Mesenchymal Stem Cells!

I've tried to start discussion on these boards a couple different times regarding mesenchymal stem/stromal cells. Mostly to no avail. However, another user suggested I try to start a thread in the 'chewing the fat' section, as it may get more attention here. So... here I am.

 

I've been doing a lot of research on mesenchymal cells for the past few months and it has me quite excited about their potential to help us. My interest initially peaked after seeing Jocelyn Pederson (from the youtube channel Benzo Brains) mention on her facebook that she was traveling to Mexico to receive stem cell treatments to combat her benzo-induced neuralgia. Not only has she stated on multiple occasions that it was really helping her pain, but she responded to someone's comment and said, 'she feels healed' with stem cells...

 

This started me on an internet quest that has lead me to pretty good understanding of how mesenchymal cells work and what they work for...... Now, before I discuss these things, I will mention now - I am not a doctor or a scientist. Just a dude who reads a lot. I am not advocating that anyone fly to Mexico and go to the first clinic you see, I am simply trying to start a positive, intellectual discussion and discourse on the potential of mesenchymal stem cells. Nothing more. Please note the 'POSITIVE' there... If you are negative and pessimistic or opposed to unconventional therapies, I respect and understand, but please post elsewhere. Let's keep it upbeat and inquisitive! ...Let's keep it scientific and rational.

 

So. The science. Mesenchymal stem cells (or stromal cells more accurately) are most successfully used as IV treatments. They are attracted to inflammation and damage in the body. They travel to these sites through the blood stream and once they arrive, they send out natural healing signals (trophic factors, cytokines, exosomes, etc) to tell the body to repair the damage. They're different from the normal perception of 'stem cells' in that they don't differentiate into other cells; they just tell the body to heal as it did when it was an infant (our body has MUCH greater levels of MSCs in infancy that shrink over time).

 

How does this apply to us? ...Well, even more exciting than the science I have read about MSCs, are the countless positive accounts and studies that are all over the internet. The more I read these, the more I feel like the symptoms that are successfully addressed by MSCs line up a lot with our own...dysautonomia and autonomic nervous system dysfunction, fibromyalgia, nerve pain and nerve damage, inflammation and immune system dysfunction, mitochondria dysfunction, brain injuries and brain diseases like MS and dementia, stomach issues, basic brain fog, chronic fatigue, etc etc.

 

I joined a facebook group called 'Stem Cells 101' where I a have read countless first hand accounts of amazing successes in all the above areas (I encourage you to join for yourself if you'd like to check them out). But, on top of that, there is the peer reviewed publications that indicate similar success and potential. I posted these on another thread, but will post them here too.

 

Inflammation & Immune System Modulation -

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28157686

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6022321/

 

Mitochondrial Dysfunction -

https://translational-medicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12967-019-1893-4

 

Nerve Repair and pain -

I'm attaching an article here but this is just one of many. Honestly, from the research I have done, nerve pain and damage may be one of the things that I am most confident and certain that MSCs would address. I've read a lot of articles, sure, but the accounts of this are what make me so convinced. Nerve pain seems to vanish within days after an IV of MSC. Tons of accounts addressing neuropathy and neuralgia on the FB page IO mentioned. Some youtube video accounts too. There also appears to be lots of success with fibromyalgia. Which seems to bare similarities to some of our pain, imo. And again - Jocelyn Pederson said stem cells have addressed her benzo-related nueralgia.

https://thejns.org/focus/view/journals/neurosurg-focus/35/3/article-pE11.xml

 

Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction/Dysautonomia -

'MSC therapy has been successfully used to treat patients who suffer from dysautonomia by managing known autoimmune factors and inhibiting the inflammatory cells in the central nervous system called microglia.'

https://medium.com/@MarkJHolterman/dysautonomia-and-mesenchymal-stem-cell-therapy-48cc2299320b

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5346911/

 

Brain injuries and diseases -

Again, some exciting accounts and testimonials in online groups, forums, and youtube videos.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5316525/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6208094/

https://www.mdedge.com/multiplesclerosishub/article/108603/multiple-sclerosis/evidence-builds-mesenchymal-stem-cell-therapy

 

 

This one is a bit different but has an intriguing little excerpt - it talks about differentiating stem cells into neural cells and transplanting them. But the interesting thing is this quote '"Many in the field feel that successful cell transplants would be impossible because it would require rebuilding the circuitry. But what we've shown is that the GABA neurons can remake the circuitry and produce the right neurotransmitter." ....Basically, the neurons (from stem cells) that were transplanted healed the circuitry and neurotransmitters on their own.... The article is about Huntington's Disease and again, is a different method of transplantation, but I just like the idea that cells, if available is sufficient numbers in the body, can 'remake circuitry' and 'produce right transmitters' on their own.....

https://eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-03/uow-sch031412.php

 

Trophic Factors -

i.e. how the MSCs heal. They target inflammation in the body and then release bioactive trophic factors that stimulate neighboring parenchymal cells to start repairing damaged tissues. Trophic factors also modulate the local immune system, enhance angiogenesis, prevent cell apoptosis, stimulate survival, proliferation, and differentiation of resident tissue specific cells, produce extracellular vesicles and membrane nanotubes - which can both connect different cells and transfer a variety of trophic factors varying from proteins to mRNAs and miRNAs.

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/ten.teb.2016.0365

 

Again, we already have one positive benzo-related account from Jocelyn Pederson. That's enough to put it on the radar I'd say.

That plus all of the above I mentioned, and I think it's something we really need to look into and consider. Mesenchymal stem cells have been getting buzz and support lately by some big names too. Mel Gibson was on Joe Rogan recently stating that mesenchymal stem cells saved his dad's life. He went to a renown MSC clinic in Panama. There is clinic in Columbia that many professional athletes seem to be frequenting for sports-related TBIs and other injuries called Bioxcellerator. They post videos on their youtube all the time with big names (and unknowns) talking about incredible healing. Sometimes overnight or immediately (which I've seen in forums as well for nerve pain or issues). The clinic that most people frequent in the aforementioned Facebook group is in Mexico and is called Dream Body. Seems to be the most affordable but has the same quality and reputation that the Panama one has. It's in a gated beach community in a safe town and it gets its stem cells from a clinic that is scientifically advised by the Dr. who discovered mesenchymal cells.

 

These clinics are not located in the USA because they isolate and culture umbilical cord MSCs and that is not legal in the states. But it is the most powerful way to use them, bar none. Regardless, they are either world renowned, or quickly building great respect and reputation based on their incredible, repeatable results. These clinics, though out of country, do not give me concern as to the quality of their product at all. After doing ample research, that it not a question to me at all. The question is, could they work for us?

 

I think there is reason to believe they can. I think they have more than proven their capacity to target issues that look a lot like our own. They seem to be amazing healers and normalizers of various biological and nuerological issues. It's accepted here that younger people have an easier time healing, and the idea is that MSCs allow you to heal like you did when you were young. Maybe MSCs could trigger whatever healing mechanism is necessary for us to start making progress and strides toward healing. Jocelyn Pederson seems to think so. And I do too!

 

Let's discuss?  

 

 

 

 

From what you wrote alone, this is very intriguing. Will continue reading more...thank you.

Mel Gibson was on Joe Rogan recently stating that mesenchymal stem cells saved his dad's life. He went to a renown MSC clinic in Panama

 

This is the reason for all the hype.

 

For certain problems they're great.

They don't however act as stem cells for stuff other than basic connective tissues and bone. If you're suffering arthritis or

another severe degradation of connective tissue there's a lot of evidence that direct injection at the site has quite a bit of

potential. Unfortunately they don't circulate endlessly in the system as the lungs collect them up when they're injected.

 

The reason you find lower morbidity rates is because when people can move they live longer. Being stuck in a wheel chair

after losing a leg will shorten your life expectancy dramatically for example.

 

 

The greater problem with the facebook groups and internet hype is that they're going to be massive affected by the placebo

effect.

 

1. Traveling to an exotic location

2. Tons of "cool new science"

3. A NEEDLE stuck in you.

 

This MUST be real right? How can it not be real? That's more or less what your mind is telling you.

 

The placebo effect is multiplied out by these factors immensely.

The difference between a placebo given in a needle vs a placebo in a white sugar pill is massive.

 

I'm not saying they don't work. They have a lot of potential. I'm saying that people often over state the benefits

because the placebo effect has taken hold of the mind and the placebo effect seems to be able to make anything

happen short of pregnancy. 

 

 

 

 

I do believe we have some mitochondrial deficiencies.  That would explain how so many are tired all the time.  This part from that study is interesting:

 

"In our review, we summarized mitochondrial dysfunction during AKI and the role of MSC therapy in targeting mitochondrial dysfunction in AKI. MSCs are able to minimize mitochondrial injury, accelerate mitochondrial recovery and induce the transfer of healthy mitochondria through a series of paracrine/endocrine actions, which make MSCs a promising candidate for AKI management."

 

Also, it's disappointing to me that we (The US) are not leading the research on something so important.  Instead, we are stuck in the past with people still fighting the use of stem cells for religious reasons. 

 

And I don't think stem cells are only for connective tissues and bone.  As I mentioned in another thread, stem cell treatment is being used for things like ALS and other neurological conditions of which I believe benzodiazepine discontinuation syndrome to belong to. 

 

This is definitely an interesting topic and I look forward to learning more about it. 

For certain problems they're great.

They don't however act as stem cells for stuff other than basic connective tissues and bone.

 

This is simply not true. Refer to the vast array of articles I posted on various conditions that have nothing to do with connective tissue and bone. A lot of the stem cell therapies that are offered in the states are best suited and generally used for these types of issues (see: Regenexx, for example), but the cultured umbilical MSC treatments have studies indicating use for much more than orthopedics. Neurological diseases and nerve damage, autoimmunities, general health and wellbeing, etc. etc. Again, see my last post. Lol... The stem cells that Regenexx and other orthopedic companies use here in the states are totally different cells despite their similar title - they extract adult stem cells from the patients' own bone marrow and then re-inject them into orthopedic injuries. Abroad, they extract stromal/stem cells from the umbilical cords of live births, culture and multiple them, then give as an IV.

 

The greater problem with the facebook groups and internet hype is that they're going to be massive affected by the placebo

effect.

I'm not saying they don't work. They have a lot of potential. I'm saying that people often over state the benefits

because the placebo effect has taken hold of the mind and the placebo effect seems to be able to make anything

happen short of pregnancy. 

 

I feel you. I'm sure there is some of that. But jeez, that only goes so far, right?? I mean, the accounts are pretty boundless. I just watched a Bioxcellerator video with the wrestler Kevin Nash who said the pain and lack of mobility in his hand (from nerve damage) was totally gone the morning after treatment. And that is something that is constantly echoed throughout forums, groups, vlogs, etc. Nerve pain gone within days. I get what you said, but at some point... do we not have to take what these people are saying as truth? How many similar accounts do we need before we start thinking maybe it's more than placebo? ..Let alone when we pair the accounts with the myriad of studies that suggest similar efficacy... Let alone when the only benzo damaged person to take stem cells (that we are aware of) reported similar awesome benefits....

 

I don't knowww... I am not typically an optimist, but the data looks interesting (if not promising) to me.

 

I do believe we have some mitochondrial deficiencies.  That would explain how so many are tired all the time.  This part from that study is interesting:

 

This stuck out to me as well. At the Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Symposium at the University of Arizona a couple months ago, Dr. Raffa mentioned the mitochondria as being a suspected source of our trouble.

I’ve been researching g Pulsed Electromagnetic Field Therapy.

 

You might find this interesting:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6409305/

From what you wrote alone, this is very intriguing. Will continue reading more...thank you.

 

Quite welcome. Let me know what you think upon your further reading!

 

I’ve been researching g Pulsed Electromagnetic Field Therapy.

You might find this interesting:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6409305/

 

This is interesting, Ajusta! Thanks!

For certain problems they're great.

They don't however act as stem cells for stuff other than basic connective tissues and bone.

 

This is simply not true. Refer to the vast array of articles I posted on various conditions that have nothing to do with connective tissue and bone. A lot of the stem cell therapies that are offered in the states are best suited and generally used for these types of issues (see: Regenexx, for example), but the cultured umbilical MSC treatments have studies indicating use for much more than orthopedics. Neurological diseases and nerve damage, autoimmunities, general health and wellbeing, etc. etc. Again, see my last post. Lol... The stem cells that Regenexx and other orthopedic companies use here in the states are totally different cells despite their similar title - they extract adult stem cells from the patients' own bone marrow and then re-inject them into orthopedic injuries. Abroad, they extract stromal/stem cells from the umbilical cords of live births, culture and multiple them, then give as an IV.

 

The greater problem with the facebook groups and internet hype is that they're going to be massive affected by the placebo

effect.

I'm not saying they don't work. They have a lot of potential. I'm saying that people often over state the benefits

because the placebo effect has taken hold of the mind and the placebo effect seems to be able to make anything

happen short of pregnancy. 

 

I feel you. I'm sure there is some of that. But jeez, that only goes so far, right?? I mean, the accounts are pretty boundless. I just watched a Bioxcellerator video with the wrestler Kevin Nash who said the pain and lack of mobility in his hand (from nerve damage) was totally gone the morning after treatment. And that is something that is constantly echoed throughout forums, groups, vlogs, etc. Nerve pain gone within days. I get what you said, but at some point... do we not have to take what these people are saying as truth? How many similar accounts do we need before we start thinking maybe it's more than placebo? ..Let alone when we pair the accounts with the myriad of studies that suggest similar efficacy... Let alone when the only benzo damaged person to take stem cells (that we are aware of) reported similar awesome benefits....

 

I don't knowww... I am not typically an optimist, but the data looks interesting (if not promising) to me.

 

I'm 100% aware of how it works here and abroad. I've inquired about having the therapy done on my mother. She has

pretty bad issues with her arthritis to the point that I know it's going to become debilitating.

 

First problem is that MSCs only differentiate in to bone and connective tissues. This is well studied.

 

Second problem is that MSCs are picked up by the lungs in the first pass through the body. This is also well studied.

 

 

So there's this bit of "magic" that appears to be happening that falls outside MSCs. How it happens? I dunno. Could be placebo.

 

 

The secondary effects of having stronger bone and connective tissue is well known. Sometimes we have a nerve pain and the

real cause of that nerve pain is how our bone, ligament or musculature is functioning. So the secondary effect of fixing that

is "curing nerve pain". This makes things more complicated with MSCs but it's well within their realm of "possible effects". Some

of the other stuff just falls well outside of it.

 

If we're going to do stem cells in some foreign country and not care about the ethics involved then I'd like to see some pure

multi/pluri-potent stem cell therapies. Enough of this garbage. Give me the real stuff. I want stem cells that can turn in to anything

and I want to be able to run them in a multi day long infusion through my body. Let's cut the crap...

 

 

 

 

 

For certain problems they're great.

They don't however act as stem cells for stuff other than basic connective tissues and bone.

 

This is simply not true. Refer to the vast array of articles I posted on various conditions that have nothing to do with connective tissue and bone. A lot of the stem cell therapies that are offered in the states are best suited and generally used for these types of issues (see: Regenexx, for example), but the cultured umbilical MSC treatments have studies indicating use for much more than orthopedics. Neurological diseases and nerve damage, autoimmunities, general health and wellbeing, etc. etc. Again, see my last post. Lol... The stem cells that Regenexx and other orthopedic companies use here in the states are totally different cells despite their similar title - they extract adult stem cells from the patients' own bone marrow and then re-inject them into orthopedic injuries. Abroad, they extract stromal/stem cells from the umbilical cords of live births, culture and multiple them, then give as an IV.

 

The greater problem with the facebook groups and internet hype is that they're going to be massive affected by the placebo

effect.

I'm not saying they don't work. They have a lot of potential. I'm saying that people often over state the benefits

because the placebo effect has taken hold of the mind and the placebo effect seems to be able to make anything

happen short of pregnancy. 

 

I feel you. I'm sure there is some of that. But jeez, that only goes so far, right?? I mean, the accounts are pretty boundless. I just watched a Bioxcellerator video with the wrestler Kevin Nash who said the pain and lack of mobility in his hand (from nerve damage) was totally gone the morning after treatment. And that is something that is constantly echoed throughout forums, groups, vlogs, etc. Nerve pain gone within days. I get what you said, but at some point... do we not have to take what these people are saying as truth? How many similar accounts do we need before we start thinking maybe it's more than placebo? ..Let alone when we pair the accounts with the myriad of studies that suggest similar efficacy... Let alone when the only benzo damaged person to take stem cells (that we are aware of) reported similar awesome benefits....

 

I don't knowww... I am not typically an optimist, but the data looks interesting (if not promising) to me.

 

I'm 100% aware of how it works here and abroad. I've inquired about having the therapy done on my mother. She has

pretty bad issues with her arthritis to the point that I know it's going to become debilitating.

 

First problem is that MSCs only differentiate in to bone and connective tissues. This is well studied.

 

Second problem is that MSCs are picked up by the lungs in the first pass through the body. This is also well studied.

 

 

So there's this bit of "magic" that appears to be happening that falls outside MSCs. How it happens? I dunno. Could be placebo.

 

 

The secondary effects of having stronger bone and connective tissue is well known. Sometimes we have a nerve pain and the

real cause of that nerve pain is how our bone, ligament or musculature is functioning. So the secondary effect of fixing that

is "curing nerve pain". This makes things more complicated with MSCs but it's well within their realm of "possible effects". Some

of the other stuff just falls well outside of it.

 

If we're going to do stem cells in some foreign country and not care about the ethics involved then I'd like to see some pure

multi/pluri-potent stem cell therapies. Enough of this garbage. Give me the real stuff. I want stem cells that can turn in to anything

and I want to be able to run them in a multi day long infusion through my body. Let's cut the crap...

 

The discussions/agreements/disagreements have been civil thus far, a reasonable exchange of viewpoints. Let's keep it on a level where there are no personal attacks or disparaging comments. I'm not sure this was your intent, so this is a gentle reminder.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

pianogirl

I'm 100% aware of how it works here and abroad. I've inquired about having the therapy done on my mother. She has

pretty bad issues with her arthritis to the point that I know it's going to become debilitating.

 

First problem is that MSCs only differentiate in to bone and connective tissues. This is well studied.

 

Second problem is that MSCs are picked up by the lungs in the first pass through the body. This is also well studied.

 

So there's this bit of "magic" that appears to be happening that falls outside MSCs. How it happens? I dunno. Could be placebo.

 

The secondary effects of having stronger bone and connective tissue is well known. Sometimes we have a nerve pain and the

real cause of that nerve pain is how our bone, ligament or musculature is functioning. So the secondary effect of fixing that

is "curing nerve pain". This makes things more complicated with MSCs but it's well within their realm of "possible effects". Some

of the other stuff just falls well outside of it.

 

If we're going to do stem cells in some foreign country and not care about the ethics involved then I'd like to see some pure

multi/pluri-potent stem cell therapies. Enough of this garbage. Give me the real stuff. I want stem cells that can turn in to anything

and I want to be able to run them in a multi day long infusion through my body. Let's cut the crap...

 

I am talking about MSCs ability to hone in on sites of inflammation and damage in the body and send out trophic factors, cytokines. exosomes, etc. This is also well studied (see below, which I attached earlier). And this is how they are healing things besides connective tissue; they send out signals that tell the body to heal areas of damage and inflammation. This is the 'magic' of which you speak. It's been uncovered and is not speculative.

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/ten.teb.2016.0365

'They target inflammation in the body and then release bioactive trophic factors that stimulate neighboring parenchymal cells to start repairing damaged tissues. Trophic factors also modulate the local immune system, enhance angiogenesis, prevent cell apoptosis, stimulate survival, proliferation, and differentiation of resident tissue specific cells, produce extracellular vesicles and membrane nanotubes - which can both connect different cells and transfer a variety of trophic factors varying from proteins to mRNAs and miRNAs'

 

Please look at the plethora of studies I attached proving that MSCs do not just heal connective tissue. This is wrong and also well studied. And you can also search for more - there are wayyy more than just the ones I posted.

 

Yes, MSCs first travel to the heart and lungs. They do not stay there though.

https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/131/8/e101/267720?fbclid=IwAR1zgHjKyC6qYvnfOfJCBinwrJlOj15LgTW7Uj9ZrKbgNa7CkwS6u4d265c

50-60% pulmonary accumulation after an hour, and that continues to drop with every hour that passes. They then move into the bloodstream and move onto other organs and places throughout the body. They remain active for months. 

 

There are far too many studies and accounts of MSCs at this point to be placebo, let alone 'garbage'. And I'm not sure about the 'ethics' of which you speak? These are taken from umbilical cords of live, healthy births. No ethical dilemmas there.

 

If you are aware of some 'multi/pluri-potent' stem cells being offered 'in some foreign country' please detail them!

As far as I have read, MSCs are bar-none the most powerful, promising, and SAFE option out there as far as stem cells. But I am all ears if you have other (legitimate) suggestions.

 

Sorry,

 

The "garbage" I'm referring to is that we're using sub-par science because we've been hindered by ethics

and religious groups.

 

China is the only country you'll probably find multipotent stem cell therapy. They don't have the same religious

hangups as the west. Sadly none of us have private Chinese research money. 

 

 

So lets all chill out. My "Let's cut the crap" comment was completely in reference to the fact that we've

fallen so far behind in stem cell science because of the fear mongering of religion in science.

 

I never referenced anything disparaging what's going on in here. At all. I don't believe it's as fantastic as some

think it is. I think there's a lot of placebo effect. The level of in depth clinical trials simply aren't there.

 

I absolutely DO think the therapy is useful.

 

 

China is the only country you'll probably find multipotent stem cell therapy.

 

Is this available to foreigners and are there any clinics there that can be trusted?

Not any specific ones that I'm aware of. I talked to a geneticist earlier this year about life extension

stuff and he pointed to China's current growth in that sector as being staggering. They've got a lot

of people but more importantly a lot of people who don't want to die.

 

Here's a relatively recent abstract with some details of the level of growth there.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29284300

 

They have pretty lax policy on it because well.. Religion.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell_laws_and_policy_in_China#Cultural_views

 

As noted there.

 

Hopefully we'll see something in the next 10 years out of China that then gets picked up by the

West. Even if it's in Panama...

 

 

I posted this on the NO thread

however if you listen to this he talks about Stem cells

and nitric oxide at about 16.00  and about the influence on stem cell therapy

working or failing. 

 

I posted this on the NO thread

however if you listen to this he talks about Stem cells

and nitric oxide at about 16.00  and about the influence on stem cell therapy

working or failing. 

 

 

Thanks, Sky!

Seems to be mostly about isolating and re-injecting stem cells from one's own body, as opposed to the umbilical extraction which I believe to be far more effective. But this is interesting nonetheless!

bump

I posted this on the NO thread

however if you listen to this he talks about Stem cells

and nitric oxide at about 16.00  and about the influence on stem cell therapy

working or failing. 

 

 

Thanks, Sky!

Seems to be mostly about isolating and re-injecting stem cells from one's own body,

as opposed to the umbilical extraction

which I believe to be far more effective.

But this is interesting nonetheless!

 

agree,  if the nitric oxide is already deficient then

perhaps any stem cells would fail also. 

 

at least knowing healthy nitric oxide levels might be even perhaps be  necessary

for the umbilical cells to survive, and repair problems and

is worth thinking about or investigating perhaps

before embarking on this therapy maybe.

Interesting article:

 

https://news.usc.edu/63669/fasting-triggers-stem-cell-regeneration-of-damaged-old-immune-system/

Nov and All:

 

Tooktoolong found this on stem cells and immuno therapy:

 

Interesting:

 

https://news.usc.edu/63669/fasting-triggers-stem-cell-regeneration-of-damaged-old-immune-system/

 

 

So much research out there, new theories on depression and anxiety but you go to the doctor and they’re still prescribing the same old shit. It kind of reminds me of those concept cars car companies unveil every year but we never see not one of them on the road ever.

You got that right.  That is why what we do here is so important.

Glad to have a neuroscientist on the team that’s for sure

Greek,

 

To be clear, I am self taught, but I am a good teacher

 

4 years in the MIT crucible with people waaaaaaaaaaaaay smarter than me honed my problem solving skills, gave me the ability to learn things that other people can't, and compete way over my head.  That is what I need to keep marching our cause forward.  Every one of you are helping a lot! (Well, most of you  )

 

Ramcon1

I posted this article on another thread about 'kindling', which may be more accurately referred to as 'sensitization phenomena' or 'centralized sensitization'. In discussing with some other forum members, we think there may be a possibility that this post-benzo kindling or sensitization of our glutamate receptors (possibly gaba too) may be the primary cause of our long-standing withdrawal syndromes. The receptors are simply in a state of hyperexcitability and sensitization. They overreact to all types of stimuli (external, internal, chemical, etc.) and those overreaction manifest as our varied symptoms.

 

https://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/jnp.12.3.328

 

A lot of sources state this sensitization is permanent once it is 'kindled'. But we've been exploring new ways that might reverse that kindled state.

 

I'd like to share another potentially relevant one here.

This article discusses the use of Mesenchymal Stem Cells to reconstruct kindled receptors of the adenosine system. Yes - it is not our adenosine system that is in need of reconstructing. However, these are kindled brain receptors. If our glutamate/gaba receptors are indeed kindled, as the adenosine receptors in this paper are, it stands to reason that MSCs may 'reconstruct' other kindled receptors as well.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4353095/