Does sleep eventually feel like sleep?

I'm always fatigued, tired, eyes cannot stay open, but my brain never feels sleepy. When I do sleep, it's just a light anxiety filled dream state that doesn't feel restorative. I'm always on the verge of sleep and light dreams. Does the sleepy feeling come back? Does sleep feel like sleep eventually?

I am wondering the same.  I recovered once before from withdrawal and the sleepiness feeling and restorative sleep came back.  But now I am in hell.  Never sleepy and never rested.  Starting to really feel like this won't end.  The only thing that would knock me out now are benzos.  That is not quality sleep and my tolerance builds fast so it would literally be a dead end.  But right now this is not life... getting 2hrs of crappy sleep if I am lucky and the pain in my head is unreal.

 

They say on here that this always gets better.  But if you go on the protracted board there are people not sleeping well at 5 to 10yrs off.  Ughh.  I don't know what to believe. 

I'm always fatigued, tired, eyes cannot stay open, but my brain never feels sleepy. When I do sleep, it's just a light anxiety filled dream state that doesn't feel restorative. I'm always on the verge of sleep and light dreams. Does the sleepy feeling come back? Does sleep feel like sleep eventually?

 

YES!

Uncomfortable,numb- exactly. The suffering is indescribable. I haven't an inch of improvement. Your first withdrawal it came back though?

Hi Ptsd,

I recovered almost fully before.  You can read my posts from 2017 when I got off Remeron then Ativan the first time.

I thought I would never experience this Hell again in my life. I was sure I couldn't handle it.  But now I am here.  Think major life stresses and alcohol brought me back to Hell.  Enduring this since November 2018.  I broke down out of desperation because of the insomnia in May and tried Remeron then Ativan.  This mistake might have been fatal for me.  My med history was already so long with fast tapers and CTs.  I just added two more.  I believe Remeron and Ativan really screw people up. Some of the most damaged people took them. 

 

But on a positive note, I was healed for a whole year from October 2017 to October 2018.  Depreasion, anxiety were gone.  I was working a lot and dating and very busy enjoying life.  Sleep came back fully (took 5 or 6 months).  Dp/dr vanished. My personality came back - sense of humour, curiosity, and outgoing nature. Tinnitus even became barely noticeable  The only thing that lingered was minimal head pressure.

 

Now all of my symptoms are back.  Some worse than the previous withdrawal.  If anything would ease a bit it would give me hope that there will be possible further progress. But I am stuck with no improvements. 

Hi Ptsd,

I recovered almost fully before.  You can read my posts from 2017 when I got off Remeron then Ativan the first time.

I thought I would never experience this Hell again in my life. I was sure I couldn't handle it.  But now I am here.  Think major life stresses and alcohol brought me back to Hell.  Enduring this since November 2018.  I broke down out of desperation because of the insomnia in May and tried Remeron then Ativan.  This mistake might have been fatal for me.  My med history was already so long with fast tapers and CTs.  I just added two more.  I believe Remeron and Ativan really screw people up. Some of the most damaged people took them. 

 

But on a positive note, I was healed for a whole year from October 2017 to October 2018.  Depreasion, anxiety were gone.  I was working a lot and dating and very busy enjoying life.  Sleep came back fully (took 5 or 6 months).  Dp/dr vanished. My personality came back - sense of humour, curiosity, and outgoing nature. Tinnitus even became barely noticeable  The only thing that lingered was minimal head pressure.

 

Now all of my symptoms are back.  Some worse than the previous withdrawal.  If anything would ease a bit it would give me hope that there will be possible further progress. But I am stuck with no improvements.

 

So did you’re setback begin immediately following your consumption of alcohol? Mine did.

Jrm97,

 

The setback coincided around the time I drank.  I was okay the first few times I drank.  I tested the waters by consuming more to the point I got drunk a handful of times.  Think the setback was brought on by a combination of heavier drinking and major life stresses that included the death of my father. 

 

I hope there are people who screwed up as much as me who have healed. 

I believe that alcohol works on some of the same brain receptors as benzos and z-drugs do so drinking after going through a withdrawal would be like pulling a scab off a wound before it was ready to come off. Once your nervous system achieves some sort of equilibrium it can take a very long time before it is no longer very susceptible to setbacks.

Take .5 mg clonazap. For sleep at 8 15 pm.

ASleep often by 9 30 pm

Was taking extra .25 in middle of

Night, but able to quit that so far.

They start me on Paxil for

anxiety.

Struggle to take consistently.

But a bit better.

Working up to dose they recommend .

So desperate for sleep at

end of day I just take it clonazap

 

but WHY does sleep feel like this? i dream, and the only way i know if i slept for 2 hours is if i remember my dreams. i wake up feeling like my muscles were locked in the same position with no relaxation, my body aches, and i don't feel any restoration. just feels like someone took that memory of that block of time away from me.

but WHY does sleep feel like this? i dream, and the only way i know if i slept for 2 hours is if i remember my dreams. i wake up feeling like my muscles were locked in the same position with no relaxation, my body aches, and i don't feel any restoration. just feels like someone took that memory of that block of time away from me.

 

I believe that when we are in withdrawal and suffering severe sleep deprivation what sleep we get tends to be mostly REM sleep rather than deeper restorative sleep. REM sleep is supposed to be beneficial for the mind and the mind has all sorts of ways to look after itself. One is getting as much REM sleep as it can when sleep is rare. Your body will get the sleep it needs later on, but just be glad that your brain is being taken care of.

Aloha - that makes sense, I just feel like it's been going on for so long. The fatigue is indescribable

Not trying to alarm you, but 7 months off is very early for most?  Many feel a lot better between month 12 and 18.  Some sooner, some later.  If you go to bed and don't expect to get sleep or even refreshing sleep (which comes later), you will be much better off.  Just sayin!

Aloha - that makes sense, I just feel like it's been going on for so long. The fatigue is indescribable

 

To be honest, I made it through my severe sleep deprivation with the help of coffee. Many folks will speak out against that practice, but it got me through the countless mornings. I just made sure that I did not drink any after 2 pm. I had at least 2 cups of coffee every day throughout the whole ordeal. Some nights I slept while others I did not, so not sure that the caffeine played a role in keeping me awake. I don't think that I would have been able to function on my job without the boost.

Is your sleep better now? I'm not even functional at home so I don't think caffeine would be necessary since I'm just sitting and watching tv anyways. I'm lucky that I can stay with my folks while I recover. If it's even possible. I'm off all meds now (mirtazapine jumped a week ago). I'm sleeping naturally, but its a weiiiiird dream state. I don't get that falling asleep feeling. With multiple wake ups per night. It's been almost 8 months. Sigh. I guess I should be grateful that I'm getting some sleep at all. I always thought the deeper restorative state is better for recovery (I always slept deeper and longer when I had the flu), but you say rem sleep is better for brain recovery. Interesting

The real reason for REM sleep and dreams is not known, but it is thought to be related to some sort of mind reset. It has been documented that when we don't get enough REM sleep or our REM sleep keeps getting interrupted we tend to replace our normal sleep cycle with extra REM. This is called REM rebound. Try Googling it.

 

REM sleep usually occurs at the end of a full sleep cycle of progressively deeper sleep. It ends with what is called an arousal period where we wake up (or come close to waking up) and then we sink back into a new sleep cycle. If the arousal period results in a full wake up we will remember the dreams that come with REM sleep. During REM rebound we tend to drop straight into REM, have an arousal period and then go back into REM. That is why we remember so many dreams. I still spend too much time fluttering in and out of REM sleep on some nights, but I like the remembered dreams since it is confirmation of having fallen asleep.

 

As we age, we tend to need less deeper restorative sleep and more REM sleep, but while growing and developing we need more deep sleep which is beneficial to the body. This might be why younger people sometimes seem to have a harder time dealing with the disruptions of normal sleep cycles caused by withdrawal.

Following this thread. I have the same issue as PTSD. Thanks for the info, aloha.

theway - ya that's what i do. i try not to expect anything as to avoid getting agitated. it works for the first couple of hours, then i still start getting annoyed because physical discomfort starts to set in. i start getting cold, and my back starts aching, and of course i can't control what my mind wants to ruminate on at night since there's no distraction.

 

aloha - thanks for explaining that. i for sure have rem rebound this entire time. i sometimes catch myself going directly into rem when i do fall asleep. then i wake up, then fall straight back into rem. it's an entire night filled with dreams and it feels like i've been in that dream state for days, when it's only just a few hours. since i remember every single detail of the dreams. it also makes sense what you say that younger people's body suffer more drastically since we are used to more deeper sleep. i guess that explains why i feel weak, my muscles are wasting, i wake up and my body does not feel rejuvenated at all (despite the 7 broken rem hours i'm getting). i'm just scared that my sleep cycle is screwed like this forever. this pattern just hasn't budged at all.

theway - ya that's what i do. i try not to expect anything as to avoid getting agitated. it works for the first couple of hours, then i still start getting annoyed because physical discomfort starts to set in. i start getting cold, and my back starts aching, and of course i can't control what my mind wants to ruminate on at night since there's no distraction.

 

aloha - thanks for explaining that. i for sure have rem rebound this entire time. i sometimes catch myself going directly into rem when i do fall asleep. then i wake up, then fall straight back into rem. it's an entire night filled with dreams and it feels like i've been in that dream state for days, when it's only just a few hours. since i remember every single detail of the dreams. it also makes sense what you say that younger people's body suffer more drastically since we are used to more deeper sleep. i guess that explains why i feel weak, my muscles are wasting, i wake up and my body does not feel rejuvenated at all (despite the 7 broken rem hours i'm getting). i'm just scared that my sleep cycle is screwed like this forever. this pattern just hasn't budged at all.

 

 

 

Unless this is the way you slept before benzos, your sleep cycles should return to normal in time. This is a process that can be measured in months or even years, not days and weeks. Don't freak out when I say "years" because you don't have to wait that long before you feel any improvement at all. Every little bit of progress that sets in makes things better and easier to handle. It is probably best that you don't fixate on some future point in time when you are all better, but try instead to make the best of the life that you are living right now. After all, the past is only a memory and the future is only a thought so all we really have is the present.

aloha - very true. fighting ruminative thoughts about the past and worries about the future makes it hard to live in the present, but i do try my best. my present is mainly watch tv, crochet, bake a little.  i actually did have insomnia prior to benzo use (this is why i was started on benzos). it wasn't this kind of sleep patternof muliple awakeings and rem rebound etc. it was mainly difficulty falling asleep due to a health scare leading to insomnia and then sleep anxiety. this lasted about a  month before i started taking benzos daily. one of my friends struggled with a similar kind of insomnia. she had a traumatic event leading to insomnia which for her self corrected in 6 months. the difference is that she never took benzos, so her brain was not damaged in other ways, yet it STILL took 6 months for an otherwise healthy young brain to recover from insomnia. it's probably going to take a lot of time for my insomnia to truly correct. benzos did a number to my brain in so many different ways.

I get a horrible heavy toxic feeling come over me as I'm falling asleep, it's like i just am so tired but not in a good way and then i wake up about 5 hours later in a horrible toxic wake up with adrenaline surges and feel like I've been poisoned. It's a horrible cycle, at 22 months off i am so effing sick of it.

I get a horrible heavy toxic feeling come over me as I'm falling asleep, it's like i just am so tired but not in a good way and then i wake up about 5 hours later in a horrible toxic wake up with adrenaline surges and feel like I've been poisoned. It's a horrible cycle, at 22 months off i am so effing sick of it.

 

Sorry about that, southern. I think I remember reading a post of yours not too long ago in which you said that you were only sleeping 3 hours a night. 5 hours is certainly an improvement from that. That’s a sign that you’re  continuing to heal, which is good. Has your vision improved any more since the last stroke?

Thanks for your words of wisdom jrm, you are right, we don't focus on the small gains, only the crap that's left. My vision has actually improved quite a lot lately, i think taking aspirin may have helped with that by reducing  the nflamnation, despite the big uptick in sxs. I'm being referred for an ophthalmic assessment in 3 months to see if any strong lenses might help further, thanks for asking!

Thanks for your words of wisdom jrm, you are right, we don't focus on the small gains, only the crap that's left. My vision has actually improved quite a lot lately, i think taking aspirin may have helped with that by reducing  the nflamnation, despite the big uptick in sxs. I'm being referred for an ophthalmic assessment in 3 months to see if any strong lenses might help further, thanks for asking!

 

No problem! I’m glad to hear that it has improved more.

When sleep does start coming back, does your face start to look more normal?

I look like a completely different person, aged, swollen eyes, red eyes, dark circles.