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10 months off and I still miss my deep sleep. I sleep but its not the sleep that refreshes the mind. I guess benzos destroys the brain and now I rarely get that deeps sleep.

 

One can feel refresh after getting 10mins of deep sleep and one finds sleepy even after sleeping whole night and not getting that deep sleep.

 

I'm usually able to sleep 5-6 hours but I still feel I need more sleep because I cannot get that deep sleep. My mind is always running. Need a power button to shut it down.

 

Whats the relation with deep sleep?

Has it returned for most of you?

 

 

 

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Exactly my scenario. I get the "hours" but I never feel rested. My brain is always running. Even in sleep which is only dream sleep never deep. I'm 8 months off.
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10 months off and I still miss my deep sleep. I sleep but its not the sleep that refreshes the mind. I guess benzos destroys the brain and now I rarely get that deeps sleep.

 

One can feel refresh after getting 10mins of deep sleep and one finds sleepy even after sleeping whole night and not getting that deep sleep.

 

I'm usually able to sleep 5-6 hours but I still feel I need more sleep because I cannot get that deep sleep. My mind is always running. Need a power button to shut it down.

 

Whats the relation with deep sleep?

Has it returned for most of you?

I can definitely empathize.  Deep refreshing restorative sleep still eludes me also. :-(
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See now reading this scares the jeasus out of me as I am on valis for a month , no deep sleep for 8 months after that little use ? Da faq?  Did you try valerian root , melatonin . Or even weed or kratom? I manage to sleep but not dreem , and my eyes just open in the morning , I don't feel tired at all, like I did not sleep , but I feel refreshed ... So idk how to perceive that . Also currently rolling my nightly j. Didn't smoke for a good few days so I think that might do it tonight :3 also I was in ER after a panic attack that I could not breath (it was self induced ,I did have my Vali that day, but yeah...) , spent a good few hours there , took my blood 2 times , hooked up to a monitor , 2 EKGs done and the next day I slept like a fucking baby with no Valium at all , tired all day slept 3 times had good dreams idk how to perceive that also . Maybe we need Abit of stress in out life , but being assured by machines that we are fine is a saver ... So I'm getting a smart watch to monitor my vitals ,it will gelive me a piece of mind , and will track my sleep so I know if I was in rem and deep sleep :D
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  • 1 month later...
No deep sleep for me either after 15 months off and only 8 weeks use. I can’t even perceive the sleep I get. That or it’s constant dreaming and even then it feels more like thoughts than dreams.
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I am not sure how any of you would know if you get deep sleep or not?  I didn't think I was getting any either, but a sleep study proved otherwise.  It takes a long time for some for sleep to feel "refreshing" again, even with deep sleep.  It comes back with a lot of REM rebound as you know.  I always liked dreaming as I knew I was getting REM sleep.  Your body will get the type of sleep it needs at this point in your recovery.  Be grateful for any type of sleep you get.  The deep "refreshing" sleep will return.  I was a 6 month user and it did for me, but not until about 24 months off. 
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Story of my life. Nightmares every night and wake up exhausted. The handful of times I achieved deep sleep I felt like a different person. There’s no question that I’m not getting deep sleep.
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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Any sleep is better than no sleep.  I had insomnia for years.  Benzos never really give you deep sleep anyway.  It disrupts the REM.  May as well get off the meds, and eventually return to REM.  I like dreaming.  I never dreamt much on the meds..  Titrating down and the dreams are back.  This feels positive to me.  The best REM occurs between 11 - 1.  If you can catch that wave

, you’ll feel more rested.  As well, you will not get the second awake period that occurs if awake after  10 or 11.  For me that means in bed by 9.  I’m a bit of a sleep nerd because I truly had profound insomnia and believed nothing could help.  Well, the meds sure did not.  I know insomnia can heal.  There is CBT for insomnia, too.  Sweet dreams and I hope everyone heals well.

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After many months of very bad insomnia during my taper, I started to sleep each day, little by little, a bit better. Now I am on 6 hours every day.

But surprise: once in a while I can have a deep sound, very profound of 7/8 hours of sleeping. This is very recent, and it makes me so very happy the next morning.

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Rodolfo68,

 

Great news!  Happy for you.  Time is the healer.  REM sleep is the most refreshing form of sleep with deep sleep a very close 2nd.  :thumbsup:

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For many, getting sleep doesn't automatically make other symptoms go away or automatically make you feel "refreshed?"  I felt like total crap many times after sleep started coming back.  It started to feel pre-Benzo on a consistent basis about a year after I started sleeping.  I am 3.5 years off and I still get some nights where I sleep well but don't feel refreshed...not a lot but maybe one time per week and sometimes that is after getting 8 or 9 hours of sleep!

 

Sometimes you can wake up in the middle of a sleep cycle and that can make you feel groggy?

 

How long has it been since sleep returned and how many hours do you average per night?

 

 

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I’m pretty sure REM is the least refreshing for the body and brain, why? Because it’s the closest type of sleep stage to being awake. That’s why it’s so easy to have frequent awakenings and feel not rested.
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For many, getting sleep doesn't automatically make other symptoms go away or automatically make you feel "refreshed?"  I felt like total crap many times after sleep started coming back.  It started to feel pre-Benzo on a consistent basis about a year after I started sleeping.  I am 3.5 years off and I still get some nights where I sleep well but don't feel refreshed...not a lot but maybe one time per week and sometimes that is after getting 8 or 9 hours of sleep!

 

Sometimes you can wake up in the middle of a sleep cycle and that can make you feel groggy?

 

How long has it been since sleep returned and how many hours do you average per night?

 

No, if I wake up during a sleep cycle, I’m up and won’t be able to wind down for around an hour. By this I mean an awakening at around 3 or 4 am. I think it’s a cortisol surge. I also have broken sleep where it feels like I’m neither asleep or awake.

 

I haven’t had a good tired and groggy morning in a long time. When I feel that way, it’s only during a window. I’ve had maybe 12 days of window in 2 years. Every other morning, I’m wide awake when I wake up, but I feel exhausted and like I’m dying.

 

I average 5-6 hours per night and it always feels like zero.

 

 

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I’m pretty sure REM is the least refreshing for the body and brain, why? Because it’s the closest type of sleep stage to being awake. That’s why it’s so easy to have frequent awakenings and feel not rested.

 

Many on the Insomnia Forum complain that when sleep starts to return it is all "dreams" or REM sleep and somehow that is bad.  According to the author of this article:  https://www.soundsleephealth.com/blog/what-stage-of-sleep-is-most-important-nrem-vs-rem-sleep.html  REM sleep is the most important stage of sleep with DEEP SLEEP a very close second.

 

Here's quick overview of the article.  Click on the link above or below to read the whole thing.

 

For a quick review of the four stages of sleep:

 

Stage 1 (N1): This is the lightest sleep, lasting as little as five minutes, and the easiest from which to pop back awake. It begins the process of sleeping.

 

Stage 2 (N2): This light sleep is also fairly easy to be awoken from, but it is by far the single longest-lasting phase of sleep. This stage prepares the body for deep sleep by slowing metabolic processes.

 

Stage 3 (N3; formerly N3 and N4): This is deep sleep, during which the body performs maintenance and repair all the way down to the cellular level. This is the only stage of sleep that is “refreshing,” in that it erases the cumulative sleepiness collected during a normal day of waking activities.

 

Stage 5: REM sleep is the only sleep stage in which we dream. This type of sleep is essential for learning, retaining, and editing our memories. Lack of this stage of sleep leads to physical and mental hardships, and could contribute to an early death.

 

Stages 1 and 2 are light sleeps, and do little to refresh or repair our bodies and minds. Stage 3 is where the powerful HGH hormone is triggered, sending a wave of rejuvenating cellular work throughout the body. But all of this would be for nothing if the brain itself were to become psychologically damaged by the lack of Stage 5 REM sleep.

 

And the winner is …

 

It is a very close call between Stage 3 deep sleep and Stage 5 REM sleep. Deep sleep is different from REM sleep in that deep sleep is geared towards physical maintenance, while REM sleep takes care of mental maintenance.

 

However, since even a physically perfect human body would be of no use if its brain has been driven insane by a lack of REM sleep. . .

 

Stage 5 REM sleep is hereby crowned the winner of this contest!

 

Source:  https://www.soundsleephealth.com/blog/what-stage-of-sleep-is-most-important-nrem-vs-rem-sleep.html

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For many, getting sleep doesn't automatically make other symptoms go away or automatically make you feel "refreshed?"  I felt like total crap many times after sleep started coming back.  It started to feel pre-Benzo on a consistent basis about a year after I started sleeping.  I am 3.5 years off and I still get some nights where I sleep well but don't feel refreshed...not a lot but maybe one time per week and sometimes that is after getting 8 or 9 hours of sleep!

 

Sometimes you can wake up in the middle of a sleep cycle and that can make you feel groggy?

 

How long has it been since sleep returned and how many hours do you average per night?

 

No, if I wake up during a sleep cycle, I’m up and won’t be able to wind down for around an hour. By this I mean an awakening at around 3 or 4 am. I think it’s a cortisol surge. I also have broken sleep where it feels like I’m neither asleep or awake.

 

I haven’t had a good tired and groggy morning in a long time. When I feel that way, it’s only during a window. I’ve had maybe 12 days of window in 2 years. Every other morning, I’m wide awake when I wake up, but I feel exhausted and like I’m dying.

 

I average 5-6 hours per night and it always feels like zero.

 

Sorry you are getting 5-6 hours per night and it still feels like zero.  I have 2 thoughts.  1) have you been checked for chronic fatigue syndrome? Not sure how they diagnose that, but some others on this forum have it.  2) have you had a sleep study done?  I have a friend that would sleep a solid 8 hours every night and still was very tired during the day.  He had a sleep study done and found he stopped breathing about 80 times per hour.  After getting a CPAP device, he still sleeps the 8 hours but feels very refreshed and doesn't get tired during the day like he did before.

 

Every few months I get a poor night of sleep and it feels like I am "wired" just like back in the "bad old days" of WD/Recovery.  I don't feel tired or sleepy.  That was the norm the first 9 months after I jumped CT.  My final thought is this is still WD related because of your past history?   

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Thanks for your help, ThEwAy. I think it’s benzos, honestly, but maybe some apnea too. I’m scheduled for a sleep study in a couple weeks. My wife has recorded me snoring and having difficulty breathing, but that’s only when I’m on my back. I sleep on my stomach, but apparently you can still have apnea as a stomach sleeper. Who knows.... I could have some adrenal issues mixed in there too since my cortisol texted really high and I workout way harder than I should. I don’t know, man. Hoping it ends soon. That last window was amazing. Can’t wait to feel like that all the time.
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