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Is it true we are the 25%


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I just found a link to a big facebook benzo group from the benzodiazepines information coalition. Its says 75% of people who come off benzos just have flu like symptoms a few weeks. Is that why no doctor will believe this?
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Those who use it max for 2-4 weeks won't have many issues if any. My doctor who wrote a book on the subject told me that they are not sure when the issues start, but he said that from his experience if a patient does 3 months of benzo every day he will experience withdrawal symptoms.

 

 

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Stats don't tell you how many people try get off and when symptoms last more than month docs tell them it's not wd and put them back on....their still on!
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I think it depends on genetics and not necessarily length of use. My neuro told me that and also how you stopped the benzo. I was only 6 weeks use and have had horrific wd, still brutal suffering at 24 months off but i was CTd and reinstated twice and then dragged off on fast taper by a clueless Dr so im kindled.
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Well I took benzos for a month, that's pretty short term, yet I am suffering considerably and no less than many long term users on here. Many long term users can function by now, or never had to stop working, and I've been in torturous nonfunctional hell since day 1. I must be the 0.5%.
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Ptsdmiracle Suffering with what symptoms?. I don't know any long term users that can function or work but know most short term users are working and functioning.
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All symptoms I listed on my sig is still present today.

monopobia agoraphobia

Paranoia

Extreme Dr dp

Cognitive issues with memory loss, short term memory issues, executive function cannot plan, make decisions

No concept of time

Brain fog

Insomnia with short bursts of rem nightmares

Back pain

 

I am completely debilitated with these symptoms which started while I was on benzos and morphed did into full force once I came off.

 

Maybe I am unlucky. Maybe it was my erratic taper. Maybe it's my genetics. Anyhow, I got hit with this and I am definitely worse off than many short term AND long term,

 

Sorry I don't want to hijack the thread.

 

But I don't believe the feedback loop is good with doctors. For example doctor learns in med school that bwd lasts 2 weeks, just avoids seizures. Doctor prescribes benzos for anxiety. Patient takes it for a while, feels "better", comes off and comes to doctor with "anxiety like" symptoms 3 weeks later, is doctor going to believe this is still withdrawal? Nope. It's not consistent with what doctor learned. There's no test to prove it. So it's gotta be the original condition.

 

 

 

 

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PTSD, you are not alone.  There are many cases of people taking benzos for a short term period like yourself and having severe symptoms.  The truth is we don't know why this happens. 
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Ptsdmiracle Doctors know from clinical experience withdrawal can last a long time and they also know these drugs can cause long term or permanent damage but like you said no test to prove it so they say it's the return of the invented illness. It's just a way to cover their butt.
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Ashton manual said wd or severity of wd is not related to dose or terms of use.

 

I'm a proof and saw many other short term users as well. I tried to stop after 5 days use at 2.5mg valium, severe anxiety and insomnia. Ri after 2days, couldn't walk anymore, then tried to cut to half after 4 wks use in total, severe wd. I don't see anyone in the forum is as disabled as I am in many ways.

 

I think it's highly individual.

 

 

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I'm so mad and scared now I was practically cold turkey off by a doctor who is a family friend because I was out of pills. I now found out he doesn't believe in benzo w/d, knows there is an online community of it but says there is no evidence to back it up. Since he doesn't believe it and is my family's friend they don't believe me.  Aston says people heal in 18 months but that is with a slow taper. I know I can't go back on now but its been 10 months of no real windows. Slight lessoning of some symptoms but I still feel like my old self is a distant memory.

 

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Unfortunately, there are no studies as to how many people have problems getting off benzos. It's all speculation, IMO. There are those who have tried and then given up and are still on the benzo. There are those who have gotten off but have committed suicide. There are those who are protracted but hide it from doctors (I'm one of them). I knew one BB member here who was on Ativan for 4 weeks, and it took her over a year to recover.

 

Dr. Lembke of Stanford talked about tolerance and withdrawal. At about 1:58 she talks about the fact that people say 25% have tolerance, but it's not known because it's BEEN ACTIVELY NOT STUDIED, VERY ODDLY.

 

Many of us have been shunned by doctors or made fun of, laughed at, and other ugly remarks made. We've learned to shut our mouths, and since there are very few people to back us up (one doctor, per Drew, called Professor Ashton an "old bag," I believe), we keep quiet, unfortunately causing this terrible scourge to go on and on and on and on and on...

 

I don't blame anyone for keeping quiet. It's a rough world in the medical community, and doctors are often impatient, think too highly of themselves, feel that they're right regardless of what a patient says, and follow a herd mentality. What goes for one doctor in a medical group usually goes for all. Doctors who have the courage to step out of line are at times shunned, IMO.

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Keep your head up Sunlit. 10 months is still a short time compared to others on here. The key here is that you have seen improvement and that's still progress even though it may not seem so.
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Keep your head up Sunlit. 10 months is still a short time compared to others on here. The key here is that you have seen improvement and that's still progress even though it may not seem so.

 

Thanks Zurek. I'm trying.

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I'm so mad and scared now I was practically cold turkey off by a doctor who is a family friend because I was out of pills. I now found out he doesn't believe in benzo w/d, knows there is an online community of it but says there is no evidence to back it up. Since he doesn't believe it and is my family's friend they don't believe me.  Aston says people heal in 18 months but that is with a slow taper. I know I can't go back on now but its been 10 months of no real windows. Slight lessoning of some symptoms but I still feel like my old self is a distant memory.

 

It's all individual. Just keep to a good diet, keep as even keel mentally as you can, exercise if you're able, and try to be calm.

 

It's wonderful that you have a slight lessening of some symptoms. Keep that thought in your mind. I know wd and recovery can be quite scary and that negativity rules the roost, but who knows: You could heal quickly from here on out.

 

Your doctor was utterly clueless, and you've had to pay the price. I'm so, so sorry! Because of the stupid things he said, your family doesn't believe you. They chose to believe a doctor who apparently has not read the newest literature. Look up "Medicating Normal" in the Benzos in the News section. Lapis has put together videos from some of the very savvy doctors, especially Dr. Anna Lembke, from Stanford. She obviously has done her homework and knows what's happening.

 

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I'm not sure I agree with Ashton that long term use does not make it harder.  I am one of the very worst cases and was on them many decades.

 

Hard to believe length of time your body is used to something does not play a role.

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I know of 3 people locally who were on Benzos for 10 years or more who just stopped them, had a few weeks of WD and were then fine.

 

It is so confusing.

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My friend D had a serious Xanax addiction. He claimed to use benzos daily for around 10 years. He would binge on large amounts (over 20mg) and then just scrape by some days from what it sounded like. I asked him if he had any clean time or if his benzo use was constant, persistent, etc and he said he had no clean time. I have a hard time believing him that he didn't have breaks because most people who binge like he did do but I don't know the truth. I guess I just have to take his word because he is doing better than all of us. Like it never happened. He even drinks his brewskies like they are going out of style. He drinks like a frat boy and still parties like a rock star.

 

He also used opioids and amphetamine. Used large amounts of cannabis every day and drank alcohol often while using benzos. After I finished my benzo taper I was stuck on gabapentin 1.8g and phenibut 2g for a long time. I remember right before I started tapering off gabapentin he called me a bitch for not stopping everything cold turkey and remaining on these drugs. I told him I was sick and that I struggle tapering these substances and that cold turkey was not an option for me. He quit benzos cold turkey and recovered after two weeks according to him. Didn't even have a bad withdrawal. He is a burly half Irish and Italian guy who looks like he may have Viking blood or something. Like he would have swung the war hammer in an ancient battle field crushing anyone who was unfortunate to cross his path. My father was born in the region where Sparta is and I don't have any special abilities to come off benzos. Maybe I am average in BB as far as WD. We are weak to the outsider's... it sucks that we are in this situation where we have to make threads like this. Are own family members and friends doubt us. Personally, I take what a lot of people say on the protracted board with a grain of salt because it seems like people just blame their depression and everything on benzos. I do think it is related but some stuff isn't. You can't blame every problem in your life on benzos if you have been off them for 10 years.

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You can't blame every problem in your life on benzos if you have been off them for 10 years.

 

I don't blame "every problem in my life" on benzos but I have been off for 9 years and I am absolutely certain that my core issues are benzo related.

 

Be careful what you say. When I was 8 months off I felt 80% healed. People were quick to point out that this could very well be an illusion. Sure enough, things went south again and aside from a few windows here and there I haven't felt 80% since then.

 

Do not underestimate what these drugs can do to a person. They are neurotoxins, and some people seem to tolerate them better than others. They can cause chemically induced brain damage that can take many, many years to heal from and some symptoms may be permanent. The world's foremost experts on these drugs have stated so.

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You can't blame every problem in your life on benzos if you have been off them for 10 years.

 

I don't blame "every problem in my life" on benzos but I have been off for 9 years and I am absolutely certain that my core issues are benzo related.

 

Be careful what you say. When I was 8 months off I felt 80% healed. People were quick to point out that this could very well be an illusion. Sure enough, things went south again and aside from a few windows here and there I haven't felt 80% since then.

 

Do not underestimate what these drugs can do to a person. They are neurotoxins, and some people seem to tolerate them better than others. They can cause chemically induced brain damage that can take many, many years to heal from and some symptoms may be permanent. The world's foremost experts on these drugs have stated so.

 

Citations?

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Citations?

 

Ashton was pretty clear about the fact that it can take many years to heal and some symptoms may be permanent.

 

https://benzo.org.uk/manual/

 

Some people may choose not to use words like "brain damage" and "neurotoxin" to describe this issue, but when you are almost 10 years off the drug and have to look up today's date every five minutes to get your work done you start to understand what it truly is you are dealing with.

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/01/what-really-call-psychiatric-drugs/

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"They can cause chemically induced brain damage that can take many, many years to heal from and some symptoms may be permanent. The world's foremost experts on these drugs have stated so."

 

Citations?

 

Ashton was pretty clear about the fact that it can take many years to heal and some symptoms may be permanent.

 

https://benzo.org.uk/manual/

 

Some people may choose not to use words like "brain damage" and "neurotoxin" to describe this issue, but when you are almost 10 years off the drug and have to look up today's date every five minutes to get your work done you start to understand what it truly is you are dealing with.

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/01/what-really-call-psychiatric-drugs/

 

A concise & good response FG. Thank you.

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Good article by Breggin. The Ashton Manual link was to the entire manual. Has Ashton updated this excerpt, I am not an Ashton Manual expert by any means:

 

Do benzodiazepines cause structural brain damage? These results have raised the question of whether benzodiazepines can cause structural brain damage. Like alcohol, benzodiazepines are fat soluble and are taken up by the fat-containing (lipid) membranes of brain cells. It has been suggested that their use over many years could cause physical changes such as shrinkage of the cerebral cortex, as has been shown in chronic alcoholics, and that such changes may be only partially reversible after withdrawal. However, despite several computed tomography (CT) scan studies, no signs of brain atrophy have been conclusively demonstrated in therapeutic dose users, and even the results in high dose abusers are inconclusive. It is possible that benzodiazepines can cause subtle changes which are not detected by present methods, but on the available evidence there is no reason to think that any such changes would be permanent.

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FG, I think you will completely heal. I think I will too. Thinking that you won't will not help you get to the finish line any quicker. I get that you are frustrated beyond belief but you need to stop thinking that some people don't heal. It isn't good for you or us to see you say that every day. Some people just take a long time to heal. Based on your history I see no reason why you are going to be stuck like this forever. You need to turn on that epigenetic switch towards that healing path by telling yourself that this will end everyday..... not telling yourself on a daily basis and us on a daily basis that not everyone heals bullshit. It's bullshit! And I'm not going to take a bite out of it! Got it dude! I'm sick of reading it. You're going to heal FG. Just have faith in yourself that you will.
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