Am I addicted

Can someone Please help me figure this out.

I take zopiklone since a few months but I sleep shorter and shorter time. The doctor tell me that i am propably not well enough yet. That I will start feeling better soon and that I shall continue to take zopiklone until I feel better. Then the sleep will return. But I feel that I am already feeling better but the sleep is getting poorer!? I also feel tired and not at all finished sleeping when I wake up. Can it be that my brain is dependent on zopiklone just to fall a sleep and will not fall back to sleep when I wake up in the morning? I can fall back to sleep fewer and fewer times and then suddenly my brain is wide awake and there is no point trying to sleep any more. It is impossible to get more than 6 hours and now I also need two propovane 25mg to help me get these hours.

If I am right then, contradictionary to what the doctor say, I will sleep shorter and shorter! The sleep will not return at all. In fact it will propably get worse and the doctor will blame it on my mental condition.

Does anyone have any experience from this kind of problem?

Z-drugs (Ambien, Zopiklone, etc.) are very short-acting as they are intended to just help you fall asleep, but then wake up not feeling all drugged out. The prescribing information for these drugs states that they are intended for short-term use only (no more than nightly for 3 weeks). When taken for too long many people start to experience drug tolerance and find that they need more and more of the drug in order to obtain what amounts to less and less sleep over time. Once this happens there is no recourse but to get off the drug one way or another because the downward  spiral seems to have no limits on had bad it can make things be.

 

To put things simply, these drugs stimulate the part of your brain chemistry that helps you to relax and fall asleep. After a while, your brain detects this as being an imbalance and sets to work making things right by fighting the effects of the drug. That is what causes drug tolerance. In our desperation for sleep we take more of the drug, causing our brain to fight harder to counter it. Things can often be pretty messed up by the time we realize the extent of the problem we find ourselves in and want to get off the drug. Unfortunately our brain chemistry is not very vast when it comes to finding balance so when we decrease the dose of the drug it is still working to fight off the effects of it. Now not only do we have less of the artificially calming effects of the drug in our system, but due to our brain's misguide efforts to correct the imbalance, we also have less of the naturally occurring brain chemistry going on that helps to calm us. As a result we can become an anxious wreck that is deprived of almost all sleep until things get straightened out (withdrawal). This can take a fairly long time and the work does not really start until you stop taking in any more of the drug.

 

Tapering helps take some of the shock out of the process of rebalancing our brain chemistry, but z-drugs are so short-acting that it is common to experience withdrawal symptoms such as anxiety, depression, dizziness, etc. between doses when the drug wears off. This is why tapering can be extra difficult with this type of drug. Some folks (such as myself) decide to do a rapid taper because of this, but I don't really know which method is best or worst in most cases as it is hard either way. The only thing that is pretty certain is that you have to find a way to stop taking these drugs once they no longer offer you much sleep.

 

I hope that this helps you understand things a little better.

I am now down to 3 hrs sleep. Boy, that went fast. I am pretty sure that i am very addicted in spite taking just 5 mg zopiklone for little more than 3 months. As soon as it runs out of my system I wake up. The doctors want me to start California rocket fuel (comb mirta and venlafaxin). They have given me the weekend to think about it. Right now I don't know what to say except yes!! They all think that the reason for me not to sleep is because I have to much anxiety during the night, but I don't. I feel fine. During the day I can have some anxiety, and I guess it is from withdrawal from zopiclone.

I guess I am a rare bird that have built an addiction this fast and so hard. I know several people that have taken zopiclone for up to eight month and they just quit when they felt better.

My case is more difficult as I, apart from everyones believes, already have an addiction. That means they will put me on this new medicine and nothing will change except that i will continue to sleep more or less nothing and have a new addiction on my hand. Don't know what to do and it feels like my life is hanging on a thread. If I am right i should fight the addiction and taper down or maybe just quit. It might be hard to just quit as I have some sort of strange symptoms in the evening before taking the zopiklone. I get a little anxiety, a little bit of warm/sweaty and there is i chill down my spine. It is so hard to figure out what to do and I guess there will be sleep deprivation as we will wait for the new medicine to kick in. In my book this will never happen since I believe that my brain wont start sleeping on its own intill I'm off the zopiclone. This will be impossible to persuade the doctors about. How do I convince them?

 

Gandersalf, I don't know why you can't take control of your life and just say no to "the doctors". Why would you replace a drug that's stopped working with another one that will probably do the same thing?

 

And CRF is an antidepressant. Did you even read about it? Are you depressed? I thought you wanted to sleep? There's no indication this will help you do that.

 

As for this:

i should fight the addiction and taper down or maybe just quit.

 

IMO, yes. Taper it off. Don't quit abruptly. Plenty of us chucked our Z drugs. We found something else to help us. Something benign. Or not. Some of us even started sleeping on our own.

 

You seem awfully anxious about all this. I understand. But why not give giving it up a try? You can always go back to drugs if things don't work out.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Katz

I personally had nothing but problems when it came to doctors and therapist treating me for my Ambien withdrawal problem. Not a single professional (including a sleep MD) expressed any knowledge of the problem. Treatments for sleep apnea, anti-depressants and sleep restriction therapy were all prescribe, but they all made things worse because they were not treating the actual problem which was simply unintentional Ambien misuse and resulting withdrawal. I ended up figuring it out on my own and did a rapid taper and then threw out all of my pills. By that time and had a sizable collection of Ambien, Lunesta and benzo prescriptions, all written by doctors who just wanted to give me what I asked for and move on to the next patient. 

 

I learned a lot from my experience and from communicating with others on this forum with similar experiences over the past several years. I feel pretty confident when I say that once a z-drug stops working at the normal dosage and sleep starts to become harder and harder to get, it is the z-drug that has become the problem and it is time to get off. I kept fooling myself into thinking that I just had a real bad case of insomnia from an unknown cause that was just too strong for the Ambien to help so I just fed the problem until it grew out of control.

 

You have to decide if you want a pharma solution to a pharma problem. In my experience there really is no silver-bullet or short-cut to the withdrawal process and its associated insomnia. Most doctors will never tell you that they don't have anything in their arsenal to help you and if you demand a pharma solution they will find something to prescribe to you. I really don't see how you can expect your brain to find the equilibrium that it is seeking by throwing more drugs at it. I suspect the hospitals are full of people whose mental illness were actually brought on by benzos and z-drugs and were never properly treated for the problem, or more correctly, simply left alone to allow the withdrawal to run its course.

 

Also, I would suggest that you drop the concept of addiction when thinking about your problem. That term (right or wrong) seems to imply a purposeful misuse of your Zopiklone and assigns some sense of fault. I bet that you had no idea that the medication prescribed to you by a doctor could have caused so much problems. A doctor knowing the FDA prescribing info for the drug and how often you were using it should never have continued to refill the prescription, at least not without closely monitoring you and discussing the potential dangers. That is where the true fault should rest. Your health belongs to you and not your doctor. Don't be afraid to refuse additional meds for sleep. Facing the onset of severe withdrawal insomnia can be terrifying at first, but myself and just about everyone I have kept in touch with regarding the topic have found that it is not a death sentence and is actually much more doable than one could ever think possible.

My native language is not English. What does chucked our z drugs mean.

I can say no to the doctors but what if they are right? They all, including my wife, think that i do this to myself and that its because I am anxious. I am the only one that believe its drugrelated. To add this new drug must be really bad since it is has a well known sideaffekt that make you speedy. Therefor you have to take it in the morning and seriously, why give it to someone that has problems sleeping?

My wife believe it so hard that I think she will leave me unless i ”fight for the family and take any help given. She think I am just hardheaded and she can not take it.

In the beginning of my illness i Had serious panicattacks! They have been handled with some mirta and some time. But I am far from OK and I do not know if I can fight this zopiclone yet. I guess i will fall back into sickness and again with panic attacks after several days without sleep. I feel certain that I am addicted. Its obvious. I am a little anxious in the daytime but not so that I wouldn't sleep at night! I wake Up earlier and earlier and I feel Clear awake in the brain! Question is could I be wrong and the others right? How will I ever know?

 

Thank you for your informative answer.

I understand what you mean about not referring to it as an addiction since I had no Clue. I have become addicted without knowing it.

Obviously I do not understand how it is even possible to stay up night after night? I am glad that you say it is more doable than what anyone would think, ones you are in it. It gives a little hope. Do you get any sleep during tapering? Otherwise how can you first spend a week tapering and then quit with additional problems? I do not understand how that would be possible.

In my case I have been suggested to quit one quarter at a time with some days between....

Thank you for your informative answer.

I understand what you mean about not referring to it as an addiction since I had no Clue. I have become addicted without knowing it.

Obviously I do not understand how it is even possible to stay up night after night? I am glad that you say it is more doable than what anyone would think, ones you are in it. It gives a little hope. Do you get any sleep during tapering? Otherwise how can you first spend a week tapering and then quit with additional problems? I do not understand how that would be possible.

In my case I have been suggested to quit one quarter at a time with some days between....

 

You can choose to do a fast taper or a slow taper, but you should not just suddenly stop taking the drug because that could cause some serious problems. Either way insomnia can be a major problem. Some suggest that the insomnia can be less long lasting if you taper slowly, but I can not say for sure if that is true. I personally just wanted to get the drug out of my system as soon as possible, but I did have pretty long lasting insomnia. It was not pleasant, but I have yet to confirm that any health problems resulted from it.

 

I am not a doctor and I don't know your health history, but panic attacks and insomnia are very common withdrawal symptoms. If these problems started while you were on sleep medication and not prior to taking it then the medication is most likely the cause and the cure would be to stop taking it. If you started taking the sleep medication because of anxiety and panic attacks then you probably need to explore deeper to find a cure. Just know that the continued use of the medication could potentially make things much worse.

 

You ask about how it is possible to stay awake night after night and I will have to say that it is not possible. Fortunately we usually only think that we have not slept at all throughout a night, but in reality we end up drifting in and out of light sleeps that we are often not aware of. My wife would always tell me that I was snoring when I heard nothing and felt for sure that I had been wide awake. That is what ends up sustaining us.

 

By the way, your English is pretty good.

Unfortunately panic attacks were the hole reason for taking zopiclone in the first place. Alltough it was related to a long and hard fight with the IRS. I have now finished that struggle and the attacks have all gone. Instead there is a lower anxiety that stay for hours. More like trouble sit still from time to time.

Do you have any suggestions to make it easier to taper? Lots of water? Stay in bed to rest? Training ( is that even possible during insomnia?)

Thanks for your comment on my English

You say it is not possible to stay awake for days but surely have read about many people here on benzobuddies that have been awake for several days it seemes?

I strongly believe that folks (including myself) who report staying awake for days on end are actually getting the short bursts of light sleep that they are unaware of, just like I mentioned earlier. It is not much and it certainly feels like a night without sleep, but that little bit of sleep seems to be enough to survive on. I don't think that anybody has reported several nights of being awake while staying active and out of bed.

 

I can't really give you much advice on how to taper because I did mine in only 10 days. I would have been very happy to have stopped all at once in one day because I was taking so many sleeping pills and hardly getting any sleep, but I was afraid that would have been too great of a shock to my system. During long tapers, some hold at a certain dose for a while when things get too hard, but I think that you should avoid increasing the dose if possible. Going slowly seems to be easier with benzos that are longer acting so if you find that you are having too much problems going slow with your short acting z-drug you may want to consider speeding up your taper and just getting off the drug. I did have a few panic attacks (which I never had before) during my withdrawal, so you might start having them again, at least until sleep starts to return because lack of sleep does make a person feel a bit unstable. If possible, I would suggest staying in bed all night even if you can't sleep. You will need the rest. Just try to think soothing thoughts and avoid too much expectation of sleep because the disappointment can be very severe and that can work toward keeping you awake.

Hi Ganderstalf,

 

It's very likely the Zopiclone is making your sleep worse, not better. Some people react badly to Z-drugs and benzos, especially if they take them for more than a few days or weeks in a row. If you taper off and remain drug free for a few months your sleep should improve on it's own. What dosage of Zopiclone are you on? I think that one comes in a hard tablet that cannot be tapered, is that correct? If so, you should switch to Diazepam, but you need to figure out what dose. Then you can taper that and still remain functional, hopefully.

Thank you for all the good advise. I am now taking 3/4 of 7,5 mg zopiclone. How would a fast taper look like?

It is true that I am very anxious about this. Not because of the insomnia in it self but the frightening thought of getting sick all over again.

A doctor friend who was giving me advice back when I first discovered the extent of my Ambien problem told me that he got many patients off the drug in as little as 7 days, but I bet that these were patients that did not grow tolerant to Ambien and were not as inclined to get withdrawal symptoms. I decided to do a 10 day taper. I did not know about Ambien withdrawal and only expected insomnia for about a week or so. I don't remember exactly how I did it, but I think that I used a pill-cutter to halve the dose every other night. I was so excited when I took my last dose and threw out all of my pills and never wished that I had more.

 

I have a good buddy who took Ambien every night for 10 or more years and got off the drug with no problems at all. He did not have to increase the dose due to tolerance and was not experiencing any inter-dose withdrawal symptoms so he was one of the lucky ones. I understand your anxiety about getting sick, but that is a very real possibility and in reality, what choice to you have. You can't stay on Zopiclone. Your only real choice is how fast you want to taper. I have no way of knowing if a slower taper would have been easier on me and there is no way of knowing if folks who did a slow taper would have had it any worse if they did a fast taper. Z-drugs are just too unstable in your system. If you get sick you will heal in time and you will be Zopiclone free.

It is a hard pill and not so easy to cut. It can be cut i quarters without to much problem.

I am taking 3/4 and have Done so more or less the whole time, a little over 3 months.

I have three friends that have been taking z for 6-8 months and they all quitted cold turkey and had no problems at all. Therefor I was not awere of any withdrawal symptoms at first and learned about it by my self only by chanse.

That is also the reason why I am considering a cold turkey my self.

Here is what I do not understand:

If you take one pill of 7,5 mg and then you cut to 3/4, most likely you wont sleep that night. Maybe next night? And then cut again....it is hard to understand?

It is a hard pill and not so easy to cut. It can be cut i quarters without to much problem.

I am taking 3/4 and have Done so more or less the whole time, a little over 3 months.

I have three friends that have been taking z for 6-8 months and they all quitted cold turkey and had no problems at all. Therefor I was not awere of any withdrawal symptoms at first and learned about it by my self only by chanse.

That is also the reason why I am considering a cold turkey my self.

Here is what I do not understand:

If you take one pill of 7,5 mg and then you cut to 3/4, most likely you wont sleep that night. Maybe next night? And then cut again....it is hard to understand?

 

Making large cuts to the pill will likely cause your insomnia to be worse, which is why you should taper slowly if possible. If you can't make small enough cuts with this drug, you should get a prescription for valium (diazepam) and taper that drug by 10% every two weeks, going slower or faster if you need to. Since you have already reacted badly to the drug, I don't think you would react well to a cold turkey. Stopping cold turkey can result in a longer and more intense withdrawal syndrome than tapering.

There is a concern about seizures when stopping a benzo or a z-drug cold-turkey after using them too long with associated problems. Tapering (fast or slow) acts like a shock-absorber. The insomnia will probably hit regardless of the tapering speed, but the duration of it might be influenced by the speed of the taper.