Lisa Ling on the Dr. Oz Show

https://youtu.be/D9SoTXOC9b4?t=1514

He managed to misrepresent the story, as is so common with benzo coverage.

 

As soon as you mention addiction the whole thing falls apart. I never craved the drug and I took about half of what I was prescribed and I still ended up suffering for years.

 

At least the Lisa Ling thing is the real deal. I just wish everyone was on the same page about promoting it. That's too much to ask, I suppose.

Well, at least the word dependent was used. I was glad about that.

Well, at least the word dependent was used. I was glad about that.

 

That doesn't matter because all anyone is going to hear is "addiction" and "craving" and such.

 

It's too bad because if it were just worded a little differently it could have been ok.

 

I just refuse to celebrate things like this. They do as much harm as good.

I didn't mind it being used here, it was in context and, unless I'm mistaken, it was Lisa Ling who first used it in this piece and, no doubt, she's been very well coached by BIC.  I think it has its place when in careful context, and it hits home, whereas the word "dependency" can be ambiguous and miss the mark with the general public.  I didn't hear the word "craving", maybe I need to watch it a second time.

 

I won't comment on Oz because I have no respect for the man at all, he has no integrity, he's a chameleon and will adjust his "professional opinion" whichever way the wind blows and the money flows.

I thought it was pretty good. Not 100% accurate, but it’s a good start. This and Lisa Ling’s upcoming show should make a huge difference. Again it’s a start.

I thought it was pretty good. Not 100% accurate, but it’s a good start. This and Lisa Ling’s upcoming show should make a huge difference. Again it’s a start.

 

That's it. It is far from perfect, but beggars can't be choosers. Yes, and Oz is a clown. Oh well, better than being in total obscurity.

Close isn't good enough. Using words for shock value perpetuates the problem. This isn't a matter of "any publicity is good publicity". The narrative MUST change or this problem will never go away.

 

The public will continue to dismiss this because addicts "bring it on themselves". Patients will continue to dismiss this because they don't believe that they have an addictive personality. Doctors will continue to refer people to rehabs to be ripped off of the drugs because "that's what you do with addicts".

 

Read the comments on any of the number of reaction videos to the Jordan Peterson thing on youtube and you will see exactly what we are up against. This is an uphill battle and no ground is gained unless they get the basic facts straight.

 

There are no baby steps here. It's all or nothing. The Lisa Ling piece isn't perfect but it raises awareness WITHOUT DOING ANY DAMAGE.

 

Anything else is unacceptable.

I disagree in this instance, FG.  Give a show of hands who knows someone who's presently on a benzo or who may be on one themselves.  And, what, 90% of hands went up.  And showing very clearly what transpired with her elderly father.  No, I really don't believe the message will be misconstrued in this case.  And I don't believe it was being used for shock value either.  This debate came up very often in the past with BB member, Photobug, remember?  At one time, if the word "dependent" came up, I would've immediately assumed that it meant, for example, that people couldn't sleep without the drug because they had come to "rely" on it for sleep.  I would never have understood that it meant *physically* dependent and all the associated ramifications.  So, yea, it wasn't fantabulous, but I'm quite fine with it on the whole.

This is why I think we need to be out there correcting these things in the ways that we can; if we can.

 

Real world m-changing conversations happen online now. We could invest ourselves in those conversations, correct those misconceptions, support the correct ones. Entire YouTube comment sections and reddit threads go in different directions with thoughtful or clever or caustic replies.

 

We won’t be marching in the street anytime soon. So let’s do what we can do. We’ve got everything to gain and nothing to lose by participating  but time that many  of us are trying to waste while we heal anyways.

 

If nothing else think of it as a distraction.

 

I’ve seen threads where every time someone used the word addiction,  BIC explained Succinctly how it wasn’t but was dependence. They did it every time.. It had a real effect.

 

I think it was well done in regards to the interview with the mother who lost her son due to cold turkey withdrawal; that alone will make a big impact. "You would not believe the dark places this drug will take you". Couldn't have said it better. Also thought the visual description of what goes on in the brain when the drug is removed will make people understand the physical dependence aspect.

 

Close isn't good enough. Using words for shock value perpetuates the problem. This isn't a matter of "any publicity is good publicity". The narrative MUST change or this problem will never go away.

 

The public will continue to dismiss this because addicts "bring it on themselves". Patients will continue to dismiss this because they don't believe that they have an addictive personality. Doctors will continue to refer people to rehabs to be ripped off of the drugs because "that's what you do with addicts".

 

Read the comments on any of the number of reaction videos to the Jordan Peterson thing on youtube and you will see exactly what we are up against. This is an uphill battle and no ground is gained unless they get the basic facts straight.

 

There are no baby steps here. It's all or nothing. The Lisa Ling piece isn't perfect but it raises awareness WITHOUT DOING ANY DAMAGE.

 

Anything else is unacceptable.

 

That's a noble approach. But this is just a tiny blip in the greater battle. I'm far too tired to debate you on where I think you are wrong.

They need to talk about the damage, and not addiction OR dependency.  I wasn't dependent on them or addicted.  My shrink said I didn't have an addictive personality and I don't.  Tolerance w/d, interdose w/d, and getting off the pills and how it hurts the body is what they should be talking about.  The damage and long-term suffering.  The world needs to wake up and get real about the benzo injury.

I think language is critical and I’m speaking from my personal experience. After I was c/t in a VA facility and released without further refills of Ativan or Ambien, my Psychiatrist used the word addiction to describe what was happening to me.

 

I was SHOCKED she thought this. And my benzo story would be incomplete without including that I WAS still in the dark that these DRUGS were the culprit to my nightmarish insanity and pain (ALMOST a year of this nightmare by then).

 

This Psychiatrist had several decades of working in this field of employment.

 

The benzodiazepine debacle has been known for upwards of 5 decades??….50 years.

 

All I can say is WOW, I’m smitten.

I think that we need to refer to it as physiologically dependent as for many of us, our bodies/brain needed these drugs or else....withdrawal!  The nightmare we are all in!  The "damage" so to speak. It wasn't a choice for many of us, it happened TO our bodies!!! That's what the public needs to understand!

That's a noble approach. But this is just a tiny blip in the greater battle. I'm far too tired to debate you on where I think you are wrong.

 

There is a very good reason why BIC and other "new school" campaigners are adamant that correct terminology is used when describing this. In the past people didn't stop to think about the ramifications of it, but now we know better and it has been very succinctly outlined in many fantastic articles that explain the damage that one little word can cause and why it causes it.

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/2019/09/23/benzo-induced-harm-the-nameless-problem/

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/2019/08/31/bic-supports-fdas-benzodiazepine-drug-abuse-addiction-and-dependence-language-proposal/

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/2018/09/20/words-can-hurt-those-on-benzodiazepines/

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/2018/08/22/benzodiazepine-related-problems-its-almost-never-addiction/

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/2017/01/26/benzodiazepines-why-the-term-addiction-must-go-the-term-addiction-is-pejorative-and-misleading-iatrogenically-harmed-not-addicted-2/

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/2016/09/08/dependence-is-separate-from-addiction/

 

And finally, if you don't read anything else about the importance of making a clear distinction between these two terms, THIS epic article sums it up eloquently:

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/2016/09/05/dont-harm-them-twice-when-the-language-surrounding-benzodiazepines-adds-insult-to-injury-part-1/

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/2016/09/05/when-the-language-surrounding-benzodiazepines-adds-insult-to-injury-what-can-be-done-part-2/

There's also this article written by Dr. David Juurlink, a clinical pharmacologist/toxicologist, internist, drug safety researcher and professor at University of Toronto:

 

"Tox and Hound – Dependence Isn’t Addiction, But It’s Still A Problem"

 

https://emcrit.org/toxhound/dependenceaddiction/

 

Here's the first section, but it's definitely worth reading the whole thing:

 

Dependence isn’t the same as addiction

 

Dependence is a special type of drug-related harm. It’s an adaptive phenomenon resulting from exposure to a centrally-active drug and defined by the development of withdrawal symptoms when the drug is removed or the dose lowered too quickly. It can happen with benzos, alcohol, opioids, SSRIs, baclofen, cannabis, pregabalin and many other drugs. Withdrawal symptoms vary by drug, dose and patient, but the gist of dependence is this: when billions of neurons have become accustomed to the presence of a drug, they don’t work properly when it’s suddenly taken away.

 

Addiction is different. The term generally implies a chronic, relapsing condition in which drug use continues despite harmful consequences. I don’t want to get into the weeds about evolving nomenclature1 or the many subtleties2, except to say that there’s merit in not conflating the two terms. To me, the guy smoking his fentanyl patch suffers from addiction (and most likely dependence, too), but the guy using it as prescribed for back pain, and who suffers withdrawal symptoms without it, is simply dependent.

 

But another reason to distinguish the two is that there’s a tendency to normalize dependence. I see this most often in the setting of chronic opioid therapy, with the implication being that dependence is just a thing that happens, and it’s no big deal as long as the medication is helping and the patient shows no signs of addiction.

That's a noble approach. But this is just a tiny blip in the greater battle. I'm far too tired to debate you on where I think you are wrong.

 

There is a very good reason why BIC and other "new school" campaigners are adamant that correct terminology is used when describing this. In the past people didn't stop to think about the ramifications of it, but now we know better and it has been very succinctly outlined in many fantastic articles that explain the damage that one little word can cause and why it causes it.

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/2019/09/23/benzo-induced-harm-the-nameless-problem/

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/2019/08/31/bic-supports-fdas-benzodiazepine-drug-abuse-addiction-and-dependence-language-proposal/

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/2018/09/20/words-can-hurt-those-on-benzodiazepines/

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/2018/08/22/benzodiazepine-related-problems-its-almost-never-addiction/

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/2017/01/26/benzodiazepines-why-the-term-addiction-must-go-the-term-addiction-is-pejorative-and-misleading-iatrogenically-harmed-not-addicted-2/

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/2016/09/08/dependence-is-separate-from-addiction/

 

And finally, if you don't read anything else about the importance of making a clear distinction between these two terms, THIS epic article sums it up eloquently:

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/2016/09/05/dont-harm-them-twice-when-the-language-surrounding-benzodiazepines-adds-insult-to-injury-part-1/

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/2016/09/05/when-the-language-surrounding-benzodiazepines-adds-insult-to-injury-what-can-be-done-part-2/

 

You go FloridaGuy!

While I agree that OZ is a POS (I refuse to call him Dr), I was actually surprised by the intensity of this segment. I was expecting the usual psycho babble, but the mom who lost her son to suicide was heart wrenching. Although the subject is taboo on BB’s, suicide is  much more common “side effect” than people realize. This alone will shake people to their very core. I’ve been a member of BB’s  for a long time and have pursued every media article and news segment I could find and nothing has even come close to this.

 

That being said, I agree with FG, Lapis and others who protest mealy mouthed wording such as “addiction” over the correct term of “dependency”.  This is another deliberate attempt by the MSM, FDA, AMA and the APA to dilute and obfuscate the correct terminology in order to gaslight patients and their families in an attempt to deflect liability.  I’m really getting tired of this. I can promise you nothing will change until the truth of these poisons gets out to the general public.

 

I want to know when actual Doctors will step up and take responsibility, educate their peers, and start making amends.

 

Most doctors are fine, but what kind of a loathsome soul sentences people to this kind of pain, finds out about their mistake(s), and then doesn't go on a crusade? Like, wouldn't that realization change your life? Wouldn't you have to wrestle with taking your own life? And wouldn't you want to make amends, to inform every one of your colleagues, and to devote the rest of your life to helping?

 

People who are themselves injured make that choice, to go out and help, but with a few exceptions I see a wall of silence.

 

I find it harder and harder to understand how civilization has lasted as long as it has. I guess there are enough of us that we can be swatted down like flies and the thing just keeps chugging along.

Dedendency was a big problem for me.  At a certain point I couldn't even take anymore benzo's and increasing the dose only made me worse.  It was literally turning on me in the worst way possible.  I had no choice but to CT off them and also the Z-drugs too.

I like the phrase "iatrogenically dependent." It puts the onus directly on the doctor, where it should be.

I like the phrase "iatrogenically dependent." It puts the onus directly on the doctor, where it should be.

 

Has the link been disabled? I tried it, but it didn't work. Anyone else?

Has the link been disabled? I tried it, but it didn't work. Anyone else?

 

Yep....at my end it says....removed by the owner .