Who here had an exercise induced set back?

[[Buddie]]

[...],

There is no research I could find.  That does not mean it doesn't exist, but I could not find it.

There are some anecdotes about coffee and ginkgo.  A few benzo damaged people believe they reverse their damage by increasing glutamate with coffee and ginkgo.  No papers, but I remember reading posts.  Certainly not gold standard science.

But.   In the lithium thread, the visual guide says it will calm you down by slowing release of Ca2+ from the NMDA pore, but down regulate NMDA.  I dug deeper and read the references, and in the reference for the downregulation, the paper said it does that by holding glutamate in the synapse for a bit longer than normal.

That, to me, sounds like what should happen when we exercise.  But I have zero proof.

I do remember reading about a guy who claims he caused a set back by drinking too much coffee.  "A guy frank too much coffee."  "I cured myself with ginkgo."  I HATE basing anything on, "I remember reading about a guy," what we in science call "n=1" experiments.  That was the main reason I started this thread.  If dozens of people popped up saying I was fine for a year, I started training, and everything went to hell." I would start investigating their stories.

So far, it looks like [...] is the only one.  Everyone else seems to have had another factor.  PS That does not mean I do not believe [...]!  If I have learned one thing, it is that anything is possible in anybody because there are sooooooooooooo many variables.  I still believe we have a common illness, and because we have a common illness, common treatments are possible.

Hope that helped.

My wave is almost broken.  I will hopefully be fine in a few days, and when I am, I will resume light exercise.

[...]

[[Buddie]]

Rancom I think it's great that you opened this thread. We can keep reporting the correlation between our workouts and our symptoms. So here I go. Friday I did workout upper body, no legs which are really bad for my sxs. Saturday and today many sxs as usual because I live in an almost permanent wave, but worse. No workout yesterday and today. I have been eating like a PIG. I found this cycle : workout ramps sxs, next day or two eat like pig. Finally feel better, workout three days a week then again bad sxs revving up and eat like piggy. At least I'm getting stronger and I'm in a healthy weight but I don't need more weight so these hunger pangs are not so great. Can anyone relate?

[[Buddie]]

[...],

I do not think would be productive to post a training/reaction log, except in the "big pictrure," which I think would be VERY productive.  Like "I have been weight training, pushing it a little for 'x' weeks or months and I feel . . . "  That would be fantastic!

It is VERY interesting to me that exercise causes a rev up in your symptoms, but eating does not.  To me, exercise will cause a revving that can last last an hour two.  The day ENDS when I have my first calorie, so I eat one meal at 10 pm after my Remeron kicks in.  I do not think I could eat at all if I did not take Remeron, that is how bad eating revs me up, and not just in my gastro.  The act of eating causes a massive glutamate and histamine dump.  Just THINKING about eating used to rev me up as my gastric juices got flowing.  I have trained myself not to think about eating, and even when I am actually eating to minimize the impact. 

I am almost afraid to type this because it was a really bad idea, but I did not know any better at the time.
 In my last "recovery," when I was having a bad day, I would have 6 oz of hard alcohol before dinner.  That was the only thing at the time that would stop my gastro from dumping glutamate and histamine on me and causing gastric distress and panic.

If your life is a permanent wave, you may want to look at what and when you are eating.  Dietary sources of glutamate and histamine liberators, and the act of eating are my biggest triggers by far.  And when I am exercising, it is harder to "not eat," as you said it makes you hungry, but the quality of my days are better.  But I think it is an A then B.  The quality of my days are better, SO I am able to exercise, not I forced myself to exercise on a bad day and it got better.

The legs thing makes total sense.  In a healthy proportioned person, legs are over 60% of his muscle mass.  If you think about it, legs are the only muscle group you can train that can make you out of breath, cause aerobic respiration.  You can do bicep curls until your arms fall off and never get out of breath.  The valsalva effect, (breath holing technique)  you might use to get the last rep does not count as out of breath.

Maybe we should start a thread on diet and eating?

[...]

[[Buddie]]

Hi Rancom! I'm self employed working full time, manage a rented apartment besides my teaching job, raise a teenager with no help, no child support, workout, clean my house and deal with withdrawal. I am not going to bother about eating this or that. If it means slowing down my recovery then so be it. I usually eat very healthy but I take decaf, some sugar and if one day I want a croissant with my coffee I'll absolutely eat it. But thanks for trying 

[[Buddie]]

[...],

If you are doing all of that, and eating croissants, you are my hero.  I want to be you.  I only meant IF you were noticing major upticks, look at your diet.  I promise you I mean't no offense, and I do not think you can "slow down your recovery" with food, unless you consider alcohol food.  I just meant to avoid upticks in issues.

Just like the exercise, I think if you can eat food, it revs you a bit but you can take it, you are helping yourself.  If you van eat anything and don;t feel much at all, you are well on your way to wellness.

Please, I promise you I was only looking at ways that might ease your pain, no criticism at all, not even constructive.

[...]

[[Buddie]]

Rancom I know you meant no offense and I never felt offended by you! I'm doing all that but after my crash last summer I had to updose and I've been holding four months. Will probably hold for one whole year. I just have to be functional. There's no one to do all this for me. I thank God that my updose and hold is keeping me functional in spite of feeling anxiety and fear all day as if I was plugged to the electric current. However, can you believe that after eating too much yesterday, croissant included, last night I slept eight hours for the first time in months? Weird. Maybe it's some sort of semi window. Today I hope I gather strength to do a leg workout. I'll inform.

[[Buddie]]

I haven't even been able to exercise the way I'd like to, especially with using weight-resistance exercises and stretching. About the only thing I can do is walk.

The first thing I thought of was using coffee as a setting-off point because I could better control that. I have still not been able to drink coffee every day, though gradually it's getting better. Last week I drank too many days in a row and started feeling like I'd taken LSD or something. A very uncomfortable feeling in the head, and pushing it, I knew, would NOT be good. I had to quit for a few days.

It's a very delicate dance we have to do around exercise and drinking coffee, for those who are very sensitive. And I've kindled because of dropping a number of bp pills too fast.

When the terrible feelings start coming up, it's best to lay back for a bit on the exercise. See if you can start it up again within a few days. If not, wait a little longer. You may not have to quit for that long of a period of time IF you heed the warning signals. I believe that if you don't heed them and continue to go full-bore, the longer it will take to recuperate.

For me it's been starting and stopping, over and over again. The time between stopping and starting up again has been shorter as I've gone along. But it's taking a hell of a long time. I just want my body to be able to take stress again without going berserk.

[[Buddie]]

What sx fo you guys have when you excercise?

[[Buddie]]

I haven't even been able to exercise the way I'd like to, especially with using weight-resistance exercises and stretching. About the only thing I can do is walk.

The first thing I thought of was using coffee as a setting-off point because I could better control that. I have still not been able to drink coffee every day, though gradually it's getting better. Last week I drank too many days in a row and started feeling like I'd taken LSD or something. A very uncomfortable feeling in the head, and pushing it, I knew, would NOT be good. I had to quit for a few days.

It's a very delicate dance we have to do around exercise and drinking coffee, for those who are very sensitive. And I've kindled because of dropping a number of bp pills too fast.

When the terrible feelings start coming up, it's best to lay back for a bit on the exercise. See if you can start it up again within a few days. If not, wait a little longer. You may not have to quit for that long of a period of time IF you heed the warning signals. I believe that if you don't heed them and continue to go full-bore, the longer it will take to recuperate.

For me it's been starting and stopping, over and over again. The time between stopping and starting up again has been shorter as I've gone along. But it's taking a hell of a long time. I just want my body to be able to take stress again without going berserk.

[...] I think you're right about the exercise. I was really feeling much worse and I'm taking a break from exercising until my brain tells me it's ok to try again. I do walk every day though. Walking kept me alive when I crashed last summer. Thank God I can walk. I agree what you say about exercise but are you sure you want to drink coffee in withdrawal? I take decaf, but coffee? Wow, you like to walk on the wild side 

[[Buddie]]

[...], I'm just incredibly stubborn and impulsive. I used to drink coffee, no problem, before benzos every day. I refuse to back down on this. I'm stubborn as a mule!! Yes, it's been perilous, and my CNS has gone ballistic plenty of times. But luckily I've backed off the coffee before hitting the critical point-of-no-return in terms of being set back for weeks or months. The good news is that I'm able to shorten the time between not drinking and drinking. It's taken plenty of time and persistence. After I'm able to withstand coffee, my next step is to start exercising with weights and do yoga. I'm not sure if the coffee drinking will help this. Time will tell.