Considering low dose C/0 from K to V

I'm just below .25mg of K right now, and this is killing me... literally. I started making plans in the middle of the night about which cliff in Moab I should jump off of this weekend... and I can't feel like this anymore. I think the K itself is making me super sick and depressed, more so than the W/D... and it is certainly not having ANY therapeutic effects on me anymore, even right after I take my dose. I also don't think I waited long enough to stabilize after reinstating before tapering. Really hoping I can c/o and then properly stabilize this time. 

 

I've read a ton of threads on here from people that have switched from pretty high doses, and have felt too sedated and depressed and wished they hadn't switched.

 

My hope is that since I will only need about ~5mg of V, the sedation won't be too bad... and maybe it'll even be just enough sedation to get me some proper sleep at night.

 

Anyone else make the C/O at this low of a dose? What have been your experiences? I am desperate. I've tried everything and I am at the end of my rope.

 

Much appreciated. I really need a way to regain some hope... because at this point all hope is lonnng gone.

I'm sorry for your suffering. I can't answer your question for you, but I know how the black depression feels. It is miserable. This has done things to my brain I never thought imaginable.

I am at .375 and am attempting a crossover right now, crossing over 1/3 of my dose so far.  I was having EXTREME hyperacusis and am very symptomatic.  I'm in acute already and the klonpin, though dosing 3X per day, I was having severe I/D withdrawals.  I had to take a chance.  I don't care about sedation.  It's helped my hyperacusis tremendously and a few other things but I've gained severe muscle pain in my neck/shoulders/back and headache and some stomach issues and itching.....I am an ultra-rapid metabolizer of one of the metabolites though, so I don't know if that makes a difference.  But I am in acute with several months of tapering and I had to do something for the I/D withdrawals of K.  I swapped out a .1 dose for 2 mg and am likely just going to move the other .125 mg doses to 2 mg each for a total of 6 mg, a little less than Ashton recommends.  It has helped me sleep.

I am at .375 and am attempting a crossover right now, crossing over 1/3 of my dose so far.  I was having EXTREME hyperacusis and am very symptomatic.  I'm in acute already and the klonpin, though dosing 3X per day, I was having severe I/D withdrawals.  I had to take a chance.  I don't care about sedation.  It's helped my hyperacusis tremendously and a few other things but I've gained severe muscle pain in my neck/shoulders/back and headache and some stomach issues and itching.....I am an ultra-rapid metabolizer of one of the metabolites though, so I don't know if that makes a difference.  But I am in acute with several months of tapering and I had to do something for the I/D withdrawals of K.  I swapped out a .1 dose for 2 mg and am likely just going to move the other .125 mg doses to 2 mg each for a total of 6 mg, a little less than Ashton recommends.  It has helped me sleep.

 

How many mg of V are you planning to be on once your C/O is complete. The better sleep thing is exciting for me, because night is always when I have my manic episodes and when I do I have a hard time recovering for the rest of the day.

 

And how do you know about the rapid metabolizer thing? Did you have tests done? I keep wondering if there are any tests I can have done that will shed some light on any way I can make this any easier.

 

I feel like I’m in acute right now too, either that or just my body can’t handle K anymore at all... but I’m dependent at the same time. Ugh I just feel so trapped.

 

I’m doing liquid K so my plan is to make a bottle of liquid K and a bottle of V, and slowly go down on the K as I go up on the V, over the course of 3-4 weeks. Hold on the V for maybe like 2 months, then continue taper.

 

Still waiting to hear back from my NP if she’ll even write me a script tho.

I have not yet decided on the amount but I do not think I will cross to the high ratio that Ashton recommends (which would be 7.2 mg).  It's just a hunch on my part.  I may go somewhere in the middle of what my own doctor thinks (1:10 versus 1:20).  I may only go to 5 mg.  I have considered 4 but I do not want to push it.  I want to stabilize if I can to get rid of the I/D withdrawal, not kindle, but not make my CNS freak out any more. 

 

Note that with the Valium, it's gotten rid of some of my symptoms but I've acquired some new ones/side effects and it's not eliminated everything at all.  But it helped my extremely painful hyperacusis, for which I am grateful right now.

 

You may also consider that a liquid taper could be causing you issues.  I could NOT do a liquid taper on K b/c it processed through me so quickly and that's part of the problem with the orally disentigrating tablets I was using.  I am hoping/desiring that maybe I could do a liquid V but I am not yet sure.  It truly is the best/easiest way for those that can handle it. 

 

I took my doctor the document on the link below......it may help you convince your doctor to try.  Please do not be bullied into a direct crossover either, though some say they did and instantly felt better within a week or two.  I also took the Ashton equivalency chart of doses, as well as one from another site and the crossover schedule, etc.  And it does NOT matter that you are so low in dose. 

 

This may not help us in the end.  When you are already in acute, which happens to many before they are off, it's hell and we have to just hold on and try to get off.  But I am not "almost" off - I have many months of tapering still.  Slowing down helped but it was NOT enough.  I was/am having severe CT symptoms. 

 

https://benzo.org.uk/ashvtaper.htm?fbclid=IwAR09lJntcQFPZ_aCjfpIouoC_gHTbhVWeNhgv1lj3UuP1iQMDk01Ym_o-MY

Thanks for that doc, interesting read. Definitely makes me want to try it. I think after I was off the K for 65 days, the K has never truly done much of anything therapeutical for me, so I’m really hoping that switching to V will kickstart my receptors to at least give me SOME relief. I know that there will be nothing that will completely take my symptoms away and not have any sxs at all, but any relief will be very welcome.

 

I’ve been wondering that same thing about the liquid myself. It seemed to be working great in the beginning, very manageable symptoms... but for the past month, things have taken a small turn for the worse. Perhaps I’ll try switching back to dry pills.

 

Thanks for your feedback.

Well...you did taper pretty quickly so it might just be that...your body just caught up with all the reductions? maybe you should just try holding for a month or two? I was at .16 K-had to switch brands-it was bad-now I am at .3 and miserable (I tried tapering too fast last month)...I, too, am thinking of switching over to Valium because I have never felt good on Klonopin and I just can't seem to get stable. But yeah...there is no rhyme or reason...some people switch great-others not...it is such a crap shoot :-( If you do switch do it over 1-2 months and take it slow and then hold for a month or two and then taper as slow as you need to to be functional. Toom many people think this is a race and the priority should be to get/ stay functional no matter if it takes awhile...just my opinion...

Ok, so I got my script for V, and I feel like I have to give it a try. My plan is to reduce the K 20% and add in the equivalent amount of V per week, like this:

 

Stage 1          .2mg K            1mg V

Stage 2          .15mg K          2mg V

Stage 3          .1mg K            3mg V

Stage 4          .05mg K          4mg V

Stage 5                                5mg V

 

This will be a bit of an up-dose in the end since I've been at .225mg K for the past few days, but I need to get/stay functional so I think I badly need an up-dose, as well as a hold. I'll probably hold on the V for for 30 days once I get to the 5mg.

 

Anyone see any problems with this? Hoping some admins can weigh in.

 

Also been reading a lot of horror stories on here about depression getting worse after switching. My depression is already as bad as it can get, so I am soooooo scared right now.

I did across over from klonopin to Valium. It was a partial cross over. From my experience you really don’t have to go that slowly. Look at my reply right here in substution titled crossing over from 3 mg klonopin. I got pretty detailed

I did across over from klonopin to Valium. It was a partial cross over. From my experience you really don’t have to go that slowly. Look at my reply right here in substution titled crossing over from 3 mg klonopin. I got pretty detailed

 

I still haven't started because I'm scared to try. My depression is out of control, and I keep reading the Valium makes you even more depressed. I couldn't find that thread in substitution, I looked all over.

 

Was trazodone effective for you? I really need to get on an AD, but I don't know which one to try next. SSRIs have sent me into waves, I tried Remeron one dose and it made me feel horrible too.

I did across over from klonopin to Valium. It was a partial cross over. From my experience you really don’t have to go that slowly. Look at my reply right here in substution titled crossing over from 3 mg klonopin. I got pretty detailed

 

Hi

 

I understand your concern about Valium being depressing. Yes this can happen but since you only need to cross over to 5 mg I believe from my experience it wouldn’t be a major issue. I also think you can cross over at one time, but since you’re sensitive to medications perhaps your plan is better. I never felt depression on my70 mg Valium. Just fatigued, which I preferred to anxiety and or insomnia.

 

It’s okay to feel scared. Just not fun. You have tens of thousands of people here who feel the same. Just know you’re not alone. Okay if you are too scared to taper right now then please don’t. There is a thread in the support section called the long hold. I’ll find it and give you the link.

 

If you find the Valium makes you too depressed than you can always switch back, but not something you should do lightly. I’m note sure if you were depressed before benzos. That can make a difference.

 

Yes the trazodone was the only AD I could tolerate. It helped me to sleep 😴 and I also assume helped my symptoms. I didn’t have very many. But I did a rapid withdrawal off it after I finished my benzo taper because it stopped working for me and in fact kept me up. But I was on it successfully for quite a few years. Perhaps 4-5. The only thing remeron did for me is gain a ton of weight. Here is a link to the thread I mentioned about a cross over. This person was on a much higher dose. I’m the last post.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=230945.0

The long hold thread. A ton of people hold for a long time. You have to decide what works for you. Good luck.

 

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=153201.0

I did across over from klonopin to Valium. It was a partial cross over. From my experience you really don’t have to go that slowly. Look at my reply right here in substution titled crossing over from 3 mg klonopin. I got pretty detailed

 

Hi

 

I understand your concern about Valium being depressing. Yes this can happen but since you only need to cross over to 5 mg I believe from my experience it wouldn’t be a major issue. I also think you can cross over at one time, but since you’re sensitive to medications perhaps your plan is better. I never felt depression on my70 mg Valium. Just fatigued, which I preferred to anxiety and or insomnia.

 

It’s okay to feel scared. Just not fun. You have tens of thousands of people here who feel the same. Just know you’re not alone. Okay if you are too scared to taper right now then please don’t. There is a thread in the support section called the long hold. I’ll find it and give you the link.

 

If you find the Valium makes you too depressed than you can always switch back, but not something you should do lightly. I’m note sure if you were depressed before benzos. That can make a difference.

 

Yes the trazodone was the only AD I could tolerate. It helped me to sleep 😴 and I also assume helped my symptoms. I didn’t have very many. But I did a rapid withdrawal off it after I finished my benzo taper because it stopped working for me and in fact kept me up. But I was on it successfully for quite a few years. Perhaps 4-5. The only thing remeron did for me is gain a ton of weight. Here is a link to the thread I mentioned about a cross over. This person was on a much higher dose. I’m the last post.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=230945.0

 

I was never depressed before the benzos, only anxious. I am going to give the crossover a try, I think I have to.

 

I do think I did try to taper too quickly (which is just hard to accept since I've now been tapering for way longer than I was on K to begin with)... but I also think that the K has just not been kind to me from the beginning. Hopefully V will play nicer.

I certainly hope so. That’s the way it went for me. If you didn’t have depression before benzos then when you’re off it will very likely go away, a good thing.

Subbed .05mg of K for 1 mg of V for 3 days and it has made me super sick, so I guess I'll stick to to tapering directly from K. I suppose it's very possible that my body would adjust to the V after a bit, but I don't wanna take that risk.

 

Guess I'll hold at .25mg for a while to see what happens. Sure hope I can stabilize a bit.