Dry Cutting vs Liquid Titrations - Share Your Experience Please

Hi all, I am currently on a 5 mg tablet hold from taper of 10 mg Valium.  Ive done this by dry cutting. I posted yesterday about horrible morning symptoms of nausea and anxiety.  Someone mentioned that this has to do with cortisol levels peaking in the morning.  I have appointment with my psychiatrist on the 21st.

 

Should I suggest to her we try a liquid titration to go slower on tapering?  I’m under the impression that folks here on BB tend to do liquid when they are at low dosages or Benzo. 

 

These morning symptoms suck and I’m going to have to get a job.  Which is one reason I want my withdrawal symptoms to be lessened in the mornings.

 

Suggestions? 

 

Meems97

Hi Meems,  I have those morning symptoms too. My anxiety begins right before waking up and ends shortly after getting up and having breakfast. The nausea seems to last shorter compared to what is was a couple of months ago. I did a dry micro taper. Tried a Vodka / water solution for a few weeks,  but the alcohol messed up my whole body. So had to stop. Many people seem to do fine on it, though. Liquid Valium is not available where I live. And Vodka is not the one for me. Sure hope it works for you.

 

Should I suggest to her we try a liquid titration to go slower on tapering?  I’m under the impression that folks here on BB tend to do liquid when they are at low dosages or Benzo. 

 

 

 

Meems97

 

Here's the functional difference, with regards to a taper schedule:

 

Realistically, about the smallest dose unit you can divide tablet diazepam into is about .5mg (1/4 of a 2mg tablet).  So effectively, the smallest cut you can make is .5mg

 

If you do liquid (any of the several alternative options), you can easily meter out/measure down to .01 (hundredths) of a mg.

 

So if you need to make cuts smaller then .5mg, liquid is your answer.

I have done water for last two years and it has worked fine. I tried the vodka and it made my sx awful...I also tried propylene glycol and that was funky, too. I have just never had a problem using just water. I put water in a jar and my pill and let it sit for a couple days then shake the crap out of it. I make up enough to last for a few days (I bought small glass bottles on amazon). When I move liquid from the big jar into my small dosing jars I just make sure to stir the liquid regularly when pulling out with my syringe to fill the little bottles.

Just because you did a "water-titration" does NOT necessarily mean it "worked".  Most folks actually taper off of benzos with little or no difficulty, without the help aff any formal taper protocol.

 

"Diazepam is classified as a Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) Schedule IV drug. Propylene glycol and ethyl alcohol are included because diazepam is lipid soluble and relatively water insoluble; therefore it requires a nonaqueous-solvent system."

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/pharmacology-toxicology-and-pharmaceutical-science/diazepam

 

"Diazepam occurs as solid white or yellow crystals with a melting point of 131.5 to 134.5 °C. It is odorless, and has a slightly bitter taste. The British Pharmacopoeia lists it as being very slightly soluble in watersoluble in alcohol, …"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazepam

In your previous post you claimed this:

 

For many (most?) cut&hold (which actually IS cut&suffer) doesn't work. My C&H was difficult, until it became intolerable.  And my several attempts at "water taper" ended horribly.  (I think its well established now that the common benzos are either insoluble, or poorly soluble, in water)  The challenge with C&H is most folks reach a level where they can no longer divide a tablet in a small enough dose to allow a "tolerable" cut.  And that problem is especially acute with high potency, high dose-density drugs like clonazepam.  This is why liquid works!  It allows you make reductions measured in .01mg, or even .001mg, units.  It became  very obvious to me that the key to a successful taper lie in being able to make smaller unit reductions

 

And now this:

 

Just because you did a "water-titration" does NOT necessarily mean it "worked".  Most folks actually taper off of benzos with little or no difficulty, without the help aff any formal taper protocol.

 

builder, I think you misunderstand my intentions. And you are so focussed on winning your argument, you are contradicting yourself. But please be reassured that BB has long provided space for members to discuss titration and how they might make smaller cuts to their dose and I have no intention of changing this or preventing members engaging in responsible discourse. The only issue here is that you are stating opinion as though it is established fact. The proper course of action when asked for citations is to to provide them. Or if you are unable to do this, back-peddle, admit that you overstated your position, and we can then move on and start a sensible discussion. You should note that I have many questions, and few answers. This is because I have read enough to at least understand the limits of what we can know around here, and to appreciate that pharmacology, pharmacokinets and bioavailability are complicated matters which rely upon experiments and clinical studies for answers. I have no problem stating that 'I do not know'. But what I can categorically state is that delivery methods certainly affect absorption - this is established beyond any shadow of a doubt, as there is a whole field of expertise dedicated to its study.