Jump to content

Xanax Ashton method


[gr...]

Recommended Posts

Hi,

I'm trying to get off Xanax using the Ashton Method in Massachusetts. My PCP has agreed to help but has no clue except what I've taught him. They have asked me to find myself another doc who specializes in the methodology and for 8 wks now I have had zero luck. I'm half way to transitioning from Xanax 3.75mg ( down from 6mg) to half valium and in 5 wks I will be on all valium that I know I can get off of. The xanax is causing tachycardia and high bp in addition to every withdrawal and side effect listed!!!

 

I started Xanax when getting PRP Prolotherapy for my neck issues. I've been in 3 auto accidents. Have had an ACDF C567 and am avoiding a C1-2 fusion for 2 yrs now. They used the Xanax off label to control muscle spasms but its side effect IS muscle spasms!!

 

If I knew then what I know now, I'd never have take 1 pill of this poison. It is agonizing the pain and the symptoms mimic my neck problems so its caused quite the mess. My life has been destroyed.

 

Does anyone have any doctors in MA that have any knowledge or experience using the Ashton method?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello greekwarrior,

 

Welcome to Benzo Buddies!  I'm sorry about your physical health issues, I am quite familiar with ACDF having had it done myself at C5-7 due to nerve damage at C7.  I wasn't given benzos because of this problem, I was given benzos because no one recognized my original symptoms were from degenerative disc disease.

 

It seems you are well on your way to a sensible crossover to valium. I'm sorry you haven't found a medical provider to help, this is actually common. My doctor was unaware of the Ashton method but was willing to help me with it, we were both learning together.

 

Perhaps some members know of doctors in Massachusetts they could recommend. Many people have done or are going through the process alone, as long as they are give prescriptions for the medication in order to finish the taper.

 

A slow taper can help to minimize withdrawal symptoms. Generally, a reduction of no more than 5-10% every 10-14 days is suggested. I'll give you a link to the General Taper Plans for additional information.

 

You seem quite familiar with the Ashton method. The Ashton Manual was written by Dr. Heather Ashton and provides a lot of good information about tapering and the withdrawal process in general. I'll provide a link to the manual for easy access.

 

I'm glad you've joined the forum. You'll get a lot of support and you journey to be benzo free.  Many of us look back in hindsight and wish we'd never taken a benzo.  You are amongst people who understand the process and can offer information as well as their experience. Please do ask questions, we're here to help.

 

General Taper Plans   

 

The Ashton Manual

 

pianogirl  :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Greek Warrior

I'm glad you were able to get that link for Dr 's, really hope one can help you..

If I have figured your numbers correctly

6 mgs X = 120 mgs V

Now

3.75 x = 75 mgs V

 

You can read in the Ashton Manual, you may not need to cross all that over, you are such a high dose.

Just my opinion , you may want to taper some of the xanax before continuing with the crossover.  Valium is complete different than xanax and you may find yourself in trouble with sedation.  Xanax is for anxiety, Valium is really more of a muscle relaxer, sleep aid.  Your body and central nervous system needs time to adjust to the Valium.  By reducing the xanax, you can back into a

lower amount of Valium.  There is great information on bb about high doses.  I hope you find a benzo wise Dr, most of us don't have one, we have Dr 's that prescribe and get our help here.  Most of what you talk about is definitely withdrawal symptoms, but if you ever become afraid, go to the Dr just to make sure.  Peace of mind means a lot.  Good luck, hope you find that Dr.    Mary

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you all so so so very much for your support, links to docs and encourgement!!! This is a very scary process and yes, I agree that the high dose of valium is going to need to be adjusted. This week is my 1/2 and 1/2 week and I feel the sedation. It is actually good now since I haven't slept in years!!! But...next week when I increase it will be different.

I am learning so much.

 

I believe I have to feel this horror so someday I may help others. If I didn't feel it, walk it, how could I understand and help? You have all walked it. I feel like you are Angels sent to me from above to help me live again!!!!

Peace and love

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you all so so so very much for your support, links to docs and encourgement!!! This is a very scary process and yes, I agree that the high dose of valium is going to need to be adjusted. This week is my 1/2 and 1/2 week and I feel the sedation. It is actually good now since I haven't slept in years!!! But...next week when I increase it will be different.

I am learning so much.

 

I believe I have to feel this horror so someday I may help others. If I didn't feel it, walk it, how could I understand and help? You have all walked it. I feel like you are Angels sent to me from above to help me live again!!!!

Peace and love

 

We are here to give you as much support as we can!  Good luck, Mary 🍀

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hello Greekwarrior,

I’m responding to your posting about neck issues, muscle spasms , and Xanax.

I’ve been on Xanax for years bc a neurologist told me it was better than brain surgery. After I had C5-7 fusion, I developed greater instability in upper cervical, and cranial cervical instability. I , too, have been doing anything I can to avoid more fusions. My symptoms have gotten worse and now I do question whether the spasms I thought I was treating with Xanax are actually caused by it. This seems at least partly true as my interdose symptoms= the twisting, muscle spasms throughout my body.

You’re the only person I have heard who has similar symptoms and was using Xanax to treat. Also have had much Prolo.

Can’t help with doctors in MA. Good luck with finding someone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Greekwarrior,

I’m responding to your posting about neck issues, muscle spasms , and Xanax.

I’ve been on Xanax for years bc a neurologist told me it was better than brain surgery. After I had C5-7 fusion, I developed greater instability in upper cervical, and cranial cervical instability. I , too, have been doing anything I can to avoid more fusions. My symptoms have gotten worse and now I do question whether the spasms I thought I was treating with Xanax are actually caused by it. This seems at least partly true as my interdose symptoms= the twisting, muscle spasms throughout my body.

You’re the only person I have heard who has similar symptoms and was using Xanax to treat. Also have had much Prolo.

Can’t help with doctors in MA. Good luck with finding someone.

 

OMG this is EXACTLY MY story!! I have had 22 rounds of PRP and Prolo and neural from Dr Hauser and Dr Magaziner in NJ and kept getting worse so the test results showed my fusion had failed. So they then put me on all sort of opiates and muscle relaxers to hold me over until the neurosurgeon could do emergency surgery. Long story between then and now but the short of it is:

The side effects from the bacholphen were causing muscle rigidigity which made my fingers paralyzed..they work again!!! The Xanax side effects and withdrawral symptoms mimic cranial cervical instability.

So....I am now off 2 opiates, 3 muscle relaxers, 1 heart med and almost off xanax now to taper valium in a few weeks.

These drugs almost killed me!! and its going to take weeks to taper safely.

 

I can't believe you are just like me!! Pleasure to meet you!! We are not alone now!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Greekwarrior

 

Here is a link that lists benzo-wise doctors by state, looks like there is a couple from yours. Hope this helps! http://www.benzosupport.org/benzo_wise_doctors.htm

 

Tom

 

FYI - The 2 docs in MA - 1 at harvard is NOT taking any new patients. The other doc has moved to Ohio. That office was so nice they are trying to see if she transferred her Ashton patients to other MA docs who my help me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

 

Good to meet you as well! I'm so tired of being looked at like I'm exaggerating or being dramatic about these crazy symptoms.

I definitely hope that you're right that the symptoms of CCI are being mimicked by the Xanax! Xanax I can do something about- but I'd like to avoid having the rest of my neck fused. 

I plan to start my transition to Valium within the next week, I'm getting myself prepared.I'm hoping my doc is up to the job, but he is the one who pointed out the problem with being on Xanax.

I had a friend visiting for a week so I've been away from here. How are you doing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

I can honestly say I am doing better - my tachycardia and high bp have stopped - no more waking up feeling like I'm having a heart attack. The other symptoms still suck but I think I am improving. Put it this way, the thought of ended it all if this is permanantly has left me....I just know I'm going to get better...in time...not my time unfortunately!!

 

I am in week 9 of my transition to valium and have tapered a tiny bit of the valium as well as a ton of the xanax. I have gone from 3.75mg Xanax - 0.9375 and fro 45 mg valium down 2.5mg/day to 42.5. So I've gone from 6mg of Xanax in March to less than 1mg in 5 months...no wonder I'm having withdrawral symptoms!!!

 

I've also screwed up my pills many times last week. I set my phone alarm and the pills make me dumb so I forget or think I took them and then 5 hrs later when my heads going to explode realize I didn't take them. It's really hard but I AM doing it.

 

I can tell you this is harder than getting of any opiate or muscle relaxer or anti depressant. It is like chinese water torture....slow and painful with no end in sight...but now....I think I'm seeing light....my heart is not scaring me anymore that I'm going to have a heart attack but I am still afraid of seizures.

 

BTW I cannot find a doc in MA to support the Ashton method..my pcp is doing it because I have an ombudsman and my insurance companies supervisor working with my PCP's office to help me...legally they can't dump me which is what they've tried to do...they've sent my to pain management - they don't want anything to do with me. Then they sent my to a  psych last week who said you have no psych issues they used xanax for off label - the pcp gave it to you he HAS to take you off it. My insurance company also told me that they offer courses for doctors to LEARN how to taper people off benzos safely...they can't just say what mine did, sorry I dont know how go find someone who does.

 

If I can do this, so can you!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

I can honestly say I am doing better - my tachycardia and high bp have stopped - no more waking up feeling like I'm having a heart attack. The other symptoms still suck but I think I am improving. Put it this way, the thought of ended it all if this is permanantly has left me....I just know I'm going to get better...in time...not my time unfortunately!!

 

I am in week 9 of my transition to valium and have tapered a tiny bit of the valium as well as a ton of the xanax. I have gone from 3.75mg Xanax - 0.9375 and fro 45 mg valium down 2.5mg/day to 42.5. So I've gone from 6mg of Xanax in March to less than 1mg in 5 months...no wonder I'm having withdrawral symptoms!!!

 

I've also screwed up my pills many times last week. I set my phone alarm and the pills make me dumb so I forget or think I took them and then 5 hrs later when my heads going to explode realize I didn't take them. It's really hard but I AM doing it.

 

I can tell you this is harder than getting of any opiate or muscle relaxer or anti depressant. It is like chinese water torture....slow and painful with no end in sight...but now....I think I'm seeing light....my heart is not scaring me anymore that I'm going to have a heart attack but I am still afraid of seizures.

 

BTW I cannot find a doc in MA to support the Ashton method..my pcp is doing it because I have an ombudsman and my insurance companies supervisor working with my PCP's office to help me...legally they can't dump me which is what they've tried to do...they've sent my to pain management - they don't want anything to do with me. Then they sent my to a  psych last week who said you have no psych issues they used xanax for off label - the pcp gave it to you he HAS to take you off it. My insurance company also told me that they offer courses for doctors to LEARN how to taper people off benzos safely...they can't just say what mine did, sorry I dont know how go find someone who does.

 

If I can do this, so can you!!

 

I'm so glad you are feeling some better, that is great.  Very sorry about the Dr issue though.  Hand in there, you know we are here, Mary 💚💚💚💚

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Hi,

Thank you for asking! It's been absolute hell! Finally found a doc to support my slow taper but stopping the taper hasn't stopped the wd symptoms!! My daughter is getting married saturday and we have to drive from boston to ny and I HAVE to be able to attend somehow someway.

I couldn't get out of bed earlier in the week, improving but have updosed to try to help stabaize me for the wedding then i can taper again.

 

I had removed 2.5 valium as I thought it made my slur so I added back in 1/2 of that at 7am. Then the for the 1st 2 days I added the other half and it made me sleep all day long so yesterday I skipped that dose and had my 1st headache free day ever!!!

 

Now today I woke up with a slight headache and it increased by 1 so I took a 1/2 of the 1/2 to see if it would take the headache away and it has within half and hour. It's there but barely. So....if I start to get my appetite back again today I'll know its interdose withdrawral. I keep loosing weight as the sx are nausau and vomiting and no appetite. I'm only 101 now from 132.

 

I have to get thru this weekend somehow.

 

 

Any other suggestions?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello,

I just happened to read this today. I hope things got better for you as the week went on.

I can tell you that for me, once I got all the way off Xanax and onto Valium a lot of the physical symptoms were drastically reduced.

I was dopey and tired but it beat feeling like pretzel woman every morning when I woke up. Things got pretty decent in the 3 weeks I stabilized at the dose that seemed to work best- found by trial and error.

 

I know a daughter’s wedding is a very big day, I’ll be thinking of you and hope it goes well. Or OK. My scale of expectations is skewed I’m afraid. But sometimes the mind and body rise to the occasion and I’ll hope this may be one of those for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Good to meet you as well! I'm so tired of being looked at like I'm exaggerating or being dramatic about these crazy symptoms.

I definitely hope that you're right that the symptoms of CCI are being mimicked by the Xanax! Xanax I can do something about- but I'd like to avoid having the rest of my neck fused. 

I plan to start my transition to Valium within the next week, I'm getting myself prepared.I'm hoping my doc is up to the job, but he is the one who pointed out the problem with being on Xanax.

I had a friend visiting for a week so I've been away from here. How are you doing?

 

I've held my c1-2 adjustment for 18 weeks which is the LONGEST time ever for me so I the evidence is leading to my severe instability will be the side effect of the xanax and who knows maybe the flexeril I was on before too.

 

I found a new doc - chief of psych who told me my taper was way way way too fast and to stop until I stabilize - at least 4 wks.

 

I still have terrible symptoms up and down that mimic CCI exactly but many are gone and many improving especially my HR and BP.

 

Until this experiment is over - ie - I'm off all benzo's I won't know. But the longer my neck holds its adjustment tells us clearly that the drugs had an effect since that is the only change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My approach to getting off Xanax was first I switched to the XR, which was also a dose reduction. After a few months to recover from that, I crossed over to Valium. The most amazing thing is once I was on the Valium with no X, about 75% of my severe “mysterious” muscle spasms stopped. It confirmed for me that I had been experiencing interdose withdrawal for YEARS on Xanax.

I am tapering the Valium now and I find I need to go fairly slowly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Greekwarrior,

How’s the neck doing with all of this change ?

 

Unbelieveably, my neck has held its adjustment for over 18 wks - the longest I've ever held before is 16 wks so the data is leading to the conclusion that the drugs that were used - muscle relaxers - did the opposite to me- caused muscle rigidity and spasms -in addition to the tach and bp - all listed at the very bottom of the side effects. The bachlophen paralyzed my arms!!!! yup - thats listed as a side effect tooon webmd but who read to the bottom?

 

 

When i'm completely off benzo's then we will have the answer.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

Hi, I also have severe muscle spasms that mimic CCI - and CCI - so understand how tough this is to figure out. Prolo made me worse. I did have issues pre benzo, but nothing close to what I have now. I only dose once per day and think I am experiencing interdose and tolerance wd.

 

How are you all doing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Sunflower,

I’m continuing to have CCI issues and general muscle tightness throughout my legs and back. It’s not great. I’ve paused my taper due to a combination of emotional family events plus the pandemic.  I definitely have interdose wd which I have had for years. I think I was in tolerance for about 5 years before starting to change medication. The combination of these things is why I think I can only decrease slowly. I’ll get there eventually, I hope.

I too had unsuccessful prolo.

I walk a mile or more every day, normally do pool exercise which isn’t happening now. If only my neck didn’t go out at night, life would be much easier.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Nigella,

 

How is your taper going? I hope your neck is doing ok. I have t signed on for a bit as my son has health issues. My neck and muscle spasms have been a major hindrance in my wd attempts. I am wondering if K is helping or hurting as I only dose once per day. It sounded like you experienced some relief with Valium crossover?

 

Best,

Sun

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello, thank you for checking in on me. My neck is still iffy, kind of as I described in April.  Some days are OK, others are very hard.  It’s pretty hard to tell what causes symptoms, but I’m conscious of being gentle with my body because of the neck. I’m back to some pool exercise at an outdoor pool which is helpful.

I’m decreasing at a snails pace but still moving down.  I try not to think about how long it will take at this rate!

 

I wish I could get some advice on this process, but I haven’t been on here much. I do wonder if getting off more quickly would get some of these symptoms to end, but nobody knows.

As for the Valium, I did have some relief in the beginning, but I think it was due to over-estimating the equivalent amount compared to the Xanax dose. I can’t remember being in pain for two hours daily before a Xanax dose, but that’s pretty standard for me every evening now. I sometimes wonder if I could have decreased directly off that faster.

My doctor says not to hurry and just keep moving down, but I don’t think he has any idea how hard this is. I take a high dose of CBD oil 3-4 times a day to function. Sorry I can’t be more encouraging, today. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello, thank you for checking in on me. My neck is still iffy, kind of as I described in April.  Some days are OK, others are very hard.  It’s pretty hard to tell what causes symptoms, but I’m conscious of being gentle with my body because of the neck. I’m back to some pool exercise at an outdoor pool which is helpful.

I’m decreasing at a snails pace but still moving down.  I try not to think about how long it will take at this rate!

 

I wish I could get some advice on this process, but I haven’t been on here much. I do wonder if getting off more quickly would get some of these symptoms to end, but nobody knows.

As for the Valium, I did have some relief in the beginning, but I think it was due to over-estimating the equivalent amount compared to the Xanax dose. I can’t remember being in pain for two hours daily before a Xanax dose, but that’s pretty standard for me every evening now. I sometimes wonder if I could have decreased directly off that faster.

My doctor says not to hurry and just keep moving down, but I don’t think he has any idea how hard this is. I take a high dose of CBD oil 3-4 times a day to function. Sorry I can’t be more encouraging, today.

 

Nig, Xanax and Valium are very different benzo's.  Valium actually has 3 different metabolites, it has one for sleep, anxiety, and muscle relaxers.  I have had quite a lot of pain with it too.  Xanax for anxiety and worked great for that but has such a short half life, it can be difficult to withdraw from.  I would, imo, agree with your Dr, just keep tapering, go slow and listen to your body.  Hold for a time if you need too.  Good luck, let us know how you are doing.  Mary 🙋🏼🙋🏼

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, Mary, it’s nice to know I’m not speaking into the void here. I appreciate the encouragement. I have done some holding, about 3 months this spring, till I realized the virus situation was going to bf long term and I was getting anxious about NOT reducing my dose. Right now I’m taking 4 mg in the am and 5 mg + .043 g as of today in pm dose. Focusing on getting evening dose down to even 5 for now!

How are you finding g th he liquid Valium ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, Mary, it’s nice to know I’m not speaking into the void here. I appreciate the encouragement. I have done some holding, about 3 months this spring, till I realized the virus situation was going to bf long term and I was getting anxious about NOT reducing my dose. Right now I’m taking 4 mg in the am and 5 mg + .043 g as of today in pm dose. Focusing on getting evening dose down to even 5 for now!

How are you finding g th he liquid Valium ?

 

Actually, it tastes horrible, lol.  But it's so easy to use, I am pretty pleases with it.  Our doses are close to the same.  My am dose is 3.7 and 4.2  ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...