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Hi all,

 

I've just posted Version 1.0 of the Titration FAQs to this board (stickied/pinned and locked).

 

It is just intended to get the ball rolling - we'd really like some feedback for clarifications, elaborations or corrections, and suggestions for additional questions (and answers, if you have them).

 

Any comments or ideas?

 

Thanks.

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Hello Colin,

 

First of all, I want to thank you for Benzobuddies.org, it is a lifeline for me as it is for so many others!  When I first joined, I found the site most useful for technical tapering information, now I mainly participate in a small support group within the forum for "moral support". 

 

I started out with a "Direct Taper" but when my symptoms became intolerable I switched to "DLMT" and my symptoms significantly improved.  By necessity and choice I make my own solution by dissolving tablets in alcohol and adding water, a ratio of 1:2:8.  I plan to continue because it is working for me, despite unknowns you have covered in the new FAQs.

 

I found it slightly difficult to dig through Benzobuddies to find reliable sources for the details and math for DLMT.  Luckily I discovered two very helpful sources: Builder's and Jim Hawk's explanations.  It took quite a bit of studying, but thanks to them I learned and now have a confident understanding of how to proceed.

 

I think the main thing missing from the FAQs and from Benzobuddies in general are clear instructions of how to do the different titration methods or at least guidance of where to find the info.  It must be confusing for some new members to find reliable sources for the details of titration methods. When I joined 10 months ago, thankfully both moderators and members directed me to Builder and Jim Hawk's application.

 

I think you have done a good job in the FAQs version 1.0 covering the risks when making a "home-brew."  After reading these caveats, what do you think would be the best way for members to get the specific instructions they need if they still want to explore this method? Acknowledging of course, everyone needs to find their own best way to taper.

 

When these discussions and reformatting caught my attention I found it a little disconcerting. The debates, archiving of the Titration Plans and arguments against making one's own solution made me feel insecure about the method I've been using, even though it has been working. I do understand the need for caveats and to explain what is not scientifically proven. (But how much about any aspect of dependance and withdrawal methods of benzodiazepines has been studied?)  I think the way the unknowns about "home-brew" solutions are covered in the FAQs, it could discourage members when in many instances it might still be their best available option to try.

 

Many of us do not have access to oral solutions or compounding pharmacies not to mention supportive doctors or good health insurance. Once the caveats about "home-brews" have been given in the FAQs, maybe you could say something like: For those still wanting specific instructions for DLMT please read or ask questions in the Titration Plan section.  I hope members like Builder will continue to provide his invaluable support in that section. 

 

Thanks for accepting my feedback and considering my ideas.

 

Sincerely,

 

Luey

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hello Colin,

 

First of all, I want to thank you for Benzobuddies.org, it is a lifeline for me as it is for so many others!  When I first joined, I found the site most useful for technical tapering information, now I mainly participate in a small support group within the forum for "moral support".

 

Hi Luey,

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

I started out with a "Direct Taper" but when my symptoms became intolerable I switched to "DLMT" and my symptoms significantly improved.  By necessity and choice I make my own solution by dissolving tablets in alcohol and adding water, a ratio of 1:2:8.  I plan to continue because it is working for me, despite unknowns you have covered in the new FAQs.

 

Good. You should continue with whatever works for you.

 

I found it slightly difficult to dig through Benzobuddies to find reliable sources for the details and math for DLMT.  Luckily I discovered two very helpful sources: Builder's and Jim Hawk's explanations.  It took quite a bit of studying, but thanks to them I learned and now have a confident understanding of how to proceed.

 

Yes, this is one of the reasons driving the changes - they are only in progress. The only thing which has changed significantly so far the board structure.

 

I think the main thing missing from the FAQs and from Benzobuddies in general are clear instructions of how to do the different titration methods or at least guidance of where to find the info.  It must be confusing for some new members to find reliable sources for the details of titration methods. When I joined 10 months ago, thankfully both moderators and members directed me to Builder and Jim Hawk's application.

 

As for detail: that's not really the purpose of the FAQs. They are about providing a quick overview of the subject. What I envisage happening is that as we add other documents (and further FAQs), we will link to the detailed documents from individual FAQ answers. If the FAQs ended up as a long, dense document, I think few would read it.

 

I think you have done a good job in the FAQs version 1.0 covering the risks when making a "home-brew."  After reading these caveats, what do you think would be the best way for members to get the specific instructions they need if they still want to explore this method? Acknowledging of course, everyone needs to find their own best way to taper.

 

We hope and expect to have a more detailed titration document up soon, with more about the various options, the advantages, disadvantages and unknowns. Part of the problem we have with what has been happening is that far too often supposition is stated as fact; that various titration methods are claimed to be infallible, and the others unreliable. It is rather akin to a debate about which is the one true faith. At the end of day, people are modifying their medications; the creation of liquids and powders from prescription pills might be a viable option, but they are not truly analogous in their action (absorption profile and delivered dose). To claim otherwise ignores basic pharmacokinitics. This does not rule out these methods, but contrary to what is regularly (and emphatically) stated, there are differences and members deserve to know this. Those who promote these systems rely upon anecdote. That's OK to a degree (if it is acknowledged), but they also fail to take on board anecdotal evidence from those where the system failed. All we wish to do is provide better and more balanced information; it is then for individual members to decide what to do. I'm sure plenty of discussion will continue to take place around any proposed method. This is not about shutting down discussion; it is about providing a sensible framework. And, actually, this is totally in line with our very long established principles of avoiding 'prescriptive writing'. Surely the promotion of an untested method as infallible falls under these reasonable community standards.

 

When these discussions and reformatting caught my attention I found it a little disconcerting. The debates, archiving of the Titration Plans and arguments against making one's own solution made me feel insecure about the method I've been using, even though it has been working. I do understand the need for caveats and to explain what is not scientifically proven. (But how much about any aspect of dependance and withdrawal methods of benzodiazepines has been studied?)  I think the way the unknowns about "home-brew" solutions are covered in the FAQs, it could discourage members when in many instances it might still be their best available option to try.

 

I understand your concerns, but please try not to worry. If what you are doing works for you, there should be no need to change it. We just wish to add some balance and provide the best (and reliable) information there is available. And where this does not exist, state that it is unknown or that there are expectations for variable outcomes.

 

Pharmacokinetics and bioavailability are extremely well researched and understood. Their principles are applied to every prescription medicine developed. Yes, pharmacodynamics of benzodiazepines is less well understood that we would like, but that is not what we are addressing here.

 

I expect that we will beef-up some of the FAQs (a little) when we have better decided upon what information is reliable. The FAQs are really less than Version 1.0. I probably should have called it Version 0.7.

 

Many of us do not have access to oral solutions or compounding pharmacies not to mention supportive doctors or good health insurance. Once the caveats about "home-brews" have been given in the FAQs, maybe you could say something like: For those still wanting specific instructions for DLMT please read or ask questions in the Titration Plan section.  I hope members like Builder will continue to provide his invaluable support in that section.

 

Ah. You beat me to it: yes, I expect that the FAQs will provide several jumping-off points to other, more detailed documents.

 

Thanks for accepting my feedback and considering my ideas.

 

Sincerely,

 

Luey

 

And thank you for going to the trouble of detailing your concerns and for providing suggestions. It is much appreciated.

 

Colin.

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I liked the old way better, too many sub topics  now,  get's confusing , my latest post was moved , simplier is better,  should just have one place for taper, regardless of how it's done
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I liked the old way better, too many sub topics  now,  get's confusing , my latest post was moved , simplier is better,  should just have one place for taper, regardless of how it's done

 

There were always three taper boards. Or, at least since the early part of this decade.

 

Part of the reason for the reorganisation is that we now have all the taper and support sections in logical order. That is, likely order of use. So, start at the top, and work down. It just so happens that the top board (Taper Plans) has three sub-sections. So, in that sense, the new containing board replaces three: that's one as opposed to three sections. The new containing board (Taper Plans) will have content added soon, so that it is an even greater one-stop-shop (if that translates) for taper planning and support.

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However, if you are using a "home brew' liquid made with regular tablets, it is unknown if you are getting an accurate dose. Why? To our knowledge, none of the home brew liquids have been tested for homogeneity (we do not know if they are true solutions), potency, or stability over time.

 

Yes we do.  See Jouyban, et. al.  ::)

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However, if you are using a "home brew' liquid made with regular tablets, it is unknown if you are getting an accurate dose. Why? To our knowledge, none of the home brew liquids have been tested for homogeneity (we do not know if they are true solutions), potency, or stability over time.

 

Yes we do.  See Jouyban, et. al.  ::)

 

Who are you quoting there, builder?

 

Please provide a full citation for Jouyban, and I'll happily give it a once-over.

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Going to do builder a impromptu favor and list some sources for your reading pleasure, enjoy.

 

Solubility of chlordiazepoxide,diazepam,and lorazepam in ethanol+water mixtures at 303.2 K

https://kar.kent.ac.uk/29422/

 

Solubility of Benzodiazepines in Polyethylene Glycol 200 + Water Mixtures at 303.2 K

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/je900330p

 

Prediction of benzodiazepines solubility using different cosolvency models.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12164213

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Also, in reference to your FAQ #1:

 

Q: What is titration?

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_titration

 

"Drug titration is the process of adjusting the dose of a medication for the maximum benefit without adverse effects."

 

In the case of individuals wishing to withdraw from benzodiazepines, titration means making small reductions in dose with the goal of discontinuing the drug while minimizing withdrawal symptoms.

 

Incorrect in the definition of "titration."

 

Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/titration

 

Medical Definition of titration: a method or the process of determining the concentration of a dissolved substance in terms of the smallest amount of a reagent of known concentration required to bring about a given effect in reaction with a known volume of the test solution especially: the analytical process of successively adding from a burette measured amounts of a reagent to a known volume of a sample in solution or a known weight of a sample until a desired end point (as a color change) is reached

 

Taper definition. Source: https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/taper

 

taper (tā′pĕr)

To decrease in a gradual or progressive fashion the dosage of a medication or the intensity of another form of treatment.

 

 

You are wrong quite often, and the advise you give is frightening, would be best to stop while you are ahead. Wikipedia.org for sourcing? Wow, not surprising though. If you cannot get #1 correct, #2 - ? will be perpetually erroneous and unreliable. I will stay with the protocol I know works for me, not any nonsense you dole out. I sincerely hope that other members stick with the method that is working for them and wish them the best.

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This should probably be a different discussion, but those references are all behind paywalls and we can't evaluate the actual data.

 

I've seen solubility papers on benzos in ethanol/water mixtures, which of course I didn't save (arggh!). But I vaguely remember that the benzos aren't appreciably more soluble in 10% ethanol mixtures than they are in water alone.

 

Where is the data to say the benzo is still in solution after you add water to your ethanol pill mixture?

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Going to do builder a impromptu favor and list some sources for your reading pleasure, enjoy.

 

Solubility of chlordiazepoxide,diazepam,and lorazepam in ethanol+water mixtures at 303.2 K

https://kar.kent.ac.uk/29422/

 

Solubility of Benzodiazepines in Polyethylene Glycol 200 + Water Mixtures at 303.2 K

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/je900330p

 

Prediction of benzodiazepines solubility using different cosolvency models.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12164213

 

This should probably be a different discussion, but those references are all behind paywalls and we can't evaluate the actual data.

 

I've seen solubility papers on benzos in ethanol/water mixtures, which of course I didn't save (arggh!). But I vaguely remember that the benzos aren't appreciably more soluble in 10% ethanol mixtures than they are in water alone.

 

Where is the data to say the benzo is still in solution after you add water to your ethanol pill mixture?

 

Fear not, HopeToDoThis.

 

These studies are coming form the same group of researchers based in Iran, which builder referenced (Jouyban et al)

 

The goal of these studies was to develop a mathematical model for predicting drug solubility during drug molecule development.

 

The studies were conducted under controlled laboratory conditions.

 

The drug source was an API (Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient) not a regular tablet.

 

The temperature was controlled.

 

An automated stirring mechanism was used.

 

The lead researcher, Jouyban, is on record as stating that there is considerable error in his model and that the results should NOT be used for drug formulation.

 

I hope someone is able to supply more reliable citations. ::)

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Also, in reference to your FAQ #1:

 

Q: What is titration?

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_titration

 

"Drug titration is the process of adjusting the dose of a medication for the maximum benefit without adverse effects."

 

In the case of individuals wishing to withdraw from benzodiazepines, titration means making small reductions in dose with the goal of discontinuing the drug while minimizing withdrawal symptoms.

 

Incorrect in the definition of "titration."

 

Incorrect? Definitions will vary. But, OK. Carry on....

 

Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/titration

 

Medical Definition of titration: a method or the process of determining the concentration of a dissolved substance in terms of the smallest amount of a reagent of known concentration required to bring about a given effect in reaction with a known volume of the test solution especially: the analytical process of successively adding from a burette measured amounts of a reagent to a known volume of a sample in solution or a known weight of a sample until a desired end point (as a color change) is reached

 

You appear to have deliberately misquoted the above. The Merriam Webster definition you have cited and quoted is actually this (emphasis is mine):

 

Definition of titration: a method or process of determining the concentration of a dissolved substance in terms of the smallest amount of reagent of known concentration required to bring about a given effect in reaction with a known volume of the test solution

 

In your version of the quote, you alatered it to read: "Medical Definition of titration". Why did you do this? The dictionary definition from Merriam-Webster is actually for the general chemical definition of titration, not the medical definition. The medical definition is different. Did you think that no one - especially me - would not bother checking your reference?

 

Taper definition. Source: https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/taper

 

taper (tā′pĕr)

To decrease in a gradual or progressive fashion the dosage of a medication or the intensity of another form of treatment.

 

And your quote/reference, above, is a definition for 'medication taper', not titration.

 

Since 'titration' has become the common parlance within benzodiazepine withdrawal circles for creating a liquid (for the purposes of tapering), that's our starting point.

 

You are wrong quite often, and the advise you give is frightening, would be best to stop while you are ahead. Wikipedia.org for sourcing? Wow, not surprising though. If you cannot get #1 correct, #2 - ? will be perpetually erroneous and unreliable. I will stay with the protocol I know works for me, not any nonsense you dole out. I sincerely hope that other members stick with the method that is working for them and wish them the best.

 

Wikipedia has its uses. The referenced Wiki page is short, to the point, and is well referenced. BB is a peer-support forum, not a scientific journal. It OK to reference Wikipedia. Really.

 

I'd like to know what I have written that is actually wrong. I never claimed to have a definitive set of FAQs. On the contrary, I invited feedback and critique, and even described it as just Version 0.7 in my followup post. Your response is completely disingenuous, with doctored citations, and definitions for terms other then the one we are attempting to define in layman's terms for members.

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However, if you are using a "home brew' liquid made with regular tablets, it is unknown if you are getting an accurate dose. Why? To our knowledge, none of the home brew liquids have been tested for homogeneity (we do not know if they are true solutions), potency, or stability over time.

 

Yes we do.  See Jouyban, et. al.  ::)

 

Who are you quoting there, builder?

 

Please provide a full citation for Jouyban, and I'll happily give it a once-over.

 

If you started from an unbiased position (which you clearly do not), you wouldn't ask someone else to provide the resources to find the answers.  Jouyban is widely acknowledged as the leading authority/researcher on pharma solvency.  And if one really wanted to learn specifics about benzo (and other drugs) solvency, one would almost certainly encounter Jouyban, and the Jouyban-Acree model.

 

I won't do your research for you, and if you wish to ignore the references that Gerbera has given, then just for starters, go here, and scroll down to reply #37.  (Citations to support the data are included)

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97737.30

 

And you may want to check any high school level chemistry test that will confirm that 1) dissolution creates a uniformly distributed solution, and that the chemical nature of the solute is unchanged.

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Here is the link, again, and the whole page, just for you. Note the bold, no alteration were made. Your attempts at gaslighting are pathetic and border on narcissism. There's that saying, "every time you point a finger at someone, there are three pointing back at you." I will gladly address your inaccuracies tomorrow.

 

Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/titration

 

titration noun

ti·​tra·​tion | \ tī-ˈtrā-shən  \

Definition of titration

: a method or process of determining the concentration of a dissolved substance in terms of the smallest amount of reagent of known concentration required to bring about a given effect in reaction with a known volume of the test solution

Examples of titration in a Sentence

Recent Examples on the Web

 

While doctors consider a patient’s weight in some cases, weight is generally subsumed into larger considerations of therapeutic index and titration when determining the right dose for a patient.

— Richard Klasco, New York Times, "Should Doctors Consider Body Size When Prescribing Drugs?," 8 June 2018

And that precocious teenager who conducted brain cancer research, explored a cadaver and joyously completed her first successful titration (Google it) at UAB's summer programs for high-schoolers.

— Roy S. Johnson, AL.com, "Scientist who grew from Fairfield plants seeds, aspires to nurture others beyond STEM," 31 May 2017

These example sentences are selected automatically from various online news sources to reflect current usage of the word 'titration.' Views expressed in the examples do not represent the opinion of Merriam-Webster or its editors. Send us feedback.

 

See More

First Known Use of titration

circa 1859, in the meaning defined above

 

Learn More about titration

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Resources for titration

Dictionary Entries near titration

titrable

 

titrant

 

titrate

 

titration

 

titre

 

ti tree

 

titrimeter

 

Statistics for titration

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Top 40% of words

 

Time Traveler for titration The first known use of titration was circa 1859

See more words from the same year

 

More Definitions for titration

 

titration noun

 

ti·​tra·​tion | \ tī-ˈtrā-shən  \

 

Medical Definition of titration:

a method or the process of determining the concentration of a dissolved substance in terms of the smallest amount of a reagent of known concentration required to bring about a given effect in reaction with a known volume of the test solution

especially : the analytical process of successively adding from a burette measured amounts of a reagent to a known volume of a sample in solution or a known weight of a sample until a desired end point (as a color change) is reached

 

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If you started from an unbiased position (which you clearly do not), you wouldn't ask someone else to provide the resources to find the answers.  Jouyban is widely acknowledged as the leading authority/researcher on pharma solvency.  And if one really wanted to learn specifics about benzo (and other drugs) solvency, one would almost certainly encounter Jouyban, and the Jouyban-Acree model.

 

I won't do your research for you, and if you wish to ignore the references that Gerbera has given, then just for starters, go here, and scroll down to reply #37.  (Citations to support the data are included)

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97737.30

 

And you may want to check any high school level chemistry test that will confirm that 1) dissolution creates a uniformly distributed solution, and that the chemical nature of the solute is unchanged.

 

That chart is very good. But it shows that the benzos are practically insoluble in a 10% solution of ethanol in water, which is what your recommendation of 1 mg benzo + 2 mL ethanol + 8 mL water is. (Actually it's 8%, but 10% is close enough.)

 

Yes, a solution is uniformly distributed. The question is does a solution even form?

 

Also, it is not true that the chemical nature of a solute is unchanged in solution. Water is a very destructive chemical. The stability of many chemicals in water is not forever. I remember seeing a paper (which I didn't save arghhh!) on the stability of alprazolam in aqueous ethanol solutions. I don't remember the stability profile, but I seem to remember 75% recovery of alprazolam (with corresponding increase in degradation product with no biological activity) at 7 days at room temperature. Wish I had saved the paper.

 

Don't get me wrong, the liquid taper is working pretty well for me. I make mine totally differently. 2.5 mg xanax + 25 mL vodka + 475 mL water stored in a glass media bottle, daily dose is currently 80 mL. I do it this way so I can remove 1 mL (or 2 if I'm feeling adventurous) every day from a daily dose using just a graduated cylinder. I pack my dose in a plastic bottle which I take with me to work.

 

I think the point of the FAQ is, home brew liquids may or may not work for people. Some people swear by them. For others it's a nightmare that takes weeks of recovery.

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Here is the link, again, and the whole page, just for you. Note the bold, no alteration were made. Your attempts at gaslighting are pathetic and border on narcissism. There's that saying, "every time you point a finger at someone, there are three pointing back at you." I will gladly address your inaccuracies tomorrow.

 

Well, it would have been helpful for you to indicate that there is a second, almost identical definition offered at the bottom of the page, after all the guff in between. How many other people noticed that? In any case, I retract my comment about you deliberately misquoting the definition. But as I said before, different sources will provide differing definitions. And from my reading around, the definition of 'drug titration' at Merriam-Webster is poor. And what is the point of getting hung up in the precise definition of 'titration', when it is always used in bastardised form in respect to benzodiazepine withdrawal? Are you really suggesting that when a member comes to BB, we should explain that:

 

Medical Definition of titration: a method or the process of determining the concentration of a dissolved substance in terms of the smallest amount of a reagent of known concentration required to bring about a given effect in reaction with a known volume of the test solution especially: the analytical process of successively adding from a burette measured amounts of a reagent to a known volume of a sample in solution or a known weight of a sample until a desired end point (as a color change) is reached

 

How is that remotely helpful?

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That chart is very good. But it shows that the benzos are practically insoluble in a 10% solution of ethanol in water, which is what your recommendation of 1 mg benzo + 2 mL ethanol + 8 mL water is. (Actually it's 8%, but 10% is close enough.)

 

 

 

No, it shows the solubility of the 4 common benzos across the range of water/alcohol ratios.  And if you look at the X-axis, the .4  bar is essentially 80 proof vodka, (40% alcohol, and the balance almost all water.

 

And making the often-recommended 1:2:8 liquid benzo, there are actually 2 distinct processes.  the first is the dissolution, where 1mg of benzo is dissolved in the 40% pure  alcohol liquid.  Then once the the dissolution has taken place, then that solution can be diluted to a more convenient ratio of .1mg per ml.

 

Once the solute has been dissolved, further dilution does not alter the original solubility ratio.

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Once the solute has been dissolved, further dilution does not alter the original solubility ratio.

 

That is incorrect. Once dissolved, a solute can become "undissolved" by the addition of an appropriate solvent that the solute is not soluble in.

 

One may be able to dissolve the benzo in alcohol. But then one adds water, a solvent the benzo is not soluble in. This can cause the benzo to precipitate out of solution.

 

In fact, "recrystallization" is a common method of purification.

 

This is why people ask for the data.

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Once the solute has been dissolved, further dilution does not alter the original solubility ratio.

 

 

 

That is incorrect. Once dissolved, a solute can become "undissolved" by the addition of an appropriate solvent that the solute is not soluble in.

 

One may be able to dissolve the benzo in alcohol. But then one adds water, a solvent the benzo is not soluble in. This can cause the benzo to precipitate out of solution.

 

In fact, "recrystallization" is a common method of purification.

 

This is why people ask for the data.

 

This is quite confusing to me. Very interesting, but mind blowing. Does this mean that this method is not really good to use? What I am discerning is that once water is added there might not be any Benzo? I am just trying to understand so that I can taper down the best possible way. Many years ago I did the water taper after doing cut and hold. That is all we had back then. I am glad that this is being discussed so that we can make the best decision for each one of us to get off. Thanks so much.

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Once the solute has been dissolved, further dilution does not alter the original solubility ratio.

 

That is incorrect. Once dissolved, a solute can become "undissolved" by the addition of an appropriate solvent that the solute is not soluble in.

 

 

This is why people ask for the data.

 

But water is in fact a solvent for benzos, albeit a very poor one.  So further dilution with water actually (slightly)  improves the solubility. 

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Once the solute has been dissolved, further dilution does not alter the original solubility ratio.

 

That is incorrect. Once dissolved, a solute can become "undissolved" by the addition of an appropriate solvent that the solute is not soluble in.

 

 

This is why people ask for the data.

 

But water is in fact a solvent for benzos, albeit a very poor one.  So further dilution with water actually (slightly)  improves the solubility.

 

No, it doesn't. Look again at the graph:

 

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a54/Seth_Ghiorse/Benzosolubility_zps599343c1.jpg

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check out this reply from SG57 from an old thread regarding solubility :

  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97737.msg2077042#msg2077042

 

This is excellent (copied from the post quoted above):

Solubility of Benzos in Water (mg/ml)

Valium      .04

Ativan        .05

Librium      .11

Klonopin    .03

Xanax        .04

 

So my 0.005 mg/mL xanax solution (2.5 mg xanax + 25 mL alcohol + 475 mL water) looks to be OK.

 

Edit: Sorry, this post is just totally self-centered. I'm not trying to push my method of tapering. It works for me well-enough.

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Hi HTDT,

 

Do you know what effects the other ingredients from the ground tablets have upon solubility of the active ingredients? What if binding agents also end up as solutes?

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check out this reply from SG57 from an old thread regarding solubility :

  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97737.msg2077042#msg2077042

 

This is excellent (copied from the post quoted above):

Solubility of Benzos in Water (mg/ml)

Valium      .04

Ativan        .05

Librium      .11

Klonopin    .03

Xanax        .04

 

So my 0.005 mg/mL xanax solution (2.5 mg xanax + 25 mL alcohol + 475 mL water) looks to be OK.

 

Edit: Sorry, this post is just totally self-centered. I'm not trying to push my method of tapering. It works for me well-enough.

 

And I'm glad!  Actually, most folks can discontinue benzos with very little difficulty, and no real formal procedures.

 

But for for the few of us that fall outside of those parameters, I try to propose a protocol that will offer the greatest probablity of success.

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