Help with Crossover II

Hello Everyone,

I just crossed over to 50MG Librium from .75MG Klonopin.  I was truly sick on the Klonopin and could not go any lower.  I tried to

crossover to Valium and it did not work for me.

 

The first night I took 50MG of Librium I felt WONDERFUL!!  Then the next day I took 25mg in the am and 25mg in the pm.  Right now I am

feeling OK, not wonderful.  I asked the doctor if I could take 25MG three times a day.  She replied that since I was on .75 of Klonopin she does

not want to increase my dose of Librium as it will be more for me to come of of.

 

Here is my main question.  Am I suppose to feel GREAT with the crossover to a longer acting Benz like Valium or Librium?  What have other experienced?

 

Question#2.  Am I suppose to feel great while tapering?

 

Right now I still have anxiety in the AM and do not feel great until around 2:00PM.

 

Any input appreciated.

It could be that the klonopin is beginning to leave your system now, as opposed to the first day when you might have been a little over-medicated when you switched over to Librium. 50mgs of Librium is roughly equivalent to 1mg of K, so that’s a bit more than equal to what you were taking in Klonopin.  I agree with your doc that you may not want to up your dose of Librium further if your goal is to get off this stuff.

 

As to feeling great...that would be ideal, but ‘tolerable’ is generally what we hope for. ‘Great’ comes later. 

 

This is the equivalency chart I use: https://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

I agree with Challis99.

 

It is very likely you experienced an extra dose of benzos because the klonopin was still there. It has a half life of around 30-40 hours so it left your system after that. Staggering your cross can prevent this. It’s a shame you can’t use Valium. Librium is so weak I have seen people on it having a rougher time. But a benzo is a benzo so you can’t escape that. I had great luck with me cross. If I were you I’d hang tight and wait until the Librium is fully in your system. Thus might take up to 10 days. You may feel uncomfortable during this process. It won’t last forever.

Thank you Challis and Benzogirl.

 

Did either of you work while you were going thru your withdrawal?  I get up in the AM

have horrible symptoms.  Then lay around a couple hours waiting for medication to kick in.  Is this how it is suppose to be? 

Or should I go out and get a job for a sense of purpose, be around people and for distraction purposes?

 

Also, I am going thru the worse time of my life right now.  Divorce, lost custody of kids, financial ruin, lost business.  Very stressed out.  This is what got me into this whole mess.  Went to doctor and prescribed 2mg Klonopin per day.  Then put on Xanax. Tolerant to both.

 

What are your thoughts?  Much appreciated.

 

 

Thank you Challis and Benzogirl.

 

Did either of you work while you were going thru your withdrawal?  I get up in the AM

have horrible symptoms.  Then lay around a couple hours waiting for medication to kick in.  Is this how it is suppose to be? 

Or should I go out and get a job for a sense of purpose, be around people and for distraction purposes?

 

Also, I am going thru the worse time of my life right now.  Divorce, lost custody of kids, financial ruin, lost business.  Very stressed out.  This is what got me into this whole mess.  Went to doctor and prescribed 2mg Klonopin per day.  Then put on Xanax. Tolerant to both.

 

What are your thoughts?  Much appreciated.

 

The first year no, I couldn’t even drive, but I was polydrugged with four medications. After I got off three and started my taper, I was highly functional. I wasn’t working but out every day very busy. I only started working more than a year ago because I moved and bought a place and had bills to pay. I was very lucky. I lost a lot too.

I’m so sorry...stress on top of stress.  Not the best time to be also going through benzodiazepine withdrawal, honestly.  Have you decided to get off now because of tolerance?

 

No, I didn’t work, I was already retired. Could not have worked...I was a kindergarten/first grade teacher. No way.

So, looking at your signature, it reminds me of my own use. I was on and off benzodiazepines for mostly sleep-related issues. I had no noticeable problems starting and stopping until after I’d been on Xanax for a few years for trauma-related grief. The withdrawal from that was different.

 

This is just my opinion, but I think you may want to go very slow in withdrawing. For one, you’re under the kind of stress for which  most people are put on benzodiazepines or antidepressants.

 

How long ago did you switch to Librium, just a few days ago? I’m wondering if that is causing the morning symptoms right now.

 

Another question...you’re aware alcohol will make things worse, right? Many people drink because the symptoms go away with alcohol, but the residual effects are pretty rough since both benzodiazepines and alcohol affect the same receptors.

Question. Are you still on Paxil CR? If not how did you taper and how long have you been off it? Paxil can be nasty from my experience.

BenzoGirl and Challis you are both amazing.  Thank You. To answer your questions:

 

Challis

-I decided to get off of bentos because of Tolerance.  The highest I was up to on Xanax was 1.5mg.  I was shaking and sicker than a dog

in the AM due to tolerance.  I did not want to increase my dose and get up to 2mg, 3mg, 4mg etc.  I was very ill. Had no idea what to do

so I went to the hospital. They put in in a 7 day detox.  Good news and bad news, I got off the Xanax.  But then had to reinstate to Klonopin

.75 because the withdrawal was horrible.  Was on that and tried to taper too fast.  Did not work.  Then started building tolerance to Klonopin

and did not want to increase.  Found a doctor who is going to follow Ashton Manual.  Tried Valium, did not work for me.  On Librium now 3 days,

free from Klonopin.  I don't feel great. But as you stated, tolerable.  I know that if I increase the Librium I will feel better but the Doc does not want me to do that.  What are your thoughts Challis.  Tell the doctor to increase my dose of Librium daily and get thru this divorce, custody battle, etc...  then get up to some crazy high dose 2 years from now.  OR, do what the doctor says and and get on an SSRI to control my anxiety?

Any other thoughts?

 

BenzoGirl - yes I am still on Paxil CR.  12.5 MG.  What are your thoughts?  Should I try and taper off this stuff?  Get on another SSRI to control my anxiety?  Also, they have me on Gabepentin to take 2-3 times a day 300MG.  So I and on Librium, PaxilCR and Gabapentin.  ALL this because of the stress I am going thru with the divorce/custody battle. 2 girls and a son I love to death.  It's heartbreaking.  Any input would be greatly appreciated. 

There’s a lot of controversy about ADs and SSRIs. Some people really benefit from the right ones yet react horribly to others and there’s no way to know if one will work or which one. I reacted badly to Celexa yet did well with Lexapro, others have found the opposite to be true. Psych meds are truly a crapshoot. My mother took Prozac for a brief time, maybe six months, found it very helpful and quit with no problems or lingering after effects.  I think using these meds briefly is key if you do go that route. They do affect the brain and not enough is known about them long term.

 

My first go-to would be counseling, if you can find someone you like who relates well to what you’re going through. I’m also a believer in a healthy diet (nothing radical, basically skip the junk food) and exercise for peace of mind.

 

Caffeine will jack anxiety, alcohol will derail you when you’re using or tapering benzodiazepines because they affect the same receptors. 

 

Having also been through the separation/divorce/custody battle merry-go-round years ago, I sympathize with your current situation. If you’re at all open to some wisdom about that, I’d say listen to what your kids want, take the high road in everything to the best of your ability and roll with rather than fight these processes. It will make your life so much easier and your kids’ lives..and everybody’s pocketbooks will be better except the attorneys.  Say only kind things about their mom, it only hurts the kids and yourself if you let yourself vent to them. And yeah, I know it’s hard to bite your tongue but just trust me on this.  Someday you’ll see the wisdom in my words.

 

This will be a tough go for awhile.  You have a lot to deal with. But it’s also a chance for a reset for the rest of your life.  I did it.  You can, too.

I don’t know of any reputable doctor who will put you on two antidepressants at once. This can cause serotonin syndrome which is very dangerous and can be life threatening. I was on Trazodone for sleep only and like just about all antidepressants, it eventually stopped working for me and in fact had the opposite effect. I did a rapid withdrawal off it if you read my signature but then again you don’t like to do that. Lol 😂

 

 

I don’t believe you have given your Librium enough time to work. This may take two weeks. Hang in there and try not to increase your dose. It’s just that much more to get rid of. Here is a link from Mayo Clinic about serotonin syndrome. I don’t trust WebMD because it’s sponsored by Big Pharma.

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/serotonin-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20354758

Hi Benzogirl.  Thank you for the wealth of information.

 

-What are your thoughts of getting off the Paxil CR.  Could this be making things worse?

-I am also on Gabapentin. What are your thoughts on that?

 

Why does it take two weeks for the Librium to work?  Do you think I am suffering some withdrawal from the Klonopin

right now?

 

Thanks for your support.

Hi Benzogirl.  Thank you for the wealth of information.

 

-What are your thoughts of getting off the Paxil CR.  Could this be making things worse?

-I am also on Gabapentin. What are your thoughts on that?

 

Why does it take two weeks for the Librium to work?  Do you think I am suffering some withdrawal from the Klonopin

right now?

 

Thanks for your support.

 

Yawn....tomorrow...

Challis or Benzogirl,

do you have any input on my last questions?  I am trying to figure this out.  Much appreciated.

Hi Benzogirl.  Thank you for the wealth of information.

 

-What are your thoughts of getting off the Paxil CR.  Could this be making things worse?

-I am also on Gabapentin. What are your thoughts on that?

 

Why does it take two weeks for the Librium to work?  Do you think I am suffering some withdrawal from the Klonopin

right now?

 

Thanks for your support.

 

Hi Nomorebenzos2,

 

We recommend only tapering one drug at time, so I'd hold off on making any decisions about a Paxil taper, Professor Ashton has said that having an AD on board isn't necessarily a bad thing to have.

 

I'm not familiar with Librium, just that it has a long half life and can accumulate in the bloodstream after repeated administration, perhaps that's what benzogirl was talking about.

 

I think you might benefit from posting a couple of your questions on the Other Medications board, there are many threads discussing antidepressants, and there is a group in the support area of the forum for Gabapentin tapering, it's located here:  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=84267.0

 

Pamster