Is this tolerance withdrawal?

PLEASE HELP. I’ve only had a few blips with my taper due to many holds. On September 25 I hit 2 mg for the second time  I had to updose .2 mg 2 months prior. I have had mystery symptoms since September 11

 

with viral symptoms and crushing fatigue since then. I functioned the first 4 and the last 3 bedridden . All blood work came back normal. Last 7 days I’ve gotten sicker and sicker. I hour ago, I became so sick, I thought I would have to go to the hospital. It dawned on me it could be the Valium so I took 1 mg and sickness went away. I’ve held at 2 mg the entire time. Is this tolerance withdrawal? Would .5 mg updose be enough?  Thanks for any feedback

I think that you want to avoid doing this updose/taper yo-yo thing.  The jump from 2.5mg to 2mg is a 20% reduction.  We advise people do small cuts of no greater than 5-10%.  I think this gets more critical toward the end of the taper. 

 

I suspect you've reached a point where the drug isn't conferring any noticeable positive therapeutic action.  I think a lot of people hit a point like this during their taper - some earlier, some later.  It just depends on how addicted/dependent your body has become to the drug.  It's like tolerance withdrawal although I tend to use that term for people who haven't yet started a taper and are experiencing withdrawal symptoms.

 

I would invite you to not up-dose, and instead hold until you can begin a slow taper.  If you decide to updose, I'd still invite you to change the way you are doing your taper to avoid such large percentage drops in your dosage.

Hi Bad,

I have been doing a slow liquid taper, I hit 5 days befor 2 in July and got hit. Updosed to 2.2. Got down to 2 again August 25th. I’ve had this horror for 2 months. Flat on my back no work. The 2 mg marker is a danger zone for me. I never related this mystery illness to the Valium. I don’t see any other way than to updose with dlmt. I seriously almost had a seizure last night before I took the 1 mg.

What you are describing is withdrawal.

I think that you want to avoid doing this updose/taper yo-yo thing.  The jump from 2.5mg to 2mg is a 20% reduction.  We advise people do small cuts of no greater than 5-10%.  I think this gets more critical toward the end of the taper. 

 

I suspect you've reached a point where the drug isn't conferring any noticeable positive therapeutic action.  I think a lot of people hit a point like this during their taper - some earlier, some later.  It just depends on how addicted/dependent your body has become to the drug.  It's like tolerance withdrawal although I tend to use that term for people who haven't yet started a taper and are experiencing withdrawal symptoms.

 

I would invite you to not up-dose, and instead hold until you can begin a slow taper.  If you decide to updose, I'd still invite you to change the way you are doing your taper to avoid such large percentage drops in your dosage.

I am in tolerance withdrawal too.  Just updosed from .5 once a day to .75 three times a day yesterday now wish I hadn’t. Is it too late to go back to .5 maybe twice a day? 

I think that you want to avoid doing this updose/taper yo-yo thing.  The jump from 2.5mg to 2mg is a 20% reduction.  We advise people do small cuts of no greater than 5-10%.  I think this gets more critical toward the end of the taper. 

 

I suspect you've reached a point where the drug isn't conferring any noticeable positive therapeutic action.  I think a lot of people hit a point like this during their taper - some earlier, some later.  It just depends on how addicted/dependent your body has become to the drug.  It's like tolerance withdrawal although I tend to use that term for people who haven't yet started a taper and are experiencing withdrawal symptoms.

 

I would invite you to not up-dose, and instead hold until you can begin a slow taper.  If you decide to updose, I'd still invite you to change the way you are doing your taper to avoid such large percentage drops in your dosage.

I am in tolerance withdrawal too.  Just updosed from .5 once a day to .75 three times a day yesterday now wish I hadn’t. Is it too late to go back to .5 maybe twice a day?

hey lookinup,

If it's only one day I think you're safe to go back to your .5 tomorrow. I have taken extra Xanax for a flight last year and did it twice. Plane ride to Florida and back. I went right back to my normal dose next day both times and was fine. I really think you can go back in this case it's only been one day.

Just my two cents.

Trish

I think that you want to avoid doing this updose/taper yo-yo thing.  The jump from 2.5mg to 2mg is a 20% reduction.  We advise people do small cuts of no greater than 5-10%.  I think this gets more critical toward the end of the taper. 

 

I suspect you've reached a point where the drug isn't conferring any noticeable positive therapeutic action.  I think a lot of people hit a point like this during their taper - some earlier, some later.  It just depends on how addicted/dependent your body has become to the drug.  It's like tolerance withdrawal although I tend to use that term for people who haven't yet started a taper and are experiencing withdrawal symptoms.

 

I would invite you to not up-dose, and instead hold until you can begin a slow taper.  If you decide to updose, I'd still invite you to change the way you are doing your taper to avoid such large percentage drops in your dosage.

I am in tolerance withdrawal too.  Just updosed from .5 once a day to .75 three times a day yesterday now wish I hadn’t. Is it too late to go back to .5 maybe twice a day?

hey lookinup,

If it's only one day I think you're safe to go back to your .5 tomorrow. I have taken extra Xanax for a flight last year and did it twice. Plane ride to Florida and back. I went right back to my normal dose next day both times and was fine. I really think you can go back in this case it's only been one day.

Just my two cents.

Trish

I think that you want to avoid doing this updose/taper yo-yo thing.  The jump from 2.5mg to 2mg is a 20% reduction.  We advise people do small cuts of no greater than 5-10%.  I think this gets more critical toward the end of the taper. 

 

I suspect you've reached a point where the drug isn't conferring any noticeable positive therapeutic action.  I think a lot of people hit a point like this during their taper - some earlier, some later.  It just depends on how addicted/dependent your body has become to the drug.  It's like tolerance withdrawal although I tend to use that term for people who haven't yet started a taper and are experiencing withdrawal symptoms.

 

I would invite you to not up-dose, and instead hold until you can begin a slow taper.  If you decide to updose, I'd still invite you to change the way you are doing your taper to avoid such large percentage drops in your dosage.

I am in tolerance withdrawal too.  Just updosed from .5 once a day to .75 three times a day yesterday now wish I hadn’t. Is it too late to go back to .5 maybe twice a day?

hey lookinup,

If it's only one day I think you're safe to go back to your .5 tomorrow. I have taken extra Xanax for a flight last year and did it twice. Plane ride to Florida and back. I went right back to my normal dose next day both times and was fine. I really think you can go back in this case it's only been one day.

Just my two cents.

Trish

Thanks, Trish!

Hi Bad,

I have been doing a slow liquid taper, I hit 5 days befor 2 in July and got hit. Updosed to 2.2. Got down to 2 again August 25th. I’ve had this horror for 2 months. Flat on my back no work. The 2 mg marker is a danger zone for me. I never related this mystery illness to the Valium. I don’t see any other way than to updose with dlmt. I seriously almost had a seizure last night before I took the 1 mg.

 

I've seen this 2mg level be a problem for some others, but eventually they get thru it.  You might want to consider making smaller reductions in your dosage.  Instead of 10% cuts (2.2mg -> 2.0mg), perhaps something under 1% would be gentler.  Folks in the daily micro-taper program often reduce by less than 0.05% per cut.

Thanks all for this topic your input.... last month I cut too fast. I was cutting a 1/2 mg Valium each time and just wanted to get it over with!  Big mistake.  I ended up at going back up to 6mg for a few days (yes I know that's a big updose). 

 

I was ready to give up the taper - to just quit and fold.  But, within a week I was back on track.  I saw Lisa Ling's documentary and finally got serious about getting support on here at BB. 

 

I now know that all my bizarre and awful symptoms are 1) the same as others, and 2) I need to taper slower now that I am down to the low end.  It didn't f me up to up-dose for a week, and last week I had 3 of the best windows I've had in years.  That said - I am down to 4mg and starting to listen to what others are saying about cutting slower.  I am having episodes of depression and faintness and weakness but they are fleeting.    I am going to start quartering the pills instead of halving them.  And holding, until I am not in dire distress.  Thank you 

Thanks all for this topic your input.... last month I cut too fast. I was cutting a 1/2 mg Valium each time and just wanted to get it over with!  Big mistake.  I ended up at going back up to 6mg for a few days (yes I know that's a big updose). 

 

I was ready to give up the taper - to just quit and fold.  But, within a week I was back on track.  I saw Lisa Ling's documentary and finally got serious about getting support on here at BB. 

 

I now know that all my bizarre and awful symptoms are 1) the same as others, and 2) I need to taper slower now that I am down to the low end.  It didn't f me up to up-dose for a week, and last week I had 3 of the best windows I've had in years.  That said - I am down to 4mg and starting to listen to what others are saying about cutting slower.  I am having episodes of depression and faintness and weakness but they are fleeting.    I am going to start quartering the pills instead of halving them.  And holding, until I am not in dire distress.  Thank you 

. How did you do with the Crossover?  I hear it is tough for some, but much easier for tapering. And how much do you taper at a time?  Thanks!

Sorry Lookinup!  I didn't realize you were asking me!  The crossover was a breeze for me. 

It was actually a relief for some reason.  I felt way less symptoms and I thought" this is going to be easy!!". 

(1mg Clonazepam = 20mg Valium)..

Well I was right about that until I got down below 7.5mg Valium. 

 

Then the taper withdrawal turned me into Cinderella at the ball waiting for the clock to strike midnight.  Each day's half dose would hold me for a few hours, and then withdrawal! 

At 5mg/day (2.5 + 2.5) I held for a year because I was carpentering.  I was having muscle spasms and tightness that was getting unbearable.  I would quit work for the day and then curl up in a ball for hours to wait for my body to un-seize. Its clear now that I can't do that kind of stuff now. 

 

I am taking the pill form, and got a little pill slicer box at the drug store.  They work pretty good.

 

I was also on 15mg Oxazepam nightly (7.5 valium equivalency). 

 

Last week I cut from 4mg. day to 3.5mg day.  And at the same time I cut the night dose of Oxazepam 15mg down to 10mg (5mg Valium equvalant).  After I taper off the day stuff I will work on the night stuff.  Oxazepam has a very short half life of 4 hours so I'm pretty sure my brain changes or damage from that form of benzo, will be less than my years of Clonazepam - but who knows?

 

  I am feeling the brunt of the two cuts these last few days.  I had a shingles outbreak and am weak as a kitten.... I tried to pick up a 2x4 today and I was so feeble I put it down!  My really great doctor (new) told me that I wouldn't  know the hard part until I jump completely.  I think he's right as two mgs in the morning really still cuts me a break.  Hope this helps!

 

 

Sorry Lookinup!  I didn't realize you were asking me!  The crossover was a breeze for me. 

It was actually a relief for some reason.  I felt way less symptoms and I thought" this is going to be easy!!". 

(1mg Clonazepam = 20mg Valium)..

Well I was right about that until I got down below 7.5mg Valium. 

 

Then the taper withdrawal turned me into Cinderella at the ball waiting for the clock to strike midnight.  Each day's half dose would hold me for a few hours, and then withdrawal! 

At 5mg/day (2.5 + 2.5) I held for a year because I was carpentering.  I was having muscle spasms and tightness that was getting unbearable.  I would quit work for the day and then curl up in a ball for hours to wait for my body to un-seize. Its clear now that I can't do that kind of stuff now. 

 

I am taking the pill form, and got a little pill slicer box at the drug store.  They work pretty good.

 

I was also on 15mg Oxazepam nightly (7.5 valium equivalency). 

 

Last week I cut from 4mg. day to 3.5mg day.  And at the same time I cut the night dose of Oxazepam 15mg down to 10mg (5mg Valium equvalant).  After I taper off the day stuff I will work on the night stuff.  Oxazepam has a very short half life of 4 hours so I'm pretty sure my brain changes or damage from that form of benzo, will be less than my years of Clonazepam - but who knows?

 

  I am feeling the brunt of the two cuts these last few days.  I had a shingles outbreak and am weak as a kitten.... I tried to pick up a 2x4 today and I was so feeble I put it down!  My really great doctor (new) told me that I wouldn't  know the hard part until I jump completely.  I think he's right as two mgs in the morning really still cuts me a break.  Hope this helps!

Thank you.  This was helpful. Some say it is more difficult to crossover and stay on Klonopin.  I think a change may be good. When you were in tolerance did you experience withddrawal symptoms?  Tha’ts what I am feeling and haven’t reduced yet.  Thanks again.

Dear Lookinup....I absolutely had tolerance w/d but didn't know that was it.  Particularly extreme vertigo events and almost constant nausea.  As I peel back the layers of this drug - I am getting the recurrence of symptoms that eventually went away as I upped my doses.  Like numbness and tingling in my hands.  I had that come on me about two years into Clonazepam use.  At the time, before I read so many others on here, and some Benzo medical science, I thought I was just getting sicker with Lyme.  It was withdrawal in hindsight.  Lyme symptoms are very very similar to Benzo withdrawal.  I guess its all brain damage.  But really I'm not an expert.  It may be some time before I know the real state I'm in! 

Dear Magnolis..... I wanted to add to your question my experience.  I am down to 3.5mg.  I am just encountering the tip of what is to come - but I know that every time I have cut (down from 20mg) I get a viral outbreak as well...  it concerns me because my body is fighting to function, and my immune system is low because of it.  Another reason to taper slowly and respectfully.  I am wondering if you have rallied yet and if you still feel awful?  I have up-dosed once.  I had to because I was so scared, and without reassurance or medical knowledge... just before I came on here.  I thought I was dying.  It's taken me over a month to almost get back to where I was (3mg).  I jumped by a few mgs.  For a few days.... and then got ready to continue.  It was OK that I did that.  Hope you are having some windows 

Dear Magnolis..... I wanted to add to your question my experience.  I am down to 3.5mg.  I am just encountering the tip of what is to come - but I know that every time I have cut (down from 20mg) I get a viral outbreak as well...  it concerns me because my body is fighting to function, and my immune system is low because of it.  Another reason to taper slowly and respectfully.  I am wondering if you have rallied yet and if you still feel awful?  I have up-dosed once.  I had to because I was so scared, and without reassurance or medical knowledge... just before I came on here.  I thought I was dying.  It's taken me over a month to almost get back to where I was (3mg).  I jumped by a few mgs.  For a few days.... and then got ready to continue.  It was OK that I did that.  Hope you are having some windows 

Did you crossover all at once to Valium?

I did it - the crossover - in a week.  I just substituted the morning dose with Valium and then the afternoon dose Valium, a week later.  There was no difficulty.... none.  I went off sleep medication for 4 months after, because the Valium made me sleepier than Clonazepam.

Jan,

It’s 2.5 weeks since the updose and it was the right choice. I’m seeing small improvements. The main issue is fatigue so bad I can’t work or do anything. I did not have this fatigue before the crash. Because it’s been so long since I felt ok, I write a daily progress chart. Some days nothing. Other days a few added items. Mornings are hell and I have a rough time mentally during the day, I guess I’m lucky I’m not forced to work thru this but I’m unmotivated and  lethargic all day. I feel better at night. Thanks for asking

 

I did it - the crossover - in a week.  I just substituted the morning dose with Valium and then the afternoon dose Valium, a week later.  There was no difficulty.... none.  I went off sleep medication for 4 months after, because the Valium made me sleepier than Clonazepam.