[Fl...] Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Just got finished watching a Ted talk by someone who had a rough time coming off of prescribed opiates. He was on stage crying in the middle of his speech, and my first thought was "Cool story bro. Let me tell you about benzodiazepines". I know the opiod issue has a lot in common with the benzo issue and I'm not saying that opiod withdrawal isn't awful or that we should look down on anyone who has had that experience, but it kind of bothers me that for years I have been dealing with something that most people claim is worse than opiod withdrawal, yet no one really wants to acknowledge that it is a problem. Where is our Ted talk? At least everyone acknowledges the opiod issue and they are taking some steps to correct it, benzos are barely part of the prescription drug conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Te...] Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Where is our Ted talk? Excellent question, FG! I've been wondering the same thing. Maybe since it's not readily accepted quite yet that these drugs have been part of a "silent epidemic," there's fear in coming forward? Something is holding people back from full public acknowledgment and disclosure. I would certainly like that to end NOW. I'd be a poor public speaker with horrible stage fright. But to have someone take that step of giving a TED talk would be a breath of fresh air! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[bu...] Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Just got finished watching a Ted talk by someone who had a rough time coming off of prescribed opiates. He was on stage crying in the middle of his speech, and my first thought was "Cool story bro. Let me tell you about benzodiazepines". I know the opiod issue has a lot in common with the benzo issue and I'm not saying that opiod withdrawal isn't awful or that we should look down on anyone who has had that experience, but it kind of bothers me that for years I have been dealing with something that most people claim is worse than opiod withdrawal, yet no one really wants to acknowledge that it is a problem. Where is our Ted talk? At least everyone acknowledges the opiod issue and they are taking some steps to correct it, benzos are barely part of the prescription drug conversation. 1) Any one that claims that knows zero about opiod addiction/witdrawal. 2) Nobody dies from benzo withdrawal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[se...] Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Just got finished watching a Ted talk by someone who had a rough time coming off of prescribed opiates. He was on stage crying in the middle of his speech, and my first thought was "Cool story bro. Let me tell you about benzodiazepines". I know the opiod issue has a lot in common with the benzo issue and I'm not saying that opiod withdrawal isn't awful or that we should look down on anyone who has had that experience, but it kind of bothers me that for years I have been dealing with something that most people claim is worse than opiod withdrawal, yet no one really wants to acknowledge that it is a problem. Where is our Ted talk? At least everyone acknowledges the opiod issue and they are taking some steps to correct it, benzos are barely part of the prescription drug conversation. 1) Any one that claims that knows zero about opiod addiction/witdrawal. 2) Nobody dies from benzo withdrawal. Hmm. Have you been through both benzo and opioid withdrawal? I think you have the death part backwards. People die from benzo withdrawal. My understanding is both are relatively rare but perhaps you’re thinking about opioid overdose causing death, not withdrawal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[...] Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Just got finished watching a Ted talk by someone who had a rough time coming off of prescribed opiates. He was on stage crying in the middle of his speech, and my first thought was "Cool story bro. Let me tell you about benzodiazepines". I know the opiod issue has a lot in common with the benzo issue and I'm not saying that opiod withdrawal isn't awful or that we should look down on anyone who has had that experience, but it kind of bothers me that for years I have been dealing with something that most people claim is worse than opiod withdrawal, yet no one really wants to acknowledge that it is a problem. Where is our Ted talk? At least everyone acknowledges the opiod issue and they are taking some steps to correct it, benzos are barely part of the prescription drug conversation. 1) Any one that claims that knows zero about opiod addiction/witdrawal. 2) Nobody dies from benzo withdrawal. Not true! And you can find such articles in the News section, mostly of prisoners in jail being pulled off their benzo too quickly and dying from grand mal seizures. Then there's this published case study (two second Google search): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19465812 Need more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[ma...] Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Old people die from benzo withdrawal or related complications Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[bu...] Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 "Benzodiazepine Overdose and Withdrawal Are Essentially Never Fatal" "Caveat:Benzodiazepines are very dangerous when mixed with other sedating drugs such as alcoholand opioids. Drug mixtures that include benzodiazepines are very often fatal. Benzodiazepines do enhance the lethality of alcohol and opioids. The point of this document is that benzodiazepines by themselves are essentially never fatal." http://web.mit.edu/zoz/Public/Benzo_OD_and_WD_are_not_fatal.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[se...] Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 "Benzodiazepine Overdose and Withdrawal Are Essentially Never Fatal" "Caveat:Benzodiazepines are very dangerous when mixed with other sedating drugs such as alcoholand opioids. Drug mixtures that include benzodiazepines are very often fatal. Benzodiazepines do enhance the lethality of alcohol and opioids. The point of this document is that benzodiazepines by themselves are essentially never fatal." http://web.mit.edu/zoz/Public/Benzo_OD_and_WD_are_not_fatal.pdf As much authority as you portend here on BB, I would expect a deeper understanding of both benzo and opioid w/d related death. I will have to look but I believe there’s research to indicate benzo w/d is more lethal than opioid w/d. Opioid overdose however is much more lethal than benzo overdose. Furthermore death is NOT the only indicator of severity. Most people understand that benzo w/d is longer and leads to more severe disability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[...] Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Lol, Builder, it reads like a sales pitch for benzos: "Benzodiazepine withdrawal is essentially never fatal. There are only two case reports of fatal benzodiazepine withdrawal in the scientific literature. Tens of millions of people have gone through benzodiazepine withdrawal, and only two of them have died." So because the author's only found two published case reports, he concludes that only two people have ever died. "Benzodiazepine withdrawal does sometimes cause seizures, and if you have a seizure while driving you could crash the car and die." "Benzodiazepine withdrawal is quite mild compared to ethanol and barbiturate withdrawal." And his final paragraph: "Even including former alcoholics, there have only been two fatal cases of benzodiazepine withdrawal. Only two cases." Only two cases!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Te...] Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Just got finished watching a Ted talk by someone who had a rough time coming off of prescribed opiates. He was on stage crying in the middle of his speech, and my first thought was "Cool story bro. Let me tell you about benzodiazepines". I know the opiod issue has a lot in common with the benzo issue and I'm not saying that opiod withdrawal isn't awful or that we should look down on anyone who has had that experience, but it kind of bothers me that for years I have been dealing with something that most people claim is worse than opiod withdrawal, yet no one really wants to acknowledge that it is a problem. Where is our Ted talk? At least everyone acknowledges the opiod issue and they are taking some steps to correct it, benzos are barely part of the prescription drug conversation. 1) Any one that claims that knows zero about opiod addiction/witdrawal. 2) Nobody dies from benzo withdrawal. HUH??? Where have you been all this time? Didn't you see the seizures that people in jail have gone through and died from because they were on benzos? And what about all the suicides??? Don't those count for anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[or...] Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Hmm. We have such an easy time, right? No one dies from benzo withdrawal. BS. How in h*** do you know, Builder? I do know that a buddy -- quite a good BB "friend" -- committed suicide in 2013 as the result of her benzo withdrawal. Enough said. Katz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Fl...] Posted July 24, 2019 Author Share Posted July 24, 2019 Benzos don't usually kill you. They just make you alternate between feeling like you are going to die and wishing you would die. Sometimes for years on end. But of course someone who is lucky enough to heal relatively quickly wouldn't know what that is like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[ma...] Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Opioids also don't usually kill you. The problem is that sometimes they do. The same happens with benzos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[be...] Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 If benzos only kill one out of a million people and you are that millionth person, it’s 100% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[bu...] Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 If benzos only kill one out of a million people and you are that millionth person, it’s 100% of the time. The same thing would be true for liqhtning strikes and shark attacks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[be...] Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Yes it would. Correct. Ask the parent about a child who died from a shark attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ca...] Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 I hate sharks.. I hate opiates.. I hate Benzos.. I hate antibiotics, And I think I would hate AD’s too... Then there are Crocodiles, Snakes and spiders.. Not to mention bike eating cars... Plenty in life to highlight our mortality.. -Take your pick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[be...] Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 :'( :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[bu...] Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Plenty in life to highlight our mortality.. -Take your pick... :thumbsup: So if we can all agree that the risk of death from benzos is about the same as the risk from lightning strikes, shark attacks, or "bike-eating cars", then I concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[be...] Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Yep. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[ma...] Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 I don't agree Builder, sorry. I think we don't have enough data and what I see shows otherwise. If you are on a cliff and someone pushes you and you lose your balance, fall and die, we can also say that the cause of death was not the push but your loss of balance or the fact that you were near a cliff. I think this happens in relation to benzos with a lot of people, namely old people but not only. What I see is that half the world is drugged with this shit, namely the elderly and these die from things that benzos cause a lot like a fall. Now, we could say that they die because they are old or because the fell but, as above, for me they die because they were drugged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[bu...] Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 I don't agree Builder, sorry. I think we don't have enough data and what I see shows otherwise. If you are on a cliff and someone pushes you and you lose your balance, fall and die, we can also say that the cause of death was not the push but your loss of balance or the fact that you were near a cliff. I think this happens in relation to benzos with a lot of people, namely old people but not only. What I see is that half the world is drugged with this shit, namely the elderly and these die from things that benzos cause a lot like a fall. Now, we could say that they die because they are old or because the fell but, as above, for me they die because they were drugged. Benzos have been around (and widely prescribed) for over 60 years. So I'm sure if there was a serious mortality risk, there would be a wealth of data by now. The fact that benzos are not particularly dangerous is why they are only schedule IV drugs. Conversely, most opiods are schedule II. Note that the Feds and several states are suing and even trying to prosecute opioid mfgrs/suppliers, but have never saw any need to pursue the mfgrs of benzos. The risks from benzos are not even in the same league with opiods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[ma...] Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 I don't appreciate arguments of authority, specially in this case in which authorities make so many mistakes. The fact is that we don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[se...] Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Benzos have been around (and widely prescribed) for over 60 years. So I'm sure if there was a serious mortality risk, there would be a wealth of data by now. The fact that benzos are not particularly dangerous is why they are only schedule IV drugs. Conversely, most opiods are schedule II. Note that the Feds and several states are suing and even trying to prosecute opioid mfgrs/suppliers, but have never saw any need to pursue the mfgrs of benzos. The risks from benzos are not even in the same league with opiods. Opioids do have higher mortality rates because the risk of dying from overdose is much higher. That’s overdose, not withdrawal. Benzo withdrawal is more lethal. The addiction potential of opioids is also higher. They are associated with stronger cravings and a greater, more rapid risk of physiological dependence. People will engage in much riskier behaviors with an opioid addiction. The reason you think opioids are more dangerous, like most people do, is that it’s easier to quantify mortality rather than morbidity and there’s much more outrage when someone dies because of a drug rather than being disabled by one. It’s a public health dilemma. Think about the mortality and morbidity associated with smoking tobacco which we now know, far exceeds both opioids and benzos. How long did it take for us to understand, measure, and acknowledge that problem? Any logic derived from public or legal opinion or the FDA system of drug scheduling is flawed. Benzos are more widely prescribed as you point out particularly in older adults, a vulnerable population where health problems are often ignored and denied. Add up all that morbidity in all the populations and I'm willing to bet it dwarfs the opioid problem that's all the outrage these days. It is bringing some light to the benzo problem however and that's good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[...] Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Who cares how “dangerous” they are or how many people die from them? The point is that they cause tremendous suffering on par with / greater than opioids without the same recognition or awareness. Nightmarish. Sometimes I’m in absolute shock that the thing that’s f’ing up my life is some weird invisible affliction that’s not recognized by the medical community as a thing and the public doesn’t really know about it. I’d almost rather have a “real” disease so I could get disability, help, understanding, etc. As if the brutality wasn’t enough. So yea, like FG said, “where’s our TED talk”?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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