Help I need a mentor that can help me taper

Hello Everyone. My name is Ted. I need a mentor who has gone through the tapering of K. I have a history of GAD for past 15 years without meds. I tried SSRIS for a really short time. First time they put me on Effexor for 4 months CT, second time I had subacute attack years later took 2 doses of cipralex and went to ER, and recently in December was unknowingly prescribed cipralex again for breakdown due to overwork, school, and an injury. I took half the prescribed dose for 3 weeks and then when I went to full dose within a week the pressure built up so much in head and it gave me the worst depression and anxiety imaginable. To save myself I took 1 mg of Lorazepam and within 30 minutes felt like myself again. Stopped cipralex CT as per doctors orders and remained on Lorazepam at night. In the day anxiety was bad but in the evening I felt relief. The Doctor then had the idea to put me on .5 K as longer lasting. 2 months in I decided I wanted to come off and he said to taper as I saw fit. Not knowing anything about this medication I cut it within a 10 day period. I went into withdrawal. I was sleeping 2 hours a night and was in a terror state during the day Derealized. A week later I had to reinstate as I couldn’t handle the symptoms anymore. He then had the idea that he would raise my dose up to 2 mg per day to lower my anxiety enough to sneak in an SSRI. The medication started giving me negative thoughts throughout the day so I dropped to 1 mg just like that. I went through a month of hell, shaking like a drug addict. My last cut was 40 days ago. I cut .125 and just recently felt some ameliorating of my symptoms. I’m so sensitive to medication that I don’t know whether I should use the cut and hold or something other method to ease the withdrawal symptoms. I need a mentor who somewhat fits my profile and history I can text/email/phone for some guidence.

Thank you

Hi Ted. I recommend you go to Jim Hawk’s of B.B. website www.benzo.alwaysdata.net

and hit the “Read Me First” button and study all that info. Then put in your info and make your choices. It will then immediately produce for you a daily microtaper schedule that you can print out and follow.

 

I am also tapering Kolonopin. I have learned through trial and error that I need to go at 5% over every two weeks ( the slowest choice) and I selected the Attenuated Phase.

 

The result is that I have a 15 month taper for 1.5 mg of Kolonopin. I am using the Direct Taper method of cutting/ shaving pills. Some prefer the liquid titration method. People succeed on either approach.

 

I have fouund that this daily microtaper approach rather than cut and hold leaves me with less symptoms. I have learned, however, that even with this slow approach I get waves here and there.

 

Everyone is different but I have found this to be my best approach.

 

I hope this helps you!

Thank you!

Jim, you shave your pills?  Do you have a gram scale?  I thought the Jim Hawk's schedule would only work if you ground up 10 pills.  Maybe I don't know how to work.  I am only at .5 and am in tolerance but when I tried to do .003 (granted, I think that was 1.79%) cuts over 4 days, I got much more severe symptoms than I expected.  A lot more trembling, muscle weakness, pain starting on the 3rd day.  Maybe that was too much at once. 

Hi Momof7. Yes. I use the scale. I believe the’  ReadMe First’ button shows the exact scale to buy on Amazon, but I haven’t checked lately. I shave/ cut my pills all the way until I get to a very low dose like .006 and below, which is when I start ingesting crushed powder with apple sauce. You will see that a cut of .003 each day off a .5 total daily dose is quick if you do the Jim Hawk Application as I described above. But, that is assuming a total cut rate of 5% over every two weeks, which is what I am doing. Dr. Ashton recommends cutting between 5% and 10%. I found anything more than 5% was too fast  for me.

So basically you’re shaving off .003 every day and that amounts to 5% every 2 weeks?

No. It is not .003 per day. You don’t have to try to guess if it is .001,.002,.003,.004,.005, etc.

 

The Jim Hawk Application on the website I gave above does the math for you. Again, you put in your info. and make your choices (5%) and it gives you your daily taper instantly. It is essentially a computer program. Life is easy after you study ‘Read Me First’ and then follow those instructions.

 

You got this!

Hello Everyone. My name is Ted. I need a mentor who has gone through the tapering of K. I have a history of GAD for past 15 years without meds. I tried SSRIS for a really short time. First time they put me on Effexor for 4 months CT, second time I had subacute attack years later took 2 doses of cipralex and went to ER, and recently in December was unknowingly prescribed cipralex again for breakdown due to overwork, school, and an injury. I took half the prescribed dose for 3 weeks and then when I went to full dose within a week the pressure built up so much in head and it gave me the worst depression and anxiety imaginable. To save myself I took 1 mg of Lorazepam and within 30 minutes felt like myself again. Stopped cipralex CT as per doctors orders and remained on Lorazepam at night. In the day anxiety was bad but in the evening I felt relief. The Doctor then had the idea to put me on .5 K as longer lasting. 2 months in I decided I wanted to come off and he said to taper as I saw fit. Not knowing anything about this medication I cut it within a 10 day period. I went into withdrawal. I was sleeping 2 hours a night and was in a terror state during the day Derealized. A week later I had to reinstate as I couldn’t handle the symptoms anymore. He then had the idea that he would raise my dose up to 2 mg per day to lower my anxiety enough to sneak in an SSRI. The medication started giving me negative thoughts throughout the day so I dropped to 1 mg just like that. I went through a month of hell, shaking like a drug addict. My last cut was 40 days ago. I cut .125 and just recently felt some ameliorating of my symptoms. I’m so sensitive to medication that I don’t know whether I should use the cut and hold or something other method to ease the withdrawal symptoms. I need a mentor who somewhat fits my profile and history I can text/email/phone for some guidence.

Thank you

 

Hello The Greek,

 

I'm sorry things are rough for you right now but it looks like you are getting some good replies from members. Keep posting, others will offer their knowledge and support.

 

We want everyone to remain anonymous here on the forum, this is for each member's security and privacy.  Because of this we disallow the sharing of personal information such as phone numbers and email addresses. I know it might be nice to talk in person over the phone or via email, this is the internet and protecting the privacy and security of members is of utmost importance to us.

 

Frankly, I found all the help and support I needed here on BB, and I needed a lot. I was lost at sea not understanding what was going on with me. So many kind buddies helped me and held my hand, 'virtually' of course.  Keep posting, you'll get the help you need.

 

pianogirl 

Pianogirl,

I read your bio about being on K, being sick on it, trying all different AD and not tolerating.  When you crossed over from K to V, was your CNS really screwed up and did you, by chance, have severe tolerance WD symptoms already?  I know my CNS is battered (from all the different meds and the K usage) but I'm concerned that by holding, my tolerance WD symptoms could only get worse (they are pretty bad right now).  I've heard several say that Valium C/O did not work out well for them.  I'm a little worried to try b/c of it and b/c I'm an ultra-rapid metabolizer of the main enzyme....but I'm not sure I'm gonna be able to continue on K or that I can taper from it.  Looked like you had a pretty rapid taper but healed in 17 months - how horrific were those 17 months?  I'm guessing you weren't able to work, etc?  How functional were you?  Survival tips?   

I also heard that Valium is much more of a depressant. Is this true?

Pianogirl,

I read your bio about being on K, being sick on it, trying all different AD and not tolerating.  When you crossed over from K to V, was your CNS really screwed up and did you, by chance, have severe tolerance WD symptoms already?  I know my CNS is battered (from all the different meds and the K usage) but I'm concerned that by holding, my tolerance WD symptoms could only get worse (they are pretty bad right now).  I've heard several say that Valium C/O did not work out well for them.  I'm a little worried to try b/c of it and b/c I'm an ultra-rapid metabolizer of the main enzyme....but I'm not sure I'm gonna be able to continue on K or that I can taper from it.  Looked like you had a pretty rapid taper but healed in 17 months - how horrific were those 17 months?  I'm guessing you weren't able to work, etc?  How functional were you?  Survival tips? 

 

Hi Mom,

 

You know, I was pretty dumb about benzos for a long time. I was initially given ativan by an ENT for a supposed inner ear issue. He didn't tell me anything about the drug and I reached tolerance very quickly.  Plus, I would often skip a dose to see how my 'ears' were doing.  This would make me terribly ill, but I still had no idea why. No light bulb came on when I felt better after I took a dose.

 

Anyway, I was put on klonopin (clonazepam) when I saw a psychiatrist for the first time because my PCP kept giving me samples of meds that made me really ill.  He also told me he didn't know what was wrong with me after I stopped the ativan, at his direction, for a vestibular wellness test. So I ended up believing that perhaps I had an 'anxiety' problem.

 

I reached tolerance to klonopin as well. When I told the doctor what was going on, his only suggestion was to take an additional dose mid day. I refused because I knew that wasn't the answer.

 

I tried on my own to taper klonopin. Remember, I didn't even know what a benzo was so I just cut the pill in half. Each time I tried this I got very sick. Finally I started to research and read about these drugs and came across the Ashton Manual. I went to my PCP and asked him about changing to valium to taper from. He said 'no' because he had patients that couldn't get off valium. Well hello, the same thing was happening to me with klonopin.

 

Whew, I didn't mean to write a novel! I did find a new doctor that was willing to follow Ashton and I did a rough crossover to valium.  It was extremely sedating at the start and I'd often fall asleep before my nighttime dose. This did get better. I never really stabilized but between reductions, some of the symptom eased up some.  I was just determined to get off the drug.  I was hit hard about a week after my jump off.

 

I was able to work but I have the luxury of teaching piano in my home studio. My teaching suffered but it was a good distraction.  How horrific were those months. I had some pretty bad days where I called in sick with the 'flu' but as time went on some symptom disappeared and others showed up.  At about 4 months off I started cycling and that was really good for me. It was good to get out of the house and out in the world and out in nature.  I built up so I was cycling 4 days a week.

 

There were bad days, I have to be honest. It's hard for me to visualize those days now as I've been well for a long time.  I distracted a lot, accepted that I had to go through the process and always believed in my healing.

 

You can do this!!!

 

PG 

 

Thanks for your story, Pianogirl.  Happy for you that you healed.  I guess sleeping was never an issue for you then?  Insomnia is huge for me and really sets me back.  Do you think if you had microtapered the K that you could have gotten off of it without crossing over?  I'm DEFINITELY in tolerance and my CNS is badly damaged/unstable/unsettled and I'm having a hard time determining whether dosing 1x per day or 2x per day is best - on 2x per day, the morning cortisol surges and agitation are quite bad.  But on 1x per day, other things are bad.  I tried to make micro-cuts just a few days ago and got slammed with even worse symptoms.

My CNS is totally unstable and has been for some time but even worse 2 months ago.  I already have GAD and a history of depression, unfortunately.  Those major depression episodes have scarred me and have impacted me for certain, since I've already been through "hell" before I knew this kind of HELL. 

That’s exactly my worry as well. I’ve been suffering without medication for years and now I don’t know if I could go through this hell. I’m this close to try other medications. I’ve lost interest in life and only look forward to sleeping.