Valium wd sx starting earlier than expected during taper.

I started tapering 15 mg of valium at a slow rate of .03 mg a day.  From 15 mg to around 12 mg, I felt better than I had in years on ativan.  My only sx were sedation and agitation after co from ativan to valium, which was a tremendous relief from all the ativan sx I had.  I was on ativan daily for around 8 years before c/o to valium.

But now, at 12 mg my sx are starting to ramp up a little even though I am still slowly tapering .03 mg a day.  The good:  sedation is almost gone.  The bad: agitation is still here and has been joined by muscle aches, severe shoulder joint pain, and the old anxiety is creeping up again every day.

I thought tapering so slowly that these sx would not show up after only tapering down 3 mg.  Is this what is know as windows and waves, because I hope it just doesn't keep getting worse the lower I go.  Maybe it is because I was taking ativan for so many years.  There is another buddie that also started at 15 mg of valium and has helped me tremendously getting my taper started, but this person did not start having sx worsen until around 5-6 mg of valium.  I know we all react differently to tapers, but this is dis-heartening to happen so soon and with such a long way to go.

Just wondering if anyone else out there has had a similar experience early during your taper from valium?  I hate to slow down from an already slow taper of .03 mg a day already, but I don't want to wait and let the sx get worse.  I am still able to function in society, but the past 2 weeks have been getting more uncomfortable.  I hope it is just a wave, and thanks to all of you for listening to my situation.  Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

JoJo

Hey JoJo,

Valium is not , imo, great for anxiety.  Valium is made up of three metabolites, they work on sleep, muscle relaxant, and anxiety.  My muscles got worse on Valium also, and didn't calm my anxiety, nearly as well as Xanax.  It sedated me so badly in beginning, I could barely hold my head up, but after months of tapering, I can get by on one nap now.

Also, it doesn't appear you are lowering your % as you go, you are actually going up. You need to redo your numbers at least once a month to keep the % lowering, instead of rising.

I found Valium harder to taper from than a lot more of people.  You may need to hold off and on through your dlmt, to keep the med evenly in your blood stream.  You will have to work with it to find out what works for you.  Good luck, Mary 💚💚💚💚

Hey JoJo,

 

Valium is not , imo, great for anxiety.  Valium is made up of three metabolites, they work on sleep, muscle relaxant, and anxiety.  My muscles got worse on Valium also, and didn't calm my anxiety, nearly as well as Xanax.  It sedated me so badly in beginning, I could barely hold my head up, but after months of tapering, I can get by on one nap now.

Also, it doesn't appear you are lowering your % as you go, you are actually going up. You need to redo your numbers at least once a month to keep the % lowering, instead of rising.

I found Valium harder to taper from than a lot more of people.  You may need to hold off and on through your dlmt, to keep the med evenly in your blood stream.  You will have to work with it to find out what works for you.  Good luck, Mary 💚💚💚💚

Thanks Mary,

I have kept my reduction at .03 mg every 33 days since I started tapering 15 mg of Valium.  And I do realize the % rate goes up for every 1 mg I taper, I was just hoping I could get to 10 mg at this rate before I had to slow down.

From 15 mg to 14 mg it was 6.66% in 33 days.  Then from 14 mg to 13 mg it was 7.14% in 33 days.  The last taper from 13 mg to 12 mg was 7.69%, same time frame.  At this rate I would have to get down to 10 mg to have a 10% cut in 33 days.  Even though I feel this is slow, like you said I may have to re-evaluater and slow it down earlier.

Thanks and best wishes,

JoJo

Hey JoJo,

 

Valium is not , imo, great for anxiety.  Valium is made up of three metabolites, they work on sleep, muscle relaxant, and anxiety.  My muscles got worse on Valium also, and didn't calm my anxiety, nearly as well as Xanax.  It sedated me so badly in beginning, I could barely hold my head up, but after months of tapering, I can get by on one nap now.

Also, it doesn't appear you are lowering your % as you go, you are actually going up. You need to redo your numbers at least once a month to keep the % lowering, instead of rising.

I found Valium harder to taper from than a lot more of people.  You may need to hold off and on through your dlmt, to keep the med evenly in your blood stream.  You will have to work with it to find out what works for you.  Good luck, Mary 💚💚💚💚

 

Thanks Mary,

 

I have kept my reduction at .03 mg every 33 days since I started tapering 15 mg of Valium.  And I do realize the % rate goes up for every 1 mg I taper, I was just hoping I could get to 10 mg at this rate before I had to slow down.

 

From 15 mg to 14 mg it was 6.66% in 33 days.  Then from 14 mg to 13 mg it was 7.14% in 33 days.  The last taper from 13 mg to 12 mg was 7.69%, same time frame.  At this rate I would have to get down to 10 mg to have a 10% cut in 33 days.  Even though I feel this is slow, like you said I may have to re-evaluater and slow it down earlier.

 

Thanks and best wishes,

JoJo

I understand, I was hoping I could get to 5 mgs, doing 4%. , ain't looking good  . But better slow down than end up miserable  . Mary

I really appreciate your input Mary.

Thanks again,

JoJo

I'll chime in and say that, while I am tapering from a lower starting dose, the first part of the taper wasn't particularly easy for me either. In my opinion, I think the biggest mistake you can make, is to try to "push through it" and keep tapering at the same rate. Your body is giving you sxs because there isn't enough benzo in your system, so by keeping up the pace and pushing onward, you are introducing too much risk in this process.

At the end of the day, I'll just preface these comments by saying that for me functionality is my primary concern and time to the finish line is a distant second (but I am also fortunate in that I have a very understanding doctor who is willing to work with me on this). Assuming you have the same, I would simply just hold or slow down your taper until the symptoms lessen. There have been parts of my taper where I have needed to updose for a few days and hold to regain stability, and then I just continued on my way at a slower pace. It's been quite non-linear for me with no rhyme or reason as to why different stretches of this journey gave me a hard time.

Do you supplement with anything else? Kefir and fish oil, oddly, have helped me a LOT (and CBD oil too, at times). If I don't take either of those, I am almost guaranteed I'll experience sxs. Good luck, and I think you are smart by taking the approach that you are (slow and gradual) since it actually allows you the opportunity to course correct before you get in too far over your head (and Valium is a sneaky one at that given the long half life).

Thanks for the information Nologic.

I do not take any supplements as I am concerned of experimenting with what works for some people, but makes feel worse.  The last 4 days I have been nearly sx free without changing anything.  Possibly the window and waves I read about.  I just didn't think they would start this early in my taper.

I agree that trying to push through sx is a bad idea and I am planning on slowing down.  I have to have the mind set that I was on these meds for over 8 years, so if it takes 2 years or more to get off them, so be it.

Thanks again and best wishes,

JoJo

JoJo,

Oh how I relate with what you’ve shared.  I crossed from K at 18 mgs V.  Got the sedation and agitation after crossing over, but sedation has lifted.  Now it’s plain ol fatigue. It makes no sense to me why at certain points I’ve felt better and others, worse.  I started with .04/day then tried .03/day, actually had more holds during the time I was doing .03.  Bumped it back up to .04 and always allow myself to hold as needed.  After this last hold I’ve slowed back to .03.  The best I’ve felt so far was while doing .04, cutting from 12mgs straight to 10.8 with no holds.  I do not get it at all.  Like you, I was hoping micro tapering Valium would be easier, especially at higher doses. 

Your rate sounds very conservative and safe.  At least, in my opinion.  I haven’t read your history of posts yet, so not sure how stable you were to start. 

I’m so confused about rate because I know people who have kept a steady daily rate and pushed through, got off and felt better.  Even felt better as they got to low doses.  But I also know people who go very slow, even .01/day, and are very symptomatic where holds don’t even help. 

It seems to be very random for me and haven’t found rhyme or reason in any of these random phases.  Maybe like you said, windows and waves. 

If you slow your rate or incorporate holds, please keep us updated whether anything works and helps you.  Wishing you the best and hope you find relief. 

Love,

Uni❤️

Just to share my experience if that is also a possibility for you JoJo.

Valium messed up my muscle after 5 days I started it, even before tapering. So it's not just wd in my case. I wish I stopped it right there as after holding to it longer not only damaged my muscle and joints in a huge manner also caused more muscle problems from wd.

I have many severe problems from valium, both side effects and wd, but muscle damage alone totally crippled me.

I am at 11 mg even today and as unicorn said, the sedation has been replaced by daily fatigue.  The constant w/d s/x throughout has been the irritability.  The smallest of things either make me angry or get on my nerves, which triggers anxiety.  I used to laugh at the stupid things I would see people do in public or in traffic, but now instead of laughing at them I find myself shaking my head in disgust and cussing at them.

I have to keep telling myself that this is not me, but the person these meds have created, and one day I will be back to myself again.

Unicorn, I also have a hard time finding a happy medium tapper rate.  I have bee at .03 mg daily since I started and every time I decide to slow down because of increased s/x, I start feeling better for a few days.  It's a never ending confusing cycle.  As of now, my main s/x are fatigue, muscle and joint pain in upper back and shoulders along with the irritability.

Hope everyone gets to feeling better.

JoJo

Just to share my experience if that is also a possibility for you JoJo.

 

Valium messed up my muscle after 5 days I started it, even before tapering. So it's not just wd in my case. I wish I stopped it right there as after holding to it longer not only damaged my muscle and joints in a huge manner also caused more muscle problems from wd.

 

I have many severe problems from valium, both side effects and wd, but muscle damage alone totally crippled me.

This is really interesting and helpful, 4mom.  Like you, I knew right when I was fully crossed over Valium and I didn’t agree so I had to immediately start tapering.  Absolutely toxic reaction.  It was too late to go back at that point, as my doc refused to rx Klonopin ever again.  I’ve noticed some things improve as I lower my dose, so I agree with you that so much of it is from the drug itself.  One reason why I try to keep moving, as able.  And of course, many other issues I attribute to wd.  Relate so much with having many problems from this drug.  Thank you so much for sharing, as it really helps. 

Wishing everyone better days soon,

Uni ❤️

I hate to slow down from an already slow taper of .03 mg a day already, but I don't want to wait and let the sx get worse.

jojo, I don't see the downside in reducing your taper rate. Even to 2.5. imo, it's unwise to let the s/x creep up. Once you're in the weeds, it's hard to get out. At least it was for me.

Just a thought.

Hope you are having a better day.

Katz

I hate to slow down from an already slow taper of .03 mg a day already, but I don't want to wait and let the sx get worse.

 

jojo, I don't see the downside in reducing your taper rate. Even to 2.5. imo, it's unwise to let the s/x creep up. Once you're in the weeds, it's hard to get out. At least it was for me.

 

Just a thought.

 

Hope you are having a better day.

 

 

Katz

:thumbsup:  I am so with you Katz..... I just want to get through the rest of this , following my sxs and going slow.  Really hoping too, it effects how I feel when I come off. 

I hate to slow down from an already slow taper of .03 mg a day already, but I don't want to wait and let the sx get worse.

 

jojo, I don't see the downside in reducing your taper rate. Even to 2.5. imo, it's unwise to let the s/x creep up. Once you're in the weeds, it's hard to get out. At least it was for me.

 

Just a thought.

 

Hope you are having a better day.

 

Katz  , 

 

You have yet to be wrong with any of your advice to me on how to start and continue my taper, so I see no reason to doubt you know.  I will slow down to 2.5 a day, because from what you have told me I damn sure don't want to go near those weeds.

 

JoJo  

 

 

Katz

Weeds.

A miserable place to be.

 

 

Weeds.

 

A miserable place to be.

:laugh:

Jojo,

This is not you.  It’s the drug.  Please keep telling yourself this.  Or reach out for reassurance when you need it.  I’ve had to work soooo hard at not buying into the obsessive worries I have about this version of myself and i’ve heavily relied on reassurance from others.  I’m sorry you’re experiencing this, too.  It’s just awful to feel like your true essence is tainted, gone even, and something is wrong with you, but I can tell you from similar experience...  this is not you! Maybe this will give you some hope (i hope ) - I’m starting to notice my true personality coming back a little, as I’ve recently been able to have humor here and there.  My husband noticed right away how different I became on Valium - negative, depressed, irritable, paranoid, sometimes even angry.  So not like me!  But he’s also commented recently that I seem to be coming out of the dark and heavy void I was in.  He sees more life in me and I’m way more talkative and able to make jokes and laugh.  The fatigue is also not normal.  It’s totally the drug.  Before Valium I was brighter in spirit, more sociable and humorous, optimistic, had more motivation, did more, etc.  Just want you to know you’re not alone with any of this and hope it helps in some way to hear from others that it’s a thing.  We’re still in here. 

Hang in there!  Wishing you the best, Jojo ❤️

Uni

 

 

Weeds.

 

A miserable place to be.

Katz,

This actually made me laugh.  Great humor.  And great visual demonstration of what we don’t want.