Hitting tolerance? Has too fast a switch mean no more reduction for me

I was switched too quickly in 2016 at too low a dose from Clonazepam to Diazepam. After this I reduced by 1 mg over a year using .1mg compounded pharmaceutical medication and after finishing the 1mg dose at 1pm in august 2018 my system crashed in October 2018.  I spent the southern hemisphere summer at home with fatigue anxiety sweats depression and since then have spent my time managing activities around mainly fatigue and sweats.  I had to deal with elderly mothers sickness over the year but now she gets out more than I can.  And I have developed anxiety and panic over the last three months and now poor sleep which I think indicates for me that I could be reaching tolerance.  All my time is spent managing my stress levels and fatigue.  I am also getting more frequent cortisol episodes of crying and desperate thoughts.

I started seeing a new drug and alcohol counsellor in May this year who said from my history I am too sensitive to medication changes for further reduction. With the collapse of my system last year I was in total agreement and have been hoping to settle on the 5 mg dose for good.

My drug history is I took  clonazepam at night  for sleep and developed anxiety after 6-9 days August 2015.  Ended up on equivalent 17.5 mg diazepam.  Cut this down myself fortnightly to 1/4 dose morning and night to May 2016, but came unstuck when cut under 1/4 tablet.  Nurse said to increase by 1/3 (bad advice).  I didn't stabilise at this increased dose.  Detox centre switch August 2016.  Switched 3 days from clonazepm to diazepam to 4mg which should have been equivalent 7.5mg diazepam.  Effectively cold turkeyed and couldn't sleep as diaphragm would deflate when falling asleep. Took 5 months to stabiise on 6mg May 2017. Then started my reduction of my 1 pm dose as per my signature. I posted monthly in progress log.

My new doctor helped me with getting the compounded medication and he is still hopeful I can come off using CBD, (I am dubious about this and don't know how to trawl through all the info on Benzo Buddies about this).  I am now on 1mg 9am and 3pm and 3mg at 9pm making  total of 5mg diazepam,  No change to this since August 2018.  I had been hoping to stabilise on this and forget reductions but I don't think things are going well for me. 

I have a supportive partner who we both agreed no changes after the collapse last year,  I don't think we can get liquid valium here and we have no services specifically for benzo reduction.  My body didn't cope losing the 1 pm dose so any further reductions would have to include keeping the remaining 3 doses.  I'm feeling like there is no way forward for me at the moment.  Any help and support would be so welcome.

I have been on a low dose anti psychotic 20 years and over that time came off an anti depressant twice.  The second time I had to do this over 1 1/2 years as my body required. Thank you

Hi Frankie23,

 

What a terrible time you've had, I'm so sorry for all you've been through, but I'm gratified to know your mother is on the mend.  Oh how I wish you could just stay on a maintenance dose of Valium, wouldn't it be nice if that were possible, instead of it turning on you and causing you pain.

 

You mentioned CBD oil, and I'm dubious as well since I've seen mixed results with people using it for withdrawal symptoms.  There is a group here on the forum which discusses both medical cannabis and cannabis CBD, I don't know if your Dr wanted you to try the cannabis or hemp CBD, but if you have a question about cannabis, you can ask your question here. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=165140.0  If it's hemp, here is a link for you to look at, but again, I'm not sure if the thread is actually talking about hemp or cannabis. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=231802.0

 

I'm not really sure what you're asking for in your post, could you be a bit more specific about the answers you're seeking from us?  We want to help. 

 

Pamster

 

 

Hey Frankie23

 

So If I read your question correctly I would say you arent stuck because of it. You said that you stabilized on the 6 mg eventually which is actually a good sign as it means your body Is able to adjust to dosage reductions after some time. Sadly if we lower or stay on the same dose for a longer time we are bound to hit the tolarance withdrawal at some point. As our body always tries to get achieve some sort of balance which changes dependant on the amount of a certain substance is in our system. A good example is people who take antihistamines as sleep aid at some point it just stops working as our body has upregulated the histamin receptors to achieve this balance it has programmed in it. People then either up their dosage or have to quit and wait for the receptors to downregulate again. Once you stop taking the Antihistamin there are actually more histamin receptors around then before you even started with the Antihistamin medicine so you actually get even worse symtoms as you had without anything.

Tolarance withdrawal means that your receptors actually overupregulated and even with the same dose of valium you will feel either nothing or have some withdrawal symtoms.

I hit tolarance withdrawal on Ativan as well and I either had the option to keep waiting updose or start my taper. I crossed over to diazepam because I had interdose withdrawal with ativan. I then started a rather quick taper. During the reductions I felt bad(there is no taper without any withdrawal symtoms) and I decided to keep reducing If I thought I could take it. Once I was on a pretty low dose like 2.5 mg my brain started to work again and I was able to feel something - humor, sadness but also anger. I was starting to sleep better and continued to have some body sxs. But I got off and I am now trying to heal.

 

All that said I can understand your desperation. It is very disencouraging once you felt better for a bit and then feel the symtoms returning. This times hurt us alot and of course we are scared of them.

I think you are at the point where you have to either hold and hope it will get better again, updose or fully comiting into the taper.

 

All the best

Lemlon

I also hit tolerance withdrawal. There is nothing to do at that point except an orderly taper or take more drugs. This is what you face when you hit tolerance. I chose the taper route and am now almost done. I encourage you to try getting off benzos especially since they no longer help at all.

Thank you so much for responding. I hadn't got any notifications for some reason. Yes I will need to plan a taper. I can get a solution made here. And will need to decide what part of my dose to liquify but keeping all 3 doses going is vital. Also I have discovered my white cell count has been contually dropping the last 10 years and is low now so I am focusing on foods to assist this problem. It may be contributing to the problems I am having.... Maybe grabbing at straws ... but I think researching a good taper plan is paramount at this stage to give me hope.thank you thank you for reaching out.

On the left side of the page, just next to your profile picture you'll see Show new replies to your posts, that will take you to the threads you've commented in. 

 

I'm sorry to hear of your white blood cell blood count, what is your Dr saying about this?

Thanks Pamster. I have an appointment with my doctor and counsellor on Monday morning.  I will be interested to see what they say. But from what I've read this can be a side effect of both the olanzapine and diazepam.  I am only marginally under the low range. But personally I think these ranges are just guidelines. and over the last ten years my energy has waned. I went from active child carer, cleaner, volunteer at op shop, walker and slowly have been dropping these off  until now i can barely manage my last small cleaning job And unable to join my walking group that stroll the beach once a week.I also have no interest in resuming the sewing that I love . This waning of energy seems to reflect the 10 year profile of my reducing white cell count which was nicely in the normal range. I have kept saying to people this year that i felt i have only a small pocket of energy

Maybe the white cell count reflects something happening in other parts of my body that produce energy like my mitochondria?.  l'll keep you posted. The doctor has only seen me every 3 months or so since last year. Meanwhile I've added in spirulena and bone broth and i'm monitoring any improvements in the realms of more interest in sewing, more energy to walk and socialise and reduction in body heat flucuations.

I'm mulling over reduction ideas.

 

Please keep us posted about what your Dr tells you, it's very concerning and your lack of energy doesn't sound good.  I guess we can't blame this symptom on benzo's since you've only taken them since 2015.  I hope you can one day get back to your activities, they sound wonderful, especially the beach walking, this is coming from someone in a land locked state. 

Hi pamster and others.

My doctor not that worried about the low white blood count. Says it could be lead or mercury and gave me a script for Zinc to clear it and said vit c good too.

He thinks I am in tolerance and would like to see me use CBD oil to come off when i am ready..  Take it for a month and if ok use it to withdraw. $360 a month. ( plus $$ for compounding pharmacy).

My original query to everyone was whether by having had a too fast switch at too low dose if I'd stuffed my chances of reducing off as I read somewhere those who had this unfortunate detox experience had difficulty getting off.

Also my counsellor had assessed me as very sensitive to benzos and drugs in general. Im scared to go down a reduction path that may see my brain chemistry even more mucked up so that I may end up on anti depressants or stuff up my relationship. I had so many difficult months this last 15 months when i finished my 1pm dose I dont know if i could manage more withdrawal.

I know I'm only half living at the mo but I am scraping along.

It took me 1 year to go down 1 mg so it could take a long time to get off the 5 mgs completely. My counsellor said she would be happy to see me every day but I don't even know she would be there for that long and with the fatigue once a week is a stretch to visit her!. I had such bad withdrawal fatigue last southern hemisphere summer that I could hardly move for months and had only a few visitors. Today  I got reassurance from the doctor I would get home help if I did reduce if I needed it.

Thank you one person did respond that as I had evened out after the detox experience on 6 mg my brain may still recover again if I did decrease.

I have found it is a lonely road as people who don't know about benzos - family and friends - don't get it. They think I have an idyllic island life  (and it is lovely to be here near the beach and bush). It can be such an isolating experience.Thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

 

Hello Frankie23,

 

I'm relieved to hear the Dr isn't too worried about your white blood count, I hope the zinc and vitamin C help you, is your low white cell count the reason for your lack of energy?

 

I firmly believe you can and will be able to reduce your dose and live happily ever after, as you can see I believe in looking for the positive, so I hope you'll see a bright future for you as well.

 

I'm wondering about the expense and the usefulness of using CBD oil for withdrawal symptoms, I'd suggest you do some research around the forum to get other members perspective on this.  Many have tried with varying degrees of success, here is a link to the board where they have discussed this. Alternative Therapies & Supplements  Does the CBD oil contain THC or is it made from hemp?

 

We also have a support group for folks who have used the oil and more, it's located here:  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=165140.0

 

I know this is a lonely and isolating experience, no one gets this but those who are or have gone through it, so use us for company, okay?

 

Pamster