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Peace-loving Atheists in Wd & Recovery


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UPDATE: 8/23/2019: thanks to pianogirl for helping me change the name of this group to "Peace-loving atheists in WD & Recovery"  :thumbsup:

thanks also to Colin for approving us to go forward. thanks also to others who've guided me in starting this group.

 


(previous posts on this thread follow)

 

so i guess you've deduced the intro, that i am an atheist or freethinker...however you want to call it.

 

i am looking for a place where i can get support on this BB forum without having to hear the God or Christianity or other deity based/Higher Power ect rhetoric that people often "well-meaningly" add in. i find it to be very off-putting, and i don't say anything to avoid further offense and to avoid creating an argument or hurt feelings. hopefully this can be that place and others like me who want no mention of deity in their recovery can come to support each other and find support ourselves.

 

if noone has done it yet, i will start off the first post on "Peace-loving Atheists in WD & Recovery".

 

this thread is not for those who want to be mean or throw stones at theists or religious people or their books. it is just a safe place to talk about tapering, wd, recovery, healing etc from drugs such as benzos and others without talk of god or any religion.

 

my drug history is long and extensive...i had to put it in a link in my signature. but if you go there, i have made a large comprehensive post that tells it all .well...maybe not all o f it, but you'll get a good idea of what i've been through.  polydrugged for 24 years. began my taper off of quetiapine in 2017. began my clonazepam DLMT this year 2019. and hopefully i'll begin my gabapentin taper next year, if all goes well. i'm not in any hurry, but also i don't want to drag this out infinitely, because i've had 2 decades of my life wasted already.  i'm doing a symptom based liquid micro taper. i'm doing 2 tapers overlapping now, and once the gabapentin is added it will be 3 simultaneous tapers. but then i'll finish taper #1 and it will be the clonazepam and gabapent. and then the clonazepam taper will probably end before i complete the final taper.

 

a lot of people criticized my decision to polytaper. obviously i'm ignoring them.  :) the first person i heard a true success story from who had been polydrugged as many years as me and on some of the same drugs, was on another board. she had a background education in various areas of medicine and nursing and did her research before she began her polytapers. she understood the risks and benefits and weighed them both very carefully. she decided that since her CNS and all the other systems in her body were acclimated to the exact ratio of drugs in her body, that she'd create an imbalance by only tapering one drug at a  time. she understood the synergy between all her meds and her diet and how she responded to cuts in dosage on her meds. she made an informed decision. her polytaper was done very very very slowly, lol very! and she completed her polytaper successfully . she is now working and has family and does exercise, sports and lives a rich productive life. she is the template for my own symptom based taper.

 

my signature has the link to a post in my Buddie Blog where details on my taper and drug history can be found. feel free to ask me questions.

 

let's see how many of us there really are!

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hey thank you Colin,

i saw this in the results but it turned into a hatefest towards the religious members, so i wanted to make a new one that's specifically "hater-free", so maybe people would know this one is for atheists who don't want to discuss religion or argue with other non-atheists, just keep it strictly about recovery.

 

is this okay?  there is a need for a nonpolitical/nonreligious atheist recovery support group.

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Hi No more,

I have been on BB for over 7 years now. I have NEVER run into a post that was offensive regarding religious views. For one, this is actively discouraged by the Mods who monitor almost all  posts.

I, too, am NON religious. In the traditional sense, anyway. I have my personal beliefs but would never try to force them on anyone else. I am NOT a Christian, but nor am I a total atheist. None of this stuff really matters, because everyone on BB is trying to deal with benzo wd.

When I first began this journey in 2012, having been forced to go CT off Klonapin and ADs, I first went to NA. NOT a good match, due to the religious overtones. Plus at that time, I considered myself "different" from street drug people I know better now, but that's another story.

BB IS a place where you can get support and information without any sort of religious overtones. That stuff is actively monitored on BB and posts that talk about this are removed.

Nomore, I took benzos for thirty years, every single night, for what I thought was impossible insomnia. Benzos put me to sleep so I kept repeating this stupid thing. I am an RN and back then had easy access to all sort of benzos because they were NOT accounted for back then. Many nurses and physicians fall into this trap. Over the years my health began to deteriorate. Because I did not know benzos can do this I assumed I had some thing else wrong.

In 2012 after having fallen (due to benzos) I fractured my femur and could NOT walk normally for several years. I used a rolling walker back then.

My PMD finally figured out that my many falls and about 4 fractures might be due to my psych meds, so he cut me off, entirely and suddenly. I went into acute withdrawal rapidly. I was also forced to enter an acute psych ward, and they had NO Idea what I was going through.

I was discharged 4 days later when my insurance refused to pay and was sent home in full blown benzo withdrawal. I was hallucinating with all FIVE senses, for  heavens sake.

BB has never been a place where overly religious folk are encouraged, so your worry is unfounded. I can imagine WHY you might be concerned about this since AA/NA are often religious based. But BB is way different and religious stuff is NOT allowed.

east

 

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Hi No more,

 

 

hi East!

 

i've followed several of your posts and like what you have contibuted to the various threads here  :thumbsup: it's nice to know there's other nonreligious people who prefer not to attack other people for their beliefs or lack of them and just want to get and give support on this process we're all going through!

 

I have been on BB for over 7 years now. I have NEVER run into a post that was offensive regarding religious views. For one, this is actively discouraged by the Mods who monitor almost all  posts.

 

well i just took a gander at the link Colin posted for me to check out the other "atheist" thread and i found several comments that were digging at Christians specifically and others but that's why i made this thread. i used to be a religious person, and i had my share of arguments and namecalling and digs at people's sanity etc over their choice to be religious affilated or not...i've been on both sides of that crap i guess you could say...and i don't want to be a part of that anymore. it is distracting to have all that negativity and drama when i really just want to get better. and maybe help others get better if i can.

 

I, too, am NON religious. In the traditional sense, anyway. I have my personal beliefs but would never try to force them on anyone else. I am NOT a Christian, but nor am I a total atheist. None of this stuff really matters, because everyone on BB is trying to deal with benzo wd.

 

again, i like you, and i like your neutral stance on such a very personal thing such as religion/spirituality or lack of it. i feel safe like that. i want to make sure there's a place for people trying to stay away from the negativity and drama that is pretty bad on other threads. i'm hoping this will draw other people looking for peace and a place to go where there's not the distraction i mentioned.

 

When I first began this journey in 2012, having been forced to go CT off Klonapin and ADs, I first went to NA. NOT a good match, due to the religious overtones. Plus at that time, I considered myself "different" from street drug people I know better now, but that's another story.

 

same here, been there done that . i don't mind others going if it helps them i'm very happy they have found something that works for them, but for me, it is a religious cult/type group and i am not into those anywmore.. i had 2 years in AA but that was before the polydrugging. it did give me a place to hang out with non drinkers but there are things about the principles and traditions and steps that don't groove with me. i also agree with the point you mentioned about seeing myself different from the street druggies...i did and learned i'm no different and no better. i was actually homeless for awhile and it was arrogant of me to think i'd somehow "levelled up" from them. live n learn right?

 

BB IS a place where you can get support and information without any sort of religious overtones. That stuff is actively monitored on BB and posts that talk about this are removed.

well in theory yes, but i've been told by mod/admins lately that they aren't able to catch all the violations due to BB being so huge and the team of them trying to read everything is too small to catch it all.  i guess that's why i still see lots of them.

 

Nomore, I took benzos for thirty years, every single night, for what I thought was impossible insomnia. Benzos put me to sleep so I kept repeating this stupid thing. I am an RN and back then had easy access to all sort of benzos because they were NOT accounted for back then. Many nurses and physicians fall into this trap. Over the years my health began to deteriorate. Because I did not know benzos can do this I assumed I had some thing else wrong.

 

dang!! that's a ton of benzos! your poor brain...lol, i was watching nurse jackie on netflix and now i got that in my head when you talk of your RN old days...

 

In 2012 after having fallen (due to benzos) I fractured my femur and could NOT walk normally for several years. I used a rolling walker back then.

 

that's something else we have in common, except yours was a sudden traumatic injury and mine came on gradually due to seroquel high doses long term...i still have my rolling walker and canes.

 

My PMD finally figured out that my many falls and about 4 fractures might be due to my psych meds, so he cut me off, entirely and suddenly.

 

i'd like to insert several choice expletives here about what i think about that dr, but i don't wanna get in trouble about that so i will restrain myself!

 

I went into acute withdrawal rapidly. I was also forced to enter an acute psych ward, and they had NO Idea what I was going through.

I was discharged 4 days later when my insurance refused to pay and was sent home in full blown benzo withdrawal. I was hallucinating with all FIVE senses, for  heavens sake.

 

dammmit, insurance always cutting off the care to save $$$! mine is pretty good they let me stay 7 days before i get booted out. back in those bad times i was hospitalized inpatient over a dozen times in ten years. but i never was in that bad of a state, they had to at least make sure i wasn't seeing or hearing things before releasing me. all 5 senses, gooodness sakes, you been through it alright. people like to poke fun but i still get occassional olfactory and taste hallucinations. but i can't imagine having all the sensory hallucinations you experienced.  man.

 

BB has never been a place where overly religious folk are encouraged, so your worry is unfounded. I can imagine WHY you might be concerned about this since AA/NA are often religious based. But BB is way different and religious stuff is NOT allowed.

east

 

 

(see my comments above)

 

 

 

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From the rules:

 

Do not denigrate specific religions, ethnicities or cultures. Do not disparage those of another gender, gender identity or sexual orientation. We are a support group for all those experiencing problems with benzodiazepine use or withdrawal - this is our common bond. We do not tolerate prejudice in any form.

 

Additionally, please do not use this community to promote or proselytize a specific religious viewpoint.

 

It works both ways. Members should respect the views of others and the spaces they create for their (supportive) discussions.

 

We try to be pragmatic about most materials posted to BB. So, a minor religious comment is unlikely to catch the attention of a moderator (unless it is habitual). Similarly, it would be unacceptable for non-religious members to hang out on the faith board for the purposes of challenging members who do hold religious views. None of the rules are in support of religion or against it. Rather, it is about providing space for as many members as possible to engage in what they find supportive in their battle with benzodiazepines. We try to cut some slack, but there limits. The focus of BB (as best we can) is to support members with problems associated with benzodiazepine use, withdrawal and recovery.

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From the rules:

 

Do not denigrate specific religions, ethnicities or cultures. Do not disparage those of another gender, gender identity or sexual orientation. We are a support group for all those experiencing problems with benzodiazepine use or withdrawal - this is our common bond. We do not tolerate prejudice in any form.

 

Additionally, please do not use this community to promote or proselytize a specific religious viewpoint.

 

It works both ways. Members should respect the views of others and the spaces they create for their (supportive) discussions.

 

We try to be pragmatic about most materials posted to BB. So, a minor religious comment is unlikely to catch the attention of a moderator (unless it is habitual). Similarly, it would be unacceptable for non-religious members to hang out on the faith board for the purposes of challenging members who do hold religious views. None of the rules are in support of religion or against it. Rather, it is about providing space for as many members as possible to engage in what they find supportive in their battle with benzodiazepines. We try to cut some slack, but there limits. The focus of BB (as best we can) is to support members with problems associated with benzodiazepine use, withdrawal and recovery.

 

that's exactly what i'm looking for.

i did check out the other "atheist" link you posted Colin, and thanked you for it, but unfortunately it was full of the types of comments against people of faith/s and religious affiliation that i want to avoid. 

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that's exactly what i'm looking for.

i did check out the other "atheist" link you posted Colin, and thanked you for it, but unfortunately it was full of the types of comments against people of faith/s and religious affiliation that i want to avoid.

 

Feel free to start a new thread.

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that's exactly what i'm looking for.

i did check out the other "atheist" link you posted Colin, and thanked you for it, but unfortunately it was full of the types of comments against people of faith/s and religious affiliation that i want to avoid.

 

Feel free to start a new thread.

 

thank you sir  :)

 

i guess well just keep it going then

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UPDATE: okay so this is the alternative "atheist" support group since i got Colin's approval to go ahead. it's title is "WD and Recovery as an atheist (no hater comments please)", but if a mod or admin would help me, i'd like to change the title of the thread to "Peace-loving Atheists in Wd & Recovery"  :smitten:

 

thanks in advance to anyone who can help me with this title change.  :thumbsup:


(previous posts on this thread follow)

 

NOTICE: if there is already a support group for atheists/freethinkers in the support groups, please ignore this. (i did a search but of the only 10 results that came up, there weren't any for a suport group for atheists or freethinkers that i could find.)

 

so i guess you've deduced the intro, that i am an atheist or freethinker...however you want to call it.

 

i am looking for a place where i can get support on this BB forum without having to hear the God or Christianity or other deity based/Higher Power ect rhetoric that people often "well-meaningly" add in. i find it to be very off-putting, and i don't say anything to avoid further offense and to avoid creating an argument or hurt feelings. hopefully this can be that place and others like me who want no mention of deity in their recovery can come to support each other and find support ourselves.

 

if noone has done it yet, i will start off the first post on "wd and recovery as an atheist".

 

this thread is not for those who want to be mean or throw stones at theists or religious people or their books. it is just a safe place to take about tapering, wd, recovery, healing etc from drugs such as benzos and others without talk of god or any religion.

 

my drug history is long and extensive...i had to put it in a link in my signature. but if you go there, i have made a large comprehensive post that tells it all .well...maybe not all o f it, but you'll get a good idea of what i've been through.  ...

 

let's see how many of us there really are!

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thanks to pianogirl for helping me change the group's name to "Peace-loving Atheists in WD & Recovery" here... much better than the previous title i'd made, lol!
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Religion for me has always been an academic subject. Something to study. I was not brought up with any religion. My family gave gifts on Christmas, but I don't count that as "being religious." It's just the day my parents got off work and us kids were out of school for two weeks.

 

I'm so areligious that even calling myself an atheist seems inappropriate, if that makes any sense.

 

I have friends who are deeply religious. I'm glad it brings them joy, but it's not for me.

 

So what would we discuss in this thread?

 

 

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Religion for me has always been an academic subject. Something to study. I was not brought up with any religion. My family gave gifts on Christmas, but I don't count that as "being religious." It's just the day my parents got off work and us kids were out of school for two weeks.

 

I'm so areligious that even calling myself an atheist seems inappropriate, if that makes any sense.

 

I have friends who are deeply religious. I'm glad it brings them joy, but it's not for me.

 

So what would we discuss in this thread?

 

hey Hope,

 

well, we can discuss everything in this support group that we discuss in the other support groups minus any reference to god/s, religions/faiths, "higher powers" or verses from the holy books of those (that includes anything by "Bill W." or 12 step books/traditions/etc.) it's a non-political and non-religious shaming version of the other "atheist" support group basically. sort of an atheists without predjudices support group.  that's why i chose the name "Peace-loving Atheists in WD & Recovery". i suppose it's for atheists who don't have any beef with the non-atheists. we don't want the drama or distraction, we just want to focus on our healing process, and to feel relaxed knowing that we have a group we can speak freely without the need to say "merry chistmas" or "happy saturnalia" or go on about how we can't do this without "__insert name of deity here__"

 

i am hoping this will be a place where we don't have to deal with religious/spiritual vs scientific/medical dabates or arguments (which are neverending and constantly redirect the focus off of WD and Recovery from these meds onto the arguments themselves)  and minus the digging at people who have different faiths or lack of them.  like a hippie commune for atheists in WD or Recovery minus the new agey spiritualism or any other religious stuff.

 

for myself, to not hear voices anymore- (july 17th will be a year since i last heard a voice of "god" or anything else for that matter) -since my medication dose got low enough, is a great relief! but it was not at first. i was devastated when i first realized there was no one talking back to me when i prayed. i thought i'd done something wrong! but it was evident after a week, that the voice i hasd been hearing ever since i began taking that drug... (seroquel, an antipsychotic that can actually make a non-psychotic person begin to have psychosis) ...was not Divine. it was the voice of seroquel. That drug made me hear a voice, and when the dose was reduced down to a low enough amount, the voice disappeared.  so it wasn't "god abandoning me" it was simply that i'm healing and that the psychosis induced by the drug has stopped. i need a place where people won't tell me "you just have to have faith!", "you need to pray harder", or  "god is testing you", etc.

 

that is my experience. i know others will have different ones of course! but that's why i need a safe place to not be judged and constantly triggered by religious references. i was looking to the other "atheist" support group at first, but it quickly became clear to me that i wouldn't feel safe there either, because so many people are there arguing religion/science and it's a distraction.  so i decided to try making a new group. Colin guided me to make sure i understood what BB stands for and won't stand for concerning religious tolerance/intolerance, and pianogirl helped me get the name changed.

 

so here we are!

 

i posted a link in my signature to my drug and medical history for anyone who's interested. i'm in a polytaper from polydrugs currently. if you read the previous threads, you can see some of my story/why i decided to do a polytaper. the quetiapine is about 2.5% every 4 weeks with HOLDS as needed and the clonazepam is a DLMT at 1% every 14 days for the first 4 months, with HOLDS as needed. then i'll go up to 1.63% every 14 days etc. that puts me into next year, where i'll re-assess (as needed) the rate and speed of my polytaper/s.

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Much cred to Colin and piano girl for making this board workable.

 

I have to feed my intellect and nurture my body to deal with what I go through,This includes being  expansive in embracing other people, and genuinely accepting, even learning about their differences. I need to be kind, gracious, giving, and sincerely care about people, I have no time for negativity. If a relationship is going that way, I drop it.

 

I was raised without religion, btw, so that was my paradigm coming into this. I studied religions, but could not accept them as a personal truth.

 

As horrible as withdraw is, it is making me a bigger and kinder and more caring person. This is an experience I world like  to hear others discuss. How has withdraw changed you for the better?

 

Now for a bit of a soapbox, and I wont repeat this going forward:

 

I also feel the existing atheist support board is cluttered up with religious discourse. Nothing wrong with that, if it is what one desires, but I don't. I find that if one practice a religion, it fills a need they have, and they are doing what is best for them. My family and friends is a mix of atheism (most of us,) Islam, Bahai and liberal Christianity. I find admirable things in each faith, and enjoy discussing the positive merits they experience, whereas I gain insight and strength through other means.

 

They are all admirable wonderful family members who are exactly where they need to be to live their live with intuitive honesty. I don't quantify the love and connection I can have with other people with any "riders," concerning faith. If I limited my social realm to people who only think like I do, I would be alone.

 

I am offended when people attack those of faith, and move on. (in the real world) This is especially pertinent in our times with my Muslim family and friends.

 

Moving on, through this horrendous process of tapering benzo's, why waste any time on arguing over, or offending anyone who has different ideas and beliefs than I do. We need connection, and I feel that finding common ground with people of faith is just  another excuse to grow, and for me, growth is primary.

 

I can't get through this without expanding my perceptions and knowledge. I question my beliefs (not about religion) but those I carry. Just because I believe something does not make it a fact. This is crucial with all the negative thoughts and memories that come to the fore as we proceed.

 

As horrible as withdraw is, it is making me a more expansive person, aware of many aspects of my self that can be better and open to changing how I understand reality, people and the world. On a personal level, I have to stop anticipating the worst outcome, or a bad outcome for most things. I have to adjust my brain to expect a good outcome. This is a huge shift for me, and a work in progress.

 

My greatest interest at the moment is, how has withdraw changed you for the better?  What insights have you experienced going through this. Do you feel that growth is a  part of the process, as we have to be much more than our previous selves to go on with this, day after day?

 

 

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Much cred to Colin and piano girl for making this board workable.

 

I have to feed my intellect and nurture my body to deal with what I go through,This includes being  expansive in embracing other people, and genuinely accepting, even learning about their differences. I need to be kind, gracious, giving, and sincerely care about people, I have no time for negativity. If a relationship is going that way, I drop it.

 

I was raised without religion, btw, so that was my paradigm coming into this. I studied religions, but could not accept them as a personal truth.

As horrible as withdraw is, it is making me a bigger and kinder and more caring person. This is an experience I world like  to hear others discuss. How has withdraw changed you for the better?

 

Now for a bit of a soapbox, and I wont repeat this going forward:

 

I also feel the existing atheist support board is cluttered up with religious discourse. Nothing wrong with that, if it is what one desires, but I don't. I find that if one practice a religion, it fills a need they have, and they are doing what is best for them. My family and friends is a mix of atheism (most of us,) Islam, Bahai and liberal Christianity. I find admirable things in each faith, and enjoy discussing the positive merits they experience, whereas I gain insight and strength through other means.

 

They are all admirable wonderful family members who are exactly where they need to be to live their live with intuitive honesty. I don't quantify the love and connection I can have with other people with any "riders," concerning faith. If I limited my social realm to people who only think like I do, I would be alone.

 

I am offended when people attack those of faith, and move on. (in the real world) This is especially pertinent in our times with my Muslim family and friends.

 

Moving on, through this horrendous process of tapering benzo's, why waste any time on arguing over, or offending anyone who has different ideas and beliefs than I do. We need connection, and I feel that finding common ground with people of faith is just  another excuse to grow, and for me, growth is primary.

 

I can't get through this without expanding my perceptions and knowledge. I question my beliefs (not about religion) but those I carry. Just because I believe something does not make it a fact. This is crucial with all the negative thoughts and memories that come to the fore as we proceed.

 

As horrible as withdraw is, it is making me a more expansive person, aware of many aspects of my self that can be better and open to changing how I understand reality, people and the world. On a personal level, I have to stop anticipating the worst outcome, or a bad outcome for most things. I have to adjust my brain to expect a good outcome. This is a huge shift for me, and a work in progress.

My greatest interest at the moment is, how has withdraw changed you for the better?  What insights have you experienced going through this. Do you feel that growth is a  part of the process, as we have to be much more than our previous selves to go on with this, day after day?

 

wow baddove you are truly a pleasure to read! you are obviously ascending to a higher level of awareness, of yourself and of others as they actually are...not just the way we've been conditioned by society to perceive them. i am really honored to meet you and to converse with you!

 

i bolded the parts above that are especially important to me. things that sang with my soul ,so to speak  :) i am so grateful for this BB board and especially to the mods who helped me start this suport group.

 

ok for the answers to your questions i bolded in purple:

1,

how has withdraw changed you for the better? 

 

so far, it removed the artificial voices in my head and delusions caused by high doses of antipsychotic. so i "lost" the artificial ( but very dammned convincing!) god. i grieved deeply that loss. but then a metamorphosis ocurred. out of grief and feelings of abandonment (that i realized were really anger at being tricked by the drugs/by the prescribers of that drug) ..came a peace that i've never felt before.

i realized that i am in control of my own life now, and how i want to live it from here on out. there's no invisible all powerful being there to judge my every move and condemn me to some eternity of whatever. i'm free. i don't fit in this world, but i don't feel like an alien anymore. i feel liberated.

 

i feel like i can see clearly now... i see the game for what it really is. my whole life has been a giant game where i, as a player, was conditioned and groomed and manipulated by the other players in the game of life (parents, teachers, clergy, etc). part of the game was either choosing to remain being an independent mind, freethinker and observer, or choosing the way most do, which is to follow the leaders and follow everyone else. be a part of the crowd. fit in. well, now i'm free of the illusion/delusions the antipsychotic had induced in me,  so i am free to be the original me, without the conditioning and social pressure to fit in, to accept an idealism or religion.

 

sometimes though, because i'm still growing and maturing, i fall into the old habit of allowing myself to be baited into a fight, an argument or just plain meanness. i'm still human and flawed. i make mistakes as much as before, but now i realize what i'm doing and what i've done. now i take responsibility for my actions myself, instead of blaming others or the devil or whatever. so there's that. i never  or very rarely at least apologized for my own crap before WD from these drugs. now i'm painfully aware of my blunders and i apologize freely. sometimes i feel that i mess up so often that my apologies will not be received, or they will echo as hollow and insincere..because i say it so often. i'm very easily hurt and angered. i'm kind of like a baby emotionally right now.  :)

 

 

this hypersensitivity has had positive feeling effects though as well...i now am aware of surroundings, where previously had tunnel vision and large gaps of memory. huge chunks of mssing time. now it's all coming back. even things i never remembered before, fresh as the day it happened. it shocking. i tried to write my autobiograpohy 2 times before, but this time i'm remembering everything. the words are turning into phrases and sentences that make sense!

 

the things that traumatized me in my past, now don't have the same sting when i recall them. it's much more clear, objective. like i'm just observing from a distance what happened. i don't repeat the same feelings as before when i would recall an abuse. now it is a recall, but sort of cool..cold recollection. which is very helpful in seing a situation without blaming. i wasn't able to do that before WD.

 

another positive change since WD is recognizing predators and danger before it's too late to withdraw from them. awareness i suppose. trusting and paying attention to natural intuition and cues from the subconscious mind. before WD that was not there...i was repeatedly abused and victimized in situations with definite patterns. i may over-react sometimes to this new awareness but it's like a 5 year old standing up to an adult and saying "NO!" ..they usually overdo it in their intensity, but that's ok! it will be finessed over time. so i feel my delayed maturity finally coming about. and now i do not feel guilty or ashamed of how awkward my attempts are. i am much more gentle with myself about my social interactions. a bit more self-forgiving than before.

 

i am cognitively doing very well, especially considering the number of drugs and high dosages and long periods of time i have been on them. some very highly respected doctors in the WD/Tapering/Recovery community say that cases like mine are unfortunately incurable. i disagree.

 

some of the cognitive healing that i've experienced since beginning WD has shown in weird ways... such as partial dyslexia and mispelling many things that i formerly knew by heart (spelling bee winner for my entire highschool and semifinal national competition lol) this is a sign of reconnections and new connections/neural pathways forming. sometime things get rearranged in the wrong order..eventually though it figures out the best way and my writing and speechand thought patterns become correct.

 

2.

What insights have you experienced going through this.

 

so withdrawing took away the illusion i was under, the delusion, the dis-illusion. the disolution of the mask that everyone and i myself was also wearing.  now i look around and it's like a gigantic masquerade ball where everyone has some ridculous mask on concealing their identity. but i don't wear my mask anymore. and i occasionally see others who have chosen to go without their masks as well. we nod to each other and smile knowingly because no words are neccesary to explain anything. we see the mask is deliberately not worn and instantly understand.

 

there is much less posturing between freethinkers. less fakery and hiding and shame/guilting. the motives are openly laid out, and it seems like i can easily see other masked players' motives though they try to lie or deceive. it is very clear now.

 

3.

Do you feel that growth is a  part of the process, as we have to be much more than our previous selves to go on with this, day after day?

 

(personal) growth, is for me, most definitely part of the process, but not for others.

 

i have seen this daily by looking at the questions posted on the main page of the board.

so many people still stuck in the thinking mode that the drugs induced, looking for another pill or substance to alleviate their sxs of suffering, instead of learning new coping mechanisms and techniques. 

they are so desperate for relief they will try anything, but when you offer them a solution that actually works to help cure the underlying anxiety/fear/anger etc that is why they got hooked on the meds in the first plase (for certain cases i know it's different) the majority don't want to do the work to repair and improve themselves deep down.

they just want a quick fix. just give me a pill to feel better. (to mask the sxs) they don't want to or are not ready yet to do the actual work on their personal selves. i just am learning to let it go now. i'm not able nor responsible for anyone's healing but my own. and i don't need to help everyone. i do try sometimes, but it's really out of my hands. if someone really want s to heal, including the reasons that made them take the first pill, then they will go on their own journey. i am happy to guide if specifically asked, but their journey is theirs alone. as is mine. and i don't judge now. cause i was once  in their shoes.

 

my emotions are now very acute, lol! well, i was emotionally blunted by the meds for over 20 years. so all these feelings i'm having, every feeling, happy, sad, mad, and everything in between, everything is just so out of proportion intense and hypersensitized!

 

it's very much akin to a 3rd dgree burn victim all over the body

...immediately following the injury, the body shuts down feeling to the external surfaces and extremities to focus on critical operations to keep the body alive.

the person usually loses consciousness. then the nerves die. there is no feeling.

but then, as the body begins to repair itself, growing new nerves, making new connections, pain is the only thing you feel.

agonizing pain, debilitating and all encompassing...nothing else can be focused on in the worst intense part of it...

but it is sign of healing actively happening.

 

and so it is with my emotions and also physical sensations. everything is hyper-intensified and it's exhausting and unnerving. i worry that i'll survive this stage to get to the next phase where the intensity calms down. i know in my heart that i will, but not while in the middle of the neuro-emotions and rebooting and systems coming back online. it's just like having 3rd degree burns but under the skin, inside the body and brain.

 

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Really enjoyed your follow up post. Having a significant belief cast aside that comes from your core is significant, and it may come quickly. The adaptation to, and changes can take much longer. This is not a bad thing at all, but it is the unfurling change in how we "are," resulting from a change in a belief. You explained it very well.

 

As to your burn victim comment, I relate:

 

but then, as the body begins to repair itself, growing new nerves, making new connections, pain is the only thing you feel.

agonizing pain, debilitating and all encompassing...nothing else can be focused on in the worst intense part of it...

but it is sign of healing actively happening.

 

and so it is with my emotions and also physical sensations. everything is hyper-intensified and it's exhausting and unnerving. i worry that i'll survive this stage to get to the next phase where the intensity calms down. i know in my heart that i will, but not while in the middle of the neuro-emotions and rebooting and systems coming back online. it's just like having 3rd degree burns but under the skin, inside the body and brain.

 

Often, when everything is raging, I tell myself I have to experience the pain in order to recover. Accept it, trust that my body is in the act of self healing, and that by not trying to change it, something is getting better. I need to go through it to experience the healing behind it.

 

But if an entire day is bad, I am angry and feel like I am loosing time. Loosing a whole day, or 3/4 or 1/2 of a day to this process. I am not so Zen in those times.

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Really enjoyed your follow up post. Having a significant belief cast aside that comes from your core is significant, and it may come quickly. The adaptation to, and changes can take much longer. This is not a bad thing at all, but it is the unfurling change in how we "are," resulting from a change in a belief. You explained it very well.

 

As to your burn victim comment, I relate:

 

but then, as the body begins to repair itself, growing new nerves, making new connections, pain is the only thing you feel.

agonizing pain, debilitating and all encompassing...nothing else can be focused on in the worst intense part of it...

but it is sign of healing actively happening.

 

and so it is with my emotions and also physical sensations. everything is hyper-intensified and it's exhausting and unnerving. i worry that i'll survive this stage to get to the next phase where the intensity calms down. i know in my heart that i will, but not while in the middle of the neuro-emotions and rebooting and systems coming back online. it's just like having 3rd degree burns but under the skin, inside the body and brain.

 

Often, when everything is raging, I tell myself I have to experience the pain in order to recover. Accept it, trust that my body is in the act of self healing, and that by not trying to change it, something is getting better. I need to go through it to experience the healing behind it.

 

But if an entire day is bad, I am angry and feel like I am loosing time. Loosing a whole day, or 3/4 or 1/2 of a day to this process. I am not so Zen in those times.

 

well thank you baddove!!

 

;) o boy, i hear you on the zenless days. time is precious..perhaps especially so to us who've spent so much of our time already being drugged out or trying to get off the dang things...for me it is anyways. one oif the hardest lessons from all this is learning how to slow down and be patientwith each cut, reduction, sxs, setback, everything!

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

bumping this

 

anybody doing DLMT right now or in past without a deity to "get them through" it?

 

Hi nomoredrugsforme, atheist here :) I did DLMT during part of my taper, followed by dry cutting using the grind-and-weight method. No deity involved. What helped me was a lot of physical exercise, fresh air, healthy eating, sleeping and obsessively studying the topic.

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I'm not sure what 'bump' means but I just read this thread and hope it will keep going with the previous contributors.  As I read, I felt as if someone was expressing my own thoughts, opinions and feelings.  I haven't been able to convey this to anyone as I know no one in my community who is going through benzo withdrawal.  And if  I did, they would likely be doing what they need to do, with no criticism from me, which is surrendering to their Christian god.  Just not where I'm at.

 

As for how the taper experience has changed me, I like the person I am more than  ever in my life.  Not in a self-centered, narcissistic way but that love of self that comes from reflecting mindfully on how one relates to, thinks about and treats others.  I have always striven to be a kind person.  But having been raised in a very harshly critical environment has necessitated a Herculean effort on my part not to be instinctively judgmental and reactive to others who are not like me. 

 

*This process, as gawd-awful as it is, has had the positive effect of  my recognizing the benefits of acceptance, tolerance, understanding and even embracing of others who would, in the past, have elicited some form of negative reaction in me.  And negativity does NADA, RIEN, NICHTS nothing for us.  It is the worst sentiment we can feel in withdrawal, it gnaws at us. 

 

I still have a long way to go but I credit the horribleness of tapering benzos with noticeable self-improvement.  And I like it!                       

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I'm not sure what 'bump' means but I just read this thread and hope it will keep going with the previous contributors.  As I read, I felt as if someone was expressing my own thoughts, opinions and feelings.  I haven't been able to convey this to anyone as I know no one in my community who is going through benzo withdrawal.  And if  I did, they would likely be doing what they need to do, with no criticism from me, which is surrendering to their Christian god.  Just not where I'm at.

 

As for how the taper experience has changed me, I like the person I am more than  ever in my life.  Not in a self-centered, narcissistic way but that love of self that comes from reflecting mindfully on how one relates to, thinks about and treats others.  I have always striven to be a kind person.  But having been raised in a very harshly critical environment has necessitated a Herculean effort on my part not to be instinctively judgmental and reactive to others who are not like me. 

 

*This process, as gawd-awful as it is, has had the positive effect of  my recognizing the benefits of acceptance, tolerance, understanding and even embracing of others who would, in the past, have elicited some form of negative reaction in me.  And negativity does NADA, RIEN, NICHTS nothing for us.  It is the worst sentiment we can feel in withdrawal, it gnaws at us. 

 

I still have a long way to go but I credit the horribleness of tapering benzos with noticeable self-improvement.  And I like it!                     

 

 

Thank you for answering the question, "How have you changed for the better." I don't see it in other threads,  it is significant, and needs to be discussed. Also, our misery associated with the process is not us, it's the drug and CNS damage. We are suffering, but that is not who we are.

 

Only positive things can arise from this self realization, as opposed to identifying as a person defined by our pain.

 

Of course, talk of symptoms, crashes, freak outs and new sxs are important, and also deserve space and support from this group.

 

 

 

 

"Bump" is just a way to push the thread to the top of the list,

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I'm not sure what 'bump' means but I just read this thread and hope it will keep going with the previous contributors. As I read, I felt as if someone was expressing my own thoughts, opinions and feelings. I haven't been able to convey this to anyone as I know no one in my community who is going through benzo withdrawal.  And if  I did, they would likely be doing what they need to do, with no criticism from me, which is surrendering to their Christian god.  Just not where I'm at.

 

As for how the taper experience has changed me, I like the person I am more than  ever in my life.  Not in a self-centered, narcissistic way but that love of self that comes from reflecting mindfully on how one relates to, thinks about and treats others.  I have always striven to be a kind person.  But having been raised in a very harshly critical environment has necessitated a Herculean effort on my part not to be instinctively judgmental and reactive to others who are not like me. 

 

*This process, as gawd-awful as it is, has had the positive effect of  my recognizing the benefits of acceptance, tolerance, understanding and even embracing of others who would, in the past, have elicited some form of negative reaction in me.  And negativity does NADA, RIEN, NICHTS nothing for us.  It is the worst sentiment we can feel in withdrawal, it gnaws at us. 

 

I still have a long way to go but I credit the horribleness of tapering benzos with noticeable self-improvement.  And I like it!                      

 

 

Thank you for answering the question, "How have you changed for the better." I don't see it in other threads,  it is significant, and needs to be discussed. Also, our misery associated with the process is not us, it's the drug and CNS damage. We are suffering, but that is not who we are.

 

Only positive things can arise from this self realization, as opposed to identifying as a person defined by our pain.

 

Of course, talk of symptoms, crashes, freak outs and new sxs are important, and also deserve space and support from this group.

 

"Bump" is just a way to push the thread to the top of the list,

 

just wanted to say thank you to both Monray and BadDove for these profound statements about this newfound awareness. it's amazing how great suffering births great compassion.

 

ps just in case you didn't see it, i did respond to your question in this thread: (if you saw or i forgot, please disregard my annoying reminder of it!  ;D derp de derp!

ok for the answers to your questions i bolded in purple:1,

how has withdraw changed you for the better? 

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I'm not sure what 'bump' means but I just read this thread and hope it will keep going with the previous contributors. As I read, I felt as if someone was expressing my own thoughts, opinions and feelings. I haven't been able to convey this to anyone as I know no one in my community who is going through benzo withdrawal.  And if  I did, they would likely be doing what they need to do, with no criticism from me, which is surrendering to their Christian god.  Just not where I'm at.

 

As for how the taper experience has changed me, I like the person I am more than  ever in my life.  Not in a self-centered, narcissistic way but that love of self that comes from reflecting mindfully on how one relates to, thinks about and treats others.  I have always striven to be a kind person.  But having been raised in a very harshly critical environment has necessitated a Herculean effort on my part not to be instinctively judgmental and reactive to others who are not like me. 

 

*This process, as gawd-awful as it is, has had the positive effect of  my recognizing the benefits of acceptance, tolerance, understanding and even embracing of others who would, in the past, have elicited some form of negative reaction in me.  And negativity does NADA, RIEN, NICHTS nothing for us.  It is the worst sentiment we can feel in withdrawal, it gnaws at us. 

 

I still have a long way to go but I credit the horribleness of tapering benzos with noticeable self-improvement.  And I like it!                      

 

 

Thank you for answering the question, "How have you changed for the better." I don't see it in other threads,  it is significant, and needs to be discussed. Also, our misery associated with the process is not us, it's the drug and CNS damage. We are suffering, but that is not who we are.

 

Only positive things can arise from this self realization, as opposed to identifying as a person defined by our pain.

 

Of course, talk of symptoms, crashes, freak outs and new sxs are important, and also deserve space and support from this group.

 

"Bump" is just a way to push the thread to the top of the list,

 

just wanted to say thank you to both Monray and BadDove for these profound statements about this newfound awareness. it's amazing how great suffering births great compassion.

 

ps just in case you didn't see it, i did respond to your question in this thread: (if you saw or i forgot, please disregard my annoying reminder of it!  ;D derp de derp!

ok for the answers to your questions i bolded in purple:1,

how has withdraw changed you for the better? 

 

 

 

 

 

Girl I saw your response and very much liked and respected it, and did comment. Chalk it up to "Bob brain or Boob brain, I have dropped benzo brain from my vocab, wanted something not so drug specific and silly. My non medicated spouse gets Bob brain  and BOOB brain (then I get mad) so, everyone gets to be an airhead at any time.

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