Author Topic: Is it true we are the 25%  (Read 1439 times)

[Buddie]

Re: Is it true we are the 25%
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2019, 07:20:30 pm »
You can't blame every problem in your life on benzos if you have been off them for 10 years.

I don't blame "every problem in my life" on benzos but I have been off for 9 years and I am absolutely certain that my core issues are benzo related.

Be careful what you say. When I was 8 months off I felt 80% healed. People were quick to point out that this could very well be an illusion. Sure enough, things went south again and aside from a few windows here and there I haven't felt 80% since then.

Do not underestimate what these drugs can do to a person. They are neurotoxins, and some people seem to tolerate them better than others. They can cause chemically induced brain damage that can take many, many years to heal from and some symptoms may be permanent. The world's foremost experts on these drugs have stated so.
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[Buddie]

Re: Is it true we are the 25%
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2019, 08:09:28 pm »
You can't blame every problem in your life on benzos if you have been off them for 10 years.

I don't blame "every problem in my life" on benzos but I have been off for 9 years and I am absolutely certain that my core issues are benzo related.

Be careful what you say. When I was 8 months off I felt 80% healed. People were quick to point out that this could very well be an illusion. Sure enough, things went south again and aside from a few windows here and there I haven't felt 80% since then.

Do not underestimate what these drugs can do to a person. They are neurotoxins, and some people seem to tolerate them better than others. They can cause chemically induced brain damage that can take many, many years to heal from and some symptoms may be permanent. The world's foremost experts on these drugs have stated so.

Citations?
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Is it true we are the 25%
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2019, 10:25:19 pm »
Citations?

Ashton was pretty clear about the fact that it can take many years to heal and some symptoms may be permanent.

https://benzo.org.uk/manual/

Some people may choose not to use words like "brain damage" and "neurotoxin" to describe this issue, but when you are almost 10 years off the drug and have to look up today's date every five minutes to get your work done you start to understand what it truly is you are dealing with.

https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/01/what-really-call-psychiatric-drugs/
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Is it true we are the 25%
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2019, 11:01:24 pm »
"They can cause chemically induced brain damage that can take many, many years to heal from and some symptoms may be permanent. The world's foremost experts on these drugs have stated so."


Citations?

Ashton was pretty clear about the fact that it can take many years to heal and some symptoms may be permanent.

https://benzo.org.uk/manual/

Some people may choose not to use words like "brain damage" and "neurotoxin" to describe this issue, but when you are almost 10 years off the drug and have to look up today's date every five minutes to get your work done you start to understand what it truly is you are dealing with.

https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/01/what-really-call-psychiatric-drugs/

A concise & good response [...]. Thank you.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Is it true we are the 25%
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2019, 11:41:46 pm »
Good article by Breggin. The Ashton Manual link was to the entire manual. Has Ashton updated this excerpt, I am not an Ashton Manual expert by any means:

Do benzodiazepines cause structural brain damage? These results have raised the question of whether benzodiazepines can cause structural brain damage. Like alcohol, benzodiazepines are fat soluble and are taken up by the fat-containing (lipid) membranes of brain cells. It has been suggested that their use over many years could cause physical changes such as shrinkage of the cerebral cortex, as has been shown in chronic alcoholics, and that such changes may be only partially reversible after withdrawal. However, despite several computed tomography (CT) scan studies, no signs of brain atrophy have been conclusively demonstrated in therapeutic dose users, and even the results in high dose abusers are inconclusive. It is possible that benzodiazepines can cause subtle changes which are not detected by present methods, but on the available evidence there is no reason to think that any such changes would be permanent.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Is it true we are the 25%
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2019, 12:13:53 am »
[...], I think you will completely heal. I think I will too. Thinking that you won't will not help you get to the finish line any quicker. I get that you are frustrated beyond belief but you need to stop thinking that some people don't heal. It isn't good for you or us to see you say that every day. Some people just take a long time to heal. Based on your history I see no reason why you are going to be stuck like this forever. You need to turn on that epigenetic switch towards that healing path by telling yourself that this will end everyday..... not telling yourself on a daily basis and us on a daily basis that not everyone heals bullshit. It's bullshit! And I'm not going to take a bite out of it! Got it dude! I'm sick of reading it. You're going to heal [...]. Just have faith in yourself that you will.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Is it true we are the 25%
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2019, 12:37:52 am »
Good article by Breggin. The Ashton Manual link was to the entire manual. Has Ashton updated this excerpt, I am not an Ashton Manual expert by any means:

https://benzo.org.uk/ashsupp11.htm

Permanent brain damage?

Structural damage. Many long-term benzodiazepine users who have stopped taking the drugs complain of a variety of seemingly irreversible psychological and/or physical symptoms which they attribute to permanent brain damage caused by the drugs. However, the question of whether benzodiazepines cause brain damage is still unsolved. In 1982 Professor Malcolm Lader and colleagues reported the results of a small study using CAT (computerised axial tomography) brain scans in 14 long-term benzodiazepines users compared with control subjects. Two of the benzodiazepine users had definite cortical brain atrophy and there was a borderline abnormality in five others; the rest were normal. In a 1984 study by Professor Lader involving 20 patients, the results were again suggestive but there was no relationship between CAT scan appearances and the duration of benzodiazepine therapy. The study concluded "The clinical significance of the findings is unclear." Subsequent CAT scan studies in 1987, 1993, and 2000 failed to find any consistent abnormalities in long-term benzodiazepine users, and concluded that benzodiazepines do not cause structural brain damage, e.g death of neurones, brain shrinkage or atrophy etc. A later more accurate development in brain scanning, MRI (magnetic resonance imaging), does not appear to have been systematically studied in benzodiazepine users. However MRI, like CAT, only shows structural changes and it is unlikely that the use of this technique would clarify the picture; many still symptomatic long-term ex-benzodiazepine users have had normal MRIs.

Functional damage. It is more likely that any long-term brain changes caused by benzodiazepines are functional rather than structural. In order to show such changes it would be necessary to examine abnormalities of brain activity in long-term benzodiazepine users. Techniques for such studies are available: fMRI (functional MRI) measures regional blood flow; PET (positron emission tomography) and SPECT (single photon emission tomography) measure neurotransmitter and receptor activity; QEEG (quantitative electroencephalography) and MEG (magnetoencephalography) measure regional electrical activity. None of these techniques has been utilised in controlled studies of long-term benzodiazepine users. Cognitive performance could indicate impairments in certain brain areas, but no studies have extended for more than six months. Finally post-mortem studies could show abnormalities in brain receptors, and animal studies could show changes in neuronal gene expression. None of these studies has been undertaken. Nor have there been any studies examining abnormalities in other tissues or organs in long-term benzodiazepine users.

A controlled study of long-term benzodiazepine users using brain function techniques would have to be carefully designed and would involve a large number of age and sex matched subjects, probably over 100 in both control and user groups. In the benzodiazepine group it would have to take into account dose, type of benzodiazepine, duration of use, psychiatric history, symptoms, use of alcohol and other drugs, and a number of other factors. Such a study would be expensive and funding would be difficult to obtain. Drug companies would be unlikely to offer support, and to date 'independent' bodies such as the Medical Research Council, the Wellcome Foundation and the Department of Health have shown little interest. Thus the question of whether benzodiazepines cause brain or other organ damage remains unanswered.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Is it true we are the 25%
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2019, 12:38:32 am »
Good article by Breggin. The Ashton Manual link was to the entire manual. Has Ashton updated this excerpt, I am not an Ashton Manual expert by any means:

Do benzodiazepines cause structural brain damage? These results have raised the question of whether benzodiazepines can cause structural brain damage. Like alcohol, benzodiazepines are fat soluble and are taken up by the fat-containing (lipid) membranes of brain cells. It has been suggested that their use over many years could cause physical changes such as shrinkage of the cerebral cortex, as has been shown in chronic alcoholics, and that such changes may be only partially reversible after withdrawal. However, despite several computed tomography (CT) scan studies, no signs of brain atrophy have been conclusively demonstrated in therapeutic dose users, and even the results in high dose abusers are inconclusive. It is possible that benzodiazepines can cause subtle changes which are not detected by present methods, but on the available evidence there is no reason to think that any such changes would be permanent.

Citations?
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Is it true we are the 25%
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2019, 12:54:25 am »
[...], I think you will completely heal. I think I will too. Thinking that you won't will not help you get to the finish line any quicker. I get that you are frustrated beyond belief but you need to stop thinking that some people don't heal. It isn't good for you or us to see you say that every day. Some people just take a long time to heal. Based on your history I see no reason why you are going to be stuck like this forever. You need to turn on that epigenetic switch towards that healing path by telling yourself that this will end everyday..... not telling yourself on a daily basis and us on a daily basis that not everyone heals bullshit. It's bullshit! And I'm not going to take a bite out of it! Got it dude! I'm sick of reading it. You're going to heal [...]. Just have faith in yourself that you will.

I can't operate on faith. I did that in the early days but all that did was cause me to stagnate. It's much easier to stay in one place when you are in great pain if you keep telling yourself that you will be better in a few weeks or a few months.

Unfortunately however, life waits for no one and some point you have to get real. Acknowledging my predicament and accepting the fact that I might be significantly impaired indefinitely has at least allowed me to start to move forward with my life. If I had kept telling myself I would be healed in a few months I doubt I would have been able to start a business, build a tiny house and office, move back out on my own and work full time to at least provide myself with my basic needs.

When you are in a ton of pain and your brain doesn't operate properly it's really easy to slack off if you tell yourself this will all be over with soon but at some point I was no longer able to keep denying the fact that my progress percentage could only be measured in the low single digits year to year.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Is it true we are the 25%
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2019, 01:06:37 am »
Good article by Breggin. The Ashton Manual link was to the entire manual. Has Ashton updated this excerpt, I am not an Ashton Manual expert by any means:

Do benzodiazepines cause structural brain damage? These results have raised the question of whether benzodiazepines can cause structural brain damage. Like alcohol, benzodiazepines are fat soluble and are taken up by the fat-containing (lipid) membranes of brain cells. It has been suggested that their use over many years could cause physical changes such as shrinkage of the cerebral cortex, as has been shown in chronic alcoholics, and that such changes may be only partially reversible after withdrawal. However, despite several computed tomography (CT) scan studies, no signs of brain atrophy have been conclusively demonstrated in therapeutic dose users, and even the results in high dose abusers are inconclusive.  It is possible that benzodiazepines can cause subtle changes which are not detected by present methods, but on the available evidence there is no reason to think that any such changes would be permanent.

Citations?
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.