, ‘The Tranquilliser Trap’, BBC, May 2001

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FG, I think you will completely heal. I think I will too. Thinking that you won't will not help you get to the finish line any quicker. I get that you are frustrated beyond belief but you need to stop thinking that some people don't heal. It isn't good for you or us to see you say that every day. Some people just take a long time to heal. Based on your history I see no reason why you are going to be stuck like this forever. You need to turn on that epigenetic switch towards that healing path by telling yourself that this will end everyday..... not telling yourself on a daily basis and us on a daily basis that not everyone heals bullshit. It's bullshit! And I'm not going to take a bite out of it! Got it dude! I'm sick of reading it. You're going to heal FG. Just have faith in yourself that you will.

 

I can't operate on faith. I did that in the early days but all that did was cause me to stagnate. It's much easier to stay in one place when you are in great pain if you keep telling yourself that you will be better in a few weeks or a few months.

 

Unfortunately however, life waits for no one and some point you have to get real. Acknowledging my predicament and accepting the fact that I might be significantly impaired indefinitely has at least allowed me to start to move forward with my life. If I had kept telling myself I would be healed in a few months I doubt I would have been able to start a business, build a tiny house and office, move back out on my own and work full time to at least provide myself with my basic needs.

 

When you are in a ton of pain and your brain doesn't operate properly it's really easy to slack off if you tell yourself this will all be over with soon but at some point I was no longer able to keep denying the fact that my progress percentage could only be measured in the low single digits year to year.

 

 

The consensus is that most people recover. Some say everyone heals but I wonder if that is true for the severe cases. But even those people seem to get better over time. Are you saying that recovery is a lie, that the administrators and other members are shoveling manure? I used to think people who CT'ed are screwed but even they seem to heal. I know 2 people who have CT'ed in real life and they are fine. One of them struggles with depression though but says his cognitive functioning is really good.

 

How do you know for sure if it is benzos and not some other predicament that is plaguing you? I mean how can you really know for sure, you really can't if you think about it.

 

Have you considered hyperbaric O2 tank therapy, NAD+ infusions, mesenchymal stem cells or any other treatments to help you along?

 

I agree that if you are still experiencing extreme physical symptoms that resemble acute benzo stuff that there is probably something related to that going on. I think the severe benzo headaches, tinnitus and dizziness are symptoms to be concerned about. God man, if you have the money you should at least try hyperbaric O2 therapy.

 

I'm sorry if I was being rude before but I am getting sick of people always taking the negative approach to thinking about this situation.  I get you have been at this for 10 years and went through your stages of realization with the grieving process. You still need to have faith in yourself to heal from this entirely, it seems that you have lost that and reached a point where you are trying to accept that you have to live with this indefinitely, and that is a mistake in my opinion. And you are telling us that we have to do the same which angers me considering that you are a minority of a minority, unless I am being lied to. I do feel like I'm being lied to to a certain extent and I'm trying to figure out how much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The last sentence would indicate Ashton did not support or deny the theory of brain damage.

 

When you can't remember today's date over and over again 5 minutes apart, what else do you call that?

 

Addiction? Dependence? Malingering?

 

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I also have other executive function issues,  balance issues, dizziness, inability to focus and concentrate, head pain and pressure, sleep issues. These are only the symptoms I still have that I have in common with a traumatic brain injury. There are probably a dozen other benzo symptoms I used to have that are now gone that are also common to people with a brain injury.

 

Clonazepam obviously damaged something in my body. If it isn't my brain, what is it? As far as I know that's the only organ in the body that is responsible for memory and other executive functions.

 

I feel I have a lot of the same symptoms as you do, FG. I have no way of knowing whether these problems are caused by the high dose of Labetalol in conjunction with the benzos, but I feel very definitely that the benzos have a large part to play in this. I have a very difficult time focusing, have a bad attention span, can't remember what I just did, am always worried about how I say words and think of every word I say, and I have EXTREME dizziness issues and problems with gait. If I turn to look backwards, I'm like a drunk person. I end up on the other side of the sidewalk. It's quite scary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The consensus is that most people recover. Some say everyone heals but I wonder if that is true for the severe cases. But even those people seem to get better over time. Are you saying that recovery is a lie, that the administrators and other members are shoveling manure?

 

I agree with all of this, but the fact is that no one really knows, and there are examples of people who are even further along than I am who are still symptomatic. Many people seem to write severe protracted cases off as people who have "other" problems, just like the rest of society writes all of us off. The rest of the world thinks that a prescription drug can't possibly do this to people. Pretty much all of us here know that it is absolutely possible to still be sick one year after cessation, but even people who have been through this themselves have a hard time believing that it can last for 3, 5 or even 10 years? The benzo community gaslights it's own after a certain period of time. Think about that.

 

How do you know for sure if it is benzos and not some other predicament that is plaguing you? I mean how can you really know for sure, you really can't if you think about it.

 

How does anyone know any of this is "real"? When you have certain distinct symptoms that only started after coming off of the drug it's pretty easy to tell. I don't know whether my latest issues (migraines with auras and severe pain in my fingers and toes) is benzo rlated, but I am 100% positive that my cognitive issues, the poisoned benzo sick feeling and a few other things are a direct result of my CNS having been damaged by clonazepam.

 

Have you considered hyperbaric O2 tank therapy, NAD+ infusions, mesenchymal stem cells or any other treatments to help you along?

 

Who says any of this will help? I have been here close to 9 years and I have yet to see any sot of treatment that can reliably eliminate symptoms. Remember that "treatment" is what got us into this mess.

 

I agree that if you are still experiencing extreme physical symptoms that resemble acute benzo stuff that there is probably something related to that going on. I think the severe benzo headaches, tinnitus and dizziness are symptoms to be concerned about. God man, if you have the money you should at least try hyperbaric O2 therapy.

 

I work full time but it's all I can do to pay my normal bills.

 

I'm sorry if I was being rude before but I am getting sick of people always taking the negative approach to thinking about this situation.  I get you have been at this for 10 years and went through your stages of realization with the grieving process. You still need to have faith in yourself to heal from this entirely, it seems that you have lost that and reached a point where you are trying to accept that you have to live with this indefinitely, and that is a mistake in my opinion. And you are telling us that we have to do the same which angers me considering that you are a minority of a minority, unless I am being lied to. I do feel like I'm being lied to to a certain extent and I'm trying to figure out how much.

 

One person's negativity is just another person keeping it real. Where do you draw the line? Are you going to tell me that there is no consequence to unbridled optimism? There are more than a few people on the protracted board who are pretty upset because we were lead to believe that all of us would be healed by now. It works both ways.

 

You are free to look at this however you like, but keep in mind that different people have different ways of coping with this and some of us find hope in accepting the fact that we have no idea how long this is going to take and that we might be dealing with this in some capacity for a very long time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel I have a lot of the same symptoms as you do, FG. I have no way of knowing whether these problems are caused by the high dose of Labetalol in conjunction with the benzos, but I feel very definitely that the benzos have a large part to play in this. I have a very difficult time focusing, have a bad attention span, can't remember what I just did, am always worried about how I say words and think of every word I say, and I have EXTREME dizziness issues and problems with gait. If I turn to look backwards, I'm like a drunk person. I end up on the other side of the sidewalk. It's quite scary.

 

I have no way of knowing how much of a role if any AD's played in this for me, but as far as I am concerned it's the same issue and it doesn't make any difference either way since there is no treatment available.

 

Pretty convenient that the one thing that basically all of us here have in common is that we were on benzos, and most of us only started having serious issues while coming off the drug or after we are off though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, I had a terrible time ON benzos. Right away I started feeling very anxious around 4 p.m. I remember thinking that this was a strange feeling; I'd never had it before. Then awhile later I developed dizziness really badly. Then, finally, the real clincher was vertigo. I remember walking in an intersection and hoping to god that I could make it across the street and lean against a traffic pole until it passed. I went home and had 3 Ativans, I was so scared. I'd had a mini-stroke previously because of an allergy to NSAIDS and not "getting" what my problem was. So it was a pretty harrowing time for me. The PA didn't say anything, and I had no reason to question her. After two more major vertigo spells, I started checking on the Internet, and there I found my answer.

 

On the bottle was typed "as needed," so that's what I did - used them as needed. Big mistake...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love all the anecdotal evidence here and to paraphrase:

 

“Well my Aunt Gertrude took them for 20 Years and had absolutely no problem coming off on a fast taper...”.

 

Well you might want to check Aunt Gertrude’s medicine cabinet.  My husband and I know of 7 people (who are long term users) and none of them have been able to taper let alone actually get off. My sister in law has been on Klonopin for over twenty years. She has tried to taper for the last few years and it’s been a disaster. We suggested she remain at her current dose as she is somewhat functional. But according to her psychiatrist, it’s just her underlying anxiety. Guess what?  In the last year this so called “doctor” has added:

 

SSRI

Seroquel

Risperidone

 

Now my brother in law is at wits’ end. And once again, we have warned him about poly drugging.

There are no long term studies to show why so many people just drop off the face of the earth. My SIL’s life has no profit in our current medical model. She is now a liability and must be dismissed.

 

In addition, if you have been clinically cleared of other physical and mental diagnosis’s, it’s the benzos. Don’t let a few gas lighters, whatever their intentions, let you doubt what your symptoms are and please understand that protracted withdrawal is indeed normal.

 

Just my take.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, there are no studies as to how many people have problems getting off benzos. It's all speculation, IMO. There are those who have tried and then given up and are still on the benzo. There are those who have gotten off but have committed suicide. There are those who are protracted but hide it from doctors (I'm one of them). I knew one BB member here who was on Ativan for 4 weeks, and it took her over a year to recover.

 

Dr. Lembke of Stanford talked about tolerance and withdrawal. At about 1:58 she talks about the fact that people say 25% have tolerance, but it's not known because it's BEEN ACTIVELY NOT STUDIED, VERY ODDLY.

 

Many of us have been shunned by doctors or made fun of, laughed at, and other ugly remarks made. We've learned to shut our mouths, and since there are very few people to back us up (one doctor, per Drew, called Professor Ashton an "old bag," I believe), we keep quiet, unfortunately causing this terrible scourge to go on and on and on and on and on...

 

I don't blame anyone for keeping quiet. It's a rough world in the medical community, and doctors are often impatient, think too highly of themselves, feel that they're right regardless of what a patient says, and follow a herd mentality. What goes for one doctor in a medical group usually goes for all. Doctors who have the courage to step out of line are at times shunned, IMO.

 

Benzo = a doctor's way of saying I have no idea how to help you, here you go, get out of my office, without admitting ineptitude and losing face. it's a conspiracy lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Babyrex,

 

WAs/am on benzos 40 years.  Was tapering slowly, no prob, til 6 weeks of mirtazapine.  THAT made me sick for sure... could not take it, stopped it.  THEN disaster.

 

Don't know what to do.  Have had no success getting off and wonder if some of us long timers should just go back or up.

 

But agree if something makes you sick right off, do not listen to drs and 'give it a chance' better to abort stop it (tho had no idea would go into withdrawal after 6 weeks of mirtaz, obviously).

 

I am rather believing will not get better with taper taper taper..... altho so many add stuff to get off then seem to get better.  With my luck will be worse on more drugs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love all the anecdotal evidence here and to paraphrase:

 

“Well my Aunt Gertrude took them for 20 Years and had absolutely no problem coming off on a fast taper...”.

 

Well you might want to check Aunt Gertrude’s medicine cabinet.  My husband and I know of 7 people (who are long term users) and none of them have been able to taper let alone actually get off. My sister in law has been on Klonopin for over twenty years. She has tried to taper for the last few years and it’s been a disaster. We suggested she remain at her current dose as she is somewhat functional. But according to her psychiatrist, it’s just her underlying anxiety. Guess what?  In the last year this so called “doctor” has added:

 

SSRI

Seroquel

Risperidone

 

Now my brother in law is at wits’ end. And once again, we have warned him about poly drugging.

There are no long term studies to show why so many people just drop off the face of the earth. My SIL’s life has no profit in our current medical model. She is now a liability and must be dismissed.

 

In addition, if you have been clinically cleared of other physical and mental diagnosis’s, it’s the benzos. Don’t let a few gas lighters, whatever their intentions, let you doubt what your symptoms are and please understand that protracted withdrawal is indeed normal.

 

Just my take.

 

 

Even Mayo Clinic lists the side effects now. I sure wish I would have had this information years ago:

 

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/alprazolam-oral-route/side-effects/drg-20061040

 

:thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Benzo = a doctor's way of saying I have no idea how to help you, here you go, get out of my office, without admitting ineptitude and losing face. it's a conspiracy lol

 

And it's pretty convenient that starting someone on one drug can lead to an avalanche of health issues which leads to polydrugging, which can lead to even more health issues, all the while the problems are blamed on "anxiety" or some other nebulous issue that can't be proven by a scientific test.

 

Are there any other professions that can get away with something like this? Imagine if the computer in your car goes bad. You go to your mechanic to have it fixed and instead of replacing the faulty part he splices in a contraption that provides a quick fix. A few weeks later that "quick fix" starts to cause issues with your headlights and turn signals. You go back to the mechanic and he taps another gizmo into the electrical system and your lights work fine for a couple of weeks but pretty soon your lights stop working and now your power windows and locks are on the fritz.

 

Back to the mechanic for more hacks. He creates a perpetual customer and is more than happy to collect $125 per hour every time you have an issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Even Mayo Clinic lists the side effects now. I sure wish I would have had this information years ago:

 

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/alprazolam-oral-route/side-effects/drg-20061040

 

The "Rare" side effects look like just another day on BenzoBuddies.

 

Absolutely!!

 

Whoever made up that list, IMO, doesn't understand benzos...

 

"Check with your doctor immediately if any of the following side effects occur" And what is the doctor going to do except to start you on the road to polydrugging??? It can go on and on and on and on...

 

And I have to agree with FG's analogy about the car with benzos.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Benzo = a doctor's way of saying I have no idea how to help you, here you go, get out of my office, without admitting ineptitude and losing face. it's a conspiracy lol

 

And it's pretty convenient that starting someone on one drug can lead to an avalanche of health issues which leads to polydrugging, which can lead to even more health issues, all the while the problems are blamed on "anxiety" or some other nebulous issue that can't be proven by a scientific test.

 

Are there any other professions that can get away with something like this? Imagine if the computer in your car goes bad. You go to your mechanic to have it fixed and instead of replacing the faulty part he splices in a contraption that provides a quick fix. A few weeks later that "quick fix" starts to cause issues with your headlights and turn signals. You go back to the mechanic and he taps another gizmo into the electrical system and your lights work fine for a couple of weeks but pretty soon your lights stop working and now your power windows and locks are on the fritz.

 

Back to the mechanic for more hacks. He creates a perpetual customer and is more than happy to collect $125 per hour every time you have an issue.

@FG,

Lol, “Medical Technology” at its “best”... Give me an old Traction Engine any day.. Just throw in some “healthy logs”... (organic, not treated pine..)

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...