klonopin paradoxical, not sure how convert to valium, do I need hospital?

Hi, hve been on bit of klon, low valium and ambien for sleep.

 

Klon the other day set me into bad ithdrawal...  sweatingterror could not talk much.  So since it that bad thought I'd switch that to valium, altho I am not sure ho uch as brain is mush now.

 

I took about the right amount i think and today cannot move.  Scared all alone and inert.

Is it time to go to hospital?  This has gotten untenable.

 

And o very long am so worn down... 2 years 7 months

 

thanks whoever might read this

Way the mix i dont think its good to mix benzo

0.50 k = 10 val if i think you shuld updose the valium

To 14 and ditch the k

Hi, hve been on bit of klon, low valium and ambien for sleep.

 

Klon the other day set me into bad ithdrawal...  sweatingterror could not talk much.  So since it that bad thought I'd switch that to valium, altho I am not sure ho uch as brain is mush now.

 

I took about the right amount i think and today cannot move.  Scared all alone and inert.

Is it time to go to hospital?  This has gotten untenable.

 

And o very long am so worn down... 2 years 7 months

 

thanks whoever might read this

 

Barbara,

 

I don't know what the best course of action is for you but if you feel you should go to the hospital maybe you should. You have been suffering a very long time. I really feel you need some sort of medical intervention at this point, either through the hospital or your doctor.

Barbara, your k would equal 1.6 mgs of valium. If it's bothering you, as it seems to be, why not combine it with your present dose of valium? I would check with your doc or whoever is prescribing this as you will need more valium.

 

I'm not sure what you think would be done for you in the hospital. But if you feel you need to go, go. When I went to the ER in a panic over my valium I had to physically restrain them from putting Ativan in my IV.

 

I know you're in a mess and you think you will never climb out of this. But taking k and valium at the same time surely can't be helping.

 

If it were me, I would consult my doc about getting on all valium as k seems to be not agreeing with you. I'm surprised anyone left you on both drugs.

 

A question: is the Ambien helping you sleep? Just wondering.

 

I sure hope you can get to feeling better.

 

 

Katz

i was writing long reply and it vanished.  too tired now to continue

 

biggest prob i nobody i here... i feel alone and i am.  like last person on the planet.

 

i am ditchin klon for less than 3 mg valium.

 

will write more later.

 

just wish ther a some social service or church or anything that cared if i lived odr died.

OK, I was on klon, tapering.  Switched to valium.  Felt crappy on it and someone here on BB helped me figure how to get back to klon.

 

I only got halfway there so was on about half klon/ half valium.

 

NJ,

 

Dr. said to take phenobarb and get some sleep.  He rx-ed 7 tablets, smallest dose (.32 I think).

BUT before could get them, the klonopin turned on me so that taking it I feel awful.  So trying all valium but not sure it any better I very dizzy and seems now benzos bring on the symptoms.

When I talked to dr. this was not the case-- bad timing.

I don't know why this has happened.

Katz,

 

Well yes I am doing what you suggested atually.  Trying for all valium but boy, I feeling that, too.  People talk about interdose withdrawal, etc.  but it is like I take them and feel worse!  Maybe need to get off asap or take something else to cover (so many take gabapentin, etc...  I don't know.  Dr has rx'ed that.  And he knows I have Lyrica.)

 

Yes it seems impossible.

 

The ambien helped one night when I took the whole thing.  But then another night, it did not and I felt worse.

So in a word, I am not sure on that at this point either.

 

If they are all toxic to me now what on earth do I do?  How fast can I get off this stuff and how?

Barbara, I get it.

 

You were tapering k, switched to valium (why?) then felt bad on valium and tried to go back to k and got stuck because you felt bad all over again. And now you are on both drugs and feeling awful.

 

Okay. I think crossovers are horrible. I've been there. Did no one warn you that you were likely to feel bad? I felt like hell crossing from Ativan to valium, but I persisted because valium is a better drug to taper from.

 

If it were me (I said this yesterday) I would figure out my equivalent dosage of valium for the k I was on (it's 1.6) and add it to your present valium.  And commit yourself to it. Throw out that blasted k. It doesn't seem to make you feel good. One drug to taper is enough. Maybe start a DLMT -- that will be easiest on your body. You worry about interdose w/ds --- then take the drug twice a day. If you still have them, take it three times. Figure out what will cause you the least pain.

 

But you know what -- here's the dirty rotten truth -- NOTHING is going to make you feel good. Getting off benzos will, though. After awhile. We all had to suffer, Barbara. For many of us our s/x were Godawful. Many of us thought we'd die. But we persisted. There is no pain-free taper. All we can do is try to adjust our taper rate so as to cause ourselves the least discomfort. And in all the years I've been on here, I've never seen a supplement or an adjunct drug that helps tapers in any meaningful way. There is no "magic bullet".

 

So, that's what I'd do.

 

And if you are not taking that Ambien regularly, I'd throw it away, too. It's just complicating things. If you ARE taking it regularly and it's not doing you any good, I'd combine its valium-equivalent dose with your other valium and taper it, too. But as valium. FYI 10 mgs of Ambien = 7.5 mgs of valium.

 

You say you don't know what to do -- I've outlined a plan. I would do it in a heartbeat if I were in your shoes. It would simplify your life immensely.

 

Of course, check with your doctor and let her/him know what you want to do.

 

Hope you can feel better.

 

Katz 

Barbara, I get it.

 

You were tapering k, switched to valium (why?) then felt bad on valium and tried to go back to k and got stuck because you felt bad all over again. And now you are on both drugs and feeling awful.<<

 

Why?  Someone in fb BR group said to do this as per Ashton and I believed them.

 

>>Okay. I think crossovers are horrible. I've been there. Did no one warn you that you were likely to feel bad? I felt like hell crossing from Ativan to valium, but I persisted because valium is a better drug to taper from. <<

 

No was not warned.

 

If it were me (I said this yesterday) I would figure out my equivalent dosage of valium for the k I was on (it's 1.6) and add it to your present valium.  And commit yourself to it. Throw out that blasted k. It doesn't seem to make you feel good. One drug to taper is enough.<<

 

Yes think going all valium.

 

Maybe start a DLMT -- that will be easiest on your body. You worry about interdose w/ds --- then take the drug twice a day. If you still have them, take it three times. Figure out what will cause you the least pain.<<

 

No I don't worry about that, I'm mostly unable to function all the time but always took clonopin at night.  Sleep was always my worst issue tho now I have more issues than that.  I also think the valium makes me feel crappy and thought I'd take 2 3/4 mg not the slightly less than 3 and see if I can tolerate that.  Not sure about liquid as when I take it, right off, feel horrible.  I don't know if tha twill change-- this is new.  So liqid would be absorbed faster so not sure about that.

But sure that would be way more exact... and the little scales can't be all that accurate

 

 

But you know what -- here's the dirty rotten truth -- NOTHING is going to make you feel good. Getting off benzos will, though. After awhile. We all had to suffer, Barbara. For many of us our s/x were Godawful. Many of us thought we'd die. But we persisted. There is no pain-free taper. All we can do is try to adjust our taper rate so as to cause ourselves the least discomfort. And in all the years I've been on here, I've never seen a supplement or an adjunct drug that helps tapers in any meaningful way. There is no "magic bullet".

 

So, that's what I'd do.

 

And if you are not taking that Ambien regularly, I'd throw it away, too. It's just complicating things. If you ARE taking it regularly and it's not doing you any good, I'd combine its valium-equivalent dose with your other valium and taper it, too. But as valium. FYI 10 mgs of Ambien = 7.5 mgs of valium.<<

 

I am taking it regularly.  I was not originally, but was told to hold where I was be consistent.  So ambien also consistent and every night.  Really so you don't go by Ashton on the Ambien dose?

 

You say you don't know what to do -- I've outlined a plan. I would do it in a heartbeat if I were in your shoes. It would simplify your life immensely.<<

 

Of course, check with your doctor and let her/him know what you want to do.

 

Thanks he thinks I need at least 5 or 6 hrs of sleep to taper off.  He suggested phenobarb. ?

 

Hope you can feel better.

 

Katz

<<

 

Thank you.

Barbara I checked again on Ashton's equivalence tables and she gives zolpidem (generic Ambien) an equivalence of 20 mgs of valium for 10 mgs of zolpidem. Not 7.5 as I mistakenly stated. (Sorry. I was looking at zopiclone). So you can calculate your corresponding dose. I'm not sure how much Ambien/zolpidem you are on.

 

It will take a lot of guts, I know to make these big changes. But I think your taper will go better when you do. Surely being on one drug will be better than being on three.

 

Again, be sure to check this out with your doctor. She/he needs to know what you plan to do.

 

I don't know what to tell you about phenobarbital. It's a sedative hypnotic and is easy to get addicted to.

 

I know this may sound silly and simplistic but I drink camomille tea and did all through my taper. Challis did, and does, too. It gives me a great sleep. I brew a double-strength cup at night and sleep very soundly. I tried probably a dozen things on my taper and nothing worked as well as this. Maybe give it a try before the phenol? I'd hate to see you get hooked on something else.

 

Katz

Barbara I checked again on Ashton's equivalence tables and she gives zolpidem (generic Ambien) an equivalence of 20 mgs of valium for 10 mgs of zolpidem.

 

A small correction.  I think you misread the table.  I am looking at the manual and the chart on p. 11-12 indicates that 20 mg of Ambien/Zolpeden is equivalent to 10 mg of Valium.  The last column in that table lists the equivalent amount of the drug to 10 mg of valium.  If you look at the first medicine in the table, it is for Xanax.  The last column for that drug shows .5 mg.  This is means that .5mg of xanax is the rough equivalent to 10 mg of valium.

So is a 10 mg ambien/zolpiden = 5 mg valium?

So if take a bit less, estimating 8 mg ambien/z that =4 mg valium?

 

 

I think that's right, Barbara.

So for 2 days no klon and just valium and ambien...  and so ick.  lying in bed and can't move.  i took half of phenobarb and no sleep.  Gues will try whole one tonight.

An oTC that sometimes work also did not, unisom.

1 hr sleep in all.

 

So do I stick wit this, explore if ambien  heping at all, try take something for sleep somehow? 

Just wnt to get somehat functional... nobody here to help me.

Barbara:

 

So for 2 days no klon and just valium and ambien... 

 

How did you convert the klon to valium? What is your total valium dosage now? If you're not sleeping, my guess is that Ambien isn't helping you at all. What do you think?

 

Are you consulting your doc about any of this?

 

 

Katz

 

 

 

someone helped me convert it. 

Am on < 3 valium.

 

i will talk to dr after taking a phenobrb as he said for sleep

 

Feel like  a failure that I have caved already.

 

Was having terror and throwing up and very dizzy/wobbly.  Plus some sort of eyelid infection-- puffy red, dry skin and it feels tight.  No idea how could go to a dr. like this.

 

3 mg. valium did not handle this ;((((

 

Caved and took .017 klon and could not think enough to know how many mg that is (have to convert, that is the weight of amt taken-- less than I was on which was .025 g of the pill.

 

I think my cocktail of stuff just impossible to deal with and I try to simplify and cannot manage at all.  Maybe in a different setting with support or people or help but it is terrifying just me stuck here.  Feel out of control and so scared.

Hey Barb..

I feel for you..

 

I saw a new “Rescue Remedy” product (the brand name) at the chemist today.. I wondered if its what some have been talking about here..?? I didnt recognise any benzo PAM’s in it, but im no expert..

-I do remember desert rose, and no pashion flower or valarian...  -Not that I would be too worried about natural PAM’s at this point were it me...

 

Did you try the chamomile tea that was mentioned..?

 

I do hope you can find some social support, or any support IRL, But it can be so hard if we cant first feel a bit better... It was the topic at my Drs today..

 

Sending strength and best wishes..

 

 

Feel like  a failure that I have caved already.

 

Was having terror and throwing up and very dizzy/wobbly.  Plus some sort of eyelid infection-- puffy red, dry skin and it feels tight.  No idea how could go to a dr. like this.

 

3 mg. valium did not handle this ;((((

 

Caved and took .017 klon and could not think enough to know how many mg that is (have to convert, that is the weight of amt taken-- less than I was on which was .025 g of the pill.

 

I think my cocktail of stuff just impossible to deal with and I try to simplify and cannot manage at all.  Maybe in a different setting with support or people or help but it is terrifying just me stuck here.  Feel out of control and so scared.

 

Barbara are you on .017 of K or .17? It's a huge difference and would make a difference in how much Valium to take.

 

I am sorry you are in a bad way. I have said this previously ... I do think you need a big change, as others have suggested maybe ditching everything for the Valium is the right call, but you need to make sure you have a doctor on board so you don't run out of valium. It sounds like whatever the ashton equivalent if for ambien, it is a lot more than 3 mg V.

 

I hope you can find a way. I think you need to find a way to get stable before worrying about how to taper.

 

 

hi NJ.

Wh

the .017 g is by weight of klon.  To get mg of it you have to divide by .171 and multiply by .5... which I can't do right now!  Maybe someone can.  Too fuzzed.  That is how much clon I am on.    It would be less than the .88 mg of klon I was on before... does that make sense?

 

The dr. thinks if I get phenobarb onboard then cn reduce the benzos.  He says I'm crazy sensitive to them and even wondered should I get off... but thinks I can if very slowly and mayb e  with the phenobarb.

 

meanhile said add bck some of the klon but probably keep the 3 mg of valium.

 

 

;(Yes agree getting stable is what I need cuz can't function a'9t all  throwing up and staggering around

I would just stay on the nightly Ambien rather than converting it to Valium.  Just switchover one thing at a time.  The Ambien is the last thing that you need to taper off.  It is the tapering of a mixed of different weights of different medications that is making the situation hard to follow.

hi NJ.

Wh

the .017 g is by weight of klon.  To get mg of it you have to divide by .171 and multiply by .5... which I can't do right now!  Maybe someone can.  Too fuzzed.  That is how much clon I am on.    It would be less than the .88 mg of klon I was on before... does that make sense?

 

The dr. thinks if I get phenobarb onboard then cn reduce the benzos.  He says I'm crazy sensitive to them and even wondered should I get off... but thinks I can if very slowly and mayb e  with the phenobarb.

 

meanhile said add bck some of the klon but probably keep the 3 mg of valium.

 

Barbara, that weight, is it of a 1 mg tablet or a .5 mg tablet. It is really a low dose I think, if it is .5 mg tablet if I am doing the math right you would be on .05 of klonopin.

 

I don't know about the phenobarb. It is very addictive, more than benzos. I wish you didn't have to go on that but you clearly need a different strategy. Hope today is a better day.

it is a .5 mg tablet.  weighs .171 g.

 

Agree that weighing everything i getting crazy.  It can't be very accurate with crumbs.

 

I think need to put the clon into liquid.  I thought it a o little could just stop it but no!

 

I guess it is another board which discusses how you disolve  clon?

 

You know when i come on BB and click 'see replies to omy message,' only rarely do i see them.  like here I as lucky realized had to go bck to main board and to itdhrwal before they would show up.

 

Hard when you are out of it.

 

Yeah, better than it was at least...