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Another failed transition from pill to liquid


[Pe...]

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Tried liquid again following the recipe.. 10mg clonazepam with 20ml vodka then add 80ml water for 10mg per 100ml solution.

 

Observations:

 

After allowing the solution to sit overnight there is yellow solid dust at the bottom of the container,  liquid appears clear, there is a thin white layer at the top.

 

Even after vigorous shaking my syringe gets a thick white coating as seen in the link below. My belief is this is the active ingredient sticking to the syringe making the solution weaker after many doses.

 

http://imgur.com/gallery/Idhfdsi

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Tried liquid again following the recipe.. 10mg clonazepam with 20ml vodka then add 80ml water for 10mg per 100ml solution.

 

Observations:

 

After allowing the solution to sit overnight there is yellow solid dust at the bottom of the container,  liquid appears clear, there is a thin white layer at the top.

 

Even after vigorous shaking my syringe gets a thick white coating as seen in the link below. My belief is this is the active ingredient sticking to the syringe making the solution weaker after many doses.

 

http://imgur.com/gallery/Idhfdsi

 

No, only a tiny percentage of your tablet is actually clonazepam  (probably less than 1%).  So the remaining 99% is inactive exceipients, some of which will be insoluble.  That's what you see settling out, or floating to the top.  The K is absolutely soluble in the vodka (alcohol), and the residue you see is NOT clonazepam.

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Peter, I worried about that with my "home made" valium/vodka/water brew also. The whitish residue I saw was what held the pill together -- the valium dissolved in the vodka.  I know it's unsettling, and a little hard to wrap your mind around, but your benzo really is dissolved.

 

My home brew carried me successfully to zero.

 

Hope this helps,

 

:smitten:

 

Katz

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Peter, I worried about that with my "home made" valium/vodka/water brew also. The whitish residue I saw was what held the pill together -- the valium dissolved in the vodka.  I know it's unsettling, and a little hard to wrap your mind around, but your benzo really is dissolved.

My home brew carried me successfully to zero.

 

Hope this helps,

 

:smitten:

 

Katz

 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: ;) ;)

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Tried liquid again following the recipe.. 10mg clonazepam with 20ml vodka then add 80ml water for 10mg per 100ml solution.

 

Observations:

 

After allowing the solution to sit overnight there is yellow solid dust at the bottom of the container,  liquid appears clear, there is a thin white layer at the top.

 

Even after vigorous shaking my syringe gets a thick white coating as seen in the link below. My belief is this is the active ingredient sticking to the syringe making the solution weaker after many doses.

 

http://imgur.com/gallery/Idhfdsi

 

Do you feel worse using this method?

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Peter, I worried about that with my "home made" valium/vodka/water brew also. The whitish residue I saw was what held the pill together -- the valium dissolved in the vodka.  I know it's unsettling, and a little hard to wrap your mind around, but your benzo really is dissolved.

 

My home brew carried me successfully to zero.

 

Hope this helps,

 

:smitten:

 

Katz

 

I wonder why so many people cant tolerate a transition to liquid if the drug is fully available?

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[b9...]

It's a very difficult question. I read that many didn't have any problems way back after this site started. Never the less, I think some things may induce people to have issues with it:

 

Psychosomatic- If you know many people have problems, psychologically you predispose yourself to have them too.

 

Digestive- This is where the drug actually comes apart and how your digestive system reacts to different media of the drug like in our case water, alcohol,pill fillings may produce different outcomes.

On the same note, I wonder what happens if you take your dose before or after meals. Everything is going to end up in your intestine one way or the other but the thing is that depending on what you eat is gonna take less or longer, example: A piece of meat take about 10 Hs. to leave your stomach. What if the drug get stuck with it for such a long time. Talking about interdose withdrawal right there...

 

I'm starting compound with Oraplus suspension and pills now after my reinstatement and I can already feel the change. I'm still evaluating going back to cut and hold. The main issue is that K doesn't come in low doses pills and that is a pain. Not even liquid form in US like in other countries.

 

I still think that determination to get rid of this poisons plus time and distraction will get us there.

 

Good luck!

 

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I'm starting compound with Oraplus suspension and pills now after my reinstatement and I can already feel the change. I'm still evaluating going back to cut and hold.

Micedana,

do you mind if i ask how you prepare your Oraplus Klonopin suspension?  :)

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I wonder why so many people cant tolerate a transition to liquid if the drug is fully available?

 

Possibly you cannot tolerate it due to your own history of rapid and large reductions in your dosage and other things. I would wager your CNS is overly sensitized to any changes. I would also wager, that "why so many others cannot tolerate a transition to liquid" has more to do with their individual past history, then it does with the transferring from one delivery method to another. Some of your previous posts before, to try and piece the puzzle together. Just my observation. Good luck to you.

40 yeay old male. Prescribed 4mg Kpin daily by the VA for anxiety and Crohns.  I never took 4mg thankfully,  but spent the last 15 years creeping up from as needed to a solid 2mg per day over the past 1.5 years. VA never questioned my script, just kept sending meds. Last time i saw the psych doc he scared the crap out of me.

Are benzos really that bad for you? 2 mg Kpin dosent seem like that high of a dose. I can certinly move to 1mg daily which i have done.

 

I attempted 0.5mg daily and after 3 days feel like hell....

 

So, I have clarity on 1mg, i understand NOT to increase doseage, is 1mg daily horrible?

This stuff really helps the Chrons more than anything

 

 

2 weeks ago I was made aware of the horrible long term side effects of Benzos. I am also a heavy alcohol drinker due to my social life style.

 

I've never craved Benzos or Alcohol, however I am now finding that I am physically dependent on both. I hear they act almost the same on the body.

 

I Immediately weaned Clonazepam to .75 daily and Alcohol to 1 beer per day......I'm feeling it :-\

 

After about a week on this regimen I have stabilized but things are a little rough.

 

I take 0.5 mg clonazepam at night for sleep and 0.25mg at 3pm only because I start getting an incredible headache and involuntary body twitches in my hands and feet. I drink 1 beer at night as the headache gets worse until I take 0.5mg clonazepam before bed.

 

 

Although not fun,  I can deal with the current pain if it means getting off these drugs. I don't want to push any further as I feel I've gone quick enough so far.

 

How long can I expect the headaches and extremity twitches?? I assume my next step would be to stop the beer if the physical symptoms subside..

 

Thanks!

 

 

I was having a miserable time at .75 after weeks of holding. I was tapering very quickly and felt miserable.

 

Was going to increase K dosage but instead book Propranolol my physician gave me for anxiety. I was not experiencing anxiety but saw that some people had symptom relief with propranolol.

 

All I can say is wow! I'm still experiencing symptoms but was able to decrease K even more to 0.25mg. Been on

25 for 3 days and will hold for a while.

 

I feel about 75% better while on Propranolol but if I skip it those the symptoms come right back. This is too good to be true? Could propanolol be acting on my Gaba receptors and prolonging the withdrawals?

 

 

I weaned fast. Some will say too fast.

 

Bottom line is I went from 1.5Mg to .25mg in about 35 days.

 

At .50mg I introduced Propanol for symptoms.  Physical symptoms nearly vanished which allowed me to move to .25mg.

 

The catch++++

I am taking propanol 10mg 3 times per day. I did not take propanol as an experiment to see "where I was" with physical withdrawal.  I took a nap innthe afternoon and was woken by a barking dog going balistic.

I went immediately into debilitating panic and quickly .25 mg clonazepam under tongue which pulled me out.

 

Iam dependent on clonazapam or Propanol....I am wondering if i have just switched feom one poison to another??

 

If i have the choice of taking 1 of the 2 poison which is the lesser of 2 evils?

 

Liquid dosing.

 

Was doing really well on 0.4mg K. Decreased to 0.38mg 15 days ago and its kicking my ass.....How fast should K be weaned at this dose?

 

After 15 days Im wondering if I should hold on a little longer or increase  :(

 

I'll take it slower from here.

 

 

 

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I wonder why so many people cant tolerate a transition to liquid if the drug is fully available?

 

Possibly you cannot tolerate it due to your own history of rapid and large reductions in your dosage and other things. I would wager your CNS is overly sensitized to any changes. I would also wager, that "why so many others cannot tolerate a transition to liquid" has more to do with their individual past history, then it does with the transferring from one delivery method to another. Some of your previous posts before, to try and piece the puzzle together. Just my observation. Good luck to you.

 

 

 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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I wonder why so many people cant tolerate a transition to liquid if the drug is fully available?

 

Possibly you cannot tolerate it due to your own history of rapid and large reductions in your dosage and other things. I would wager your CNS is overly sensitized to any changes. I would also wager, that "why so many others cannot tolerate a transition to liquid" has more to do with their individual past history, then it does with the transferring from one delivery method to another. Some of your previous posts before, to try and piece the puzzle together. Just my observation. Good luck to you.

 

 

 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

This is conjecture. A liquid formulation is not necessarily equivalent to pills. In fact, it most likely is NOT equivalent to pills.

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I wonder why so many people cant tolerate a transition to liquid if the drug is fully available?

 

Possibly you cannot tolerate it due to your own history of rapid and large reductions in your dosage and other things. I would wager your CNS is overly sensitized to any changes. I would also wager, that "why so many others cannot tolerate a transition to liquid" has more to do with their individual past history, then it does with the transferring from one delivery method to another. Some of your previous posts before, to try and piece the puzzle together. Just my observation. Good luck to you.

 

 

 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

This is conjecture. A liquid formulation is not necessarily equivalent to pills. In fact, it most likely is NOT equivalent to pills.

 

...and this, of course, is conjecture!

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Yes, saying they are likely not equivalent is conjecture. But according to the process for drug approval in the US, a claim that liquid is equivalent to pills requires data to support the claim. Otherwise the claim is held as false.

 

And telling someone that it's their fault they can't switch over to liquid is not very nice. It may not be their fault at all.

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Yes, saying they are likely not equivalent is conjecture. But according to the process for drug approval in the US, a claim that liquid is equivalent to pills requires data to support the claim. Otherwise the claim is held as false.

 

And telling someone that it's their fault they can't switch over to liquid is not very nice. It may not be their fault at all.

 

Never said that, please document!

 

But I have said there are ussally other circumstances and variables to consider.  Pretty obvious, I think.

 

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Yes, saying they are likely not equivalent is conjecture. But according to the process for drug approval in the US, a claim that liquid is equivalent to pills requires data to support the claim. Otherwise the claim is held as false.

 

And telling someone that it's their fault they can't switch over to liquid is not very nice. It may not be their fault at all.

 

Never said that, please document!

 

But I have said there are ussally other circumstances and variables to consider.  Pretty obvious, I think.

 

 

The comment didn’t come from you, builder, no need to document. If you reread the thread you’ll see where it originated, although I took it as speculation as to why liquid was not well tolerated,, not as accusation or judgment.

 

Discussion of methods is good, let’s keep it civil. We’re all on the same rocking boat here.

 

 

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[b9...]

I'm starting compound with Oraplus suspension and pills now after my reinstatement and I can already feel the change. I'm still evaluating going back to cut and hold.

Micedana,

do you mind if i ask how you prepare your Oraplus Klonopin suspension?  :)

 

I use a cheap Mortar and peste both bought on amazon. A 100 ml glass cylinder for measurements and a 100 ml brown glass bottle with Self-Sealing Bottle Cap Syringe Insert.

The suspension is 0.1mg/ml ratio and I do a 50 ml batch. The insert cap is quite handy because you can take the bottle everywhere and won't spill. You have to buy it separately and be of the same bottle neck size.

 

-First, put  50 ml of Oraplus in the cilinder .

 

-Grind 10 x 0.5mg pills in the mortar. Make sure is a dusty consistency mix.

 

-Add 20 ml of Oraplus in the mortar. Stir well to form a paste. Then add another 10 ml. The paste should be liquid enough to start pouring it in the 100 ml bottle. 

 

-With the 20 ml left in the cylinder wash out any remaining drug still on the mortar.

 

I use a 100 ml bottle for the 50 ml suspension because it gives room to shake the suspension well. I could do 75 ml would last longer. It depends how large your dose is.

Ora plus suppose to last for 2 months. Glass instead of plastic is a plus to keep most of the drug for that period of time.

I'm using accord Clonazepan. It disintegrates very easy.

I'm at 0.375 mg and dose three times a day. Take 0.250 mg (half of the pill) before bed and 0.060 ml morning and afternoon.

I'm planing to stay on the same dose for another week. So far it's been kind of a roller coaster. May be need more time to get use to the liquid again.

I taper before the same way even using two different manufacturer drugs and I reach the end. The difference is that I was not that knowledgeable and may be that's why is working against me.

Hope it helps!

Miguel 

 

 

 

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I'm starting compound with Oraplus suspension and pills now after my reinstatement and I can already feel the change. I'm still evaluating going back to cut and hold.

Micedana,

do you mind if i ask how you prepare your Oraplus Klonopin suspension?  :)

 

I use a cheap Mortar and peste both bought on amazon. A 100 ml glass cylinder for measurements and a 100 ml brown glass bottle with Self-Sealing Bottle Cap Syringe Insert.

The suspension is 0.1mg/ml ratio and I do a 50 ml batch. The insert cap is quite handy because you can take the bottle everywhere and won't spill. You have to buy it separately and be of the same bottle neck size.

 

-First, put  50 ml of Oraplus in the cilinder .

 

-Grind 10 x 0.5mg pills in the mortar. Make sure is a dusty consistency mix.

 

-Add 20 ml of Oraplus in the mortar. Stir well to form a paste. Then add another 10 ml. The paste should be liquid enough to start pouring it in the 100 ml bottle. 

 

-With the 20 ml left in the cylinder wash out any remaining drug still on the mortar.

 

I use a 100 ml bottle for the 50 ml suspension because it gives room to shake the suspension well. I could do 75 ml would last longer. It depends how large your dose is.

Ora plus suppose to last for 2 months. Glass instead of plastic is a plus to keep most of the drug for that period of time.

I'm using accord Clonazepan. It disintegrates very easy.

I'm at 0.375 mg and dose three times a day. Take 0.250 mg (half of the pill) before bed and 0.060 ml morning and afternoon.

I'm planing to stay on the same dose for another week. So far it's been kind of a roller coaster. May be need more time to get use to the liquid again.

I taper before the same way even using two different manufacturer drugs and I reach the end. The difference is that I was not that knowledgeable and may be that's why is working against me.

Hope it helps!

Miguel

 

thank you kindly for outlining all your steps for me! :thumbsup:

 

i actually do the (almost) exact thing with my suspension for my other taper (seroquel) of course the amounts are different because it's a different drug and higher dosage.) but the mortar n pestle to a fine powder and adding the suspension agent until a paste and then using remainder of suspension premeasured to rinse the mortar n pestle to get all API from it into the bottle. i also use 100ml bottle, but use amber plastic instead.

 

on my benzo taper, i also use accord clonazepam and like you i use the .1mg =1ml ratio. i use a 100ml amber plastic pharmacy bottle (from amazon.com) with adaptor caps that i ordered special from medi-dose along with their metric only "NeoMed" 12 ml and 0.5ml syringes for measuring because they fit their adaptor cap openings precisely. (had several loose leaky fits trying other brands on amazon)

 

i'd like to use glass instead of plastic to hold my liquid mixtures and my daily doses, but after thinking it through, i decided to go with plastic, because if i drop a glass container i will be out tha tdose or several days doses of medicine, and on the benzo i don't have any surplus backup in case of that...so to avoid having to request more clonazepam pills, and risk being labelled as "drug seeking behaviour" in my dr's medical records and insurance company notes, i use plastic. just my personal risk vs benefits asessment for my situation. if i had the luxury of a backup supply of pills in case of "shrinkage" then i would probably go with glass.

 

Medi-dose sends free samples of everything so they are worth the money to me. i ordered more syringes than i am likely to use in one lifetime lol, but i was worried about running out so i ordered 100ct of each, as well as 100 ct. of the adaptor caps. their adaptor caps are reusable but i use a fresh one for each new batch. if i have leftovers when my 3 years (approximate) taper is finished, i'll sell or just donate them to another taperer.

 

sounds like you follow the compounding instructions on the bottle of Oraplus! i used that and the instructions from an online compounding pharmacist's site to prepare mine. but after the sticker shock of OraPlus, i discovered HUMCO Flavor Blend https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0773DL1XJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 HUMCO 8916001 Flavor Blend 16 oz, Shape

5.0 out of 5 stars  Price: $16.16 FREE One-Day which is just a cheaper but very nearly identical formula version of OraPlus that a pharmacist told me about. same cough syrupy taste.

 

i take my 3 daily doses in old plastic amber RX bottles with screw caps from my pharmacy that i labelled with time of day (8am, 4pm, midnite) and i mix each dose with a 50/50 mix of montmorency tart cherry juice extract and apple juice to mask the taste of the suspension agent. tart cherry juice has been found toaid in falling asleep and lessening anxiety if taken right before bed, so i figured it was worth a try. seems to work for me! and now i don't gag at the cough syrup cause the tart cherry and sweet apple covers it well. now that i'm used to the taste, i dilute the juice mix with some distilled h20 so it's less sugary.

 

thanks again, Miguel :)

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[b9...]

HI !nomoredrugsforme Thanks for sharing!  :smitten:

 

Yes, seems like what you are doing is quite the same method.

 

I use glass because I read that plastic may degrade the drug content after some time. In the link below they say that  no drug potency is lost in a PVC container as long as it is refrigerated at 4 deg centigrade (39 F). They don't specify what happens if the temperature is grater. But in your case I would do the same thing and more if you make your suspension more often. 

 

As far as the suspension brand, I called Humco asking for how long they guarantee their suspension vehicle and they told me no more than a month. Did the same with Oraplus and they said theirs last for 2 months following the conditions detailed in the bottle: 75 F ,dark placement etc.etc. I'm using the one that doesn't have any taste and I regretted. I'll probably get the Blend option with syrup flavor next time. Didn't want to put more stuff to the mix  :D

 

I'm very frustrated that I had to reinstate after a 10 month hard taper but I'm out five month in the current taper and hopefully will reach the end again.

 

Hope everything works for you!

 

Miguel

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23989441

 

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I wonder why so many people cant tolerate a transition to liquid if the drug is fully available?

 

Possibly you cannot tolerate it due to your own history of rapid and large reductions in your dosage and other things. I would wager your CNS is overly sensitized to any changes. I would also wager, that "why so many others cannot tolerate a transition to liquid" has more to do with their individual past history, then it does with the transferring from one delivery method to another. Some of your previous posts before, to try and piece the puzzle together. Just my observation. Good luck to you.

 

I wonder why so many people cant tolerate a transition to liquid if the drug is fully available?

 

Possibly you cannot tolerate it due to your own history of rapid and large reductions in your dosage and other things. I would wager your CNS is overly sensitized to any changes. I would also wager, that "why so many others cannot tolerate a transition to liquid" has more to do with their individual past history, then it does with the transferring from one delivery method to another. Some of your previous posts before, to try and piece the puzzle together. Just my observation. Good luck to you.

 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

OK. Both of you. Let's get one thing straight off the bat: what you are doing here is, in essence, victim blaming. 'It is not my method at fault, it your history of usage'. How thoughtless. How wrong. How thoroughly despicable.

 

If, as you both argue, making up a liquid using vodka or milk leads to a solution identical in properties to the pills from which it is made, how would Peter40's history make any difference when switching to a liquid? The change in circumstances here is switching to your methods.

 

This is why we require a discussional tone from members when engaging in these kinds of topics. If what you propose has not been verified via truly analogous laboratory testing and/or through double-blind trials, it is opinion. You are dressing up supposition as fact. And when the feedback does not fit your speculation, you attempt to blame the people making the report. I am appalled.

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Yes, saying they are likely not equivalent is conjecture. But according to the process for drug approval in the US, a claim that liquid is equivalent to pills requires data to support the claim. Otherwise the claim is held as false.

 

And telling someone that it's their fault they can't switch over to liquid is not very nice. It may not be their fault at all.

 

Ah. I see you beat me to it, NTDT. I'm just catching up after a couple of days of little Internet access.

 

Thank you. It needed to be said.

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There have been many I have seen that can NOT or has NOT been able to tolerate a liquid titration in any form, especially from Klonopin.  And these are people who did not seem to have a sensitive CNS.  Who knows why some do great and others not so much.  If it works for you, I say you should count it as an absolute blessing!!

 

NoMore.....I thought you were doing fine with the alcohol/water combo?  I guess that went downhill and you moved to Oraplus?

 

micedana - can you direct me to flavorless Humco?  I have issues with acidic things.  Micedana, it may actually also be the particular generic you had been using before versus now as well.  We are all so different but Accord was almost like Kool-Aid for me and this was before I was dependent, taking daily.  It was during intermittent usage.  Just a thought for you.....

 

 

 

 

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The comment didn’t come from you, builder, no need to document. If you reread the thread you’ll see where it originated, although I took it as speculation as to why liquid was not well tolerated,, not as accusation or judgment.

 

Discussion of methods is good, let’s keep it civil. We’re all on the same rocking boat here.

 

Correct interpretation of my post.

 

 

Edit: fixed quote box header.

~Colin.

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The comment didn’t come from you, builder, no need to document. If you reread the thread you’ll see where it originated, although I took it as speculation as to why liquid was not well tolerated,, not as accusation or judgment.

 

Discussion of methods is good, let’s keep it civil. We’re all on the same rocking boat here.

 

Correct interpretation of my post.

 

If it were me receiving your reply, I would not have interpreted it as such.  It would have made me feel as if I had done something wrong to facilitate a failed crossover.  Words project a different meaning for different people. Writing your message in blue conveys 'shouting' to me.  I do not wish for someone to 'wager' why my crossover failed.

 

pianogirl

 

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HI !nomoredrugsforme Thanks for sharing!  :smitten:

 

Yes, seems like what you are doing is quite the same method.

 

I use glass because I read that plastic may degrade the drug content after some time. In the link below they say that  no drug potency is lost in a PVC container as long as it is refrigerated at 4 deg centigrade (39 F). They don't specify what happens if the temperature is grater. But in your case I would do the same thing and more if you make your suspension more often. 

 

As far as the suspension brand, I called Humco asking for how long they guarantee their suspension vehicle and they told me no more than a month. Did the same with Oraplus and they said theirs last for 2 months following the conditions detailed in the bottle: 75 F ,dark placement etc.etc. I'm using the one that doesn't have any taste and I regretted. I'll probably get the Blend option with syrup flavor next time. Didn't want to put more stuff to the mix  :D

 

I'm very frustrated that I had to reinstate after a 10 month hard taper but I'm out five month in the current taper and hopefully will reach the end again.

 

Hope everything works for you!

 

Miguel

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23989441

 

hey Miguel ,

 

yes the mixed suspension HUMCO agent plus edicine is good at room temperature for at least 4 weeks. i was told by pharmacist (i also called HUMCO to ask but i trust the pharmacist more lol) that it technically lasts longer but in hot weather the "room temperature" goes higher so not to keep a suspension longer than a month. but i make my seroquel suspension for 13+ days, (it ends up lasting about 15 days of doses) and i make a different solution for my clonazepam currently. but if i do switch to a suspension for clonazepam, i'll only make 10 days at a time, the same amount of it that i currently make as a solution.

 

thanks for the link to the suspension of clonaz there!

 

don't feel too bad about the temporary reinstatement to regain stability, you're still making progress even if it's nonlinear :thumbsup: that's how this thing goes, as you already know.

 

cheers my friend

 

 

 

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I wonder why so many people cant tolerate a transition to liquid if the drug is fully available?

 

Possibly you cannot tolerate it due to your own history of rapid and large reductions in your dosage and other things. I would wager your CNS is overly sensitized to any changes. I would also wager, that "why so many others cannot tolerate a transition to liquid" has more to do with their individual past history, then it does with the transferring from one delivery method to another. Some of your previous posts before, to try and piece the puzzle together. Just my observation. Good luck to you.

 

I wonder why so many people cant tolerate a transition to liquid if the drug is fully available?

 

Possibly you cannot tolerate it due to your own history of rapid and large reductions in your dosage and other things. I would wager your CNS is overly sensitized to any changes. I would also wager, that "why so many others cannot tolerate a transition to liquid" has more to do with their individual past history, then it does with the transferring from one delivery method to another. Some of your previous posts before, to try and piece the puzzle together. Just my observation. Good luck to you.

 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

OK. Both of you. Let's get one thing straight off the bat: what you are doing here is, in essence, victim blaming. 'It is not my method at fault, it your history of usage'. How thoughtless. How wrong. How thoroughly despicable.

 

If, as you both argue, making up a liquid using vodka or milk leads to a solution identical in properties to the pills from which it is made, how would Peter40's history make any difference when switching to a liquid? The change in circumstances here is switching to your methods.

 

This is why we require a discussional tone from members when engaging in these kinds of topics. If what you propose has not been verified via truly analogous laboratory testing and/or through double-blind trials, it is opinion. You are dressing up supposition as fact. And when the feedback does not fit your speculation, you attempt to blame the people making the report. I am appalled.

 

i was thinking the same thing.

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