Xanax to Klonopin Crossover PLEASE HELP

I recently told my doctor that the first cut from 2 mg to 1.75 mg of Xanax was causing me so many symptoms that I could barely function at work, especially the few hours leading up to a dose (interdose withdrawal). I kept mentioning the Ashton Manual and the need to crossover to something longer acting, and he agreed. I saw his partner last week and while I asked for Valium, I left with a prescription for Klonopin. I said three times I was worried that a ONE DAY crossover (stop Xanax tonight, take Klonopin tomorrow) seemed too fast, but he was in a hurry to leave the room and wouldn’t listen to me. I tried to say that I wanted to wean down the Xanax as I increased the Klonopin until I stabilized and could taper, but he wasn’t getting it and then he was gone. Now I find out that Klonopin comes in less mg doses than even Xanax! I went from 2 mg Xanax (I updosed from 1.75) to 2 mg Klonopin. They will not even read the material I bring to them about Ashton! So is my first cut on Klonopin going to be from 2 mg to 1.5? That seems like a lot! What do I do? This is the first day of my crossover and I am sooo anxious. The doctors barely give me the time of day since they have so many patients. The conversations all feel so rushed. I am so mad because they created this problem by putting me on these medications and prescribing them long term with no warnings. Can I taper off Klonopin somehow? I’ve asked about liquids but they don’t seem to want to help. My wife thinks I am worrying too much about this (she has been so kind and patient but probably can’t fathom the fear since I’ve been in withdrawal twice but she’s not on meds so hasn’t felt it herself) but I’m tired of trying and trying and feeling sick so much and ending up right back on my starting dose (the first doctor had me taper 2 mg of Xanax daily by taking them only every other day for two weeks and then stopping CT; I felt like death). Please someone tell me how to taper Klonopin and if this crossover was done right? My wife thinks I’m obsessing over it all (I probably am and she is very supportive but it’s a lot to ask for her to always take care of me like this), the doctors won’t listen, and I’m scared to tell friends because they will see this as a drug addiction and not the result of taking legally prescribed medications from a doctor as intended! I can’t stop crying. Help me!

Can anybody see this? Please help! I am so upset and scared and not feeling well already. If I keep bugging the doctors, they will get fed up and help me even less than they are. Is a one day crossover normal? Am I going to start having seizures? Is this the same as going CT? PLEASE HELP. I am desperate for hope.

Ok...I am not a Dr. and can only offer suggestions. Find conversion tables on the internet or via ashton manual and see the correlating dose of Klonopin to the dose of what you are on now. That is most important. How many times a day do you dose? I dose 4x a day (I am on Klonopin). I do a liquid titration-VERY slow because I HAVE to support myself. Anyway....crossing over can be tough-so do it in very small increments over at least 1-2 months. LISTEN to your body...forcing things won't make anything better. Get stable on new meds and hold for a month or two and then start very slow taper. If you want to cut, then get a jewelers scale via amazon, or get on You Tube and watch videos on water titration. Hope this helps. My 1st Dr. was awful...took me a couple tried before I found one that knew enough about benzos to really help. There is a great new documentary by Lisa Ling Benzo Crisis (you tube) that you can always try to get your Dr. to watch.

Thanks for your reply, but in my post I stated that the doctors had me crossover in one day. I don’t have extra pills to do this on my own and have to go by what the doctors prescribe me. I showed them the Ashton Manual (or tried to) and they wouldn’t look at it. I am asking if the crossover will be okay and how to taper Klonopin when the smallest pill it comes in is 0.5 mg. I understand listening to my body and taking things slow, but I don’t have a prescription pad. I’m asking about my current plan based on my doctor’s instructions. Like I said, I’m on Klonopin now so there’s no need to learn my equivalent dose. Per my bio line, I dose once a day.

Hi Cat Lady,

 

It would be good if you could shift to Valium v K, because you can taper in smaller amounts off Valium. This is my thoughts on it anyway. Could you get your partner to call and try to get Valium as a prescription if you do not feel up to calling?

 

In the meantime, you may want to hold at the dosage per your doctor while you decide on a plan. There's the Valium plan in the Ashton manual. There's also dry cutting pills and liquid titration (making the pills into a liquid so that the reductions can be super small if wanted). You can find a lot about the various plans here on BB.

 

Ultimately I went with titration. I'd been on Xanax a lot of years. I was feeling really bad when taking X and also while trying to taper. If was too rough for me to do without shifting to liquid where I could cut in the 1000s if I wanted. I was scared to do titration, but I read a lot about it beforehand. It was actually easy to do.

 

There are a number of ways to get where you want to be. You may not be able to find a doctor who understands what is going on though. I did not find such a doctor. I just did my own thing with a GP writing the X prescriptions. So, it can be done on your own if you have to do it.

 

I wish you well on your journey. You really can do this, although it may not feel like it at times. You can get support here. You'll want to read a lot and evaluate the information and decide what is best for you. Ask lots of questions.

 

 

My GP is the one prescribing, but I saw his boss last time who switched me to Klonopin in one day. I asked for Valium and showed them the Ashton Manual and expressed my concerns but I got no answers. I feel so sick so I sent my doctor a message telling him so and again asking if we can please follow the Ashton Protocol. He is the fourth doctor in that office I have tried to do this with and none of them have heard of the Manual or even wanted to look at my research. But I’m too scared to leave an office willing to try to work with me (sort of!) on this rather than trying a new doctor who may just CT me. Hopefully we can go back to Xanax, slowly c/o to Valium, and then taper at 10% or less per week. I just feel so not heard because they won’t listen to me or look at the research and they brush off my concerns about things moving too fast. They probably think I just want both benzos instead of the slow c/o recommended by Ashton. I feel like I’m a joke to them. Yet they gave me these demons. Now I’m stuck in a prison of benzos. I cry all the time because I don’t feel free. Hopefully the doctor will consider my plan. If not, I have to push through on K.

Hi Cat Lady,

 

It would be good if you could shift to Valium v K, because you can taper in smaller amounts off Valium. This is my thoughts on it anyway. Could you get your partner to call and try to get Valium as a prescription if you do not feel up to calling?

 

In the meantime, you may want to hold at the dosage per your doctor while you decide on a plan. There's the Valium plan in the Ashton manual. There's also dry cutting pills and liquid titration (making the pills into a liquid so that the reductions can be super small if wanted). You can find a lot about the various plans here on BB.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ultimately I went with titration. I'd been on Xanax a lot of years. I was feeling really bad when taking X and also while trying to taper. If was too rough for me to do without shifting to liquid where I could cut in the 1000s if I wanted. I was scared to do titration, but I read a lot about it beforehand. It was actually easy to do.

 

There are a number of ways to get where you want to be. You may not be able to find a doctor who understands what is going on though. I did not find such a doctor. I just did my own thing with a GP writing the X prescriptions. So, it can be done on your own if you have to do it.

 

I wish you well on your journey. You really can do this, although it may not feel like it at times. You can get support here. You'll want to read a lot and evaluate the information and decide what is best for you. Ask lots of questions.

 

 

Did you do the vodka taper, 20/80  or the other on with lots of water and same amount of vodka an pills, pleeas?

 

Hi Cathy,

 

I did the taper with vodka. It was 20/80 or 1:2:8. I'd mix 1 mg of Xanax with 2 ml of vodka and 8 ml water. Then, I'd draw out my daily dose and usually reduced a tiny bit each day and put that in a one cup measure to top off with water to one cup. The one cup measure with water added allowed me to dose multiple times per day and at the percentages that worked for me.

 

Over the taper, I made changes several times. I went from 3 doses per day on pills to 4 per day on liquid which was super easy to do. I reduced as much as .05 ml to as low as .01 per day. The flexibility was really helpful.

 

I was scared to try titration at the start, but it really was easy. I found it much easier than trying to cut pills accurately. The side effects were a lot more tolerable than any other method I tried.

 

I don't think any of this is easy, but it is possible to conquer the beast.

I’m new to this, so can someone fill me in on why you’d taper by mixing benzos with vodka? Alcohol and benzos are not usually supposed to be mixed, though the vodka you mentioned is a very small amount. I am confused.

The vodka is required for suspension. There are products for this purpose, but it's less expensive to use vodka and readily available. Milk can also be used, but it must be kept cold and does expire. In my case, I absolutely hate the taste of milk. Without suspension, the benzo would settle and not be even.

 

The amount of alcohol required is tiny. It's a small amount in theory. Once titrating, it becomes even clearer for many people how very little alcohol is needed. Seeing the amount is very eye opening. I completed my taper, and I have most of the bottle left in my cabinet.

 

I recently told my doctor that the first cut from 2 mg to 1.75 mg of Xanax was causing me so many symptoms that I could barely function at work, especially the few hours leading up to a dose (interdose withdrawal). I kept mentioning the Ashton Manual and the need to crossover to something longer acting, and he agreed. I saw his partner last week and while I asked for Valium, I left with a prescription for Klonopin. I said three times I was worried that a ONE DAY crossover (stop Xanax tonight, take Klonopin tomorrow) seemed too fast, but he was in a hurry to leave the room and wouldn’t listen to me. I tried to say that I wanted to wean down the Xanax as I increased the Klonopin until I stabilized and could taper, but he wasn’t getting it and then he was gone. Now I find out that Klonopin comes in less mg doses than even Xanax! I went from 2 mg Xanax (I updosed from 1.75) to 2 mg Klonopin. They will not even read the material I bring to them about Ashton! So is my first cut on Klonopin going to be from 2 mg to 1.5? That seems like a lot! What do I do? This is the first day of my crossover and I am sooo anxious. The doctors barely give me the time of day since they have so many patients. The conversations all feel so rushed. I am so mad because they created this problem by putting me on these medications and prescribing them long term with no warnings. Can I taper off Klonopin somehow? I’ve asked about liquids but they don’t seem to want to help. My wife thinks I am worrying too much about this (she has been so kind and patient but probably can’t fathom the fear since I’ve been in withdrawal twice but she’s not on meds so hasn’t felt it herself) but I’m tired of trying and trying and feeling sick so much and ending up right back on my starting dose (the first doctor had me taper 2 mg of Xanax daily by taking them only every other day for two weeks and then stopping CT; I felt like death). Please someone tell me how to taper Klonopin and if this crossover was done right? My wife thinks I’m obsessing over it all (I probably am and she is very supportive but it’s a lot to ask for her to always take care of me like this), the doctors won’t listen, and I’m scared to tell friends because they will see this as a drug addiction and not the result of taking legally prescribed medications from a doctor as intended! I can’t stop crying. Help me!

 

Hi there.

 

 

I know you’re worried but please calm down. I’ve been here a while, have been on all three drugs, and from my personal experience I hope I can help. Okay? You are right. Your wife might be thinking she’s helping but rarely do family members understand.

 

You have what my pdoc called, conveyer belt medicine. In and out in 10 minutes. I was lucky as I always had 50 minute sessions. Xanax has a very short half life, which is why you had interdose withdrawal. I had them as well despite dosing 5X a day. They are terrible and I don’t wish them on my worst enemy.

 

Since your doctor only allowed you a one day cross which imo is bad judgment, you might at first feel some pretty hefty withdrawal. The Xanax leaves as fast as it came, while the klonopin takes longer. But if you can manage to hold out a few days, I’m sure you’ll feel better. And that is a 25% drop, much too much.  We strive for 5% to 10% every week to 10 days. I In fact dropped about 5% a month for much of my taper.

 

I see that he won’t do the Valium, which is too bad. But klonopin isn’t the worst benzo to taper off. It’s just not my favorite. I might suggest that you print out a copy of the Ashton manual and show it to him. I’m not sure if he’ll take the time but you could highlight the Valium part. Also 2 mg Xanax equals 2 mg klonopin.

 

You might want to join the klonopin klub in the support section here. That’s all they talk about is that drug. I in fact did a dry micro taper off it and that certainly eases the withdrawal.  I don’t know if this is an option but can you find another doctor? It seems like a practice with multiple doctors who might even get bonuses for seeing extra patients each day. My first two took my nowhere but my third was an 😇. I’ll send you the link to the KK....

Here is your link.

 

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=163449.0

Thanks for the encouragement! I did message my doctor and tell him I was struggling with the crossover and AGAIN sent him the link to the Ashton Manual (which all 4 doctors so far have claimed they never heard of and they wouldn’t even discuss it with me or look at the information I brought), but my doctor said there is no way I could experience any Xanax withdrawal even on a one day crossover because I am on Klonopin now. Which I think is BS. One of the symptoms I mentioned was crying spells, which are not common for me. He said my symptoms are in no way related to the medication switch and if I still feel sick I should go to the ER. I cried and cried after getting that message. I feel dismissed and invalidated. They won’t read the research. They won’t listen to my ideas based on the research. And what on earth besides a sudden medication switch could cause symptoms including mood swings and crying spells (among physical symptoms like nausea and hot flashes) that would merit a visit to to ER?! I’m afraid if I keep pushing back, the clinic will fire me as a patient and then I will have to CT. I told all 4 doctors I was uncomfortable with the speed of a one day crossover and they all dismissed my concerns and said I’d be fine.

 

I usually start to feel peak symptoms around two weeks after a change, so I’m waiting to see how I feel. I still have some Xanax left, but IDK if it’s a good idea to add a little in to make the crossover more bearable if I get sick. I just can’t risk CT. I want to stabilize on the Klonopin somehow and wait until after my honeymoon in January to make cuts. We worked so hard and saved and waited three years for our first vacation, and I’m seeing it all slip away because I might be too sick to go or do anything there. It will break my sweet wife’s heart. Also, I was unemployed for three months and just started a new job a month ago. I’m already up for a promotion and I really love it there, so I want to keep symptoms bearable enough to work. It is a simple office job so I can deal with a little nausea or head spins but if I’m sweating and shaking, I’m sure I’ll just get labeled as an addict and fired. I don’t expect anyone to understand.

 

I am so scared. This is scarier for me than when I watched my mom die! And the doctors hold all the cards. They hold my life and future in their hands and won’t give me a seat at the table. I think they mean well, but they see me as difficult coming in with all of these articles and ideas like I’m the expert and they’re not. I try to be kind and patient with them, but they sweep in and out so quickly it’s barely a conversation. I wouldn’t even know how to find another doctor in my insurance network and there’s always the risk they will say no benzos at all and CT me.

 

All of this is blanketed in fear. If I can just get through this crossover, then I can breathe again and make a plan. I can handle a few days or even weeks of feeling crappy if I need to. I can suck it up and go to work. But will a one-day crossover give me full-blown CT Xanax withdrawal? Because that won’t go away in two weeks and I can’t seem to find information about a one day crossover anywhere. I just want to be reassured that it won’t be full withdrawal on the crossover. Please someone let me know if you have more thoughts on that. Talking to my therapist about this tomorrow and cried all day to my wife about this, too. I feel devastated about the whole situation. Can this crossover be done with minimal to moderate symptoms? What should I expect? And I will for sure check out that link, thank you!

This is also the top hospital in my state (I go to their associated clinic) and is nationally well-renowned.

How do they not know that a one day crossover is ridiculous?!

Cat lady

 

You are not bound to these doctors. You can go to other ones and ask them questions without your current ones knowing or kicking you out. You can interview other doctors and continue to see your current doctor group. It would be illegal for one doctor to tell another doctor that you had seen them without your written permission. They wouldn’t do that.

 

It sounds like these people are not listening to you. Maybe you will have to make do with them, maybe you can end up convincing them, but in the meantime, don’t think that you have to stay with them. It took me several visits with different doctors to find one who understood. Even if you can just find one that will stabilize you on your preferred  dose, could give you time to proceed cautiously.  It makes a big difference. Most doctors will list which insurances they take online and all will tell you over the phone. You can search psychology today’s website and search by area and insurance and type of doctor. You are not without options.

 

Most Doctors don’t know about tapering benzos.  You are just as likely to find a prescribing nurse who will be more helpful. It would be great to find a doctor who was knowledgeable, but many members here have simply found someone who will prescribe them, and then relied on this forum for support in devising a safe tapering regime. Though it is less than ideal, I know people who never even told their doctors they were tapering. They simply filled their prescriptions and then decreased with support from this group. This situation is not like other medical situations. As much as you can be in charge the safer and happier you will be. Keep asking questions.