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Zopiclone


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Thanks to my withdrawal symptoms from Mirtazapine easing significantly early last week, I have started cutting the Zopiclone. I started taking this drug on 23rd July. I was on an average of about 1 and a quarter 7.5mg tablets which is the equivalent of 6.25 mg of Valium. I am now down to 5/8ths of a tablet. I have been cutting on a daily or once every two days.

 

 

Hi Ivan,

I have questions about your taper.

7.5 mg = 1 pill zolpiclone

Your starting dosage was 1 pill and a quarter= 7.5 mg + 1.9mg = 9.4 mg

According to Ashton you would have to cut down 10% every 2 weeks or even slower.

>But you said you have been cutting every day or every second day??

>And you started to cut LAST week? And you are now on about 4,7 mg?

This is WAY TO FAST!

Why do you hurry so badly? I would recommend to taper like Ashton says in her protocol.

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I am finding that my sleep is not be affected by this rapid taper. I started taking the drug around two months ago. The dose was almost always kept at 5mg of Valium or for a short while at 6.25mg. And maybe for a couple of days it wears at 10mg equivalent. So I haven’t been on it much longer than the recommended maximum. If I had found myself being unable to sleep I would not have reduced it so quickly. If I applied the Ashton approach to this situation my taper would have lasted much longer than the time I was on the drug.

 

Zopiclone is a nasty drug which I took when I was desperately trying to survive the terrible aching from Mirtazapine withdrawal. I believe that Professor Ashton method applies to people who have been using benzodiazepines and Z drugs for an extended period. I successfully got off Mogadon last year much more quickly than I expected.

 

Another drug in the benzodiazepine family is Ativan. This drug is absolutely lethal. I was burning all the time I was taking it. My decision was after only five weeks was to get off it asap. I just couldn’t stand the side effects.

 

By the way, Marigold, I have written to the psychiatrist to tell I have decided my body needs a break from psychiatric drugs and psychiatry. I told him that I have listened to his concerns that I am risking depression by choosing this course of action. But my body just cannot cope with another set of side effects.

 

I feel very strongly that the danger associated with high doses of antidepressants are not made clear to people. And some of the material on the internet downplays the problem of dependency and the awful withdrawal symptoms which can occur when one chooses to or has to get off them. I tried to get a newspaper in this country to run a series of investigative articles on the subject but they just ignored me.

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Hi again Marigold,

 

I think I will have to take your advice and go a bit slower with my withdrawal from Zopiclone. I attempted to get down to a quarter of a tablet last night. The result was little sleep. I will up the dose again tonight and go much more slowly from now on. I have managed to get down from 1 and a quarter tablets to around 5/8 so I am not doing too badly.

 

I do think I will have to deal with some insomnia at some point on the evidence of last night. But going slowly does seem to be the way to go.

 

My loathing of the impact of antidepressants - thanks to the truly appalling withdrawal I have gone has affected me very much. And I just want a break from psychiatry and psychiatric drugs. But I must get off them in a sensible way.

 

Bye for now and thanks,

 

Ivan.

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I would like some advice. I have managed to get down to 3.75mg of Zopiclone but it seems that with such a short acting drug it is going to be hard to get lower without having insomnia. My Mirtazapine withdrawal symptoms although much more bearable are still with me. So I am wondering if switching to a longer acting drug maybe Temazepam maybe easier to get off.
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I would like some advice. I have managed to get down to 3.75mg of Zopiclone but it seems that with such a short acting drug it is going to be hard to get lower without having insomnia. My Mirtazapine withdrawal symptoms although much more bearable are still with me. So I am wondering if switching to a longer acting drug maybe Temazepam maybe easier to get off.

 

five days before you were on about 6.? mg, now you are on 3.75 mg. I told you that according to ashton its going too fast. Why didn't you go slower like you said? Every 14 days 2% less of a dosage. Thats all I have to say here.

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I have actually been on 3.75 or a fragment above that for over a week. I go to bed and take half a tablet. If I wake up in the middle of the night, I take the fragments which is about an eighth of a tablet. I want to go down further but not necessarily in a hurry. If I can reduce and sleep ok why wouldn’t I?

 

The problem is that Zopiclone is a very short acting drug so on low doses it is not going to work through the night whereas Temazepam might.

 

Marigold if you are reading this, I have been through all this a year ago with Mogadon and Ativan. Dr Ashton understands that slow tapers are not always appropriate especially from low doses of lethal benzodiazepines such as Ativan. I could not endure the symptoms the drug was giving me of burning throughout my whole body. At the same I came off Mogadon and quickly and was able to sleep after I stopped.

 

This time I am reducing the Zopiclone and so far I have been having sufficient sleep. I don’t want to leave the next cut for too long as I will be getting too used to .5mg plus the fragment which some nights I take and sometimes I don’t. If I am getting back to sleep quickly in the middle of the night I don’t take it.

 

Tapering when sleep is involved is a kind of experimental process. The last bit getting from half a tablet to nothing is the hardest bit. The tablet is small so cutting it into an eighth is the best I can hope for.

 

My GP is on holiday and I have become so alienated by the psychiatrist and his drugs I have cancelled my appointment with him. So I am doing this on my own at the moment.

 

I will go slowly from now on but I am wondering if it’s better to use Temazepam may make the process easier than Zopiclone. That’s why I posted.

 

The symptoms of Mirtazapine withdrawal seemed to be going away but have disappointingly returned. So I have that to worry about too. I first had these “discontinuation “ symptoms on May 27th. They have been extremely severe and now are dissipating somewhat but are still there intruding on my thoughts all the time.

 

I just want to get off all psychiatric drugs as soon as I can and allow my body to have a rest.

 

But as you say Marigold I have to be patient and not rush it.

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Which other meds are you currently taking?

I think at one point you need to make a decision. Even if you can find a longer acting benzo now in order to switch from zopiclone, - that one has to be tapered as well and in case you are still on other meds you never know how the combination acts. Temazepam has a totally different "feeling" than zolpiclone, it may have more side effects in day time though. In the world of meds you never get something for free, you know.

 

If I were you I would stick to the situation as it is today and go very very slowly down with the zopiclone. I would accept some weeks with little sleep and give myself time to recover. It seems you have found a good pattern how to reduce it and in case you freak out there is the solution with taking that "fragment" in the middle of the night. I think its a good way to handle it. By the way even with temazepam, you might suffer from insomnia in the end.

 

When it comes to sleep everyone including myself tends to freak out. but you do not know if it will be that bad. It can also happen that you only have a week with less sleep and then start to find back to normal sleep.

Did you consider to take natural helpers now that you get nearer to the zero? Like lavender oil capsules?

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Hi Marigold,

 

I am taking one other medication which is Endep, a tricyclic anti-depressant. The dose is 10mg and it has been prescribed off label to assist with sleep. I was on 20mg but reduced it because I was having stomach problems which have now gone away. This drug has helped me; it has enabled me to get sufficient sleep so that I did not stay on two tablets of 7.5mg Zopiclone which I had got up to a few weeks ago. This dose is very low. It is equivalent to 4.2mg of Mirtazapine (and I was on 90mg of that drug). I do not envisage any problem reducing it to zero when the time comes.

 

No, I haven't investigated herbal treatments but I have not taken any caffeine or chocolate after 4pm for a long time.

 

The big issue for me at present is surviving the Mirtazapine withdrawal. I am still experiencing quite a bit of aching though not near what it was like at its peak when it intruded on all of my thoughts all the time.

 

If I put myself under pressure or have a bad night's sleep the aching gets worse or at least appears to get worse. This happened to me on Thursday and yesterday. So I do need to be careful about how quickly I reduce the Zopiclone from now on. I have been taking Zopiclone at various levels for 68 days at an average of 1.1 tablets a day. A Valium equivalency would be a total of 374mgs at an average dose of 5.5mg a day. So I have not taken a great deal. I have done very well - given the horrific withdrawal symptoms I have experienced - to keep it down to this average and to reduce it. If I had taken the psychiatrist's advice I would now be on 2mg of Clonazepam (40mg of Valium equivalent) and almost certainly a higher dose of Zopiclone.

 

What I am likely to do is try to hold the Zopiclone dose to half a tablet with maybe a fragment in the middle of the night until I see the GP on 10th October. I am going to be confronting him with two issues: how to get off the Zopiclone and what to do next now that I have ruled out taking anti-depressants again. My faith in psychiatry has been destroyed by what has happened to me over the last few years. Not many people get given around 78 ECT treatments by well-intentioned but dangerous psychiatrists or are exposed to so many psychiatric drugs with their side effects and withdrawal symptoms as I have.

 

Yesterday I found material about ECT and psychiatric drugs posted on YouTube by Dr Peter Breggin. His description of what actually happens when ECT is administered and how some people are damaged by it made me feel that - in spite of my memory loss - I am lucky because so much worse could have occurred. And my determination to stay off psychiatric drugs once I have got rid of the Zopiclone and Endep is not only governed by my terrible experiences but also by what they can to the body and mind further down the track with increased risks of heart disease, stroke and dementia.

 

Over the last eighteen months I have seen people coming out of the psychiatrist's office looking pleased that they are apparently well - as I did all the while I was taking 90mg of Mirtazapine. But like me, those patients could very well become seriously ill in later life or find that they have to come off the anti-depressants or unwittingly agree to keep taking high doses of benzodiazepines unaware of what may result from this.

 

But this decision does put me in a difficult situation as I also know that I am in danger of becoming depressed. But what I no longer buy into is that high doses of anti-depressants "protect" people from depression. They have never helped me in that way. Indeed, Mirtazapine and this latest withdrawal could easily have caused the very thing the drug was invented to avoid.

 

So be assured, Marigold I am not rushing into anything and, I do accept that at some point soon - depending on how the withdrawal symptoms from Mirtazapine play out - I will  try to come off Zopiclone gradually. I did Google Temazepam versus Zopiclone and it doesn't appear if there is any advantage to switching drugs now that I am down to such a low amount.

 

I will keep you informed as I travel along this journey. I hope everything is on the improve for you.

 

Regards,

 

Ivan.

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The world of psychiatry has only drugs to offer. Do not forget that. Even if your doctor means well the only thing he or she can prescribe are meds.

You haven't checked out natural remedies yet, that is a hole new world. Just want to mention it, that you have only reached the end of the psychiatry-rope but not the end of the rope in general:-)

I know how it feels to be determined to fight against depression more than one time, but if we do not try something new we cannot compare these situations. Yes, you are in danger to fall into depression again, but there is also the chance you might find a new strategy how to find out of depression. My experience is if you have done that once, to break through depression without meds, you will notice you can do that again cause its a learning for you and your brain.

 

However, I keep my fingers crossed for you.  :thumbsup:

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May I pop in here?

 

Ivan

 

I think what marigold1 is trying to tell you how not to get into the polydrug trap that so many find themselves in. Ambien is basically a benzo. And that ridiculous amount of remeron. What I have to agree with is generally speaking, most everyone has to suffer from insomnia at one point or another. I know I did and at one point it was just terrible. But it went away.

 

I had a friend in the ambien boat and it turned against her meaning it caused insomnia so imagine how fun that taper went. I just hope you don’t like up the meds like so many of us have,

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May I pop in here?

 

Ivan

 

I think what marigold1 is trying to tell you how not to get into the polydrug trap that so many find themselves in. Ambien is basically a benzo. And that ridiculous amount of remeron. What I have to agree with is generally speaking, most everyone has to suffer from insomnia at one point or another. I know I did and at one point it was just terrible. But it went away.

 

I had a friend in the ambien boat and it turned against her meaning it caused insomnia so imagine how fun that taper went. I just hope you don’t like up the meds like so many of us have,

 

Did your insomnia go away because you started taking Seroquel?  I still can’t sleep but that stuff can really damage the brain, I would try CBD instead, because that’s my own experience as a safer option.

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I tried different kinds of CBD and they did nothing for me. Medical marijuana played a number on my heart and I had a lot of a fib which nearly sent me to the hospital. I tried.  My body doesn’t agree with it.
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After a week on 1/2 tablet of 7.5mg of Zopiclone I am going to reduce it to 3/8 of a tablet tonight. Hopefully it will go ok. It is now over 12 weeks since I stopped the Mirtazapine. I still ache throughout my body but it has got less so I think that it will eventually go away. I remain really angry about what the psychiatrist did. Prescribing 90mg was absolutely stupid. I will never see him again so I guess there’s no point in maintaining my rage. At least I am no longer on that dose with all the dangers it brings with it.

 

Ivan.

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Fingers are crossed for you.

You seem to handle it pretty well. I think you might even handle some nights with less sleep. Maybe it will all end good and easy for you :thumbsup:

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I did get some sleep after reducing the dose down by what amounts to .625mg or thereabouts. It is difficult to be exact with the tablet. It is so near to zero now and I have been on the drug for such a short time that I have decided to try to get off it altogether ASAP. What I think I will do is try to sleep without it and if I succeed that will be it. My body is still experiencing withdrawal symptoms from Mirtazapine. So being drug free should assist the recovery. I have also got to get off the tiny dose of Endep which I will complete next week.
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Here's today's update. I stuck with the 3/8 of a tablet last night and slept ok even though I woke up early. My plan is to take 3/8ths of a tablet tonight. Then I will take 1/4 of a tablet for three nights. On Wednesday I will take 1/8. I see the GP on Thursday morning. So it is probable - all going well - that I will be off Zopiclone by the end of next week. This has been straightforward so far. I think this is because I took only a small amount of the drug for a short period of time.

 

I have had a terrible time getting off benzodiazepines and Z drugs in the past. What disturbs me is that in spite of publicity about these families of drugs, they are still being prescribed in large doses over ten years on from my first exposure to them. I was amazed that the psychiatrist I was seeing - and who got me into the mess I have gone through with Mirtazapine - wanted me to take .5mg of Clonazepam while my withdrawal from Mirtazapine was at its peak. He said he didn't want to go "gung-ho" with this drug but would have me on 2mg by the end of the week if it was not affecting me badly. That's 40mg of Valium equivalent. If I did not know about benzodiazepines I could easily have been addicted big time. I have tried writing to newspapers. To be fair they have published a couple of my letters. But except for "The Daily Mail" in the UK, editors just don't seem to be interested in running large scale pieces of investigative journalism on the impact of psychiatric drugs.

 

Anyway I will get off my soap box now and go and do other things.

 

Best wishes,

 

Ivan.

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Here is another update. My withdrawal symptoms from Mirtazapine come and go now rather than always intruding on my thoughts like they did for the last four months.

 

I saw my GP yesterday after I had been down to 1/4 of a 7.5mg tablet of Zopiclone for three nights. I have also been taking 10mg of Amitriptyline for sleep. He told me that at such a low dose I might as well come off the Zopiclone. So I didn't take it last night and got some sleep. I am tired today and aching but I am going to stay off the drug and get off the Amitriptyline as soon as I can which will probably be in the next couple of days. And then I will be free of psychiatric drugs though sadly not yet free of their effects.

 

We discussed the advantages and disadvantages of taking psychiatric drugs. The GP came to the conclusion that if I am mentally ok it is best to stay off these drugs given that their side effects and withdrawal symptoms have played havoc with my body over the last twelve years. He also felt that Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is the way to go for me. It is such a relief that at long last I don't have to have my body interfered with any more by these potent drugs.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Here is another update. Unfortunately, so far I have not been able to get off the low dose of Amitriptyline. I also was sleeping so badly that I resumed taking a quarter tablet of Zopiclone. However, the night before last I reduced it to an eighth and last night I slept fairly well with none of the Zopiclone. I see this as a victory. I will wait for a few days before cutting the Amitriptyline. The aching I was experiencing from the Mirtazapine withdrawal has virtually gone. I am incredibly relieved about this as I was led to believe by the moderators and the administrator on survivingantidepressants.org that I was in for a much more protracted withdrawal.

 

My confidence about the future is much improved too to the extent that I have booked a flight to Tokyo in December. So I now feel as if I am in a position to resume planning for the future. The withdrawal was so agonising that I simply put my life on hold and was determined to keep doing as much as I could and see it through.

 

I am aware that I am no longer on high doses of antidepressants to - as the psychiatrist put it - "protect" me. But I am extremely pleased that I am no longer putting myself at risk of side-effects, withdrawal symptoms and heaven only knows what sort of long term damage that these drugs bring with them.

 

I am immensely grateful to my GP for being so balanced in his assessment of the pluses and minuses of taking psychiatric drugs. I have also found a competent thoughtful psychologist to talk to about my predisposition to fall into depression and strategies to keep it at bay.

 

 

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sounds great! Take it easy, and wait until you go down with the next med, okey?

And remember its normal that you do not get full nights of sleep first, the brain needs time.

 

Well done! Very happy for you :smitten:

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Thanks, Marigold. I have been trying to get off the Amitripyline but it is causing me hassles with sleep. I keep waking up very early and am unable to get back to sleep. It was so bad last night I took a fragment of Zopiclone to get some sleep. The trouble with getting off medication for sleep is that I have a lot of busy days. So I don't want to be sleep deprived and dog tired when I am running classes for adults. So what I have decided to do is take your advice and just let things settle before coming off the Amitriptyline. It is such a low dose in any case that taking it isn't likely to lead to the massive issues I had when I came off Mirtazapine.
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