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Truth does make for trust... and harmony.

 

It also allows people to make informed decisions.

 

In another thread someone commented that the Ashton manual only serves to scare people. If the Ashton manual is too scary we might as well sweep all of this under the rug and call it a day.

 

That's the problem with trying to decide for other people what they can or can't handle. Inevitably someone is going to get cheated.

 

 

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Truth does make for trust... and harmony.

 

It also allows people to make informed decisions.

 

In another thread someone commented that the Ashton manual only serves to scare people. If the Ashton manual is too scary we might as well sweep all of this under the rug and call it a day.

 

That's the problem with trying to decide for other people what they can or can't handle. Inevitably someone is going to get cheated.

 

Goodness me ... if we didn't have the Ashton manual where would we be.  Did they not read the patient information leaflet that are with the drugs?

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I was one of those simpletons who didn't read the leaflet and just blindly trusted the "powers that be."  :idiot:

 

I just got a bottle of tablets .. and that was all.  :( :( :( :(

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I was one of those simpletons who didn't read the leaflet and just blindly trusted the "powers that be."  :idiot:

 

I just got a bottle of tablets .. and that was all.  :( :( :( :(

 

i was one who read the tiny ass print on the long folded up origami style leaflet and asked if these things were true?

and i was told "oh no don't worry about that it's just the legal mumbo jumbo every single drug has to include to be able to sell it."  :tickedoff::muscle::sneaky::nono::boxer:

that won't ever happen again.

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There was a man whose foot was eaten by a shark. The man survived, and healed, and had a nice life, with a nice wife and a tribe of children, a big house, a great career, a ton of cash, a touch of fame, and in the end, a safe and easy retirement. But the foot never grew back.

 

Not every eye wept for the man.

I think this is how I try to look at it.. -Well as close to home as the “foot” analogy is, I wanna be this guy..!!

:)

 

***

I dont know if im going to have the GI problems (or other) the meds caused forever, or to what extent, but my main hope is that like all the other permanent physical damage from the accident, it wont define me or hold me back from my actual capabilities.. -if that makes sense..??

 

***

Thanks Fiona, :)

As you know, its far from a new topic here, and past “discussions” have really helped me keep it in perspective... (as it applies to me)

-let it not be fear that defines my reality..

 

And thats it from my poor fried brain..  :(

 

My Best to All...

:)

 

 

 

 

 

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Ptsdmiracle,

 

When I'm functional and it isn't so bad, it's better than ever being alive. The "windows" are so nice. It's worth it being off benzodiazepines. I think it's that it's this frightening sometimes that really concerns me. Some days are symptomatic but bearable and so much worth being alive, too. I guess that means that the worst days are also worth it then.

 

I disagree with some posters in thinking that it always has to be some defect or deficiency or due to a rapid taper or previous drug use that causes a bad reaction to benzos. Or even protracted. I personally feel these are the worst medications or drugs on the planet. Bar none.

 

I am a firm believer in brain plasticity, and even cellular regeneration in any area of the body. I think we can heal ourselves with diet and things we do to get the feelings of life back. Sometimes I'm heavy-handed when it comes to clearing up judgements I feel are not beneficial to the recovery of myself or others that have their root in fear.

 

To be perfectly honest, I do a lot and I get a lot out of life, but it isn't to say that the pain doesn't shock me still and overtake me at times. I don't report a lot on windows because they are so awesome and sacred to me. I am very selfish and protective of my good days.

 

On good days and when I do a lot even with symptoms, I am very quiet about it. I don't say a whole lot, for some reason, I just enjoy them selfishly.

 

I'm not really sure what that is all about. I've had some very amazing windows. I just think really that it's my path to healing and that I am perfecting and exacting... and then also I feel like it's sort of bragging--the fact that it's so good sometimes and I feel life force flowing through me. It's hard to know what approach to take in reporting those times.

 

I'm really not as bad at complaining, but I also don't do that in proportion to the actual suffering I experience. I just tend to store things, even if it looks like I'm being vocal. A lot of it is kept private, I tend to agree with all the protracted members on this thread a lot about everything. If it hadn't been for the people on this thread, even some newer ones, I don't really know.

 

I have abused alcohol and marijuana quite a lot, I have experience with psych drugs I haven't been able to list yet. I know there are "worse" cases, but I have done some major damage and been through severe traumas and nearly died many, many times. This all began many years ago around 17. I'm 34 now. I have recovered from a remarkable amount, but I think that this drug is such an exception in it's ability to harm me. I still have faith, it's just that the suffering is so severe at times.

 

If I am honest about my opinion, it has been very positive from the beginning. This is where readers will balk, but they don't really know my internal thoughts... they just see what I post. My responsibility is to my healing first, though I try to free up thought and feeling space for myself and others that isn't restricted by stuffy, fear-based opinions. I freak out though, and the "cheerful crowd" have caught me many times. I tend to utilize whatever areas of feeling I need to experience to give meaning to the moment and place I am in. I am cutthroat and selfish when it actually comes down to my own healing. It's just survival to me, and I try and follow as much of a moral inner compass as I'm able, while also allowing myself a full-range of freedom to do what I need to do in order to recover/heal.

 

I guess I am putting focus into this reply because I'm sure it looks like I complain a great deal and am always in pain. That's not really the case, but I think that the pain is certainly real and it warrants expression for where I find myself at times. Not everyone has been through all I have been through in terms of chemical assault to the system (chemo/OD's/years of alcoholic binge drinking/polydrugging/trauma/a lot of pushing my body and mind etc. to the limit) in the end howerver… I don't really think these things matter. And I don't think our mind is so powerful it can think it's way into anything. I feel that healing is a whole body experience and it's also a spiritual one. By spiritual I mean common sense, and I don't know that we can judge for one another how far we have each been pushed in our ability to keep a common sense approach. I think that some of us are stronger in character, some of us have entirely different living situations and lifestyles and all these unique differences make it impossible to compare case by case.

 

Sometimes people put a lot into one area of healing, and it's the appropriate area for them at the time. Or they work on several areas at once, or there is the strategy of just waiting... too. All of these are valid, and I feel what helps is doing what the body tells me to do at any given time. I follow my body more than I follow my intellect, and I follow my emotions more than I follow my thoughts... and if I can feel something in my spirit that is good then those are the days that good or bad I find to be restorative and motivating on the deepest level. Some days it's a run of crap days, like tons of bad days at a job or at school, and my approach differs depending on personal feelings and themes and circumstances. I feel like people are really undereducated on the benefits of emoting/emotional expression in therapy. I think that catharsis, is a major factor in true healing. My mind is cold, but the emotions help, otherwise I'd be so selfish and cold. It's an embarrassing cross to bear at times, to have extraverted emotion and introverted thinking.. without these though I'd maybe just be a soulless robot with an even more selfish life based on thought/thinking.

 

It's a lot like having a bad trip, though I didn't do a ton of psychadellics I did do a certain amount of mushrooms. I even OD'd on mushrooms one time and also OD'd on Benadryl. I have seen and been scary places, and I think that I can't judge someone else's healing. I thought I'd be healed a year after jumping, but these meds are tricky little bastards and they seem to always have something up their sleeve. I never had the mindset that "I would become protracted" one day, but I also didn't rule out the possibility.

 

I know that many on here get frustrated with each other, but the fact is that I have an objective and open mind and because I value FG and abcd and lookingforward and all of these people who have been off for years and I find value in the ways they view things and express themselves... I get a lot out of this website. I like realistic, realism, real-real-real anything. I appreciate someone like a begood, because she is capable of realism and the imagination/inspiration part. abcd and looking are also good at this. FG has such a grounded style. Can't is interesting, there are so many who make it TRULY worth it to stick in there, communicate and heal. It's just a wide array of people on here who have great contributions and don't freak out constantly. Despite what it looks like, I actually don't freak out constantly either, but I do freak out. I'm thankful for myself too, because it's just another expression and I typically don't find personal expression and individuality threatening.

 

As stupid as my mind gets sometimes, it just comes back to personal and selfish perspectives that seem to save my life. I look at terrible times, as terrible times. I know that they eventually pass whether I am making a damn fool of myself or cool as a cucumber or cold like ice. Ahhh, ice sounds delightful right now.

 

Last year I drove myself to Oregon and to Mendocino. It was unconventional, and it was so healing. I had crazy adventures and I saw winter turn to spring on the one road. I was free for a time, with intense symptoms. My grandmother had just died, but I made the most of it. Sometimes people are there, and sometimes it's just freaking lonely. We're all human and flawed, but nature like that helps restore me. It's too bad there are wild turkeys everywhere here and the land is out of balance. Really these turkeys could be eaten, and that wouldn't be such a bad thing. There is a way to live with wildlife that the modern human has forgotten, which is respectful to the wildlife and also respectful to the human and the natural ecosystem and habitats they share. This turkey that I can eat legally and in a socially acceptable way is in plastic at the store, if I put gas in my car and go to pick it up and give paper $ to a clerk at a cash register... but really the situation is such that small children and the elderly could be attacked by turkeys that can go very fast and are very tall and menacing. It's been incredibly dramatic when I've had some of the interactions I've had with them. And I'm not a wimp, physically. But then there is a spiritual issue, in that I have great resentment for the state of things. I think the lesson is about being thankful, and there is more to the turkey lesson.

 

It's strange... but it's worth it and my life is not benzobuddies.

 

Benzobuddies is part of my life, and has helped save/maintain/restore it. It's a tool, I guess. Any tool is a weapon if you use it right. That could be a weapon pointed at me, or it could be a weapon pointed at the Goliath that is benzo withdrawal. Sometimes it's possible to loose perspective in this.

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Mon pilote I liked your post. Reading you is like reading a good book. You have a way of expressing things that really reaches the reader. I could relate to many things you said although we are in very different points. I'm nowhere near coming off the crap. However when you explain the way you never report to what point your bad days are bad I do that too, and when I have a very good moment, like a few minutes of peace, or even a few hours, I don't report how good it was. I think it's because I fear that in talking about something good I could lose it, or it won't happen again. I was impressed by the way you write and how deep your thoughts are.
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I really like you too, valiumnomore. I feel you can understand me, and I thank you.

 

Haha!, At least I think that's what you're saying. I do like you... and I get it.

 

And I think you will heal well.

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I really like you too, valiumnomore. I feel you can understand me, and I thank you.

 

Haha!, At least I think that's what you're saying. I do like you... and I get it.

 

And I think you will heal well.

 

OH dear, I hit such a rough patch that believe me, I'm holding for one year and I'm not even sure I will ever taper again. I have to be functional. I have no choice but work, raise a teenager and manage my finances. A month in acute made it clear I could do none of that and my daughter would end up with who knows. I updosed and I'm far from well but at least I don't feel with a foot in the psych ward and fearing I'll lose everything. I will hold for as long as it takes and if it doesn't work after a year I'd even consider updosing. I'll do ANYTHING to give my daughter a good childhood, teenage y years and get her through college. I would kill for her and I would die for her. I hope I can resume taper after a year holding, but I don't rule out my other options. My priority is my daughter's stability, not this darn taper. I also like you, you sound too special for this world. I hope it's the last time you have to come back here to learn these effing lessons.

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Mon pilote,

Thank you for the thoughtful post on your journey. Your last sentence hit home for me. Indeed anything can be a tool or weapon, pointed at oneself or the right enemy, including the mind itself. That's actually what I feel like i should work on more. Hope you have a good day today.

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I really don't think I have it all down, nor do I feel this... and I know that that is true. I appreciate the compliments, thanks, it's just that I'm not responsible for anything good in me. :smitten:

 

This is more a painful realization, than a false humility.

 

Last night I was awful. Thank you for the kindness, it is helpful, it's difficult to find balance.

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  • 1 month later...

Does anyone know if there is any way to suggest to BIC to try to obtain the rights to this documentary & get it made onto DVD?  You tube link's below:

 

Just found this: Anybody know if this is what's on that youtube link?  :-\  Thanks.  :) 

http://www.psychmedaware.org/ashton_DVD.html

 

It's almost an hour long.  I view youtube @ desktop computer.  Since my body's in pain & my eyes get itchy & fatigued, I'd love to be able to watch it, but in more leisure & about as comfortably as I can get.  Depending on its' content, I might even be inclined to purchase for closest family members (outside of own home) to view, as well. 

 

I did do a google search for benzos/DVDs: 

Benzo Withdrawal: Welcome To Hell by Brian Baxter

 

              31EXvNakx8L._SR600%2C315_PIWhiteStrip%2CBottomLeft%2C0%2C35_PIAmznPrime%2CBottomLeft%2C0%2C-5_PIStarRatingTHREE%2CBottomLeft%2C360%2C-6_SR600%2C315_ZA(5%20Reviews)%2C445%2C291%2C400%2C400%2Carial%2C12%2C4%2C0%2C0%2C5_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

 

It's on youtube.  Link below.  I've watched 20 minutes.  So far, I like how he is presenting himself & calmly explaining his situation.  I must go to have some water & eat something, myself, so will view rest another time. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI_iRAN3EnI

 

 

 

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I realized this was moved to the Chewing the Fat thread so I'll share my opinions on the word "protracted".

 

10 things I hate about the word “protracted” on BB by seltzerer (in no particular order):

1. it’s divisive (hearts and minds)

2. it’s counter-productive

3. it does not protect anyone from judgement

4. it scares new members

5. it has no physiological basis

6. it minimizes others’ suffering

7. it does not protect anyone from scary posts

8. it’s a completely made up social construct

9. it’s a label

10. I’m sure Dr. Ashton would not approve

 

Why are you sure Dr. Ashton would not approve?

Read this: https://benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha03.htm#27

 

It was Heather Ashton who actually coined the term "protracted withdrawal".

Certainly she approved of that term's use.

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Ptsdmiracle,

 

When I'm functional and it isn't so bad, it's better than ever being alive. The "windows" are so nice. It's worth it being off benzodiazepines. I think it's that it's this frightening sometimes that really concerns me. Some days are symptomatic but bearable and so much worth being alive, too. I guess that means that the worst days are also worth it then.

 

I disagree with some posters in thinking that it always has to be some defect or deficiency or due to a rapid taper or previous drug use that causes a bad reaction to benzos. Or even protracted. I personally feel these are the worst medications or drugs on the planet. Bar none.

 

I am a firm believer in brain plasticity, and even cellular regeneration in any area of the body. I think we can heal ourselves with diet and things we do to get the feelings of life back. Sometimes I'm heavy-handed when it comes to clearing up judgements I feel are not beneficial to the recovery of myself or others that have their root in fear.

 

To be perfectly honest, I do a lot and I get a lot out of life, but it isn't to say that the pain doesn't shock me still and overtake me at times. I don't report a lot on windows because they are so awesome and sacred to me. I am very selfish and protective of my good days.

 

On good days and when I do a lot even with symptoms, I am very quiet about it. I don't say a whole lot, for some reason, I just enjoy them selfishly.

 

I'm not really sure what that is all about. I've had some very amazing windows. I just think really that it's my path to healing and that I am perfecting and exacting... and then also I feel like it's sort of bragging--the fact that it's so good sometimes and I feel life force flowing through me. It's hard to know what approach to take in reporting those times.

 

I'm really not as bad at complaining, but I also don't do that in proportion to the actual suffering I experience. I just tend to store things, even if it looks like I'm being vocal. A lot of it is kept private, I tend to agree with all the protracted members on this thread a lot about everything. If it hadn't been for the people on this thread, even some newer ones, I don't really know.

 

I have abused alcohol and marijuana quite a lot, I have experience with psych drugs I haven't been able to list yet. I know there are "worse" cases, but I have done some major damage and been through severe traumas and nearly died many, many times. This all began many years ago around 17. I'm 34 now. I have recovered from a remarkable amount, but I think that this drug is such an exception in it's ability to harm me. I still have faith, it's just that the suffering is so severe at times.

 

If I am honest about my opinion, it has been very positive from the beginning. This is where readers will balk, but they don't really know my internal thoughts... they just see what I post. My responsibility is to my healing first, though I try to free up thought and feeling space for myself and others that isn't restricted by stuffy, fear-based opinions. I freak out though, and the "cheerful crowd" have caught me many times. I tend to utilize whatever areas of feeling I need to experience to give meaning to the moment and place I am in. I am cutthroat and selfish when it actually comes down to my own healing. It's just survival to me, and I try and follow as much of a moral inner compass as I'm able, while also allowing myself a full-range of freedom to do what I need to do in order to recover/heal.

 

I guess I am putting focus into this reply because I'm sure it looks like I complain a great deal and am always in pain. That's not really the case, but I think that the pain is certainly real and it warrants expression for where I find myself at times. Not everyone has been through all I have been through in terms of chemical assault to the system (chemo/OD's/years of alcoholic binge drinking/polydrugging/trauma/a lot of pushing my body and mind etc. to the limit) in the end howerver… I don't really think these things matter. And I don't think our mind is so powerful it can think it's way into anything. I feel that healing is a whole body experience and it's also a spiritual one. By spiritual I mean common sense, and I don't know that we can judge for one another how far we have each been pushed in our ability to keep a common sense approach. I think that some of us are stronger in character, some of us have entirely different living situations and lifestyles and all these unique differences make it impossible to compare case by case.

 

Sometimes people put a lot into one area of healing, and it's the appropriate area for them at the time. Or they work on several areas at once, or there is the strategy of just waiting... too. All of these are valid, and I feel what helps is doing what the body tells me to do at any given time. I follow my body more than I follow my intellect, and I follow my emotions more than I follow my thoughts... and if I can feel something in my spirit that is good then those are the days that good or bad I find to be restorative and motivating on the deepest level. Some days it's a run of crap days, like tons of bad days at a job or at school, and my approach differs depending on personal feelings and themes and circumstances. I feel like people are really undereducated on the benefits of emoting/emotional expression in therapy. I think that catharsis, is a major factor in true healing. My mind is cold, but the emotions help, otherwise I'd be so selfish and cold. It's an embarrassing cross to bear at times, to have extraverted emotion and introverted thinking.. without these though I'd maybe just be a soulless robot with an even more selfish life based on thought/thinking.

 

It's a lot like having a bad trip, though I didn't do a ton of psychadellics I did do a certain amount of mushrooms. I even OD'd on mushrooms one time and also OD'd on Benadryl. I have seen and been scary places, and I think that I can't judge someone else's healing. I thought I'd be healed a year after jumping, but these meds are tricky little bastards and they seem to always have something up their sleeve. I never had the mindset that "I would become protracted" one day, but I also didn't rule out the possibility.

 

I know that many on here get frustrated with each other, but the fact is that I have an objective and open mind and because I value FG and abcd and lookingforward and all of these people who have been off for years and I find value in the ways they view things and express themselves... I get a lot out of this website. I like realistic, realism, real-real-real anything. I appreciate someone like a begood, because she is capable of realism and the imagination/inspiration part. abcd and looking are also good at this. FG has such a grounded style. Can't is interesting, there are so many who make it TRULY worth it to stick in there, communicate and heal. It's just a wide array of people on here who have great contributions and don't freak out constantly. Despite what it looks like, I actually don't freak out constantly either, but I do freak out. I'm thankful for myself too, because it's just another expression and I typically don't find personal expression and individuality threatening.

 

As stupid as my mind gets sometimes, it just comes back to personal and selfish perspectives that seem to save my life. I look at terrible times, as terrible times. I know that they eventually pass whether I am making a damn fool of myself or cool as a cucumber or cold like ice. Ahhh, ice sounds delightful right now.

 

Last year I drove myself to Oregon and to Mendocino. It was unconventional, and it was so healing. I had crazy adventures and I saw winter turn to spring on the one road. I was free for a time, with intense symptoms. My grandmother had just died, but I made the most of it. Sometimes people are there, and sometimes it's just freaking lonely. We're all human and flawed, but nature like that helps restore me. It's too bad there are wild turkeys everywhere here and the land is out of balance. Really these turkeys could be eaten, and that wouldn't be such a bad thing. There is a way to live with wildlife that the modern human has forgotten, which is respectful to the wildlife and also respectful to the human and the natural ecosystem and habitats they share. This turkey that I can eat legally and in a socially acceptable way is in plastic at the store, if I put gas in my car and go to pick it up and give paper $ to a clerk at a cash register... but really the situation is such that small children and the elderly could be attacked by turkeys that can go very fast and are very tall and menacing. It's been incredibly dramatic when I've had some of the interactions I've had with them. And I'm not a wimp, physically. But then there is a spiritual issue, in that I have great resentment for the state of things. I think the lesson is about being thankful, and there is more to the turkey lesson.

 

It's strange... but it's worth it and my life is not benzobuddies.

 

Benzobuddies is part of my life, and has helped save/maintain/restore it. It's a tool, I guess. Any tool is a weapon if you use it right. That could be a weapon pointed at me, or it could be a weapon pointed at the Goliath that is benzo withdrawal. Sometimes it's possible to loose perspective in this.

 

I'm sure glad this post was bumped because I missed seeing this before.  Wow dude!!!  What a gift you are to BB.  :smitten:

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Gosh thanks, I was embarrassed that anyone may have the additional, unhindered opportunity to see that again. 😳

 

Hey Whoopsie, I'm so sorry... I should have just thanked you instead of being even more self involved because I get self-conscious. I truly appreciate you here too and want to thank you for your sincere compliment :smitten:.

 

I am not embarrassed by you, Whoopsie, or your compliment. I like you so much and consider you a true friend. It was my stupid move there, please forgive me. I get worried that people hate me on here and get sick of my posts. I had two fallouts with buddies this year and I was spiraling when I made that post and I am still hurt by the way those relationships ended.

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Mon Pilote ... I am dumbfounded by your profound sensitivity to others and to sharing your own hardships.  I'm very touched by you, daily.  Thank you for sharing your true self.  I feel like you are a role model for how people really need to be with each other.  Like I said, and I know it could be embarrassing to hear such high praise, but I really do feel like we are all blessed by your presence here on BB. 

 

:mybuddy:  :smitten:

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[aa...]

To the original poster,

 

This Feb I will be 5 years off, I considered myself healed about two years, that includes sleep and all the little symptom but I was/am sensitive to other medications, that's my last symptom. I don't even see anyone I tapered with from here around my time, I know they are all off and back to their life. Your fear is common to have try to ignore it. I never worried about healing because my fear was being afraid there was no way to ever taper off due to my Doctor saying my medication is for the rest of my life. So my fear was settled when I found a taper that suited me.  I pop in here once in a great while and I hope this post helps you.

 

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