Help - Am I in tolerance withdrawal?

I am wondering if the symptoms I have been experiencing since tapering from Mirtazapine are not as much Mirtazapine withdrawal related as thought.  Have had severe insomnia, anxiety with panic attacks, tingling, vibratory feeling in nerves in extremeties.  Have been on .5 Klonopin for 20 years!  Maybe low dose Mirtzapine altered my Klonopin level when discontinued?  Also have had thyroid issues all summer.  Docs are puzzled about what is going on.  Went on 10 mg. Ambien just to get some sleep.  Am very worried that this could all be Klonopin related.  What do I do???  Appreciate any help you can lend!

I think you're right about lowering the dose of Mirtazapine affecting the Klonopin level. (Did I get that right?)  The guy that runs this website says when you're on several psych drugs to taper the benzo first for that very reason.  Somewhere on his website or in the book he explains it. [nobbc]http://www.theroadbackprogram.com/benzopretaper.aspx

[/nobbc]

 

 

Edit: commercial link

Hi look.  Let me put your PM question here since taper questions must be on the open forum. 

 

Hi Look,

 

It is possible to feel withdrawal symptoms after being on the same dose for awhile.  Benzodiazepines tend to work for awhile and then lose their therapeutic value.  This is called tolerance. At that point an increase is needed to attain therapeutic value again. If no increase happens usually tolerance will turn into something referred to as 'tolerance withdrawal', which is when the user starts feeling withdrawal symptoms while still taking the same dose.  At that point one either holds at that dose and is symptomatic, increases the dose or stops taking it.

 

Ambien is a z-drug.  Z-drugs are very similar to benzodiazepines, same dependence and withdrawal issues, same changes to the body and brain. 

 

What dose of Ambien are you taking and for how long?

 

Many forum members will pass up posts with no information.  Here's how you can add it: go up to Profile, then Forum Profile, add your benzodiazepine and z-drug history (dose and taper, if any) and save it.  I can help if you need help.

 

Challis

 

 

I’ve never taken mirtazapine but give me a minute while I look up mirtazapine withdrawal.  Be back in a few minutes.

I am working with Point of Return with supplementation.  Is it ever recommended to go to rehab facility for detox?  I am feeling the effects of something—Mirtazapine withdrawal or Klonopin dependence withdrawal.  How can I know for certain which it is?  Thank you.

I checked a couple of sites, all much the same information. This one had a longer list:

 

Common Remeron withdrawal symptoms include:

 

Headache

Anxiety

Panic attacks

Appetite changes

Vertigo

Dizziness

Sweats

Irritability

Fatigue

Insomnia

 

 

 

Are they the same as Klonopin?  These symptoms directly coincided with the time I stopped the small amount of Mirtazapine in June.  Thank you!

I am working with Point of Return with supplementation.  Is it ever recommended to go to rehab facility for detox?  I am feeling the effects of something—Mirtazapine withdrawal or Klonopin dependence withdrawal.  How can I know for certain which it is?  Thank you.

 

Few people here would recommend rehab/detox simply because most of them tend to pull their patients off their meds very abruptly. Those patients often reinstate their medication once they get home because they’re in such misery.

 

You can get an idea if Klonopin is the culprit perhaps by upping your dose to see if the symptoms go away.  However I don’t know if that might mask symptoms of mirtazapine (Remeron) withdrawal as well.

 

 

Are they the same as Klonopin?  These symptoms directly coincided with the time I stopped the small amount of Mirtazapine in June.  Thank you!

 

Benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms tend to be anxiety and insomnia, muscle issues, headaches, and a vast array of less common symptoms.

 

If you noticed a big change at the time you stopped the mirtazapine, that’s some evidence it’s more likely to be the culprit.

 

You may have some tolerance issues from 20 years @ the same klonopin dose, too. Hard to say, I’d be guessing.

I checked a couple of sites, all much the same information. This one had a longer list:

 

Common Remeron withdrawal symptoms include:

 

Headache

Anxiety

Panic attacks

Appetite changes

Vertigo

Dizziness

Sweats

Irritability

Fatigue

Insomnia

 

These all would easily fall under benzodiazepine withdrawal too.

Like yourself, I too was on .5 Klonopin for 20 years!! Never thinking I should increase my dose.  I non chalantly just took my pill each day.

 

I got so used to feeling like shit , I thought it was normal. I always felt on the edge. I always felt bad.

It wasn’t until I started weening off the .5 mg pill that I realized ALL the horrible symptoms were from tolerance withdrawal and I will tell you, I feel like a different person now.

 

I am just about finished weening off. I did a very  conservative  Weening at 5 % every two weeks.

I also took mirtazapine a few years ago to help sleep ( boy I miss that ) but I decided to come off that because I did not feel comfortable being on that with the Klonopin even though many people are. 

 

I would not be surprised if you were having big time tolerance withdrawal. Twenty years on the same dose of such a potent med like Klonopin can wreep havoc on our nervous system when the body is craving/ in need of more.

 

Hope you can sort it all out and come off of it altogether and start fresh. You’d be surprised at how you will feel.

 

All the best!

Congratulations to you.  Your story is inspiring.  Sounds like you did not experience the horrible withdrawal some do when coming off Mirt.  I am still feeling it (or the Klonopin effects?).  Hard to tell which one.  And tapered Ambien too.  I am going to stay put for awhile and see if things calm down before starting the Klonopin taper.  Guess I wont be able to take Ambien at the same time. My biggest problem is with sleep.  I really need it.  Thank you for your response.  And good luck to you.

Sleep is a big problem for me,even with the Ambien!  Did you find something helpful for that?

I’m going through menopause so I’m not sure what’s to blame but I realized and accept that there will. E days when I get no sleep at all but there will be days when I do. I take magnesium at night and I try not to obsess over the anticipation or worry of lack of sleep.

I wish I could be more helpful!

 

Hi look.  Let me put your PM question here since taper questions must be on the open forum. 

 

Hi Challis,

Didn’t know I had a response from my first message.  Thank you.  I am very concerned.  Still having what I assumed were Mirtazapine withdrawal symptoms.  If this is from Klonopin, what do need to do? 

I appreciate all your help.

Lookinup

 

 

I answered your September 15th post, since you PMd me im guessing you saw it, but I’ll copy it here anyway because I’m probably going to repeat myself.

 

 

Hi Look,

 

It is possible to feel withdrawal symptoms after being on the same dose for awhile.  Benzodiazepines tend to work for awhile and then lose their therapeutic value.  This is called tolerance. At that point an increase is needed to attain therapeutic value again. If no increase happens usually tolerance will turn into something referred to as 'tolerance withdrawal', which is when the user starts feeling withdrawal symptoms while still taking the same dose.  At that point one either holds at that dose and is symptomatic, increases the dose or stops taking it.

 

Ambien is a z-drug.  Z-drugs are very similar to benzodiazepines, same dependence and withdrawal issues, same changes to the body and brain. 

 

What dose of Ambien are you taking and for how long?

 

Many forum members will pass up posts with no information.  Here's how you can add it: go up to Profile, then Forum Profile, add your benzodiazepine and z-drug history (dose and taper, if any) and save it.  I can help if you need help.

 

Challis

Hi Challis, just saw this.  Can’t find my response, so don’t know if I got back to you. Anyway, is okay to stay and be symptomatic for a little bit of time? Don’t want to updose as I would like to start a taper when things calm down a little.  Do you recommend a taper of the Ambien or Klonopin first?  Ambien about 7.5 for 4 months.  Klonopin .5 for about 20 years!  Thank you for your help. Also, I do not know how to back and look at messages sent to me after I move away from them.  Valley and several others hae been very helpful.

Hi look.  Let me put your PM question here since taper questions must be on the open forum. 

 

Hi Challis,

Didn’t know I had a response from my first message.  Thank you.  I am very concerned.  Still having what I assumed were Mirtazapine withdrawal symptoms.  If this is from Klonopin, what do need to do? 

I appreciate all your help.

Lookinup

 

 

I answered your September 15th post, since you PMd me im guessing you saw it, but I’ll copy it here anyway because I’m probably going to repeat myself.

 

 

Hi Look,

 

It is possible to feel withdrawal symptoms after being on the same dose for awhile.  Benzodiazepines tend to work for awhile and then lose their therapeutic value.  This is called tolerance. At that point an increase is needed to attain therapeutic value again. If no increase happens usually tolerance will turn into something referred to as 'tolerance withdrawal', which is when the user starts feeling withdrawal symptoms while still taking the same dose.  At that point one either holds at that dose and is symptomatic, increases the dose or stops taking it.

 

Ambien is a z-drug.  Z-drugs are very similar to benzodiazepines, same dependence and withdrawal issues, same changes to the body and brain. 

 

What dose of Ambien are you taking and for how long?

 

Many forum members will pass up posts with no information.  Here's how you can add it: go up to Profile, then Forum Profile, add your benzodiazepine and z-drug history (dose and taper, if any) and save it.  I can help if you need help.

 

Challis

Hi Challis, just saw this.  Can’t find my response, so don’t know if I got back to you. Anyway, is okay to stay and be symptomatic for a little bit of time? Don’t want to updose as I would like to start a taper when things calm down a little.  Do you recommend a taper of the Ambien or Klonopin first?  Ambien about 7.5 for 4 months.  Klonopin .5 for about 20 years!  Thank you for your help. Also, I do not know how to back and look at messages sent to me after I move away from them.  Valley and several others hae been very helpful.

Hi Challis.  How do I find the response form Valley?  I am still feeling horrible and getting numbness now.  Don’t know if I should updose a little and try breaking down my once a day dose of .5 K or what I should be doing.  Thank you