What we say here, and how we say it, matters

I did not want to write that post. Something happened that made me do it, even knowing it might be misinterpreted. The posts that concerned me were Not made by protracted members. They were made by relative newcomers. They were not about terrible suffering or long healing time. They were opinions disguised as fact. That is all I was talking about. If I invalidated or attempted to silence anyone, then I failed in my attempt to try to protect us all. I know how much people have lost to this nightmare. I lost everything I truly valued 17 months ago. Why would I not believe you? Espy

 

I'm also sorry esperanza, I thought that could have been what you meant and then got confused by other posts that were made... maybe that is what some others were referring to also. In those cases, I agree. It's a bit ridiculous lately, but I guess who am I to judge and how would I stop them? But for the sake of discussion, yes I absolutely agree and so it is a good post to make for the reasons you stated. It's so annoying, and that's my opinion--I agree. I really hope you don't feel totally attacked and can rebound from this, I know you have been and are going through an incredible amount too. So sorry Espy, a hug from me (only if it's welcome.) Hope the day gets better, or if it's evening then hope it's a better evening and day tomorrow.

I like the sentiment here a lot. I think it is important for those who are scared of these permanent damage threads to understand what even people like Ashton meant by this. She did not mean acute withdrawal forever. To put this in context anyone  who has ever been physically injured in life understands his. If you break your leg, it heals. It heals BUT there is permanent damage. By this I mean, it heals and you can walk again but sometimes when it rains you feel some slight discomfort. That is what we are talking about here. You would!’t amputate your leg and give up all hope of walking again because of the prognosis of occasional slight discomfort when it rains! I think people here these things and because of our fragile state in severe withdrawal we hear and think the worst.

 

Most of us will heal one hundred percent. The ones that Ashton said may not will have the equivalent of the mild discomfort of an old forgotten injury that doesn’t affect your life in any way.

 

Please hang in there everyone. All wounds heal!

 

No one needs to apologize to me. I am in this hell too. We are all facing more than any human being should ever have to. You are all part of my family. I am not hurt. This was never about me. I send you all my love. Espy

Good discussion and a much needed one.

 

We have a lot of new members from the Lisa Ling special. The newbies will take awhile to settle in, to learn the established guidelines and find their ‘group’.

 

They will also take our example. We all need to ask ourselves what that example will be.

 

Do we scold and throw rules and dos and don’ts at them or do we gently guide them?

Do they need to know right off the bat they may have a long and/or complicated recovery or to take it as it comes?

 

The team is looking at ‘tone’ as well. It has changed, perhaps due to social media, perhaps societal changes...we don’t know either, but we are experiencing a high incidence of uncalled-for and unsupportive posts. They don’t all come from the newbies, but some of the newbies will take on the tone they are receiving from established members.

 

This is a good time to think about the tone we set.

 

Are we still this: http://mazeguy.net/romantic/grouphug.gif or are we this when supporting others? 

I’ve just come from a year away from the forum and I see a lot more of the latter than I used to.

 

Our purpose here is support.

 

http://mazeguy.net/romantic/grouphug.gif

IDK but I have a sense that the OP is talking about people who are creating unnecessary drama about this dramatic situation, not trying to tell us how to speak when we talk about how we're doing.

 

The thing is, who is to say what is "unnecessary drama"? If some people had their way, certain subjects would be off limits. Does everyone benefit if we limit the discussion to only things that can't upset the most sensitive people? I think not.

 

It seems to me that a lot of these types of threads are started by people who are early in the process who are scared and trying to seek answers. Protracted people are familiar with the true extent of the damage these drugs can do but most of us still agree that despite the fact that this can last a very long time that it is possible to heal and that the vast majority of people continue to improve over time, and most of us are pretty good about providing some encouragement by expressing this opinion whenever the subject does come up.

 

 

 

Many people seem to have lost their manners, their sense of caring for others who might just feel WORSE than you.

 

Where are the manners and caring for people who have been dealing with painful, debilitating symptoms for much LONGER than others? This works both ways.

 

If you are in the unfortunate position of still being sick after a few years off you have to deal with the added insult of denial coming directly from the only source of support you have- the benzo community. Then on top of that you are made to feel like you need to shut up or go away because you are scaring people.

 

Imagine how that feels.

 

People are allowed their opinions and if you done care for them click off and go somewhere else.

 

Except when your opinions are scary?

 

When I managed (after many wrong turns) to find BB my world began to turn around, slowly but surely. I got my REAL education about benzos here.

 

A "real" education about benzos includes the possibility of protracted symptoms and some other things that I won't mention because they might be considered "too scary".

 

There are people on the protracted board who are very upset because they feel like they have been lied to or misled about the possible protracted nature of this illness. They feel like they made poor decisions based upon the false hope that everyone heals within a year or two, or whatever.

 

Whenever this subject comes up another thing that is never mentioned is the fact that if we sugarcoat the truth about these drugs that's just more people who will never know how bad it can be when they are first prescribed these drugs. If the public truly understood what these drugs can do to the human body prescriptions would undoubtedly plummet and the problem would be mostly solved.

 

If all you do is brood about it and feel angry, scared, helpless, you will NOT heal as well as someone who forces themselves to remain optimistic no matter what. Call it faking, call it whatever you like, but this stuff really does work and I am living proof of that.

 

This is easy to say when you are completely healed.

 

Here on BB it is so important that we all try to upport each other, even if we don't agree on everything. You have a right to YOUR opinions, so does Espey, and so do I. They ARE just opinions, not written in stone.

 

The things is, this thread seems to be about people not having the right to express certain opinions or even lay out facts, if they are deemed to be triggering by some.

 

I give this two thumbs up too.

No one needs to apologize to me. I am in this hell too. We are all facing more than any human being should ever have to. You are all part of my family. I am not hurt. This was never about me. I send you all my love. Espy

 

Thanks Espy, I understand.

For those of us in Benzo world, hope is oxygen. Hope is what makes us sign up to fight another five minutes, another hour, another day. We don’t know when our individual wars will end, but we have to believe that they will. There is a fine line between the right to speak ones truth and the rights of others to make it safely to the other side. This forum is a serious place. Lives are in all our hands. We are not social media. Arguments about whether or not everyone heals are not the same as the political ranting back and forth on Twitter. There are consequences. If you have had the experience of responding to a member in crisis, I think you will agree that this type of conversation can be very dangerous. We all have fears, and do need to express them and ask for support. But, we cannot speak about our fears as if they were facts. I have been a member since summer 2018. Over the past few months, I have noticed more and more posts that begin with a Doomesday thesis statement, followed by cherry picked and questionable supporting evidence. If someone is claiming expertise on magnesium, well, we will survive. What I am talking about is the kind of statement that kills hope. Not everybody heals, permanent damage, Ashton said so (read that more carefully). Someone is reading what we write. We don’t know who they are, or what they are facing. Please, when you post about those fears that plague us all, choose your words with them in mind. It is so much safer, and honest, to say that you are afraid that not everyone heals, rather than that you have concluded. We all are good people and no one wants to do harm. I am proud to be a member of this community. And, I am so very grateful to all of you. Espy

 

I wrote a reply to this thread this morning but it isn't showing up. I guess tech troubles on BB are afoot since several other things are "off."

Espys original post needs to be re-read, as it seems that some people mis-read it or assumed something far from what she was trying to say.

There is an old song with the words "there is a thin line between love and hate." Old soul song that I always loved because it sure is true. And it applies to the BB I truly have loved, since BB saved my very life. Nope, I am not some Bible thumping fool. I nearly died due to my enormous benzo abuse and if I had not found BB I would now be VERY dead,. BB saved my life by guiding me and teaching me and giving me this incredible lifeline to hold onto.

As espy said, all of us are decent people. We don't set out to hurt others, but words can and DO hurt, especially someone still in BWD and feeling weak, unsure and terrified. We older members play a really special role in this, as only we can support these members and give them hope. If WE focus on negatives, and not the positives, we are not helping anyone, including US.  No matter how far out you are, there is always further "tweaking" and learning to do. Once you heal from benzos, you still have the original problems and hurts that led you to take benzos. Getting through benzo wd is only the FIRST step in your journey.

"This forum is a serious place. Lives are in our hands" is priceless, and I thank you espy for saying this as it is the utter truth and one some may forget when they are being consumed by 'benzo rage" or benzo depression or whatever. Benzo wd CAN lead one to consider self harm, so everyone on BB has to be super careful what words or messages they post. You just do not know how someone in the throes of that sort of agony will read what you say. Benzo wd is really difficult for some, so we have to be able to depend on others here for support. If you ask for help and are met with negative, scary responses (Doomsday stuff), or non supportive help, it wont help a bit and will; most likely make it worse. We are all responsible for each other. Differing opinions is fine but don't shoot down someone with an opinion different from you. Most people form their pinions based on what they have seen and learn. Give the respect to have differing opinions, please.

 

All of our posts need too reflect the basic mission and principals of BB. Gentle support, speak opinions freely but don't claim they are true, as no one really knows much about bwd. Offer positive thoughts and responses no matter what. I see us as this large network of people who only have written words to depend on and that makes it easy to construe things wrong. Always assume that the writer meant well, because you just do not know. Every single one of us deserves to be respected and cared for, even if we don't always see eye to eye.

Love you all no matter what.

east

 

For those of us in Benzo world, hope is oxygen. Hope is what makes us sign up to fight another five minutes, another hour, another day. We don’t know when our individual wars will end, but we have to believe that they will. There is a fine line between the right to speak ones truth and the rights of others to make it safely to the other side. This forum is a serious place. Lives are in all our hands. We are not social media. Arguments about whether or not everyone heals are not the same as the political ranting back and forth on Twitter. There are consequences. If you have had the experience of responding to a member in crisis, I think you will agree that this type of conversation can be very dangerous. We all have fears, and do need to express them and ask for support. But, we cannot speak about our fears as if they were facts. I have been a member since summer 2018. Over the past few months, I have noticed more and more posts that begin with a Doomesday thesis statement, followed by cherry picked and questionable supporting evidence. If someone is claiming expertise on magnesium, well, we will survive. What I am talking about is the kind of statement that kills hope. Not everybody heals, permanent damage, Ashton said so (read that more carefully). Someone is reading what we write. We don’t know who they are, or what they are facing. Please, when you post about those fears that plague us all, choose your words with them in mind. It is so much safer, and honest, to say that you are afraid that not everyone heals, rather than that you have concluded. We all are good people and no one wants to do harm. I am proud to be a member of this community. And, I am so very grateful to all of you. Espy

 

I wrote a reply to this thread this morning but it isn't showing up. I guess tech troubles on BB are afoot since several other things are "off."

Espys original post needs to be re-read, as it seems that some people mis-read it or assumed something far from what she was trying to say.

There is an old song with the words "there is a thin line between love and hate." Old soul song that I always loved because it sure is true. And it applies to the BB I truly have loved, since BB saved my very life. Nope, I am not some Bible thumping fool. I nearly died due to my enormous benzo abuse and if I had not found BB I would now be VERY dead,. BB saved my life by guiding me and teaching me and giving me this incredible lifeline to hold onto.

As espy said, all of us are decent people. We don't set out to hurt others, but words can and DO hurt, especially someone still in BWD and feeling weak, unsure and terrified. We older members play a really special role in this, as only we can support these members and give them hope. If WE focus on negatives, and not the positives, we are not helping anyone, including US.  No matter how far out you are, there is always further "tweaking" and learning to do. Once you heal from benzos, you still have the original problems and hurts that led you to take benzos. Getting through benzo wd is only the FIRST step in your journey.

"This forum is a serious place. Lives are in our hands" is priceless, and I thank you espy for saying this as it is the utter truth and one some may forget when they are being consumed by 'benzo rage" or benzo depression or whatever. Benzo wd CAN lead one to consider self harm, so everyone on BB has to be super careful what words or messages they post. You just do not know how someone in the throes of that sort of agony will read what you say. Benzo wd is really difficult for some, so we have to be able to depend on others here for support. If you ask for help and are met with negative, scary responses (Doomsday stuff), or non supportive help, it wont help a bit and will; most likely make it worse. We are all responsible for each other. Differing opinions is fine but don't shoot down someone with an opinion different from you. Most people form their pinions based on what they have seen and learn. Give the respect to have differing opinions, please.

 

All of our posts need too reflect the basic mission and principals of BB. Gentle support, speak opinions freely but don't claim they are true, as no one really knows much about bwd. Offer positive thoughts and responses no matter what. I see us as this large network of people who only have written words to depend on and that makes it easy to construe things wrong. Always assume that the writer meant well, because you just do not know. Every single one of us deserves to be respected and cared for, even if we don't always see eye to eye.

Love you all no matter what.

east

 

I agree, but vulnerable people just get hurt by anything. Speaking from myself. I was getting a little ouch moment reading your words that you only need to stay positive and do anything for healing in order to be healed. I was wondering, well I DID that, STILL DOING that. So its my fault that I am not healed yet?!

I understood what you wanted to say, but at the same time it hit me. Then its up to me, how to react. With anger, or explanations or whatever.

Good discussion and a much needed one.

 

We have a lot of new members from the Lisa Ling special. The newbies will take awhile to settle in, to learn the established guidelines and find their ‘group’.

 

They will also take our example. We all need to ask ourselves what that example will be.

 

Do we scold and throw rules and dos and don’ts at them or do we gently guide them?

Do they need to know right off the bat they may have a long and/or complicated recovery or to take it as it comes?

 

The team is looking at ‘tone’ as well. It has changed, perhaps due to social media, perhaps societal changes...we don’t know either, but we are experiencing a high incidence of uncalled-for and unsupportive posts. They don’t all come from the newbies, but some of the newbies will take on the tone they are receiving from established members.

 

This is a good time to think about the tone we set.

 

Are we still this: http://mazeguy.net/romantic/grouphug.gif or are we this when supporting others? 

I’ve just come from a year away from the forum and I see a lot more of the latter than I used to.

 

Our purpose here is support.

 

http://mazeguy.net/romantic/grouphug.gif

  Excellent post Challis well said.X

Challis - Beautifully said. I had also been away, and when I returned I noticed the change you mention as well.

 

There are members here who always reach out with hope and kindness, despite their serious concerns about their own ongoing symptoms -- whether 'protracted' or not. It's not about certain topics being off limits, but the spirit in which they're expressed. Not so much a case of 'positive' or 'negative' -- but of empathy, support, and mindfulness. And that goes for both sides, 'newbies' and 'protracted'.

 

When we come from a place of fear (or victimization or bitterness), we inevitably project that fear. And the result is always the same: division. So, do we want to come from a place of fear, or compassion?

 

FloridaGuy, you wrote: 'There are people on the protracted board who are very upset because they feel like they have been lied to or misled about the possible protracted nature of this illness. They feel like they made poor decisions based upon the false hope that everyone heals within a year or two, or whatever.'

 

This is interesting to me, because I've never had the impression that most BB members are unaware of the possibility of symptoms lasting longer (in some cases, much longer) than the 'average' of, say, 18 months (or whatever). I've never read a false promise anywhere that 'everyone heals with a year or two'. Logic dictates that there will always be outliers. This doesn't mean that they won't vastly improve or that there isn't real hope.

 

 

I think SOME of what happened on this particular thread is Internet Butt-Hurt.  It's rampant all over the internet.  It happens because we only have the written word to go by and not the person's facial expression or tone of voice.  If you want to witness it fully, go to a political site.  NOOO.. don't do that! 

 

I'm a relative newbie on this site and at first, I thought she might have been talking about something I said as fact without proof.  I literally looked back at all my posts before it dawned on me that she was, in no way, talking about me.  The only thing I could come up with was that I'd said several times that potassium and magnesium/calcium fixed my muscle twitchies.  Is that obsessive or what?  Checking my posts?  Dang idjit.    Classic Internet Butt-Hurt on my part.

 

So.. anyway.. take a deep breath.. realize that she wasn't talking about one person or one thing... just a thought about tone.  That's what I finally decided, anyway. 

 

Right now, this wonderful place is your family.  I consider everyone here as my family.  They understand what I went thru in ways that nobody else can.  Not my beloved husband or sister.  Much as they wanted to at the time I was in the throes of it... they really couldn't.    BUT, there isn't a single person here that wouldn't know instantly.. and have compassion.. and occasionally a really good tip.  And, yes.. I'm gonna keep talking about 'belief' and 'hope'.  I'm Irish.  Ya can't hush us up when we're on a roll. 

 

Love you precious people,

Libs

There are members here who always reach out with hope and kindness, despite their serious concerns about their own ongoing symptoms -- whether 'protracted' or not. It's not about certain topics being off limits, but the spirit in which they're expressed. Not so much a case of 'positive' or 'negative' -- but of empathy, support, and mindfulness. And that goes for both sides, 'newbies' and 'protracted'.

 

I haven't seen to many mean spirited posts. Usually when someone posts something "scary" it is out of fear. They aren't trying to get a rise out of people, they are genuinely concerned.

 

FloridaGuy, you wrote: 'There are people on the protracted board who are very upset because they feel like they have been lied to or misled about the possible protracted nature of this illness. They feel like they made poor decisions based upon the false hope that everyone heals within a year or two, or whatever.'

 

This is interesting to me, because I've never had the impression that most BB members are unaware of the possibility of symptoms lasting longer (in some cases, much longer) than the 'average' of, say, 18 months (or whatever). I've never read a false promise anywhere that 'everyone heals with a year or two'. Logic dictates that there will always be outliers. This doesn't mean that they won't vastly improve or that there isn't real hope.

 

Things have changed here since I first joined almost 9 years ago. There wasn't a protracted board back then and people who were still sick after several years off were explicitly or implicitly discouraged from participating so as not to scare people.

 

 

Good discussion and a much needed one.

 

We have a lot of new members from the Lisa Ling special. The newbies will take awhile to settle in, to learn the established guidelines and find their ‘group’.

 

They will also take our example. We all need to ask ourselves what that example will be.

 

Do we scold and throw rules and dos and don’ts at them or do we gently guide them?

Do they need to know right off the bat they may have a long and/or complicated recovery or to take it as it comes?

 

The team is looking at ‘tone’ as well. It has changed, perhaps due to social media, perhaps societal changes...we don’t know either, but we are experiencing a high incidence of uncalled-for and unsupportive posts. They don’t all come from the newbies, but some of the newbies will take on the tone they are receiving from established members.

 

This is a good time to think about the tone we set.

 

Are we still this: http://mazeguy.net/romantic/grouphug.gif or are we this when supporting others? 

I’ve just come from a year away from the forum and I see a lot more of the latter than I used to.

 

Our purpose here is support.

 

http://mazeguy.net/romantic/grouphug.gif

 

Since you asked, I believe everyone should know right off the bat that benzo dependent people are likely to have long and difficult symptoms when they start to withdraw.

 

It's called informed consent and IMHO truthfulness is the right thing to do. 

Libs, I really did LOL reading your amazing post. I could relate to all of it. Back when I was a newbie I constantly thought people were referring to me, as my own wd symptoms were so awful. Took me several months to get it that almost everyone ON this forum felt just as bad. Was I a bit paranoid? Oh yes I was. Benzo wd does that to you. Distorts your perceptions and nothing seems normal to you yet. You stumble along hoping to find answers.

 

FiAddendum, believe me the Mods here know quite well that benzo wd causes some awful symptoms and can wreck havoc on one's life. Our Mods ARE benzo survivors! BB never presents itself as knowing the complete and utter truth about benzos or bwd. For all of us its guessing, as in this entire world, NO ONE really knows the complete truth. It has not been studied enough and may never be. BB is a source of ideas, suggestions, mild advice, on what worked for this person or that person. BB tries to keep "factual statements" under control since they simply cannot be proven. All are guesses. ALL of us have opinions, that's normal human behavior. But we try not to present them as "fact." The only are opinions.

Hope this makes sense. Long day and this little old lady is tired.

east (Annie)

Libs, I really did LOL reading your amazing post. I could relate to all of it. Back when I was a newbie I constantly thought people were referring to me, as my own wd symptoms were so awful. Took me several months to get it that almost everyone ON this forum felt just as bad. Was I a bit paranoid? Oh yes I was. Benzo wd does that to you. Distorts your perceptions and nothing seems normal to you yet. You stumble along hoping to find answers.

 

FiAddendum, believe me the Mods here know quite well that benzo wd causes some awful symptoms and can wreck havoc on one's life. Our Mods ARE benzo survivors! BB never presents itself as knowing the complete and utter truth about benzos or bwd. For all of us its guessing, as in this entire world, NO ONE really knows the complete truth. It has not been studied enough and may never be. BB is a source of ideas, suggestions, mild advice, on what worked for this person or that person. BB tries to keep "factual statements" under control since they simply cannot be proven. All are guesses. ALL of us have opinions, that's normal human behavior. But we try not to present them as "fact." The only are opinions.

Hope this makes sense. Long day and this little old lady is tired.

east (Annie)

 

East, Challiss99 asked a question and i gave my opinion. Unless she asked a rhetorical question I believe that is an acceptable response, don't you?

Libs, I really did LOL reading your amazing post. I could relate to all of it. Back when I was a newbie I constantly thought people were referring to me, as my own wd symptoms were so awful. Took me several months to get it that almost everyone ON this forum felt just as bad. Was I a bit paranoid? Oh yes I was. Benzo wd does that to you. Distorts your perceptions and nothing seems normal to you yet. You stumble along hoping to find answers.

 

FiAddendum, believe me the Mods here know quite well that benzo wd causes some awful symptoms and can wreck havoc on one's life. Our Mods ARE benzo survivors! BB never presents itself as knowing the complete and utter truth about benzos or bwd. For all of us its guessing, as in this entire world, NO ONE really knows the complete truth. It has not been studied enough and may never be. BB is a source of ideas, suggestions, mild advice, on what worked for this person or that person. BB tries to keep "factual statements" under control since they simply cannot be proven. All are guesses. ALL of us have opinions, that's normal human behavior. But we try not to present them as "fact." The only are opinions.

Hope this makes sense. Long day and this little old lady is tired.

east (Annie)

 

  *small bow*  I don't even have withdrawal symptoms to blame it on any more.  I'm just an idjit!  heh

 

Libs

 

I haven't seen to many mean spirited posts. Usually when someone posts something "scary" it is out of fear. They aren't trying to get a rise out of people, they are genuinely concerned.

 

 

Things have changed here since I first joined almost 9 years ago. There wasn't a protracted board back then and people who were still sick after several years off were explicitly or implicitly discouraged from participating so as not to scare people.

 

Different perspectives, many valid insights on this thread.... FG, I appreciate your response. We are in agreement, basically.

 

People react from fear when they don't understand something, like animals react from fear. We can, however (on both sides of the 'divide'), learn to be mindful of how we phrase our concerns/fears - of their effect on others. That can be very difficult in withdrawal. (I've made various posts myself that I regretted afterwards.) That doesn't absolve any of us from trying. Or from being kind.

 

As for discouraging 'protracted' members from participating - again, the fear thing. When we interact with people - here or in the outside world - we'll get discouraging, thoughtless comments (based on fear or ignorance), especially if we're still having symptoms after an extended period. I had that for 7 years during a nasty 'protracted' w/d from ADs, and now again at 17 months off benzos. And nope, no one thinks 'protracted' can happen to them. Until it does.

 

Each recovery trajectory is unique. And sometimes, when we've been struggling for a very long time, we project our fears/anger and anticipate rejection - and try to pre-empt it by distancing/separating ourselves. Been there and done that.

 

It hurts like hell. It's utterly infuriating. It's hard not to feel bitter or marginalized or victimized. But I do have a choice. How do I respond? Who do I want to be? We all have a place, something to contribute. The choice is ours. And the responsibility is ours.

 

Withdrawal does not define me. And it never will. I define me.

 

I could list some 'protracted' buddies who support others who are much earlier in w/d, without 'scaring' anyone, or generally being viewed as scaring anyone with their timeline. Some still clearly struggle and are open about it, yet they consistently try to encourage others. And when another member recovers much earlier (god forbid, and how dare they  ), the protracted member finds it in him-/herself to be glad for that person - even when it's hard or doesn't come naturally (human nature!).... These are the people we remember, no matter how long their recovery takes.

 

To quote Libble: "I'm gonna keep talking about 'belief' and 'hope'.  I'm Irish." Guilty on both counts. 

 

Wildflower

This will be my last post to this thread. I regret that I started something that has caused more harm than good. What started out is a reminder to not tell people that there is evidence that this damage is permanent, turned out to be a debate over whether or not suffering people should be allowed to speak. That was not my intention. I do not think that the worst will not happen to me. It already has and will most likely continue. Espy

Esperanza, I believe this post that started a discussion that needed to be had.....and in the end, for most people, understood it for what you meant it to be for " the tone" of the post, no matter who it was written by.  It is hard here, but even when things are horrible for us as individuals, we can speak our truth, always remembering, others are reading and feeling.  This is a Support Group.  Love you Cousin, Mary 💜

This will be my last post to this thread. I regret that I started something that has caused more harm than good. What started out is a reminder to not tell people that there is evidence that this damage is permanent, turned out to be a debate over whether or not suffering people should be allowed to speak. That was not my intention. I do not think that the worst will not happen to me. It already has and will most likely continue. Espy

 

There IS proof that permanent damages can happen, because there are people on this planet, who still suffer after decades.

This does not mean that they do not have good lifes, that they are alone or hopeless. Do not blame the victims please.

All we know regarding benzodiazepines is, that ANYTHING has happened so far: there are people recovering after a short period of time, others need longer, some heal fully, some not. I still do not understand why this FACT is not allowed to be sad.

This post really bothers me.

 

As a protracted person (apparently second class and *scary*) the truth, while sometimes scary, is what I'm most interested in.

 

People are suffering in some cases for years.  Do not those people deserve support too?  Can you not wrap your mind around being this sick for this long challenges any thoughts of 'hope'  I totally agree with what Marigold said.

 

I feel this is just more silencing by people who want to wield their power for their own benefit.

 

This is a diverse 'community' and as long are folks are speaking from their experiences and hearts, who are you to insist on 'correct content'?

It's not just about you.

 

This will be my last post to this thread. I regret that I started something that has caused more harm than good. What started out is a reminder to not tell people that there is evidence that this damage is permanent, turned out to be a debate over whether or not suffering people should be allowed to speak. That was not my intention. I do not think that the worst will not happen to me. It already has and will most likely continue. Espy

 

There IS proof that permanent damages can happen, because there are people on this planet, who still suffer after decades.

This does not mean that they do not have good lifes, that they are alone or hopeless. Do not blame the victims please.

All we know regarding benzodiazepines is, that ANYTHING has happened so far: there are people recovering after a short period of time, others need longer, some heal fully, some not. I still do not understand why this FACT is not allowed to be sad.

 

I've highlighted in purple what I'm addressing in 1st above quote.  Take note, I did not report it, as I could have.  The second quoted post is thoroughly inflammatory in nature.  -  If/when administrators see how members are addressing each other on this thread, it will be closed anyway.  -  When people post in such a manner, it runs the risk of derailing the thread w/arguments & administrators shutting down what could be a helpful & productive thread.  I am going to believe this was not the intention.  Members are sometimes in states of heightened sensitivity.  There are also online community rules and guidelines, i.e. online etiquette, which should be followed when posting.  Sometimes, people here (& other online forums too; probably even more brutally on some), just type whatever's on their mind w/out thinking it through; not following rules; using solid caps (yelling), exclamation points, being accusatory.  Not respectful of others & not thinking about how what they're saying may be perceived.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion & as long as they are following community policies & online etiquette has the right to post them.  From time to time, folks don't seem to be familiarizing themselves with community forum policies/guidelines prior to participation, or online etiquette, either.

 

When I read things that rankle, I pause & remind myself that as in physical life, so too, in virtual life, there are those who are polite & those who are not.

I think a lot of members are under the impression b/c we share a common experience, everyone will have empathy & therefore be nice/friendly/get along. Not everything can be blamed on benzos; while it exacerbates many things, there's an underlying inherent personality.  Most of all, this is supposed to be a safe space to share; no one should be made to feel under attack or to have to defend themselves...that's online bullying/trolling & is against every online community's rules. 

 

Thank you for your time.

 

                     

 

 

 

This post really bothers me.

 

As a protracted person (apparently second class and *scary*) the truth, while sometimes scary, is what I'm most interested in.

 

People are suffering in some cases for years.  Do not those people deserve support too?  Can you not wrap your mind around being this sick for this long challenges any thoughts of 'hope'  I totally agree with what Marigold said.

 

I feel this is just more silencing by people who want to wield their power for their own benefit.

 

This is a diverse 'community' and as long are folks are speaking from their experiences and hearts, who are you to insist on 'correct content'?

It's not just about you.

 

I've highlighted what I'm addressing in above quote.  Take note, I did not report it, as I could have.  -  If/when administrators catch how members are addressing each other on this thread, it will be closed anyway.  -  When people post in such a manner, it runs the risk of derailing the thread w/arguments & administrators shutting down what could be a helpful & productive thread.  I am going to believe this was not the intention.  Members are sometimes in states of heightened sensitivity.  There are also online community rules and guidelines, i.e. online etiquette, which should be followed when posting.  Sometimes, people here (& other online forums too; probably even more brutally on some), just spew whatever's on their mind w/out thinking it through; not following rules; using solid caps (yelling), exclamation points, being accusatory.  Not respectful of others & not thinking about how what they're saying may be perceived.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion & as long as they are following community policies & online etiquette has the right to post them.  From time to time, folks don't seem to be familiarizing themselves with community forum policies/guidelines prior to participation.

 

When I read things that rankle, I pause & remind myself that as in physical life, so too, in virtual life, there are those who are polite & those who are not.

I think a lot of members are under the impression b/c we share a common experience, everyone will have empathy & therefore be nice/friendly/get along. Not everything can be blamed on benzos; while it exacerbates many things, there's an underlying inherent personality.  Most of all, this is supposed to be a safe space to share; no one should be made to feel under attack or to have to defend themselves...that's online bullying/trolling & is against every online community rules. 

 

Thank you for your time.

 

                   

 

Isn't this exactly what cookienose meant? She (or he?) wrote as long as people are speaking from their experiences and hearts there is not incorrect content.

Why would you report this?

(Maybe it is my English that makes it impossible for me to understand the problem, but so far I could not see any conflict?)

 

 

FiAddendum, believe me the Mods here know quite well that benzo wd causes some awful symptoms and can wreck havoc on one's life. Our Mods ARE benzo survivors! BB never presents itself as knowing the complete and utter truth about benzos or bwd. For all of us its guessing, as in this entire world, NO ONE really knows the complete truth. It has not been studied enough and may never be. BB is a source of ideas, suggestions, mild advice, on what worked for this person or that person. BB tries to keep "factual statements" under control since they simply cannot be proven. All are guesses. ALL of us have opinions, that's normal human behavior. But we try not to present them as "fact." The only are opinions.

Hope this makes sense. Long day and this little old lady is tired.

east (Annie)

 

If we need 100% proof of anything we might as well shut this down and stop talking about it because very little real proof exists for any of this. People in the know generally agree that it is possible to have protracted issues and I would go so far as to say that anyone who is honest with themselves will acknowledge that it is possible to have some type of symptoms indefinitely. Ashton even says so.

 

So as far as I am concerned this is just as much of a "fact" as anything that is presented here.

This post really bothers me.

 

As a protracted person (apparently second class and *scary*) the truth, while sometimes scary, is what I'm most interested in.

 

People are suffering in some cases for years.  Do not those people deserve support too?  Can you not wrap your mind around being this sick for this long challenges any thoughts of 'hope'  I totally agree with what Marigold said.

 

I feel this is just more silencing by people who want to wield their power for their own benefit.

 

This is a diverse 'community' and as long are folks are speaking from their experiences and hearts, who are you to insist on 'correct content'?

It's not just about you.

 

I've highlighted what I'm addressing in above quote.  Take note, I did not report it, as I could have.  -  If/when administrators catch how members are addressing each other on this thread, it will be closed anyway.  -  When people post in such a manner, it runs the risk of derailing the thread w/arguments & administrators shutting down what could be a helpful & productive thread.  I am going to believe this was not the intention.  Members are sometimes in states of heightened sensitivity.  There are also online community rules and guidelines, i.e. online etiquette, which should be followed when posting.  Sometimes, people here (& other online forums too; probably even more brutally on some), just spew whatever's on their mind w/out thinking it through; not following rules; using solid caps (yelling), exclamation points, being accusatory.  Not respectful of others & not thinking about how what they're saying may be perceived.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion & as long as they are following community policies & online etiquette has the right to post them.  From time to time, folks don't seem to be familiarizing themselves with community forum policies/guidelines prior to participation.

 

When I read things that rankle, I pause & remind myself that as in physical life, so too, in virtual life, there are those who are polite & those who are not.

I think a lot of members are under the impression b/c we share a common experience, everyone will have empathy & therefore be nice/friendly/get along. Not everything can be blamed on benzos; while it exacerbates many things, there's an underlying inherent personality.  Most of all, this is supposed to be a safe space to share; no one should be made to feel under attack or to have to defend themselves...that's online bullying/trolling & is against every online community rules. 

 

Thank you for your time.

 

                   

 

Isn't this exactly what cookienose meant? She (or he?) wrote as long as people are speaking from their experiences and hearts there is not incorrect content.

Why would you report this?

(Maybe it is my English that makes it impossible for me to understand the problem, but so far I could not see any conflict?)

 

This is something I have PM'd Administrators & Colin about - the need to have country location under member avatar.  It's vital for discussion re: medications/treatments & alternative therapies as they vary by country.  And, now this obviously brings home the additional need for it, in that not everyone's first language is English.  Without the location, members have no way of knowing that. 

 

For any who are interested in having this in your profile, so it's easily viewable (w/out having to click on each individual members' profile...unwieldy)it's very simple: - Community doesn't seem to have the IT capabilities in the hard drive for this.  -  However, you can put it instead of quote & update profile.  It's much more vital info.  Marigold, Your entire post was written in bold lettering & you used solid caps - which, I addressed in my post.  Perhaps, there is an online etiquette page in your native language to familiarize yourself. 

 

I hope this info. will be helpful, as this is how it's intended.  'Ta