Zero nights with no end. Too many meds and CTs and kindling. Feeling hopeless.

I have done so many fast tapers and cold turkeys off many meds over the years. Haven't seen any buddies with such a horrendous history. Alcohol maybe caused kindling too. Then desperate need for sleep lead me back to Remeron and then a handful of doses of 2mg of Ativan. More kindling. Angry at myself and feel I have really screwed myself.  Is recovery even possible now?  What can I do at this point?  10 days now since the Ativan.  Maybe had microsleep one night.  Feel buzzing and wide awake.  The head pain on top is this unbearable. 

Yes UN, recovery is still possible. Improvement will happen at its own maddening pace. The more extreme insomniacs tend not to post as much. I know I pulled back from BB for a long while because my insomnia (in severity and duration) was quite different from other's on here. I felt like a broken alien and I was scaring people sometimes. But the stories need to be shared so that people in the thick of it don't feel so alone. Sometimes these drugs do crazy things to the brain and when compounded by distressing life events it creates an extreme reaction like you've been having. It can be such small comfort to hear that you have to keep putting one foot in front of the other and take it one minute/hour/day at a time. But that, and taking the best care of ourselves (nutrition, exercise, social interaction, distraction, counseling, etc.) that we can, while keeping ourselves alive for better days, is the path through the flames. I know what it's like to believe you're different, that your damage is permanent. Your mind can come up with all sorts of "evidence" that it's true. None of us know what life will be like after recovery. Not everyone gets magical, restorative, long sleep back but I've yet to meet anyone on BB or in real life, who hasn't gotten much better with time. And I'm amazed by the number who end up with great sleep despite having a horrific time. So there's every reason to have hope.

I know I pulled back from BB for a long while because my insomnia (in severity and duration) was quite different from other's on here. I felt like a broken alien and I was scaring people sometimes. But the stories need to be shared so that people in the thick of it don't feel so alone. Sometimes these drugs do crazy things to the brain and when compounded by distressing life events it creates an extreme reaction like you've been having. [...]

 

I know what it's like to believe you're different, that your damage is permanent.

 

MTfan, thanks for posting this. This is how I feel, 'a broken alien'. My main issue is not insomnia (although that is a big struggle, too) - but I, too, pulled away from here for fear of scaring others. It's so hard, because we want to share hope and sound positive. But, like you, I've felt that my scariest symptoms make me too different, and that I need to hide. It even scares me to write about them - like it would make them more real... I've felt huge shame and self-loathing around this - which ramps up the terror.

 

So, thank you. This helps me to feel I'm not entirely alone, after all.

Wildflower,

 

You're not alone. I suspect that even your most bizarre symptoms are shared by some others. Try reaching out some to people who you think might have some things in common. People are often more open in PMs. Benzo wd is a crazy experience!

 

A fellow "alien"

Many thanks, MTfan, for your time and kindness in replying to my post. I appreciate it very much.

 

Alien Wildflower

MTFan gave you great supportive advice, uncomfortablynumb1 

 

And you're lucky (I hope). The times I had the worst symptoms EVER before ever trying benzos (my journey started with a panic disorder in high school) was that a 1 after all the rushed heart race, chest tightness, tingling, fear and phobias, terrifying nightmares and insomnia, IT WAS ALL REPLACED by the lovely couple of derealization and depersonalization. THE WORST symptoms ever. Nothing felt real, I felt as though I was a fish in a jar observing the world around me through muddied water with dread. Everything seemed distant, unreal, unfocused. And the good news: IT WILL GO AMAY  Trust me.

 

After being subjected to anxiety and the physical symptoms of an anxiety/panic disorder or benzo withdrawal symptoms (which are more or less the same), the brain decides to switch itself off to protect itself. It says "No more. I can't do this like that." because of the adrenaline and cortisol and stress pounding it chronically for months or years. So, actually derealization/depersonalisation are symptoms of a chain of anxiety symptoms that put the brakes on the adrenaline rush. But you can hardly say it feels better than the other combo, can you? Don't worry, it's going to be temporary and you will recover.

 

That's when I began taking Zopiclone and BOOM, what a miracle drug it was. The depression and dereleazitaion were vanquished. OH GOD, I couldn't believe it. Up to that point, I had not received any support from either parents or friends, they said it's all a big "oh, fuck, are you gonna talk about derelazation again". They hardly knew what a terrifying experience is. That's why I got addicted to benzos in the first place. While I was tapering on diazepam though, it  had already gone (which means the brain had had its necessary rest to be able to function without these barriers/defence mechanisms) and my first tapering went more or less smoothly until the end. All sympoms were gone 6 months after that

 

Tips for your derealization/depersonalization: Put it in the background of your thoughts. This is really tricky with this symptom because it's the symptom itself that's trying to put you, the whole world in the background so it seems distant (but with that dreadful feeling of not belonging to anything). Just learn to live with it while doing everything else as you normally would. Trust me, others won't understand you (unless they've experienced it), but that means YOU are actually doing things right, otherwise they would've called you crazy.

 

Ignore it, don't fight it, accept it and work, socialise, play. A healthy human being should be able to do 3 things 1) love themselves and others 2) play and 3 ) work

 

Hope it helps, keep us posted!

Hey MT,

This week there were tiny flickers of hope with sleep. I am not taking any drug or supplement. I got 1-2hrs every other night. Still not a liveable amount but it is a little improvement.

 

The complete emotional numbness and blank mind are killing me.  The derealization has also not changed. Life is like a non existence now.  It is like a frontal lobe lobotomy. I wonder if that is why my brain feels crushed and on fire.  It is horrific. Did you experience anything like this? Or do you know anyone who has? The only one I know of who seems to have had a similar experience is Benzo Warrior on YouTube and she is still suffering 3yrs+ later.

 

I am trying to take your advice.  Keeping active and following healthy diet.  But the staying social part and getting counseling is tough when you can't feel or think. 

UN,

 

Blow on those tiny flickers of hope so they can spark up. That's an excellent sign that you got those bits of sleep. That's how mine restarted-just little tiny runs and then they would recede as if they were a shock to my brain. That every other night pattern is extremely common for those of us with the more severe insomnia.

 

As for the emotional numbness and derealization, I found those were just always present with severe sleep deprivation. Your brain is doing the absolute best it can but think of it like this. When the power goes out and you're using a generator, you can only keep a few things in your house running, sometimes only a refrigerator because there's not enough power. Your brain has to pick what it's going to keep up and running. It allows you to move your arms and legs, attend to basic functions like feeding and bathing. But emotion and thought are VERY brain intensive and there's not the power to make all of the connections when your sleep is like this. As your sleep returns your brain will be able to bring more and more systems online. That's what happened for me and what many others describe.

Yes UN, recovery is still possible. Improvement will happen at its own maddening pace. The more extreme insomniacs tend not to post as much. I know I pulled back from BB for a long while because my insomnia (in severity and duration) was quite different from other's on here. I felt like a broken alien and I was scaring people sometimes. But the stories need to be shared so that people in the thick of it don't feel so alone. Sometimes these drugs do crazy things to the brain and when compounded by distressing life events it creates an extreme reaction like you've been having. It can be such small comfort to hear that you have to keep putting one foot in front of the other and take it one minute/hour/day at a time. But that, and taking the best care of ourselves (nutrition, exercise, social interaction, distraction, counseling, etc.) that we can, while keeping ourselves alive for better days, is the path through the flames. I know what it's like to believe you're different, that your damage is permanent. Your mind can come up with all sorts of "evidence" that it's true. None of us know what life will be like after recovery. Not everyone gets magical, restorative, long sleep back but I've yet to meet anyone on BB or in real life, who hasn't gotten much better with time. And I'm amazed by the number who end up with great sleep despite having a horrific time. So there's every reason to have hope.

 

MT Fan, I see you mention your insomnia was different in hours and duration. I'm sleeping one hour a night lately. Not getting better. How did you cope? Did you keep working? I see enveryone's going through hell here but most of them get a 4, 5, 6 or 7 night sleep!! Of all the meds you took, would you recommend any for sleep while I taper valium? I can't live like this for long.

I hope you are right, MT.  It seems like I am going 1 to 3 days lately with no sleep, followed by 1-2hrs of sleep. Might have had one 3hrs. It is always super-light inbetween awake and asleep. I will feel a bit of relief if I make it to 3-4hrs every other night sometime in the near future. 

 

If emotions and interest in things come back if I start getting more rest it would really save me.  Would really also like to know if the head pains will get better if I slept.  Last time it improved a lot within 6 months. 

 

I have not have had a day without derealization in maybe 8 months now.  Supermarkets and department stores are the worst. They really amp up the dissociation. 

Yes UN, recovery is still possible. Improvement will happen at its own maddening pace. The more extreme insomniacs tend not to post as much. I know I pulled back from BB for a long while because my insomnia (in severity and duration) was quite different from other's on here. I felt like a broken alien and I was scaring people sometimes. But the stories need to be shared so that people in the thick of it don't feel so alone. Sometimes these drugs do crazy things to the brain and when compounded by distressing life events it creates an extreme reaction like you've been having. It can be such small comfort to hear that you have to keep putting one foot in front of the other and take it one minute/hour/day at a time. But that, and taking the best care of ourselves (nutrition, exercise, social interaction, distraction, counseling, etc.) that we can, while keeping ourselves alive for better days, is the path through the flames. I know what it's like to believe you're different, that your damage is permanent. Your mind can come up with all sorts of "evidence" that it's true. None of us know what life will be like after recovery. Not everyone gets magical, restorative, long sleep back but I've yet to meet anyone on BB or in real life, who hasn't gotten much better with time. And I'm amazed by the number who end up with great sleep despite having a horrific time. So there's every reason to have hope.

 

MT Fan, I see you mention your insomnia was different in hours and duration. I'm sleeping one hour a night lately. Not getting better. How did you cope? Did you keep working? I see enveryone's going through hell here but most of them get a 4, 5, 6 or 7 night sleep!! Of all the meds you took, would you recommend any for sleep while I taper valium? I can't live like this for long.

 

When you're in the thick of this, it's perfectly natural for your mind to spin out thoughts like, "I can't live like this for long." It's very important that you recognize these as thoughts, not facts. In reality, you CAN live with this as long as you need to. It may suck, be extremely uncomfortable, and limit some of what you can do, but life will go on. You'll walk through the fires and get to the other side. It passes and sleep will gradually return.

 

I kept working but I only work two days a week. I just gritted my teeth, cried a lot, and pushed through it. While there are medications that may help, every single one of them will require that you go through another withdrawal period. Honestly, I think the shortest, easiest path (and those are relative terms since NONE of this is easy) is to avoid other drugs.

 

Instead, exercise to the best of your ability (Even for just a few minutes at a time. I learned to walk and lift weights even after zero sleep), learn relaxation skills and try to meditate in some form daily, have night time routines to wind down, practice distraction, eat as healthy as you can and de-emphasize the importance of sleep. Yes, it's wonderful stuff, but you can still live with very limited amounts of sleep while your brain recovers from dependence on benzos. Your brain/body is doing the absolute best it can. Give yourself some time. You'll get there.

Yes UN, recovery is still possible. Improvement will happen at its own maddening pace. The more extreme insomniacs tend not to post as much. I know I pulled back from BB for a long while because my insomnia (in severity and duration) was quite different from other's on here. I felt like a broken alien and I was scaring people sometimes. But the stories need to be shared so that people in the thick of it don't feel so alone. Sometimes these drugs do crazy things to the brain and when compounded by distressing life events it creates an extreme reaction like you've been having. It can be such small comfort to hear that you have to keep putting one foot in front of the other and take it one minute/hour/day at a time. But that, and taking the best care of ourselves (nutrition, exercise, social interaction, distraction, counseling, etc.) that we can, while keeping ourselves alive for better days, is the path through the flames. I know what it's like to believe you're different, that your damage is permanent. Your mind can come up with all sorts of "evidence" that it's true. None of us know what life will be like after recovery. Not everyone gets magical, restorative, long sleep back but I've yet to meet anyone on BB or in real life, who hasn't gotten much better with time. And I'm amazed by the number who end up with great sleep despite having a horrific time. So there's every reason to have hope.

 

MT Fan, I see you mention your insomnia was different in hours and duration. I'm sleeping one hour a night lately. Not getting better. How did you cope? Did you keep working? I see enveryone's going through hell here but most of them get a 4, 5, 6 or 7 night sleep!! Of all the meds you took, would you recommend any for sleep while I taper valium? I can't live like this for long.

 

When you're in the thick of this, it's perfectly natural for your mind to spin out thoughts like, "I can't live like this for long." It's very important that you recognize these as thoughts, not facts. In reality, you CAN live with this as long as you need to. It may suck, be extremely uncomfortable, and limit some of what you can do, but life will go on. You'll walk through the fires and get to the other side. It passes and sleep will gradually return.

 

I kept working but I only work two days a week. I just gritted my teeth, cried a lot, and pushed through it. While there are medications that may help, every single one of them will require that you go through another withdrawal period. Honestly, I think the shortest, easiest path (and those are relative terms since NONE of this is easy) is to avoid other drugs.

 

Instead, exercise to the best of your ability (Even for just a few minutes at a time. I learned to walk and lift weights even after zero sleep), learn relaxation skills and try to meditate in some form daily, have night time routines to wind down, practice distraction, eat as healthy as you can and de-emphasize the importance of sleep. Yes, it's wonderful stuff, but you can still live with very limited amounts of sleep while your brain recovers from dependence on benzos. Your brain/body is doing the absolute best it can. Give yourself some time. You'll get there.

 

Thank you MT Fan. Unfortunately I had to updose as I was completely out of my mind in acute withdrawal and I won't risk being put in a ward and losing custody of my child. Thanks for the advice though.

I hope you are right, MT.  It seems like I am going 1 to 3 days lately with no sleep, followed by 1-2hrs of sleep. Might have had one 3hrs. It is always super-light inbetween awake and asleep. I will feel a bit of relief if I make it to 3-4hrs every other night sometime in the near future. 

 

If emotions and interest in things come back if I start getting more rest it would really save me.  Would really also like to know if the head pains will get better if I slept.  Last time it improved a lot within 6 months. 

 

I have not have had a day without derealization in maybe 8 months now.  Supermarkets and department stores are the worst. They really amp up the dissociation.

 

Undomfortably you're off meds since October 2017 and you still have all these symptoms?

I was off all meds June 2017.  I was experiencing severe insomnia, dp/dr, head pressure, emotional numbness/anhedonia, blank mind, anxiety etc. from January 2017 to October 2017.

 

I was mostly well from November 2017 to October 2018 even though the head pressure never went away fully.

 

In 2018, I suffered major stresses including loss of my father, having to move away from my home city of 37yrs, stopping work.  I drank alcohol a handful or two of times during the year.  As of October 2018, I have been suffering all the same symptoms as before.  They seem worse this time and not budging. I really broke down and in April I dabbled with Remeron for 4 wks and diff doses with no help. Then in May I was stupid and took 10 doses of 2mg of Ativan to sleep over a 4wk period and stopped abruptly because it was making head pain, anxiety and a bunch of stuff worse.  Taking it was a dead end. My situation feels similar to Benzo Warrior on YouTube.  I am scared because she hasn't recovered yet in over 3 years. 

 

I am currently in Hell going on 5 weeks no meds.  I can only hope that since I recovered before that I can again.  Another part of me is telling me I screwed up too many times with so many meds and cold turkeys and drinking alcohol.  It is telling me I am damaged and will get better and find my true personality and happy self again. 

I was off all meds June 2017.  I was experiencing severe insomnia, dp/dr, head pressure, emotional numbness/anhedonia, blank mind, anxiety etc. from January 2017 to October 2017.

 

I was mostly well from November 2017 to October 2018 even though the head pressure never went away fully.

 

In 2018, I suffered major stresses including loss of my father, having to move away from my home city of 37yrs, stopping work.  I drank alcohol a handful or two of times during the year.  As of October 2018, I have been suffering all the same symptoms as before.  They seem worse this time and not budging. I really broke down and in April I dabbled with Remeron for 4 wks and diff doses with no help. Then in May I was stupid and took 10 doses of 2mg of Ativan to sleep over a 4wk period and stopped abruptly because it was making head pain, anxiety and a bunch of stuff worse.  Taking it was a dead end. My situation feels similar to Benzo Warrior on YouTube.  I am scared because she hasn't recovered yet in over 3 years. 

 

I am currently in Hell going on 5 weeks no meds.  I can only hope that since I recovered before that I can again.  Another part of me is telling me I screwed up too many times with so many meds and cold turkeys and drinking alcohol.  It is telling me I am damaged and will get better and find my true personality and happy self again.

 

Don't beat yourself up. Nobody get like this because of alcohol. It  must be a protracted wd from all the cold turkeys? How many drugs did you ct at once? You'll get well. I love benzo warrior, I follow her, she's an angel. I think she's doing better now isn't she?

uncomfortablynumb1

 

Please, don't panic! Your tale is that of a survivor with lots of misfortune, but no matter how you feel right now, going through hell. it will PASS. That may not be helpful now because you probably have a long road ahead of you, but you should NEVER discourage. You're not a loser. Don't label yourself with anything negative. All your failures whether coincidental or not will not be in vain.

 

Stay strong. We're here for emotional support 24/7.

 

As much as your inner voices might tell you "I'm in a dire situation. It's too late", don't listen to them. Or you could try (IF YOU CAN, sometimes people's resources are so depleted, they just don't have the stamina; I've been there, and I've survived) soaking in these voices as though they're just that - voices - not YOU, and you have the power to just disregard them, ignore them.

 

Have faith! 

Uncomfortably, benzomutant is right. Hey have you seen benzo warrior's last video?? She seems to be doing much better.

Valiumnomore - I don't know it is protracted withdrawal because I was doing well from November 2017 to October 2018.  I am guessing the stresses and alcohol brought symptoms back.

 

I have a long history of rapid tapers and cold turkeys. Many of the ADs I tried in the past were like 4 or 6 wk trials and stopped when they were ineffective. I tried many in the past  - around a dozen cold turkeys from trials.  Effexor was the drug that worked for me and I was on for almost a decade.  I stopped that over a period of weeks.  Remeron was once effective and I went on that for a year to cover up my horrific Effexor withdrawals. I tapered off that over a couple months.  After the Remeron withdrawal I was going from one ineffective drug to the next to help with the withdrawal insomnia. Cold turkeyed each of them after a few weeks use. 

 

I also cold turkeyed from 2mg of Ativan twice now. First time was from 4 months occasional use and this recent one was after 10 uses over 4wks. 

 

It is really messy. I haven't seen anyone on here who has consumed as many diff drugs and as many cold turkeys.  It feels like if I recover I be the poster child of surviving psych med disaster.

 

Benzo Warrior is not nearly as bad as she was early on.  But she is far from well as she is stuck with blank mind and emotional numbness and has a hard time socializing.  I believe she is still on gabapentin and clonidine.  Getting off those are likely gonna cause problems.  Maybe those 2 things are giving her sleep. 

 

 

Valiumnomore - I don't know it is protracted withdrawal because I was doing well from November 2017 to October 2018.  I am guessing the stresses and alcohol brought symptoms back.

 

I have a long history of rapid tapers and cold turkeys. Many of the ADs I tried in the past were like 4 or 6 wk trials and stopped when they were ineffective. I tried many in the past so a dozen cold turkeys there.  Effexor was the drug that worked for me and I was on for almost a decade.  I stopped that over a period of weeks.  Remeron was once effective and I went on that to cover up my horrific Effexor withdrawals. Was on Remeron a few years ago for a year.  I tapered off that over a couple months.  After the Remeron withdrawal I was going from one ineffective drug to the next to help with the withdrawal insomnia of that.  I had lots of trials with meds I cold turkeyed after a few weeks use. 

I cold turkeyed from 2mg of Ativan twice now. First time was from 4 months occasional use and this recent one was after 10 uses over 4wks. 

 

It is really messy. I haven't seen anyone on here who has consumed as many diff drugs and as many cold turkeys.  It feels like if I recover I be the poster child of surviving psych med disaster.

 

Benzo Warrior is not nearly as bad as she was early on.  But she is far from well as she is stuck with blank mind and emotional numbness and has a hard time socializing.  I believe she is still on gabapentin and clonidine.  Getting off those are likely gonna cause problems.  Maybe those 2 things are giving her sleep.

 

Well uncomfortably considering all the drugs they put you on and you have come off of, you sound like your brain is functioning perfectly well. I'm sure you're living in inner torture, fear DP, DR and all the wd symptoms, but your brain is ok because you make a lot of sense. You are very strong, otherwise you wouldn't have survived all those drugs. You will heal from this. Blaming it all on alcohol is like blaming it on you. You took all that but somebody prescribed all that, and so many medications shouldn't be prescribe to one person, so the responsibility is not all yours. And you really think if you hadn't drank the alcohol you'd be ok? Maybe you'd be better than now, but that's all.

valiumnomore is definitely right here! There are no sings of cognitive deficits, if there were, they'd be minimal. You're writing in a chaotic style, but who of us here doesn't when our emotions and sxs go haywire. You make SENSE. Your brain is fine.

 

I know you're probably scared from doctors and all the drugs and alcohol you have taken throughout the years, but you might consider finding THE RIGHT psychiatrist this time. They do exist. One that can prescribe you a medication that will work (as long as it's not benzo), and help you sleep, function much better throughout the day, feel remotely normal. You just need to keep searching.

 

In the mean time, don't worry and overthink/overanalyze stuff. You're just going through a lot of pain, and it hurts. I'm sorry

 

It will get better, you'll see!

valiumnomore is definitely right here! There are no sings of cognitive deficits, if there were, they'd be minimal. You're writing in a chaotic style, but who of us here doesn't when our emotions and sxs go haywire. You make SENSE. Your brain is fine.

 

I know you're probably scared from doctors and all the drugs and alcohol you have taken throughout the years, but you might consider finding THE RIGHT psychiatrist this time. They do exist. One that can prescribe you a medication that will work (as long as it's not benzo), and help you sleep, function much better throughout the day, feel remotely normal. You just need to keep searching.

 

In the mean time, don't worry and overthink/overanalyze stuff. You're just going through a lot of pain, and it hurts. I'm sorry

 

It will get better, you'll see!

 

Benzo Mutant I would say better now more drugs for her in a lifetime. She's been on all of them. You have to let the brain heal IMO 

Of course, the situation is very delicate. But suffering is rough, debilitating and crushing sometimes.

 

All I'm suggesting is that she might never had found the right doctor or med. While I was staying at a detox program last spring, there was an elderly patient who had been an alcoholic and had cured himself finally by finding the right medication, which was very expensive.

 

In no way am I suggesting carelessness here. Maybe things should just run their course, and she'll know.

 

For now, just support and hugs, and lots of water! 

I don't even have med options now to help with sleep.  If my sleep deprivation and other symptoms were caused purely by depression and anxiety then maybe there would be more ADs options.  I am feeling really defeated as there has not been any improvements in my symptoms other than less consecutive zero sleep nights. 

Still never getting over 2hrs sleep and 10hrs per week on average. Don't feel human. This has to improve, right? 

Still never getting over 2hrs sleep and 10hrs per week on average. Don't feel human. This has to improve, right?

 

Uncomfortably I'm sorry you're finding no relief. You've been on so many psych drugs already... Why did you CT after the last 10 doses of ativan? You need to stop going on and off , on and off. The only thing I can think of is see if your doctor sees fit to prescribe some propanolol to maybe help a little with the anxiety and maybe get a couple hours sleep.