help please

I need some benzo experts as I will need to reinstate on a benzo for sleep due to anxiety.  Please share benzo types and what would be easier (temazepam versus klonopin).  I've tried so much to sleep and can't get any.  In 2017 I was in a pych ward due to insomnia. 

I was put on a benzo for sleep originally by a sleep doctor. I would say there are other options that might work for insomnia that are not as awful to get off of ... trazodone, remeron come to mind. Medical marijuana is wonderful. There are many herbal/nutritional supplements that are wonderful for sleep.

 

Just my opinion. I have now been on klonopin 20 years and can't get off. If/when I do get off, I will never take again.

Hi Charlene,

 

None of us here are benzo experts.  Having been on a benzodiazepine (temazepam) on and off for a few decades, in order to sleep I had to have my dose increased over time until I again was no longer able to sleep and had a drug dependency to deal with to boot. So that wouldn’t be my recommendation.  I’d look for other solutions, personally.

 

Challis

 

 

Ambien 7.5 (4 months) and .5 Klonopin for 2 decades, 3 months of Prozac 5 mg. Taper Ambien first? Want off all of them!

IMO all Benzos and Rx drugs used for "sleep" are dead end roads and they ALL quit working over time.  IMO it's best to deal with the lack of sleep without reaching for something to artificially knock you out.  It gets better over time.  I would have gladly taken the "insomnia" I had prior to Benzos compared to the WD insomnia I had after I stopped taking Benzos.  It was 10x worse and I would go for days without any perceived sleep.  IMO drugs are never the answer.  CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) is just as effective as Benzos for sleep for 85% of the people.  Natural sleep supplements are better options than Rx drugs, but are not without risk.  BTW 8 hours per night is a myth.  You can survive and function on A LOT less.  Good luck!

BTW 8 hours per night is a myth.  You can survive and function on A LOT less.  Good luck!

 

It isn't a myth. 7-9 hours is recommended in the scientific literature. Sure, you can survive on less, but it isn't healthy.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501144324/

BTW 8 hours per night is a myth.  You can survive and function on A LOT less.  Good luck!

 

It isn't a myth. 7-9 hours is recommended in the scientific literature. Sure, you can survive on less, but it isn't healthy.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501144324/

 

I got by on a fraction of that much sleep for a very long time and did not even catch a cold when everyone else in my family had one during that time period. It was not a happy time, but it did not seem to have much negative impact on my health. Anxiety about one's health due to poor sleep does not help with sleeping at all.

BTW 8 hours per night is a myth.  You can survive and function on A LOT less.  Good luck!

 

It isn't a myth. 7-9 hours is recommended in the scientific literature. Sure, you can survive on less, but it isn't healthy.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501144324/

 

I got by on a fraction of that much sleep for a very long time and did not even catch a cold when everyone else in my family had one during that time period. It was not a happy time, but it did not seem to have much negative impact on my health. Anxiety about one's health due to poor sleep does not help with sleeping at all.

 

No, for short term it may not have much of an effect. Long term it certainly does. That's clear. You are lucky that it doesn't seem to affect you. Everything for me is worse if I don't sleep enough. I was up for 40+ hours a few weeks ago, and that felt like psychosis. The books a good read, I recommend it. The chapter on sleep and mental health was very enlightening.

BTW 8 hours per night is a myth.  You can survive and function on A LOT less.  Good luck!

 

It isn't a myth. 7-9 hours is recommended in the scientific literature. Sure, you can survive on less, but it isn't healthy.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501144324/

 

I got by on a fraction of that much sleep for a very long time and did not even catch a cold when everyone else in my family had one during that time period. It was not a happy time, but it did not seem to have much negative impact on my health. Anxiety about one's health due to poor sleep does not help with sleeping at all.

 

No, for short term it may not have much of an effect. Long term it certainly does. That's clear. You are lucky that it doesn't seem to affect you. Everything for me is worse if I don't sleep enough. I was up for 40+ hours a few weeks ago, and that felt like psychosis. The books a good read, I recommend it. The chapter on sleep and mental health was very enlightening.

 

I was referring to my physical health. I was an emotional wreck during the extreme sleep deprivation, but bounced back once sleep began to return. The real point that I was trying to make is that it is probably not a good idea to bring up how important sleep is to folks who would love to sleep, but can't due to withdrawal. They have enough reasons to be anxious.

BTW 8 hours per night is a myth.  You can survive and function on A LOT less.  Good luck!

 

It isn't a myth. 7-9 hours is recommended in the scientific literature. Sure, you can survive on less, but it isn't healthy.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501144324/

 

Not trying to start a "debate" but you quoted 2 sources.  I could literally find dozens of sources that say Benzos are "safe" for long term use too, but that "science" doesn't make it true. The reality is no one knows why we sleep or how much we need?  There are guidelines the same as with nutrition, but everyone is different.  I went for more than 40 hours without any perceived sleep at least 20 times if not more and I didn't have psychosis or any other physical symptoms or illness, not even a cold from lack of sleep! My grandmother had insomnia and lived on about 4-5 hours per night average and lived to be 97! The point is you are conditioned to believe that you need X number of hours each night or else.  And that is a MYTH and simply not provable by "science" or anything else.  There is substantial evidence that shows prior to the industrial revolution and artificial lighting that we had two distinct sleep periods where most people would sleep for about 3-4 hours and then be awake for an hour or two and then sleep another 3-4 hours.  Modern sleep experiments proved the same thing.  People that were isolated in total darkness eventually developed a 2 phase sleep routine after about 4 weeks or so.  Therefore, an argument could be made that we need 2 distinct sleep periods or else?  And as Aloha said, your post telling people they need 7-9 hours or else is helping them how?

 

 

BTW 8 hours per night is a myth.  You can survive and function on A LOT less.  Good luck!

 

It isn't a myth. 7-9 hours is recommended in the scientific literature. Sure, you can survive on less, but it isn't healthy.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501144324/

 

Not trying to start a "debate" but you quoted 2 sources.  I could literally find dozens of sources that say Benzos are "safe" for long term use too, but that "science" doesn't make it true. The reality is no one knows why we sleep or how much we need?  There are guidelines the same as with nutrition, but everyone is different.  I went for more than 40 hours without any perceived sleep at least 20 times if not more and I didn't have psychosis or any other physical symptoms or illness, not even a cold from lack of sleep! My grandmother had insomnia and lived on about 4-5 hours per night average and lived to be 97! The point is you are conditioned to believe that you need X number of hours each night or else.  And that is a MYTH and simply not provable by "science" or anything else.  There is substantial evidence that shows prior to the industrial revolution and artificial lighting that we had two distinct sleep periods where most people would sleep for about 3-4 hours and then be awake for an hour or two and then sleep another 3-4 hours.  Modern sleep experiments proved the same thing.  People that were isolated in total darkness eventually developed a 2 phase sleep routine after about 4 weeks or so.  Therefore, an argument could be made that we need 2 distinct sleep periods or else?  And as Aloha said, your post telling people they need 7-9 hours or else is helping them how?

 

I brought up one source. It is the same person. I can see that you couldn't be bothered to check either link out.  I can show many more that make it clear how much sleep you need. I'm not going to debate you, as you are using anecdotal evidence against a huge amount of science. I can't change your mind. You said it is a myth, and I believe you are wrong. Some people believe the Earth is flat and I've learned that it is utterly futile to argue with them.

 

If you read the book or watched the interview, he discusses biphasic sleep and gives you good reason why it was a cultural artifact.

 

I'm not trying to stress anyone out. I posted the links as BBers can learn a lot about how to improve their sleep even while enduring this nightmare we are in (I got less than 3 hours last night). I was truly trying to help people, not add to peoples' already considerable stress.

 

Is that clear? I see good solid sources of tested scientific evidence as valuable. That process removes opinion and speculation. Something that is unfortunately rampant.

 

So, that said, in an effort to help out others that have an open mind and are willing to improve their sleeping situation, I'll post a link to another great source. Choose to read it or not.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Sleep-Solution-Why-Your-Broken/dp/0399583610/

 

Here is a Ted Talk that is shorter but cover essentially the same ground:

 

https://www.ted.com/talks/russell_foster_why_do_we_sleep?

 

Once again: These sources will help you to sleep better even while you are in BWD. Don't read more into that.

Your so called "science" is just anecdotal too.  The word "science" means "knowledge."  And the best "knowledge" they have to date is incomplete and limited as to why we even need to sleep or how much we need.  There's nothing proven.  You have way too much faith and hide behind the word "science" as if it cannot be refuted.  True science is "falsifiable" which means that any theory must have a method that can prove it false in order for it to be true and nothing with sleep can be proven one way or the other.  And to make the comparison to a flat earth is ridiculous.  I didn't say people didn't need to sleep at all.  I said and will continue to say 8 hours a night or else is a myth!  Many survive on 4, 5 or 6 per night with ZERO ill effects.  I couldn't check the 2nd source as it said the youtube video was unavailable when I clicked on the link  And the publication you referenced "contains the opinions and ideas of its author" and that's hardly authoritative.  Not too many copies would sell if there wasn't a "hidden agenda" that you have to sleep or else!  And regardless of your intent, it is a trigger to tell some people they need X amount of sleep or else something bad will happen.  Facts don't care about your feelings.  You said you weren't going to debate, yet here you are?

 

"But no one knows what sleep actually does. It's sort of embarrassing," said Dr. Michael Halassa, a neuroscientist at New York University. "It's obvious why we need to eat, for example, and reproduce … but it's not clear why we need to sleep at all."  We're vulnerable when we're asleep, so whatever sleep does, it must be worth the risk of the brain taking itself mostly offline. There are a few theories about why we sleep, and although none of them are totally solid, a few try to explain what happens each night, pulling in research on topics ranging from cellular processes to cognition.  https://www.livescience.com/32469-why-do-we-sleep.html

Your so called "science" is just anecdotal too.  The word "science" means "knowledge."  And the best "knowledge" they have to date is incomplete and limited as to why we even need to sleep or how much we need.  There's nothing proven.  You have way too much faith and hide behind the word "science" as if it cannot be refuted.  True science is "falsifiable" which means that any theory must have a method that can prove it false in order for it to be true! and nothing with sleep can be proven one way or the other!  And to make the comparison to a flat earth is ridiculous.  I didn't say people didn't need to sleep at all.  I said and will continue to say 8 hours a night or else is a myth!  Many survive on 4, 5 or 6 per night with ZERO ill effects.  I couldn't check the 2nd source as it said the youtube video was unavailable when I clicked on the link  And the publication you referenced "contains the opinions and ideas of its author" and that's hardly authoritative! Not too many copies would sell if there wasn't a "hidden agenda" that you have to sleep or else!  And regardless of your intent, it is a trigger to tell some people they need X amount of sleep or else something bad will happen.  Facts don't care about your feelings.  You said you weren't going to debate, yet here you are!

 

"But no one knows what sleep actually does. It's sort of embarrassing," said Dr. Michael Halassa, a neuroscientist at New York University. "It's obvious why we need to eat, for example, and reproduce … but it's not clear why we need to sleep at all."  We're vulnerable when we're asleep, so whatever sleep does, it must be worth the risk of the brain taking itself mostly offline. There are a few theories about why we sleep, and although none of them are totally solid, a few try to explain what happens each night, pulling in research on topics ranging from cellular processes to cognition.  https://www.livescience.com/32469-why-do-we-sleep.html

 

I think you need to use some more exclamation points, ThEwAy2. Please make sure your anger and indignation don't consume you.

I didn't write the post with anger or indignation, but only to inform and to provide "correct" information so others are not mislead into thinking it's 8 hours or else.  I would worry more about recovering than trying to disagree with my posts and resorting to an "ad hominem" attack on my mental state when writing a post. 

I didn't write the post with anger or indignation, but only to inform and to provide "correct" information so others are not mislead into thinking it's 8 hours or else.  I would worry more about recovering than trying to disagree with my posts then resorting to an "ad hominem" attack on my mental state when writing a post.

 

I'm glad you have been able to calm down.