Author Topic: Zopiclone  (Read 923 times)

[Buddie]

Re: Zopiclone
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2019, 12:14:40 pm »
I need to clarify something, Marigold,

It was a psychiatrist who prescribed all of the drugs I have been taking over the last year and a half. By what was probably a fluke I got out of deep depression in the same week as he prescribed Ativan for me. Because I had been so deeply depressed he decided that I needed very high doses of antidepressants. I was uncomfortable with this and with the benzodiazepines and I kept asking to get off drugs. By the end of 2018 I had succeeded in reducing the number of tablets I was taking from maybe 9 in the middle of last year to two. I was pleased with this achievement. I was concerned about such a high dose of Mirtazapine but the psychiatrist reassured me that even if the amount was high it was ok. He didnít warn about the dangers of cutting the drug and I had got off 30mg in the past with no problems. Moreover, I withdrew from 45mg of Lexapro without any side effects.

Then came my mistake which was not to research antidepressant discontinuation a term I had never heard of. Once I came off the drug completely I was living in hell. The aching was overwhelming. And I could hardly sleep. So I reluctantly took the Zopiclone. It was a life saver. Without it there was every chance I could have committed suicide. I managed to keep going once I got some sleep. Even now nine weeks since I stopped the drug I ache but itís now bearable.

I believe the reason I have been able to keep the dose down at this level is because of the antidepressant Endep. I am actually taking it against the advice of the psychiatrist because I donít want to keep increasing the Zopiclone.

My GP is much more conservative about drug prescribing. He tries to avoid benzodiazepines and keeps his patients on the lowest possible dose of antidepressants. He has been seeing me regularly to help me keep on track. He isnít the one who the huge amount of drugs. The psychiatrist did and he is in France at a conference at the moment.

It is the psychiatrist who is guilty of overprescribing. He continues to maintain that I need antidepressants to protect me. He is very much committed to the chemical imbalance theory as a cause of depression. I have had three major bouts of depression all of which started when I was drug free. I cannot dismiss this reality. And as I am struggling to keep afloat in the face of this awful withdrawal from Mirtazapine, I cannot start a process of another withdrawal from Zopiclone. I tried reducing the dose two weeks ago and I had three terrible days without much sleep. Not only was I exhausted the aching seemed even worse as a result.

At the moment I have to be realistic; I want to try to live a life as normal as possible. Today I made two presentations to groups of adults. Without sleep this would not have been possible.

I do understand that you have been damaged by psychiatric drugs. I do appreciate why you are so committed to and proud of being free from psychiatric drugs. But in spite of all the damage psychiatry and psychiatrists have inflicted on me, I am not going to dismiss psychiatric drugs entirely. I did this once in 2013. Three years later I fell into deep dire depression. I donít want this to happen to me again. The result of my last was 56 ECT treatments with a massive loss of memory and two withdrawals from two different psychiatric drugs. So from now on I am to be pragmatic rather than ideological about my situation.

Thanks so much for the immense amount of thought you put into the previous post. When I do come to the point when I am ready to get off Zopiclone I will use many of your suggestions.

[...].
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Zopiclone
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2019, 01:21:30 pm »
I need to clarify something, Marigold,

It was a psychiatrist who prescribed all of the drugs I have been taking over the last year and a half. By what was probably a fluke I got out of deep depression in the same week as he prescribed Ativan for me. Because I had been so deeply depressed he decided that I needed very high doses of antidepressants. I was uncomfortable with this and with the benzodiazepines and I kept asking to get off drugs. By the end of 2018 I had succeeded in reducing the number of tablets I was taking from maybe 9 in the middle of last year to two. I was pleased with this achievement. I was concerned about such a high dose of Mirtazapine but the psychiatrist reassured me that even if the amount was high it was ok. He didnít warn about the dangers of cutting the drug and I had got off 30mg in the past with no problems. Moreover, I withdrew from 45mg of Lexapro without any side effects.

Then came my mistake which was not to research antidepressant discontinuation a term I had never heard of. Once I came off the drug completely I was living in hell. The aching was overwhelming. And I could hardly sleep. So I reluctantly took the Zopiclone. It was a life saver. Without it there was every chance I could have committed suicide. I managed to keep going once I got some sleep. Even now nine weeks since I stopped the drug I ache but itís now bearable.

I believe the reason I have been able to keep the dose down at this level is because of the antidepressant Endep. I am actually taking it against the advice of the psychiatrist because I donít want to keep increasing the Zopiclone.

My GP is much more conservative about drug prescribing. He tries to avoid benzodiazepines and keeps his patients on the lowest possible dose of antidepressants. He has been seeing me regularly to help me keep on track. He isnít the one who the huge amount of drugs. The psychiatrist did and he is in France at a conference at the moment.

It is the psychiatrist who is guilty of overprescribing. He continues to maintain that I need antidepressants to protect me. He is very much committed to the chemical imbalance theory as a cause of depression. I have had three major bouts of depression all of which started when I was drug free. I cannot dismiss this reality. And as I am struggling to keep afloat in the face of this awful withdrawal from Mirtazapine, I cannot start a process of another withdrawal from Zopiclone. I tried reducing the dose two weeks ago and I had three terrible days without much sleep. Not only was I exhausted the aching seemed even worse as a result.

At the moment I have to be realistic; I want to try to live a life as normal as possible. Today I made two presentations to groups of adults. Without sleep this would not have been possible.

I do understand that you have been damaged by psychiatric drugs. I do appreciate why you are so committed to and proud of being free from psychiatric drugs. But in spite of all the damage psychiatry and psychiatrists have inflicted on me, I am not going to dismiss psychiatric drugs entirely. I did this once in 2013. Three years later I fell into deep dire depression. I donít want this to happen to me again. The result of my last was 56 ECT treatments with a massive loss of memory and two withdrawals from two different psychiatric drugs. So from now on I am to be pragmatic rather than ideological about my situation.

Thanks so much for the immense amount of thought you put into the previous post. When I do come to the point when I am ready to get off Zopiclone I will use many of your suggestions.

[...].

I need to clarify, as well.
I am not forcing you to get rid of all meds as soon as possible. I just said, after all the meds you cannot know if you are in withdrawal and zopiclone is highly addictive as well. And that I think the thought to updose in case you have a stressful event or in order to function would be necessary, is dangerous.
I did ask you about your strategies and you wrote several times that you updosed and in this last comment you said you took the additional AD against the will of your doctor. I am just confused about all the dosages and meds.
If you had 3 major depressions without meds, - how did you treat them besides meds? Obviously medication seems not to be a longterm solution for you, right? Its logical that after having stopped a chemical med, you body needs to rebalance and this takes time. You will be more vulnerable and this is the time to learn to cope without meds. Of course all the things you surpassed with meds will then come by again, but this does not mean, you will not be able to cope and to overcome crisis in the future.
In the end, its your body, and you have to find out what is the best for you. And I just want to say that I once thought I would never overcome a PTSD without therapists, doctors, meds, - but it was possible later. I am not an enemy of them. But for me it was 10 years wasted and runining my health and with people who still believe in the old theory of chemical imbalance - I mean, you just cannot work with them. Thats why I searched for alternative strategies, therapies and naturopaths etc. -
Wishing you the best,
Marigold
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Zopiclone
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2019, 08:50:34 am »
 I have read your post carefully, Marigold.However, this withdrawal from Mirtazapine so severe that I have to sleep. If I donít sleep, I will go mad. I now know how heroin addicts or an OxyContin@ addicts must feel when they try to come off those drugs.  I would really like to be drug free.

I did see my doctor today. We made an agreement that I would not updose between now and the next time I see him. He said that in the near future I would have to come off this Zopiclone using the Ashton Method. And the only reason I am taking a very small dose of Endep is to prevent me from taking any more zopiclone. I can already see that Iím going to have trouble with sleep if I stay on the dose of 7.5 mg. However, I will just have to put up with that and not delude myself that there isnít going to be a time when insomnia is going to be a real problem.

 The GP assured me that a low dose of Endep is not dangerous. All I can do is hang in there and hope that this terrible withdrawal from the Mirtazapine eventually subsides.

And I donít think that itís likely that at any point in the future Iím going to be entirely drug free. Even though I am not at all convinced that the chemical imbalance theory is correct, I have to accept that three times I fell into serious depression and every time I was not taking an anti-depressant.

Thanks again for all the thought you have given to your posts. Iím sorry but at the moment Iím not in a position to adopt your approach. If I do, I could very well end up in deep depression as a result from a withdrawal from an anti-depressant. Wouldnít that be ironic?
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Zopiclone
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2019, 09:14:32 pm »
I have read your post carefully, Marigold.However, this withdrawal from Mirtazapine so severe that I have to sleep. If I donít sleep, I will go mad. I now know how heroin addicts or an OxyContin@ addicts must feel when they try to come off those drugs.  I would really like to be drug free.

I did see my doctor today. We made an agreement that I would not updose between now and the next time I see him. He said that in the near future I would have to come off this Zopiclone using the Ashton Method. And the only reason I am taking a very small dose of Endep is to prevent me from taking any more zopiclone. I can already see that Iím going to have trouble with sleep if I stay on the dose of 7.5 mg. However, I will just have to put up with that and not delude myself that there isnít going to be a time when insomnia is going to be a real problem.

 The GP assured me that a low dose of Endep is not dangerous. All I can do is hang in there and hope that this terrible withdrawal from the Mirtazapine eventually subsides.

And I donít think that itís likely that at any point in the future Iím going to be entirely drug free. Even though I am not at all convinced that the chemical imbalance theory is correct, I have to accept that three times I fell into serious depression and every time I was not taking an anti-depressant.

Thanks again for all the thought you have given to your posts. Iím sorry but at the moment Iím not in a position to adopt your approach. If I do, I could very well end up in deep depression as a result from a withdrawal from an anti-depressant. Wouldnít that be ironic?

Sorry, but I was not talking about an approach. I thought I was giving you support how to overcome withdrawal and maybe stay away from the meds in the future because you stated that you are not feeling well under the meds. I wish you the best and will now skip from this post. All I wanted is to share that it is possible even when you are coming from a history full of depression, to finally have a life, a good life without meds. Thats all. That is not an approach and I think it is not fair to call it that way, but okey, I can let go - take care!
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Zopiclone
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2019, 01:31:16 am »
Thanks to my withdrawal symptoms from Mirtazapine easing significantly early last week, I have started cutting the Zopiclone. I started taking this drug on 23rd July. I was on an average of about 1 and a quarter 7.5mg tablets which is the equivalent of 6.25 mg of Valium. I am now down to 5/8ths of a tablet. I have been cutting on a daily or once every two days.

My dosage of Endep is now 10mg rather than 20mg. I had to reduce it because I had really uncomfortable stomach problems. I seem to be ok for sleep but have some side effects from withdrawal: weird sensations in the body. As I now see this drug as poison to my bady, I want to get off it asap. My feeling is that if I am getting enough sleep without it, why would I want it in my body? I only took it because the aching was so awful from the "discontinuation" of the Mirtazapine. The Endep is at a very low dose so I will think about getting off that as soon as I can after I have got off the Zopiclone. I am doing this without input from my GP or psychiatrist as they are both on holidays at the moment. And my GP has never got anyone off this drug as he never uses it. The psychiatrist just wants to prescribe drugs. I doubt if he knows that much about getting people off Zopiclone either.

The literature on the internet talks mostly about rebound insomnia. That hasn't really been an issue so far; it is the unpleasant sensations which are affecting me. But that could be a return of the Mirtazapine withdrawal.

I really loathe taking psychiatric drugs. But the psychiatrist maintains I have to as I have experienced three major bouts of depression in the last twelve years. But after the experience with the Mirtazapine and his ludicrous proposal for me to take 2mg of Clonazeam to cope with the aching, I simply do not trust him. It is really difficult to know who to turn to. If I don't take anti-depressants, I expose myself to the dangers of depression. If I do take them, I risk another withdrawal like the horrific one I have gone through in the last four months.

Anyway thanks for reading this. Best wishes,

[...].
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Zopiclone
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2019, 06:20:49 pm »
Thanks to my withdrawal symptoms from Mirtazapine easing significantly early last week, I have started cutting the Zopiclone. I started taking this drug on 23rd July. I was on an average of about 1 and a quarter 7.5mg tablets which is the equivalent of 6.25 mg of Valium. I am now down to 5/8ths of a tablet. I have been cutting on a daily or once every two days.


Hi [...],
I have questions about your taper.
7.5 mg = 1 pill zolpiclone
Your starting dosage was 1 pill and a quarter= 7.5 mg + 1.9mg = 9.4 mg
According to Ashton you would have to cut down 10% every 2 weeks or even slower.
>But you said you have been cutting every day or every second day??
>And you started to cut LAST week? And you are now on about 4,7 mg?
This is WAY TO FAST!
Why do you hurry so badly? I would recommend to taper like Ashton says in her protocol.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Zopiclone
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2019, 10:31:00 am »
I am finding that my sleep is not be affected by this rapid taper. I started taking the drug around two months ago. The dose was almost always kept at 5mg of Valium or for a short while at 6.25mg. And maybe for a couple of days it wears at 10mg equivalent. So I havenít been on it much longer than the recommended maximum. If I had found myself being unable to sleep I would not have reduced it so quickly. If I applied the Ashton approach to this situation my taper would have lasted much longer than the time I was on the drug.

Zopiclone is a nasty drug which I took when I was desperately trying to survive the terrible aching from Mirtazapine withdrawal. I believe that Professor Ashton method applies to people who have been using benzodiazepines and Z drugs for an extended period. I successfully got off Mogadon last year much more quickly than I expected.

Another drug in the benzodiazepine family is Ativan. This drug is absolutely lethal. I was burning all the time I was taking it. My decision was after only five weeks was to get off it asap. I just couldnít stand the side effects.

By the way, Marigold, I have written to the psychiatrist to tell I have decided my body needs a break from psychiatric drugs and psychiatry. I told him that I have listened to his concerns that I am risking depression by choosing this course of action. But my body just cannot cope with another set of side effects.

I feel very strongly that the danger associated with high doses of antidepressants are not made clear to people. And some of the material on the internet downplays the problem of dependency and the awful withdrawal symptoms which can occur when one chooses to or has to get off them. I tried to get a newspaper in this country to run a series of investigative articles on the subject but they just ignored me.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Zopiclone
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2019, 08:20:36 pm »
Hi again Marigold,

I think I will have to take your advice and go a bit slower with my withdrawal from Zopiclone. I attempted to get down to a quarter of a tablet last night. The result was little sleep. I will up the dose again tonight and go much more slowly from now on. I have managed to get down from 1 and a quarter tablets to around 5/8 so I am not doing too badly.

I do think I will have to deal with some insomnia at some point on the evidence of last night. But going slowly does seem to be the way to go.

My loathing of the impact of antidepressants - thanks to the truly appalling withdrawal I have gone has affected me very much. And I just want a break from psychiatry and psychiatric drugs. But I must get off them in a sensible way.

Bye for now and thanks,

[...].
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Zopiclone
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2019, 07:47:23 am »
I would like some advice. I have managed to get down to 3.75mg of Zopiclone but it seems that with such a short acting drug it is going to be hard to get lower without having insomnia. My Mirtazapine withdrawal symptoms although much more bearable are still with me. So I am wondering if switching to a longer acting drug maybe Temazepam maybe easier to get off.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Zopiclone
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2019, 09:33:34 am »
I would like some advice. I have managed to get down to 3.75mg of Zopiclone but it seems that with such a short acting drug it is going to be hard to get lower without having insomnia. My Mirtazapine withdrawal symptoms although much more bearable are still with me. So I am wondering if switching to a longer acting drug maybe Temazepam maybe easier to get off.

five days before you were on about 6.? mg, now you are on 3.75 mg. I told you that according to ashton its going too fast. Why didn't you go slower like you said? Every 14 days 2% less of a dosage. Thats all I have to say here.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.