Need some specific advice on DLMT; builder, or any experienced BB, Please!

Long time lurker.  First time poster.  Really glad to be here!

Recently came off of 40+ years of Xanax and Vicodin Rx use over a 2 month time period.  I was on 1.5mg of Xanax a day when I started that fast taper. 

Really bad idea.  Wish I would have known about BB at that time.  Worst thing I've been through.  Water under the bridge, though.

I was off both drugs for a month, and in dire need, before I approached my doctor for help.  I had thoroughly researched this forum and the Ashton Manual and, to my surprise, he agreed to switch me over to up to 30mgs of Valium for a slow taper schedule.

I am currently taking 15mg in three even doses of 5mg each with barely any symptoms.

I would like to liquid taper off of 5mgs at a time, if you all think that is prudent, while taking the other two doses in 5mg pills.  Is this a bad idea?

The only pills that I have available to me for now are 10mgs, though.  I would like to start with a 5% reduction every 14 days to begin with.

Could someone kindly help me with the first 3 or 4 days of a taper schedule, and a solution mix to get me started?  I would be eternally grateful, believe me!

Al

P.S.

I do not want to use any method where you draw from your solution and discard it in any way.

Long time lurker.  First time poster.  Really glad to be here!

 

Recently came off of 40+ years of Xanax and Vicodin Rx use over a 2 month time period.  I was on 1.5mg of Xanax a day when I started that fast taper. 

 

Really bad idea.  Wish I would have known about BB at that time.  Worst thing I've been through.  Water under the bridge, though.

 

I was off both drugs for a month, and in dire need, before I approached my doctor for help.  I had thoroughly researched this forum and the Ashton Manual and, to my surprise, he agreed to switch me over to up to 30mgs of Valium for a slow taper schedule.

 

I am currently taking 15mg in three even doses of 5mg each with barely any symptoms.

 

I would like to liquid taper off of 5mgs at a time, if you all think that is prudent, while taking the other two doses in 5mg pills.  Is this a bad idea?

 

The only pills that I have available to me for now are 10mgs, though.  I would like to start with a 5% reduction every 14 days to begin with.

 

Could someone kindly help me with the first 3 or 4 days of a taper schedule, and a solution mix to get me started?  I would be eternally grateful, believe me!

 

Al

 

P.S.

I do not want to use any method where you draw from your solution and discard it in any way.

Since you apparently have a cooperative doc, ask  him for a scrip for Diazepam Oral Solution.  This is a 1mg=1ml Rx liquid using propylene glycol as a solvent, and is formulated to be further diluted.  Dilute it 9:1 with water and you then have a very convenient .1mg=1ml solution.

If he declines to write that scrip, you can easily prepare your own .1mg=1ml solution, with either 80 proof (or higher) vodka, or propylene glycol.  Use a ratio of 1mg:2ml solvent:8ml water.  This also gives you a .1mg=1ml solution. I suggest making it in 10-14 day batches, to start with 5mg/day of liquid...

Combine 50mg Valium + 100ml solvent + 400ml water.

Based on the parameters you requested (25mg tablets + liquid), 5%/14 days), the schedule would be...

25mg tablets                    50ml (5mg) liquid

25                                      49ml (4.9mg )

25                                      48ml (4.8mg)

25                                      47ml (4.7mg)

etc.....

Just lower your dose by 1ml (.1mg) each day.

You can actually do this with your 10mg tablets if you want.  Break it in half to get the 5mg, just be sure to take both halves on consecutive days.

Rx liquid is the easiest route, but home-made will work just as well.

P.S.   

...and I won't prepare plans for "pull and discard" procedures! 

 

P.S.   

 

...and I won't prepare plans for "pull and discard" procedures! 

 

I've read just about every post that you have written and I KNEW that you would have been the LAST one to do that!! 

builder:

I read on a recent thread that you posted on about you being 70 when you started your DLMT, and all of the dramatic changes that have taken place in your life as a result.

You have no idea the hope and inspiration that you gave me.  I have been recently going back and forth on whether to attempt this taper, seeing how I am 65.  I was not even going to post to this board.  I was thinking, "what is the use" at my age.  I am so fortunate to have run across you, builder!

What you have given me, no man can buy.  And I thank you for it, my friend! 

Do any of you know of reputable studies done on older adults and benzos? I am 69, and got off benzos in 2012. Long time ago. And I did heal but it took a very long time and struggle. It seems to me that lately, a LOT of our members are over 60. And I am glad this is so.

I just do not know if anyone has done real research on this.

In some ways I think older people have it a bit easier because we have already weathered many Life Crisis. But does benzo WD cause us more problems than a younger person?

builder:

One question.  I think that the parameters that I wrote down were 10mgs of tablets (one 5mg tab, twice a day) PLUS the third 5mg tablet which I would be liquid titrating down each day.  I'm on 15mgs total V a day.

So, would that be 10mg in tablets, plus 5% X 15mg = .75mg, then .75mg divided by 14 days = .054mg (.54ml) daily reduction?

And would that look like:

10mg tablets              50ml (5mg) liquid

10mg                        49.46ml  (4.946mg)

10mg                        48.92ml  (4.892mg)

10mg                        48.38ml  (4.838 mg)

etc.                       

Please correct me wherever I am wrong.

And thanks ever so much once again!

Al

builder:

 

I read on a recent thread that you posted on about you being 70 when you started your DLMT, and all of the dramatic changes that have taken place in your life as a result.

 

You have no idea the hope and inspiration that you gave me.  I have been recently going back and forth on whether to attempt this taper, seeing how I am 65.  I was not even going to post to this board.  I was thinking, "what is the use" at my age.  I am so fortunate to have run across you, builder!

 

What you have given me, no man can buy.  And I thank you for it, my friend! 

1)  Unless you have some serious health issue that will significantly reduce your lifespan, 65 is definitely NOT "old".  A 65 year-old has a reasonable expectation of anothe 20 years, perhaps even 30 or more.

2)  Benzos are depressant drugs, and long-term, continued use causes a gradual, but cumulative depression.  I was clearly depressed, but the onset had been so gradual I wasn;t fully cognizant of it happening, and because of my age, I really dismissed the sxs as "normal" aging.  It was NOT!

Fairly early in my taper, as my dose was beginning to decline, there were a number of very noticeable changes in my behavior and energy. I can assure you I am a very different person emotionally and physically than I was 5 years ago.

I suspect getting off of benzos will dramatically reshape your life.

builder:

 

One question.  I think that the parameters that I wrote down were 10mgs of tablets (one 5mg tab, twice a day) PLUS the third 5mg tablet which I would be liquid titrating down each day.  I'm on 15mgs total V a day.

 

So, would that be 10mg in tablets, plus 5% X 15mg = .75mg, then .75mg divided by 14 days = .054mg (.54ml) daily reduction?

 

And would that look like:

 

10mg tablets              50ml (5mg) liquid

10mg                        49.46ml  (4.946mg)

10mg                        48.92ml  (4.892mg)

10mg                        48.38ml  (4.838 mg)

etc.                       

 

Please correct me wherever I am wrong.

 

And thanks ever so much once again!

 

Al

Sorry, I saw the "...he agreed to switch me over to up to 30mgs of Valium for a slow taper schedule.." but didn't catch the rest.

Your calculation and schedule is correct, but I strongly suggest you just round it off to .5mg/day reduction.  Working to 3 decimal places unnecessarily just complicates it, and doesn't improve the success of the taper anyway.

I couldn’t agree with you more. How incredibly indispensable is Builder?  The ultimate voice of reason with Every. Single. Post. He is remarkably patient to a fault... with even the most mundane and cockeyed  Benzo Brain/cog fog/math challenged question that is posed to him.  He’s hits you over the head with the simplicity and always says very gently, “this is not complicated.”  Then he holds your hand and reassures you that he will help no matter what. He’s truly a godsend.  💜

I don’t know where he is or where he came from but omg... builder, never go away  NEVER.

It sure doesn't take long being on this board to realize the importance of builder to the success of this forum. 

Many of us would be absolutely, positively lost without him and his gentle way of explaining the same things over and over again. 

Al

I would have been lost without Builder's help.

It is amazing the number of people he has helped.

He is incredibly knowledgeable and unbelievably generous in the time that he spends on this board helping people long after he has himself recovered.

Do any of you know of reputable studies done on older adults and benzos? I am 69, and got off benzos in 2012. Long time ago. And I did heal but it took a very long time and struggle. It seems to me that lately, a LOT of our members are over 60. And I am glad this is so.

I just do not know if anyone has done real research on this.

In some ways I think older people have it a bit easier because we have already weathered many Life Crisis. But does benzo WD cause us more problems than a younger person?

It seems that the elderly are the first of many to come to experience the negative side effects of these poisons.  We have been on them the longest and, hence, are the first to become problematic with their insidious after effects. 

This seems like it is going to be quite the uphill battle to bring the problems that benzos bring with them to the general public.  And even more so to any Federal Agency that can do something about stopping them in their tracks.

I have not heard of any studies done on older adults concerning benzos, but if you hear of any I, and I'm sure many on this board, would be very interested in reading them.

Al

builder:

 

One question.  I think that the parameters that I wrote down were 10mgs of tablets (one 5mg tab, twice a day) PLUS the third 5mg tablet which I would be liquid titrating down each day.  I'm on 15mgs total V a day.

 

So, would that be 10mg in tablets, plus 5% X 15mg = .75mg, then .75mg divided by 14 days = .054mg (.54ml) daily reduction?

 

And would that look like:

 

10mg tablets              50ml (5mg) liquid

10mg                        49.46ml  (4.946mg)

10mg                        48.92ml  (4.892mg)

10mg                        48.38ml  (4.838 mg)

etc.                       

 

Please correct me wherever I am wrong.

 

And thanks ever so much once again!

 

Al

 

Sorry, I saw the "...he agreed to switch me over to up to 30mgs of Valium for a slow taper schedule.." but didn't catch the rest.

 

Your calculation and schedule is correct, but I strongly suggest you just round it off to .5mg/day reduction.  Working to 3 decimal places unnecessarily just complicates it, and doesn't improve the success of the taper anyway.

builder:

Did you mean .05mg/day reduction, resulting in a .5ml/day reduction?

I am confused, which is not out of the ordinary lately. 

Al

Hi AL!  You know builder will get back to you. He’s steady as a rock.  That was pretty funny about confusion being rather ordinary now.  Welcome to MY world. 

I don’t post much but I really hope he saw our Appreciation Posts!  I mean credit where credit is due.

Right?!

As he always says, “this is NOT complicated!”  Easy for him to say!!  :)

builder:

 

One question.  I think that the parameters that I wrote down were 10mgs of tablets (one 5mg tab, twice a day) PLUS the third 5mg tablet which I would be liquid titrating down each day.  I'm on 15mgs total V a day.

 

So, would that be 10mg in tablets, plus 5% X 15mg = .75mg, then .75mg divided by 14 days = .054mg (.54ml) daily reduction?

 

And would that look like:

 

10mg tablets              50ml (5mg) liquid

10mg                        49.46ml  (4.946mg)

10mg                        48.92ml  (4.892mg)

10mg                        48.38ml  (4.838 mg)

etc.                       

 

Please correct me wherever I am wrong.

 

And thanks ever so much once again!

 

Al

 

Sorry, I saw the "...he agreed to switch me over to up to 30mgs of Valium for a slow taper schedule.." but didn't catch the rest.

 

Your calculation and schedule is correct, but I strongly suggest you just round it off to .5mg/day reduction.  Working to 3 decimal places unnecessarily just complicates it, and doesn't improve the success of the taper anyway.

 

builder:

Did you mean .05mg/day reduction, resulting in a .5ml/day reduction?

 

 

Yes.

Good catch!