[Wi...] Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/21/4595712/gut-feelings-the-future-of-psychiatry-may-be-inside-your-stomach Boston psychiatrist James Greenblatt treats (and cures) disorders such as severe OCD, ADHD, intrusive thoughts, etc. with probiotics -- based on the fact that there are more neurons in the GI tract than anywhere else except the brain. Some excerpts: “...around 90 percent of our cells are actually bacterial, and bacterial genes outnumber human genes by a factor of 99 to 1”. Article links to several scientific studies investigating the role of the gut-brain axis (and the microbiome) in anxiety disorders. “There are beginning to be suggestions that this type of probiotic treatment is worth pursuing. Whether we can use this to improve people’s lives, well, the door is just beginning to open on this.” Interesting anecdotal link: https://howicuredmyhairpulling.wordpress.com/2014/07/23/how-i-cured-my-own-chronic-hair-pulling-trichotillomania-ocd/ Posts by folks who are curing their trichotillomania (OCD/ICD) using probiotics only.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Te...] Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 It's about time they're finally recognizing this!!! I have problems with probiotics, but I cheer on the article. I'll have to read it later, but thank you for this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Wi...] Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 Terry, you're very welcome. I had problems with probiotics, too -- couldn't tolerate any. I did some research and found out that it's most likely that we don't tolerate something called d-lactic acid, in addition to histamine. (Most of us have histamine issues in w/d.) The trick is to try a probiotic that's d-lactate and histamine free. So I found one of the few that fulfills that requirement: Lifted Bifidus Mood Boost. (There's also one by Custom Probiotics, but I think it's more pricey; autistic kiddos have great results with it.) But you have to start low and slow...as in a quarter or less of a capsule every second day. And work your way up to 1 to 2 a day. Then stick to it for at least 2 to 6 months.... I'm trying that now. So far, so good. First one I've been able to tolerate. Wishing you well, Terry! Wildflower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest [Sk...] Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Terry, you're very welcome. I had problems with probiotics, too -- couldn't tolerate any I did some research and found out that it's most likely that we don't tolerate something called d-lactic acid, in addition to histamine. (Most of us have histamine issues in w/d.) The trick is to try a probiotic that's d-lactate and histamine free. So I found one of the few that fulfills that requirement: Lifted Bifidus Mood Boost. (There's also one by Custom Probiotics, but I think it's more pricey; autistic kiddos have great results with it.) But you have to start low and slow...as in a quarter or less of a capsule every second day. And work your way up to 1 to 2 a day. Then stick to it for at least 2 to 6 months.... I'm trying that now. So far, so good. First one I've been able to tolerate. Wishing you well, Terry! Wildflower Agree also. Wildflower probiotics that dont affect histamine until we have at least healed somewhat. Had to research lots and lots and I find a really big difference now for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[bo...] Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 What's the difference in taking probiotics and implementing probiotic yogurt into one's diet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Wi...] Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 Had to research lots and lots and I find a really big difference now for me. Sky, that's so hopeful! Thank you for posting. How long have you been using them for, dosages, results, etc. -- if you don't mind me asking? It would be great if we could all learn more about this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Wi...] Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 What's the difference in taking probiotics and implementing probiotic yogurt into one's diet? Boom, some probiotic yogurt is great, I'm sure, but you'd probably have to research brands, check quality, etc. Yogurts can vary widely and are less 'standardized', in that sense. There's a lot of crap on the market.... High-quality probiotics are usually stronger, many containing 30-billion live cultures or more. And if you know you're sensitive to certain bacterial strains -- ones that induce histamine or d-lactate, for example -- you can pick a probiotic that excludes those strains (until your gut is healed more). In my case, I'm so sensitive at this stage that I can't tolerate yogurt or sauerkraut at all. But I want to improve gut function, so I had to research alternatives (including diet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest [Co...] Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 They actually patented 2 strains of Lactobacillus Helveticus and Bifobacterium Longum that are supposed to help alleviate anxiety and depression in Canada. I remember reading about this years ago, but the product was only available there in a sort of pixie stix form. They have a few that include those strains on amazon now if anyone's interested. Apparently they work synergystically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest [Sk...] Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Had to research lots and lots and I find a really big difference now for me. Sky, that's so hopeful! Thank you for posting. How long have you been using them for, dosages, results, etc. -- if you don't mind me asking? It would be great if we could all learn more about this.... Posted this some time ago plus some other threads on the same thing. Benzos are known to have anti histamine affects, so when we go off them we need to be aware that it might take time for the body to adjust and take care of our histamine naturally as we heal. https://factvsfitness.com/probiotics-histamine-intolerance/ Probiotics for Histamine Intolerance or causing high histamine levels. The list below details exactly which probiotics should be avoided, which have shown to be beneficial probiotics for histamine intolerance and which probiotics are still in question or may benefit certain symptoms only. Species that may need to be avoided: Lactobacillus casei - this species increases both histamine and tyramine Lactobacillus Bulgaricus Streptococcus thermophilus Lactobacillus delbrueckii Lactobacillus helveticus Species that may be beneficial Bifidobacterium infantis Lactobacillus gasseri Bifidobacterium breve Bifidobacterium bifidum Lactobacillus salivarius Lactobacillus rhamnosus (especially GG) – stabilizes mast cells, reduces sensitivity of histamine receptors and allergy-associated receptors while up-regulating anti-inflammatory cells Bifidobacterium longum – assists in histamine degradation. Enhances the expression of genes that create tight junctions, which are molecules that hold intestinal cells together, in order to reduce post-meal inflammatory response and prevent or improve intestinal hyperpermeability (“leaky gut syndrome”) which is a contributor to symptoms of histamine intolerance. Bifidobacterium lactis – helps to break down both histamine and tyramine5. Lactobacillus plantarum – helps to break down several biogenic amines including histamine and tyramine Additional Strains of Importance: Lactobacillus reuteri – although many histamine intolerance lists place this bacterial strain in a histamine producing category, Lactobacillus reuteri is an interesting case because, in addition to raising histamine, it also increases levels of anti-inflammatory cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP)7. Saccharomyces-Boulardii – also helps to regulate digestive issues, especially diarrhea. Lactobacillus lactis – debate exists over whether helpful, harmful or neutral for histamine intolerance8. Lactococcus Lactis – used in producing some high-histamine foods but, other studies have suggested this strain to be histamine-neutral Lactobacillus acidophilus – debate exists over whether helpful, harmful or neutral for histamine intolerance. and another link https://wholenewmom.com/health-concerns/low-histamine-probiotics/ Food for thought We are all different. some other threads here on the forum re this also http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=232203.0 http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=226519.msg2914031#msg2914031 Hope that helps as we are all very different and need to listen to our own bodies as we research and heal. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Wi...] Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 They actually patented 2 strains of Lactobacillus Helveticus and Bifobacterium Longum that are supposed to help alleviate anxiety and depression in Canada. I remember reading about this years ago, but the product was only available there in a sort of pixie stix form. They have a few that include those strains on amazon now if anyone's interested. Apparently they work synergystically. CL, I've heard of that, too. Those are good strains, apparently (if you can tolerate the lacto strains, which I can't yet). Many, many strains have yet to be researched -- in the US, the funding is not readily available, as there's not a lot of profit to be made off probiotics. Let's hope things keep moving in the right direction. B. longum (which is in the Lifted probiotic I'm using) seems to be slowly improving my anxiety and depression baseline, so I'm hopeful. But yeah, jury's out.... (I don't want to create exaggerated or false expectations.) Here's an interesting article by a doctor about how probiotics -- esp. B. longum -- can reverse aging: https://www.healthrevelations.com/2015/12/01/probiotics-reverse-aging-gut/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Wi...] Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 Sky, I completely agree with you about bio-individuality. I realised at the beginning of this journey that if I waited for cutting-edge research to be known/applied in the mainstream, I'd be waiting about 20 years. A doctor I spoke to mentioned that this is, on average, how long it takes for new research findings to filter through into general practice. So...I don't have that kinda patience. So, gently and slowly I started testing on myself. I based my choices on similar research that you posted here. Very useful. I was particularly keen on L. rhamnosus, as I'd read some excellent studies on its anxyolitic potential. But then found I couldn't tolerate any of the Lacto strains (ugh). Same with Saccharomyces-Boulardii (S. boulardii) -- I just hit the wall. It wasn't pretty . Couldn't figure it out. Then noticed that some of my w/d symptoms mimic those of autistic kiddos (glutamate/over-stimulation & digestive stuff). And many of the kids don't tolerate histamine. Or d-lactate. That was key for me. I couldn't tolerate the probiotics designed even for histamine intolerance, as I also could not metabolize d-lactate. And so the only probiotic I could find that addresses both these issues, was the Lifted one -- specific bifidus strains only. And it seems to be working. Thanks for your post, Sky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest [Sk...] Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Wildflower this one might help you. I take it and it addresses the d.lactate issue also see the link below. this is a copy and paste from the link however much more info there. No D-Lactate acidosis Lactobacillus acidophilus can work wonders in the gut by producing lactic acid. But for some, this can become a problem. Lactate, derived from lactic acid, comes in two isomeric forms, d-lactate and l-lactate. Most of us have the capacity to metabolize both forms to some extent and turn it into pyruvic acid. But for various reasons, some people can’t metabolize d-lactate effectively enough to keep up the d-lactate produced by gut bacteria. As a result, the d-lactate can build up in the body and cause d-lactate acidosis.[2] If this is a concern for your clients, you’ll love GutPro® Probiotic Capsules. We’ve kept any probiotic strains associated with d-lactate acidosis out of our formula. Yes, we do include strains like Lactobacillus plantarum, which can produce d-lactate under certain conditions. But here’s what we’ve learned in our extensive research: This strain primarily produces l-lactate. Only under certain conditions does L. plantarum produce d-lactate. Better yet, L. plantarum may even help with acidosis by helping the body maintain a lactate equilibrium. And unlike L. acidophilus, L. plantarum is transient. It doesn’t take up residence in the gut and shift the ecosystem that dramatically. Because of the powerful health benefits associated with this strain, we decided to keep it in the formula. Based on our research and years of customer satisfaction, we’re confident it does not contribute to d-lactate acidosis. (Note, GutPro® Infant has no L. plantarum in its formula) GutPro® Capsules can keep your body’s d-lactate in balance. But that’s not the only way this formula is designed for your patients… No spore-producing bacteria or streptococcus thermophilus For people concerned about spore-producing Bacillus bacteria or Streptococcus thermophilus (e.g. soil bacteria), we’ve made sure to keep these strains out as well. While the research is still ongoing about the impact these strains have on our systems, we believe that quite often, where there’s smoke, there’s fire. We decided to play it safe and keep this formula simple and easy on the most sensitive bodies. But of course, it’s not just the probiotic strains you need to worry about. Most probiotics supplements are only 10% to 20% probiotics and 80% to 90% something else… Have read of this link. https://organic3.com/supplements/probiotics/gutpro-capsules/ Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Wi...] Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 Sky, this is fantastic info, thanks so much! I was aware of l-lactate, but not its connection to L. plantarum -- or a product that aims to address lactate equilibrium. I'm bookmarking this, as I've read that it's best to rotate probiotics (greater variety), if possible. What I'll do is work up on the Lifted (the bifidus strains are the first to colonize the infant gut, as I understand, so to me it makes sense to start there if you're very sick/sensitive -- I see GutPro Infant does not include the L. plantarum). Once I can tolerate 2 capsules a day, I'll try to bring the GutPro product in. And perhaps report back here. Just this morning, I found this study: 'Increased D-Lactic Acid Intestinal Bacteria in Patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome' -- http://iv.iiarjournals.org/content/23/4/621.long This makes sense to me, as I used to suffer from CFS (while poly-drugged). I've now been on modest amounts of the Lifted product for about a week. Had some mild pain and stomach upset, at first, and a slight uptick in insomnia, but nothing like I've experienced on other products. And just this week, for the first time since last December, I've been having a few mornings of considerably less depression.... So we'll see. Thanks again, Sky. This might really be useful for others, too, as I've read several success stories where buddies have seen great results with probiotics. I'm a believer, so I was so disappointed when I couldn't find a high-quality product that I could tolerate.... PS I really like your Lawana Blackwell quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Te...] Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Terry, you're very welcome. I had problems with probiotics, too -- couldn't tolerate any. I did some research and found out that it's most likely that we don't tolerate something called d-lactic acid, in addition to histamine. (Most of us have histamine issues in w/d.) The trick is to try a probiotic that's d-lactate and histamine free. So I found one of the few that fulfills that requirement: Lifted Bifidus Mood Boost. (There's also one by Custom Probiotics, but I think it's more pricey; autistic kiddos have great results with it.) But you have to start low and slow...as in a quarter or less of a capsule every second day. And work your way up to 1 to 2 a day. Then stick to it for at least 2 to 6 months.... I'm trying that now. So far, so good. First one I've been able to tolerate. Wishing you well, Terry! Wildflower Interesting, Wildflower! I'm glad it's working for you. I'll have to look that up! Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest [Sk...] Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Wildflower, your welcome and I do hope others benefit as well from what they read. We all share if and when we can anyway we can in the hope this might help others also. So many opinions for so many symptoms that crop up, in different areas it can be confusing about what is required individually often. I think there are so many areas that need addressing, and there is never just one problem to address, ( thats life I guess) however the most problematic ones we each individually have to face need addressing first ( like the gut issues) I found and then we need to let mother nature plus listening to our own needs to help us heal. I hope you find more healing happening for you soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ca...] Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Thanx Guys.. -Guess I got some reading to do.. I started adding some general?? Pro-biotics a couple of months ago, and so far so good... -Esp a good change in stool consistency/motility.. (sorry Tmi) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[to...] Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Where do you guys find all these different strains to experiment with? This is very interesting stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Wi...] Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 I hope you find more healing happening for you soon. Sky, I wish the same for you! Thanks for the useful posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Wi...] Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 I started adding some general?? Pro-biotics a couple of months ago, and so far so good... -Esp a good change in stool consistency/motility.. (sorry Tmi) Cant, that's good that you can tolerate a general probiotic. As for TMI: if I've learnt one thing, it's that tmi is kind of a non-issue here on BB.... I always enjoy bumping into to you. Hope it goes better and better for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Wi...] Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 Where do you guys find all these different strains to experiment with? This is very interesting stuff. tooktoolong, As far as I know, you can order very specific individual strains from Custom Probiotics, in the States. I'm in Africa, so that makes it more challenging. Been researching and reading for a long time, then try to find close matches for promising strains in products I have access to. Research is still in its infancy, regarding the gut biome. The use of probiotic strains to treat mental imbalances is now called psychobiotics, in some quarters. I'll try to post more findings as I come across them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ma...] Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I have read a lot about the microbiome, and how it develops when you suffer from different diseases or stress. I eat according to chinese medicine seems the old chinese have always known that you just have to eat some things to cure a disease I just wanted to add, the newest result of science is like the oldest knowledge - eat PRE-biotics, not pro-biotics. Probiotics are bacteria and not everyone can tolerate it especially if you already have a sick gut they can make inflammation worse. PREbiotics are the food for the gut bacteria so to speak. If you want to make the good bacteria grow, just feed them. For me probiotics like Indian fleaseed husks work like a benzo sometimes, they do calm me down. Also they stabilize the blood sugar levels, which has a good effect on panic and anxiety.. I find the idea that I am just the feeder of my gut bacteria "pets" very interesting and every day I wonder did I feed them today and if not, I would do that. I want them to be healthy:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Wi...] Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 Marigold, I agree about pre-biotics. They're a big part of the full picture, from what I've learnt. One of the latest ones they're researching is GOS (galacto-oligosaccharides), which seems to have a huge effect on lowering anxiety. This appears to be working for me. (It's 'built into' the probiotic I'm on.) And for sure, on feeding the gut pets.... Almond Butter is great for that; cooked onions, too. Loads of cooked veggies, in general.... Thanks for stopping by, Marigold, and for the great info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ma...] Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Marigold, I agree about pre-biotics! They're a big part of the full picture, from what I've learnt. One of the latest ones they're researching is GOS (galacto-oligosaccharides), which seems to have a huge effect on lowering anxiety. This appears to be working for me. (It's 'built into' the probiotic I'm on.) And for sure, on feeding the gut pets.... Almond Butter is great for that; cooked onions, too. Loads of cooked veggies, in general.... Thanks for stopping by, Marigold, and for the great info. I cannot tolerate GOS in supplements they seem to kind of start detox processes which my body cannot handle yet. But all I eat has an impact on my gut. Of course!! Thats why food was made for us / or we were made to find the right food for us before supermarkets were invented, right? :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Wi...] Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 I understand about your reaction to GOS, Marigold. I know that SIBO folks, especially, struggle with it. I have SIBO and I've had to go super-slow on the probiotic (with GOS), as it does cause me some pathogen die-off. But as long as I take breaks as needed, I am starting to see the kind of improvements I've not seen in about a year now. But everyone is different, and it's very important to go gently and slowly. With the autistic children, we start them often on a pinch of probiotic (about an eighth of a capsule) over the food, just once a week. And it works beautifully, in most cases. We slowly, slowly work up from there.... I absolutely agree with you that food is key. Probiotics are not a silver bullet (nothing is), and I don't believe folks will see all the benefits unless they're eating healthily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ca...] Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I started adding some general?? Pro-biotics a couple of months ago, and so far so good... -Esp a good change in stool consistency/motility.. (sorry Tmi) Cant, that's good that you can tolerate a general probiotic. As for TMI: if I've learnt one thing, it's that tmi is kind of a non-issue here on BB.... I always enjoy bumping into to you. Hope it goes better and better for you. Hey Wild.. -Well everyone really.. Its true, I had to get my diet ontrack first, and it wasnt so easy.. I had to do it slowly.. Once I felt I had “substance” in my GI, not nuclear waste, I could slowly add the “flora”... Some good changes this year for sure... Kinda feel im going to need all the balls in my court for this final stage of tapering my last med... So after I get things established, then the idea is to move on to PRE-Biotics for a while..?? Im kinda feeling organics is going to play a key role, thats what my body is saying yes to... -as opposed to their mass grown counterparts.. Some non organics I cant eat unless I cook the hell out of them... A ways to go yet, but shopping is more fun now.. lots to try instead of bread and pizza... My best to All Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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