Phenobarbital Cross Taper?

Tapering down from .5mg of K using 16mg of Ph.

Has anyone used this method to taper from K?

Please share any insight or experience relating to this.

 

Thank you in advance!

Hi PF73,

 

I did use phenobarbital to (quickly) taper Klonopin. I did not enjoy the phenobarbital - it really upset my stomach - however I did initially seem to be able to rapidly reduce my Klonopin dose. However, when I tapered off of phenobarbital I got pretty sick for a couple of weeks. I'm not sure how much was the phenobarbital withdrawal and how much was from the Klonopin withdrawal but those weeks were tough. I should point out that I was on a much higher dose of Klonopin than you are. My Progress Log should still be available on this site.

 

Good Luck!

 

~ Fiskadoro

Thank You. How are doing now? I’m still contemplating the Phenobarbital or Diazepam. I’m really scared and confused, as my wd symptoms are getting worse. I cannot wait any longer.

Klonopin is a fairly long acting benzodiazepine, is there a reason why you don't want to do a direct taper from it?

Not really. I just am afraid. Ashton recommends cross taper w Diazepam. How should I directly taper from klonopin? Which method? I have a scale, scalpel and several months of 1 mg pills. 6 months worth probably.

Just thought it was safer to cross taper?

Fear we understand, it's one of the most powerful symptoms when we become tolerant to or withdraw from these darn drugs!

 

It sounds like you've got all you need to get this done, it's my opinion at least from what I've seen on the forum that most people taper directly from Klonopin, a couple of reasons for that.  One, many US Dr's aren't on board with the Valium cross and won't authorize it, another is as I mentioned, Klonopin is long acting, much better than Xanax and Ativan. 

 

We recommend 5-10% reductions every week to 10 days, but this should be about your symptoms, not a timetable.  Remaining functional is key, so listening to your body is what should drive your process.  I've never tapered so I'm not proficient at the intricacies involved but I've watched the video's, have you seen this one?

 

You might want to check out this support group, they're all Klonopin folks and can give you some practical suggestions.  Klonopin Klub #2

Thank You 🙏 Pamster. My doc is an addiction specialist and has put me on 5m of diazepam 3x for two weeks. The third week the Klonopin wii be gone and just diazepam. I hope this is safe. I’m alone and scared. I was shaking in his office. And now feeling flu like w some anxiety. I hope I’m doing the right thing. After Valium, he then will go with Phenobarbital to taper the diazepam. It sounds like I’m in for 3+ months of tapering? Maybe he’s trying to minimize my symptoms???

 

He also prescribed Mirtazipine for sleeping???

 

Everything really hit me hard today. Like it started officially today. Will I be able to function?

I'm glad to hear you're working with a specialist, it sounds like you have a plan, do you trust him?  I see Ashton says that .5 mgs of Clonazepam is equal to 10 mgs of Diazepam, how much Clonazepam will you be taking with the Valium?  From what I've heard Valium can be very sedating, so be prepared for this. 

 

I don't know anything about Mirtazpine, but we have a support group here on the forum for those who have taken it and are now tapering from it.  It's located here if you'd like to check it out before you start taking it.  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=80102.0

 

I don't know much about Phenobarbitol, I only took about 5 tablets after my cold turkey but I was so sick, I don't know if it caused me any problems.  Its another addictive drug, so you'll need to taper it too.

 

I'm sorry you're so scared, I don't blame you but it's important to trust your process otherwise you'll keep questioning and the fear will keep getting worse.  We'll be here, so keep asking questions.

 

As for functioning, keep a good relationship with your Dr and let him know if you're not doing well, slow things down if it gets to be too much.  Make your cuts smaller, hold longer between cuts, let your body drive this process, not a timetable imposed by your Dr or even Professor Ashton, this is your body, your process, you should own it.

Hi Pamster,

 

I’m taking .25 x 2 of K week 1 (this week) & 5mg x 2 V. (Week 2) 25 x 1, 5mg x 3V.

(Week 3&4)  1 x 10 mg V, 2 x 5 mg V  (No more K)

 

Yes the V is very sedating. Does it continue?  It helps w sleep.

2 mg reductions every week or two.

 

I’m hoping it will leave out in a few days to see what my level of function will be. As I have to go to doctors office every two weeks to be assessed.

 

I’ve heard positive things w the tapering from V. It’s my first time tapering. I just have to accept this isolation as my life for now. And the collateral damage that accompanies. Lots of fog.

 

Thank You for your assistance Pamster:)

Hi PF73,

 

I'm heartened to hear this is your first time tapering, I've seen better success rates for people who only do this once, our bodies don't appreciate putting them through this, so make this your only and last. 

 

I can hear acceptance in your words, this is good because fighting it only leads to more pain and frustration.  I went back to work full time 3 weeks after my cold turkey and although it was difficult, I was grateful I could.  Any type of distraction from our symptoms is the way to get through this.  I know this experience is isolating, but try to fight through it and do your best to engage in life, fake it if you have to, anything is better than sitting in a room knowing nothing but your symptoms. 

 

I'm pleased you'll see your Dr every two weeks, do your best to communicate in calm rational terms to him the extent of your symptoms, in my experience the less drama when speaking to Dr's the better.  They're clinicians and respond to that type of exchange much better.

 

There is a support group for those tapering Valium, they can let you know when you might expect the sedation to lessen. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=96753.0

 

Pamster

Hi Pamster,

 

Your words give me hope, amongst the other horrific accounts I have read on FB. Tomorrow, I will cut my K dose in half (.125 x 2) + 5mg V x 3. I will do this for seven days and then remove the K completely. And continue w the 15mg of V for 2 weeks. I’ve spreadsheeted every and will review w him on 1/8. He seems very open, and is not adamant yet about anything. Not sure how to take this, as he is an addiction specialist.

 

I pray that I can be as strong as you, and maintain strength and some some functionality throughout this. This is by far, the biggest challenge I’ve ever faced.

 

I have been more sedate w the V. I suspect this will diminish as I taper and exclude the K?

 

Thank You for your Support Pamster 🙏

Hello PF73,

 

I'm happy to help and so impressed with your preparation and approach to this process, Professor Ashton often made the point of preparing for this battle, because a battle it is. 

 

If you're in good health, I don't see any any reason why you won't be able to remain functional, just remember that fear is one of our worst symptoms, and it will try to hold you back from doing what you need to do, so recognize it for what it is, a symptom you can push through.

 

From what I've read around the forum, your body will become accustomed to the Valium and it will be less sedating, but watch out for depression, I've seen it do that.  But, this is just another symptom, it's not you.

 

Good luck and please keep checking in.

 

Pamster

Hello PF73,

 

I'm happy to help and so impressed with your preparation and approach to this process, Professor Ashton often made the point of preparing for this battle, because a battle it is. 

 

If you're in good health, I don't see any any reason why you won't be able to remain functional, just remember that fear is one of our worst symptoms, and it will try to hold you back from doing what you need to do, so recognize it for what it is, a symptom you can push through.

 

From what I've read around the forum, your body will become accustomed to the Valium and it will be less sedating, but watch out for depression, I've seen it do that.  But, this is just another symptom, it's not you.

 

Good luck and please keep checking in.

 

Pamster

 

Hi Pamster,

 

I wanted to update you. I’m at 10mg V. (5mg x 2). I will be dropping to 9mg on the 18th. I’m a little anxious, especially in public settings. I’m taking 25mg of Trazadone for sleep. Sleeping has always been an issue for me, so I suspect I’ll be taking something safe, even after my taper. I’m going at 1mg every 3-4 weeks, until I get bad symptoms. I occasionally feel a little weird in the evening, when it’s quiet. I’m somewhat isolating, unless I have a planned activity with someone. I try to distract with music often. I definitely don’t feel like myself, but I’m trying to just push through and live the best I can throughout this process. I feel a lot better getting of the K, so I should be grateful. I almost feel like I ‘traded’ symptoms when I crossed over.

 

I don’t know what the future holds. That’s my biggest fear. I just want to eliminate this drug from my system. Thank You Pamster for reading this. As always your input and support is highly appreciated.

 

Sincerely,

 

PF73

Hi PF73,

 

I did use phenobarbital to (quickly) taper Klonopin. I did not enjoy the phenobarbital - it really upset my stomach - however I did initially seem to be able to rapidly reduce my Klonopin dose. However, when I tapered off of phenobarbital I got pretty sick for a couple of weeks. I'm not sure how much was the phenobarbital withdrawal and how much was from the Klonopin withdrawal but those weeks were tough. I should point out that I was on a much higher dose of Klonopin than you are. My Progress Log should still be available on this site.

 

Good Luck!

 

~ Fiskadoro

 

Thanks again for your reply. You were able to taper fairly rapid. That’s amazing 🙏. I decided to go with Diazepam. Currently on 10mg, but with less symptoms than the Clonazepam. I’ll be at 9mg next week. This is my first taper, so I’m hoping I’ll have minimal issues. My doctor has also mental the possibility of using the phenobarbital if necessary to taper from the Diazepam, when I get to 2mg or less of Diazepam. Any idea why this would be

advantageous?

 

Thanks,

 

PF73

Personally I'd hate to see you go on another addictive drug so close to the finish line, it doesn't make sense to me.  It's good to see you've completely crossed to the Valium.