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set backs - back to acute - everything lost?


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after getting back to what i would say was 80% cured, i was fully stable and out enjoying my life, completely able to care for myself and enjoy myself with others, even drive. i couldn't believe how stable i was. no "windows and waves" just exactly the same every day but with constant improvement as days/weeks went by. hadn't had a "wave" in forever, was pretty much a normal person again.

 

now all of a sudden, thanks to i think a combination of some supplements, a bit of alcohol and other things im back to WORSE than acute. i mean worse. im housebound, shaking/pacing, being sick everywhere, anxiety not seen since the very first few days off, cant eat, cant sleep i jerk awake after 10 seconds... this hasn't happened for over 1.5 years, ive been sleeping fairly soundly for over a year.

 

this has been going on now for over 1.5 months and seems to just be getting worse and worse and worse. everything i could do i cant, cant even eat things i could anymore.

 

all i want to know is.... am i literally right back to square one. am i actually back 1.5 years in my recovery. i know people will say no... but who has had experience with this? does it go and you end up perfectly back to where you were quickly. or does it take months and months and essentially you have to recover back to that point again.

 

i cant take it all over again. i honestly cant do it again. i forgot what it was like to be this bad

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just to say i had NO sensitivities to anything before this. i know people say they are sensitive to things like magnesium supplements, vitamins D supplements etc.

 

i was SO SO SO stabled i could take tons of this, i could even do stupid stuff and drink energy drinks and known anxiety causing agents with no issue. in fact "anxiety" had gone and wasnt even a symptom i thought about anymore. i could literally go anywhere and do anything with NO worry of it ever returning no matter what i did.

 

now i cant leave the house with crippling anxiety

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just to say i had NO sensitivities to anything before this. i know people say they are sensitive to things like magnesium supplements, vitamins D supplements etc.

 

i was SO SO SO stabled i could take tons of this, i could even do stupid stuff and drink energy drinks and known anxiety causing agents with no issue. in fact "anxiety" had gone and wasnt even a symptom i thought about anymore. i could literally go anywhere and do anything with NO worry of it ever returning no matter what i did.

 

now i cant leave the house with crippling anxiety

 

Josh,

 

I'm sorry you are experiencing a set back.  I don't know what you mean by 'anxiety causing agents' but it appears your cns is still sensitive.  Some people may be more sensitive to supplements and alcohol after withdrawal. 

 

If it were me, I'd stay off anything that might impact my nervous system and allow it to recover, return to your baseline. You should notice these symptoms easing up, give it a little time. I had a very strong wave at about 14 months off, right before my complete healing.  I believe it was the last gasp of benzo withdrawal.

 

I hope you feel better soon.

 

pianogirl  :smitten:

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just to say i had NO sensitivities to anything before this. i know people say they are sensitive to things like magnesium supplements, vitamins D supplements etc.

 

i was SO SO SO stabled i could take tons of this, i could even do stupid stuff and drink energy drinks and known anxiety causing agents with no issue. in fact "anxiety" had gone and wasnt even a symptom i thought about anymore. i could literally go anywhere and do anything with NO worry of it ever returning no matter what i did.

 

now i cant leave the house with crippling anxiety

 

Josh,

 

I'm sorry you are experiencing a set back.  I don't know what you mean by 'anxiety causing agents' but it appears your cns is still sensitive.  Some people may be more sensitive to supplements and alcohol after withdrawal. 

 

If it were me, I'd stay off anything that might impact my nervous system and allow it to recover, return to your baseline. You should notice these symptoms easing up, give it a little time. I had a very strong wave at about 14 months off, right before my complete healing.  I believe it was the last gasp of benzo withdrawal.

 

I hope you feel better soon.

 

pianogirl  :smitten:

 

 

anxiety causing agents like energy drinks... or just anything that could give even normal people anxiety. tons of caffeine, coffee, etc etc

 

the problem is some supplements were gaba supplements, i could handle them before but i upped my dose. im PRAYING they haven't down regulated my receptors some more.

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Joshc

 

Sorry this sounds devastating.  Your body has ability to find balance and homeostasis. Luckily it found that balance before, so know it can happen again. Maybe a sign it’s time to be extremely gentle and  Kind with your body right now  since CNS may still be hypersensitive.

 

I’m still tapering and I am diligent about checking the avoid list and not taking or eating anything that could delay or inhibit healing of the central nervous system. I want to give my body the best possible chance to recover.  Do you have a copy of the various avoid lists to refer to?  Many of the items you’re mentioning are on the avoid lists. Some say to stay away from these items for at least two years or more after being off.

 

Pianogirl  Does Benzo Buddie’s have a file for avoid list? I have various lists from some other Benzo Wise  forums that I have compiled together into one word doc, so I can do a word search for anything I’m curious about And read the reasons “Why” it’s on the avoid list  so I can make an informed decision.

 

Joshc If you want my complied avoid list feel free to PM me.

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Joshc  also, what supplements have you been taking? Just curious  if they are on the avoid list.  I look up every ingredient and every excipient and filler that’s listed on the supplement bottle. It’s also recommended to slowly wean off any supplements.  And titrate up on any supplements gradually. Any  sudden changes can  possibly cause setbacks or reactions.
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Joshc

 

Sorry this sounds devastating.  Your body has ability to find balance and homeostasis. Luckily it found that balance before, so know it can happen again. Maybe a sign it’s time to be extremely gentle and  Kind with your body right now  since CNS may still be hypersensitive.

 

I’m still tapering and I am diligent about checking the avoid list and not taking or eating anything that could delay or inhibit healing of the central nervous system. I want to give my body the best possible chance to recover.  Do you have a copy of the various avoid lists to refer to?  Many of the items you’re mentioning are on the avoid lists. Some say to stay away from these items for at least two years or more after being off.

 

Pianogirl  Does Benzo Buddie’s have a file for avoid list? I have various lists from some other Benzo Wise  forums that I have compiled together into one word doc, so I can do a word search for anything I’m curious about And read the reasons “Why” it’s on the avoid list  so I can make an informed decision.

Joshc If you want my complied avoid list feel free to PM me.

 

This is going to vary from person to person.  The only medication we routinely tell people to avoid while on benzos and in withdrawal is the floroquinolone antibiotics.

 

Please post any withdrawal or tapering information on the open forum. The PM system is for general chit chat and moral support. Thanks in advance.

 

PG

 

 

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Josh, on October 20th you stated on another thread that you were 99% healed.

 

i was probably 100% tbh, but still didnt feel "quite" myself. so sometimes i say 99%, sometimes 80 i don't really know. all i know was i was perfectly fine, functioning every single day. driving, out with friends, doing anything i wanted and avoiding nothing. in fact i haven't been anywhere near this board for months, i sort of just forgot about it and that was that.

 

but since this set back, which im scared is actually more damage from "gaba supplements" ive returned. i got better very quickly last time once i focussed on boosting my brains heal/neuroplasticity, so i came back to tell people how i got better, but also it seems ive damaged myself again so need help with how long it'll take, or if ive done actual damage.

 

once thing i will say.... DONT TAKE GABA!

 

ive taken so many herbs that act on gaba, ive done so many things that act on gaba.... and ive been perfect. in fact got better and better.

 

but taking high doses of actual gaba i feel may be the same as benzos and i had no idea!

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[f6...]

Josh, on October 20th you stated on another thread that you were 99% healed.

 

i was probably 100% tbh, but still didnt feel "quite" myself. so sometimes i say 99%, sometimes 80 i don't really know. all i know was i was perfectly fine, functioning every single day. driving, out with friends, doing anything i wanted and avoiding nothing. in fact i haven't been anywhere near this board for months, i sort of just forgot about it and that was that.

 

but since this set back, which im scared is actually more damage from "gaba supplements" ive returned. i got better very quickly last time once i focussed on boosting my brains heal/neuroplasticity, so i came back to tell people how i got better, but also it seems ive damaged myself again so need help with how long it'll take, or if ive done actual damage.

 

once thing i will say.... DONT TAKE GABA!

 

ive taken so many herbs that act on gaba, ive done so many things that act on gaba.... and ive been perfect. in fact got better and better.

 

but taking high doses of actual gaba i feel may be the same as benzos and i had no idea!

 

And the BDNF protocol you've been advocating....are you still on board with that?

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What herbs have you taken that act on gaba that you haven't had any problems with?

 

 

pretty much any herb you can think of that acts on gaba. but gaba itself has **** me

 

 

edit: profanity

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Josh, on October 20th you stated on another thread that you were 99% healed.

 

i was probably 100% tbh, but still didnt feel "quite" myself. so sometimes i say 99%, sometimes 80 i don't really know. all i know was i was perfectly fine, functioning every single day. driving, out with friends, doing anything i wanted and avoiding nothing. in fact i haven't been anywhere near this board for months, i sort of just forgot about it and that was that.

 

but since this set back, which im scared is actually more damage from "gaba supplements" ive returned. i got better very quickly last time once i focussed on boosting my brains heal/neuroplasticity, so i came back to tell people how i got better, but also it seems ive damaged myself again so need help with how long it'll take, or if ive done actual damage.

 

once thing i will say.... DONT TAKE GABA!

 

ive taken so many herbs that act on gaba, ive done so many things that act on gaba.... and ive been perfect. in fact got better and better.

 

but taking high doses of actual gaba i feel may be the same as benzos and i had no idea!

 

And the BDNF protocol you've been advocating....are you still on board with that?

 

am i still taking it?

 

i wasnt, it seemed to get me from acute horrendous to healed in no time (still months) and i stopped.

 

was great for ages until this. ive since read gaba supplements can down regulate receptors similar to benzos, as your body has no control over gaba release when youre taking it yourself, whereas with a herb/precursor the cell still controls what it releases. so im probably fucked.

 

i started the gaba because i was going to the gym and gaba apparently boosts HGH

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Josh, I was doing great at 10 months off. Just about 100 percent healed. The doctor had me increase my nexium dose and wham, bedridden for a week. I adjusted my Nexium dose back down to where I was. I was so weak and spiked BP I went to the ER last night. Today it seems to be lifitng. I am out of bed today. I feel awful, but I dropped my son off to daycare and drove myself to therapy. I even just rode my motorcycle to UPS to mail something. I have been bedridden for the last 4 or 5 days. Hopefully it is lifting.

 

I want to say that setbacks though severe will be short lived. Lay off the alcohol, red bull and supplements. You’ll recover from this. This isn’t fair but it’s not about that now. Hell, if we are being honest we knew life wasn’t fair before benzos. Just take it as a lesson. I hope you are better soon. Remember, day by day. My wife was watching me for suicide watch last night. Today I am up and about. I hope this gives you hope. Although I wouldn’t have listened to you yesterday if you were telling me what I am telling you now. It’s hard to hold on to hope when we are in hell.

 

Btw, my setback hit me at exactly 10 pm last wednesday night. I was shivering for two days straight and could not eat. I was starving but I was shaking and too cold and weak to eat. It was like someone flipped a switch. It was not gradual. It was instant. Scares the hell out of me thinking about it.

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What I think may have returned is the original thing that put you on the Benzo’s..  For instance, anxiety and panic attacks can go away for years in people and then suddenly come back - without benzos. My suggestion would be to learn coping tools like I did that made it go away again.  I went to weekly meetings of Recoveryinternational.org.  It is free.  They now have online meetings almost daily.  I went to local live meetings and I liked that much better than the online ones but I don’t know if there are any in your area.  Please go to their website and look it over and at least give it a try.  It sure helped me and many others I know. 
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[f6...]

What I think may have returned is the original thing that put you on the Benzo’s..  For instance, anxiety and panic attacks can go away for years in people and then suddenly come back - without benzos. My suggestion would be to learn coping tools like I did that made it go away again.  I went to weekly meetings of Recoveryinternational.org.  It is free.  They now have online meetings almost daily.  I went to local live meetings and I liked that much better than the online ones but I don’t know if there are any in your area.  Please go to their website and look it over and at least give it a try.  It sure helped me and many others I know.

 

I attend the online meetings, its really helpful.  My underlying anxiety disorder returned with a vengeance after benzo withdrawal.

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Same with me.  But I found the meetings and what I learned to be just as helpful during tapering for symptoms like anxiety, panic, etc.
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Cberg Way to keep at it. It should tell you something about yourself to have not succeeded for a pretty long period and you are still coming back with a really strong effort. Congratulations on your progress and continued success
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[bb...]

I would say its probably the alcohol that affected you. A member recently joined that is having problems since quitting alcohol.  The reason I went on benzos this most recent time was because of alcohol.  It finally caught up to me.  I didn't realize it at the time because I wasn't aware of the benzo/alcohol kindling withdrawal business at the time.  I started developing doom and gloom and was put on clonazepam for a month.  When i tried to quit it was like a switch went off in my brain.  I believe that's why my withdrawal is so severe for just a short term user. 

 

Stay away from anything stimulating for a while including the GABA supplement, alcohol, and caffeine.  Maybe try some of the BDNF supplements and see if that can get you back on track.

 

Good luck

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but gaba itself has fucked me

 

Josh, what did you take? What is or contains "gaba itself"? I think ppl would want to know so they can steer clear of it.

 

Hope you feel better.

 

Katz

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What I think may have returned is the original thing that put you on the Benzo’s..  For instance, anxiety and panic attacks can go away for years in people and then suddenly come back - without benzos. My suggestion would be to learn coping tools like I did that made it go away again.  I went to weekly meetings of Recoveryinternational.org.  It is free.  They now have online meetings almost daily.  I went to local live meetings and I liked that much better than the online ones but I don’t know if there are any in your area.  Please go to their website and look it over and at least give it a try.  It sure helped me and many others I know.

 

i wasnt on them for anxiety

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Josh, I was doing great at 10 months off. Just about 100 percent healed. The doctor had me increase my nexium dose and wham, bedridden for a week. I adjusted my Nexium dose back down to where I was. I was so weak and spiked BP I went to the ER last night. Today it seems to be lifitng. I am out of bed today. I feel awful, but I dropped my son off to daycare and drove myself to therapy. I even just rode my motorcycle to UPS to mail something. I have been bedridden for the last 4 or 5 days. Hopefully it is lifting.

 

I want to say that setbacks though severe will be short lived. Lay off the alcohol, red bull and supplements. You’ll recover from this. This isn’t fair but it’s not about that now. Hell, if we are being honest we knew life wasn’t fair before benzos. Just take it as a lesson. I hope you are better soon. Remember, day by day. My wife was watching me for suicide watch last night. Today I am up and about. I hope this gives you hope. Although I wouldn’t have listened to you yesterday if you were telling me what I am telling you now. It’s hard to hold on to hope when we are in hell.

 

Btw, my setback hit me at exactly 10 pm last wednesday night. I was shivering for two days straight and could not eat. I was starving but I was shaking and too cold and weak to eat. It was like someone flipped a switch. It was not gradual. It was instant. Scares the hell out of me thinking about it.

 

 

it is actually lifting a little. yesterday i realised i didnt wake up in that HUGE panic attack thing.

 

last night i slept right through and woke up today with only a little lift in anxiety.

 

keep going :) thanks for your message

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Josh,

      I want to let you know that I have been in your shoes. Like exactly where you are. However, unlike you I did not have the power of the knowledge of what was or had happened to me. If you look at my signature you will see that this current Xanax withdrawal is not my first encounter. It is just the first time I knew what was going on.

 

Like you, I have no history of anxiety. I have no history of mental illness of any kind in fact. I do however have a history of getting crappy sleep. That is how benzos entered my life.

 

I had a motorcycle accident in 2015. I pulled through fine but was pretty banged up. Fluid in both my knees, a lot of bruises, and pulled a whole bunch of stuff in my shoulders. At the two week mark I was at the docs for a checkup. I told him the ER had given me muscle relaxers. I was feeling okay at this point and didn't really have any pain. For some reason he gave me a script for 30 pills 10 mg valium.

I really did not need it. But I was curious and filled the prescription. I had heard about valium in songs and from friends back in the day and the old experimental me came out. I picked up the prescription and went home sat down to watch a movie and took one. Let's see what this valium stuff is all about, lol.

 

Well, I woke up 10 HOURS later! Still in my chair still and feeling like a million bucks. I hadn't slept that well since high school. I was 34 at the time. I could not imagine how anyone could take one of these recreationally. It was a sleeping pill.

 

So I took one every night for 30 days until I ran out. I did not know this at the time but I was taking 60 mg of Nexium for acid reflux and the two are contraindicated. Nexium increases the amount of valium in your bloodstream. So I can't really say how much of the drug my body was getting pounded with but it was more than a person who was not on Nexium. That I know for sure. I knew that Valium was addictive so when I was done I thought, bye Valium we had a good run and threw out the bottle. I never even thought about Valium again after that until recently.

 

I had severe anxiety after that. It just sort of crept up on me. I bought a new motorcycle and when riding if the wind blew the wrong way I would get jumpy. I had to pull over all the time because I was too scared to ride. I thought had this crash done me in. Between dirt bikes, my bmx days and motorcycles I had been down on two wheels more times than I could count. Have I all of a sudden gone soft? This continued for a few months and luckily did resolve. I chalked it up to post crash jitters even though I have never experienced it before.

 

About 4 weeks after stopping the valium I became debilitatingly tired. I mean disabling fatigue. I missed a whole week of work. The doctors had no idea what was wrong with me. All tests were negative. As a last ditch effort I went on a Paleo diet which was a fad at the time. It worked! Cutting sugar out worked. The fatigue started lifting and I got back to work. I still was suffering mild anxiety. The waves of fatigue kept coming back though. I would tighten up my diet and see improvement but I was exhausted all the time. I developed depression. I tried vitamin d, every supplement I could find. I would try things and think that they worked. One time I took 50,000 UI of vitamin and my fatigue was cured. I had found the cure. The next time it didn't work. In hindsight I can see that it was all an illusion. I just happened to take these supplements when due to timing I was going to be coming out of the wave anyway.

 

The only thing I know for sure is that cutting out processed foods worked every time. For every wave. It did not stop the wave but it kept me out of bed. Finally the doctors diagnosed me with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/fibromyalgia. I felt doomed. I did not know that this was Valium withdrawal. That had been a year ago at this point. I did not even think about it. was getting waves of severe fatigue. I was having all sorts of weird twitches and buzzes and pains. Then all of a sudden one day I did not have chronic fatigue syndrome anymore. Just like that. I don't know exactly when it happened but I want to say it was around the two year mark.

Keep in mind I went out drinking occasionally with friends throughout this process. Did it coincide with waves? I don't know because I was not tracking any of this. It is all so clear to me now but I was completely naive to this process then.

 

I am writing this to tell you that I believe that the only 3 weeks of Xanax you took could cause you so much harm. I am telling you this because I lived it. 30 pills of valium caused me years of pain. I have seen people on here tell you that you were a short term user. I have read people's posts here who have stated that they doubt that short term use can cause long term effects. I lived it and I believe you.

 

I am glad I did not know what you know. Why? Because I can look back at all the supplements and lifestyle changes and I can truly see that it made little difference. Time heals benzo withdrawal. That's the truth.

 

Now, Imagine you did not know what happened to you and then 4 years later you took Xanax for 6 months straight! Well, that's where I am now. You learned the first time. That is huge. If you look at my signature i really messed myself up by trying valium AGAIN for sleep a couple years later and then 30 days of Ambien! And yes it restarted the process and yes I healed. I am healing again now. Doing pretty damn good in fact considering the amount of times I took and CT'd. I will never take another benzo and neither will you. My wave seems to have ended today. Lasted only a week.

 

When I was in your shoes that first two years the waves lasted from 1 to 3 weeks. I tried all sorts of supplements but the truth is I think that is how long they last. Just take it easy. Try to relax. I know it's hard. Rest as much as you need. I think in a couple of weeks you'll be a new man whether you drink a miracle shake or not. One piece of advice though, if I knew then I would NOT have messed with alcohol. I did not know better. I do think that makes a difference.

 

You are going to get these waves. And then one day you won't. I am sincerely wishing you the best.

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How are you now?  Did it really last a full month and a half?  I think high doses of gaba will create that glutamate response.  I’m surprised it took so long to flush out.  We’re you taking the gaba throughout the month you were struggling?  I’m sure your through the worst of it now, gaba supplements won’t cause as much severe structural damage as benzos imo.  Best wishes
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