Ambien after benzo withdrawal?

Hi, everyone. Has anyone used zolpidem/Ambien after benzo withdrawal? I know it binds to the GABA-A receptor and is generally not prescribed in the case of prior benzo dependency, but I'm wondering just how serious it is for use for insomnia.

 

I've always had insomnia, which was managed last year with trazodone, but the buildup of the trazodone metabolite mCPP was (I believe) the culprit in causing me to develop panic disorder again. I thought perhaps it was from using benzodiazepines, but now I'm not so sure. I was physically dependent on benzos (clonazepam) back in 2013 but came off them through a slow taper, and have not taken any benzos in several months now. After detoxing back in 2013, I only really took benzos for events like surgery or public speaking (I'm a medical student, so both are common) and would say my maximum monthly dose was around 6 mg of clonazepam, usually in 0.5 mg or 1.0 mg dosages split over the course of the month for anxiety-inducing events. I would often go very long periods without any benzo use, e.g. six months or longer. This last January I had a string of such anxiety-provoking events back to back and began using clonazepam, though I don't think I took enough to actually cause dependency and am now strongly suspecting that the mCPP from high-dose chronic-use trazodone (300 mg/night for around six months) was the culprit in inducing anxiety. Nevertheless, I'm worried that using zolpidem/Ambien could result in benzo withdrawal symptoms and we all know how much I want to avoid that.

 

Any experience in this area? Please limit responses to personal experience, not general guidelines/commentary because I already know all of that and am more looking for what people have directly experienced as opposed to the standard Dos and Don'ts that we all know and love. Thanks!

Speaking from personal experience as you have requested...STAY AWAY FROM AMBIEN!!!!!! You cannot even imagine the potential that this drug has for making your current problems feel like a Sunday afternoon in the park compared to what it can do to you.

 

Ambien can be used safely if you follow the prescribing info, but due to the drug's effectiveness, it can be very easy to slowly exceed the short-term usage only guideline and then depending upon your circumstances, the gates of hell can be open for you. Sounds dramatic, but this was my experience. As a medical student, you would better serve your future patients by learning how to deal with anxiety and insomnia without resorting to medications that have such potential dangers. Spend enough time reading the accounts of others on this forum and you will know what I mean.

I think I should have added a “no judgment” clause as well. Thanks for relating your personal experiences, but I don’t appreciate the “you should learn how to deal with anxiety without using dangerous medications” bit, especially by claiming it has some kind of effect on my future patients. If everyone could simply “learn how to deal with anxiety and insomnia” then none of us would ever be on this site, would we?

 

I do every single thing I can to combat anxiety and insomnia, including every suggestion this message board has to offer. I also utilize my own training. But what makes anxiety disorders what they are is that not even all of this combined together works all the time, and if you’d ever been in medical school, you’d know there’s simply no time for dysfunction, and so unfortunate compromises are made. We don’t get sick days or vacation, and no matter what is going on in our lives, we are expected to perform at maximal efficiency and standards, so please, show a little compassion.

My sincere apologies for having offended, it is just that I hear about far too many doctors who dispense benzos and Ambien like candy because their patients request it. I just found out that my own GP prescribed 10 mg. of Ambien to my wife's friend without exploring other options when the prescribing info states that the maximum recommended dosage for women is 5mg.

 

You asked to hear about a personal experience and mine has made me want to stand on a rooftop and shout to the world to stay the fu*ck away from these drugs unless they are to be used only to get through a short-term serious hardship (as they were actually intended for). The slope is just too slippery to be taken lightly, especially following a previous withdrawal encounter. After 4 years since my last dose of Ambien I am still experiencing sleep disturbances that I did NOT have before experiencing withdrawal. Had I been going to medical school when I was slammed by acute withdrawal, I would most certainly have been forced to drop out.

 

Believe it or not, it is with compassion that I addressed your inquiry. I could have left BenzoBuddies long ago, but I make it a point to stick around to try and help folks, especially if there is any hope in stopping someone from making a potentially big mistake. Sometimes people do not want to hear an answer that was not the one that they were hoping for. It is your choice if you want to ignore my "judgmental" testimony. Perhaps I will be reading posts from a future new regular on this forum, but I hope not. If there was enough education about other options out there, this site would not have a need to exist.

I recently took ambien for a month, after being off benzos for about 6 months. My experience this time was similar to my many past experiences with ambien. I have several major issues with ambien that make me recommend that people not try ambien, or try it with extreme caution. The first and most sinister is memory loss. When I take ambien (5 or more mg), I cannot remember anything that happens in the next 10 hours or so. This includes things like talking to my husband when he comes to bed, picking up my phone and texting friends, and even my morning shower when I wake up. My second issue is tolerance. Ambien stops working for me after about 2-3 weeks, and given its side effects, increasing the dosage is not an option for me. I have read of people who stay on the same dose for many years, so I guess that is an individual thing. Other side effects for me include increased depression, fatigue, and a mild feeling of having a hangover the next day. Quitting ambien after about a month of use causes about a week of severe insomnia and restless legs (in my case). I am currently 3 weeks off Ambien and feeling a lot better than I was when I was taking it. Let me know if you have any other questions.

I would suggest avoiding the ambien. Both Benadryl and melatonin can be effective without being harmful.

Ambien is why I even learned about benzos. After around 3 years on a nightly 10 mg dose of Ambien, I suddenly began having chronic burning throat sensation. It was so bad I checked myself into an Inpatient VA facility. My first night there I was given Ativan. I left that facility with two prescribed drugs....Ambien and Ativan..... both of which made my life an incomprehensible nightmare.

 

Oddly, before that acute reaction to Ambien, I had planned on stopping Ambien as it had not been working that well for some time.

 

Just my experience.........summed up....I would NEVER take either of these drugs again. Ambien is extremely dangerous. Wish I had known.

 

 

I do accept the huge pressures on you.

I might consider an antihistamine at night as suggested elsewhere.

Personally I would not take a z drug and possibly using intermittent benzos is only for a real crisis.

Please say what non drug intervention you have tried. You must be aware of van de Kerk’s work on brain plasticity.

I hope you find an answer

Dick

I think I should have added a “no judgment” clause as well. Thanks for relating your personal experiences, but I don’t appreciate the “you should learn how to deal with anxiety without using dangerous medications” bit, especially by claiming it has some kind of effect on my future patients. If everyone could simply “learn how to deal with anxiety and insomnia” then none of us would ever be on this site, would we?

 

I do every single thing I can to combat anxiety and insomnia, including every suggestion this message board has to offer. I also utilize my own training. But what makes anxiety disorders what they are is that not even all of this combined together works all the time, and if you’d ever been in medical school, you’d know there’s simply no time for dysfunction, and so unfortunate compromises are made. We don’t get sick days or vacation, and no matter what is going on in our lives, we are expected to perform at maximal efficiency and standards, so please, show a little compassion.

 

You want people on benzobuddies to tell you it’s okay to take ambien. Probably not going to happen, sorry. 

 

There are many things to try that don’t bind to GABA.

I recently took ambien for a month, after being off benzos for about 6 months. My experience this time was similar to my many past experiences with ambien. I have several major issues with ambien that make me recommend that people not try ambien, or try it with extreme caution. The first and most sinister is memory loss. When I take ambien (5 or more mg), I cannot remember anything that happens in the next 10 hours or so. This includes things like talking to my husband when he comes to bed, picking up my phone and texting friends, and even my morning shower when I wake up. My second issue is tolerance. Ambien stops working for me after about 2-3 weeks, and given its side effects, increasing the dosage is not an option for me. I have read of people who stay on the same dose for many years, so I guess that is an individual thing. Other side effects for me include increased depression, fatigue, and a mild feeling of having a hangover the next day. Quitting ambien after about a month of use causes about a week of severe insomnia and restless legs (in my case). I am currently 3 weeks off Ambien and feeling a lot better than I was when I was taking it. Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

I too have had memory loss after taking Ambien, but not going to bed right away. My wife called me once while I was on a business trip and we had a long conversation that I had zero memory of the next morning. I have read stories of people driving to the store to by a snack and not remembering having done so and a doctor friend told me about one of his patients who was arrested for walking around the neighborhood naked at night. That sort of stuff doesn't happen with benzos.

In no specific order:

 

I’m not looking for approval, just looking for less of the heavyhandedness that (frankly) is a little ridiculous when said to someone who knows all about this stuff, right down to the cellular level...not to mention from personal experience. The data on the issues we share here is pretty sparse, in particular for post-benzo withdrawal use of Z drugs, so that’s what I’m after. No offense to anyone, it’s just that if you want to discount my working around 90 hours a week for the last three years learning about this stuff, that’s hardly a position of respect I’m afforded.

 

I have taken every antihistamine there is for insomni, including the prescription hydroxyzine. The long half-lives of all those is pretty detrimental when I have to wake up and be hyperfunctional an hour later. Ambien is dangerous but thank God its half-life is only a couple hours. I too have the memory deficits and personality changes but not so much the next day, which is fine by me.

 

Mostly I’m just trying to avoid seizures and brain damage, and wondering what others have experienced when using Ambien after benzo withdrawal. Again, no offense to anyone, but try to understand that talking to me about pharmacology is like explaining to a firefighter how dangerous fire can be. I appreciate all the kind words and personal stories for those who have provided them, so thank you immensely for that.

 

To whoever said I’m looking for sanction to take Ambien: Why are you even on this board if you’re just going to be a condescending judgmental dick? Do any of us really need that, ever?

If you are such an expert on the subject, then why waste the time of us lowly folk with your inquires. If you are just trying to practice being a typical dick of a doctor, you are already pretty good at it. Unfortunately, common sense cannot be learned from reading books.

No one questions the ridiculous and unhealthy workload that is thrust upon medical students, but one thing that many of us have learned from bitter experience is that z-drugs and benzos can suddenly turn on you, and literally rip your life and livelihood right out from under you.

 

It really doesn’t matter what anyone knows about pharmacology, because none of that matters once you’re standing there in ruins, deprived of your own personality, ambition and motivation; quivering with the darkest fears imaginable, plagued with insurmountable exhaustion and dizziness, but unable to sleep at all for days on end, frightened of bathwater and your own pets – and those are just for starters.

 

If folks seem to react strongly, it is because most of us have had our souls sucked right out of us, no matter how driven and functional we once were.

 

Learning alternative methods for dealing with stress and insomnia are less appealing than the instant relief afforded by drugs, but they’re all that we have left after we’ve gotten off these destructive poisons, and they were a choice we could have made in the first place. And guess what? They work.

 

What you’re going through is terrible, no doubt, but it can get so much worse – trust me on this.

Well written Leslie!

Thanks, Leslie. As I said before and as implied by the title of this thread I have been through my own ringer with benzo withdrawal. I don’t claim that medical knowledge is salvational, just that it’s overkill and senseless for anyone to lecture to a person who actually gives pharmacology lectures.

 

I think overall there is a lack of charity in this group, by which I mean that the assumptions made are not the most respectful of a person’s intelligence. For example, I’m told there are non-benzo/Z-drug alternatives. Does anyone really think I don’t know that? And I’ve tried them all. I’m told there are “alternatives” to medications; does anyone think I don’t know that? And again, I’ve tried them all. I was extremely reluctant to go on Ambien but with board exams and clinicals there’s not much choice. I simply cannot have a night where I don’t get enough sleep. That could get someone killed.

 

So I fully get the horror stories. I’ve lived my own back when I came off of clonazepam. And I get the warnings and that they probably come from a place of personal passion as well as compassion. But I think the former is outshining the latter here, which you recognize. People here have had such bad experiences that their reactions to this kind of thread are hostile and vehement. That’s passion, but not really compassion.

 

This is why right from the beginning I asked just for personal experiences, not admonishments or lectures. It may wound some people’s egos to hear, but some of us know just as much and even far more than they do about this entire matter. It’s disrespectful to ignore or dismiss that fact, which causes harm and no good.

 

So I think your point is well-taken but may be saying more than you realized. The minute that personal experience brands you with a form of trauma that then becomes part of your identity, you act with passion and may think of yourself as an “advocate”, but are more like a soldier, hellbent on a singular mission with no time or care for considering the opposition. This is the exact opposite of compassion, which literally means having that same zeal and urgency but for another’a situation, not the memory of your own. These days everyone has some cause that they serve based on some experience they’ve had, usually negative. While that can do very good things, it also leads to what we’ve seen unfold in this thread here.

 

Personal accounts and stories stripped of the attendant lecture are effective because they aren’t condescending, presumptuous, or pointed. They allow people to express their passions without offputting or alienating others. I’ve read a lot of posts on this forum and so many tske the form “here is what you need to realize/think/try” as opposed to “here is what my experience was”. Many times the two are combined, wih the false belief that the latter justifies the former. In general, I think more people respond to a person relating their personal experiences and what worked for them rather than asserting what others need to or should do.

I took Ambien for about 7 to 9 years on and off before I was prescribed clonazepam. I never had any issues getting on or off Ambien in the past as far as withdrawal goes aside from just reoccurring insomnia. However after being off of the benzodiazopine for 4 months I have recently taken Ambien again to attempt sleep and I can say that although it has help me sleep. I do not take it anymore as the waves the next day are very intense. I guess because it has a shorter half-life you really feel out the next day so I guess you have to ask if you want to trade a good night sleep for a terrible next day. Everybody reacts differently though that just has been my experience

 

 

Life is a series of choices. You can choose to take Ambien in spite of the many warnings offered, or you can choose not to. You can also choose to continue reading replies that seem to offend and frustrate you, or you can move on.

I too have had memory loss after taking Ambien, but not going to bed right away. My wife called me once while I was on a business trip and we had a long conversation that I had zero memory of the next morning. I have read stories of people driving to the store to by a snack and not remembering having done so and a doctor friend told me about one of his patients who was arrested for walking around the neighborhood naked at night. That sort of stuff doesn't happen with benzos.

 

I also experienced memory loss  when on. Ambien.  I remember waking up with sunflower seeds by my pillow. My first thought...how did these seeds get here?  I’m pretty fastidious when it comes to certain things..... in my right mind something like that would never have occurred.  It was enough seeds to get my attention 

Great replies, thanks!

 

Also to clarify, I didn’t find Leslie’s post to be offensive. Honestly only a couple people have been dismissive, disrespectful, and unhelpful out of hand; otherwise I’ve found the responses helpful and kind. Thanks to (almost) all for that!

Just letting you know from my personal experience took Ambien for the same reason you did.. get through grad school, get through life, etc.. It worked wonders at first, but I later became dependent upon it just to function. I experienced countless side effects while on it (typical sleep walking, drowsiness, stomach pains, etc..) but powered through them because I needed to sleep.  My doctor told me it was generally safe, the alternative (no sleep) was worse, and kept me on the drug.  Fast forward almost 9years later-- the side effects became worse (particularly stomach pains, which later dissipated after stopping the drug), I noticed I needed higher dosages for the same effect (10mg wasn't putting me to sleep anymore) so I tried to cold turkey off it.  After I CT off  the drug a host of problems that I never had until after C/T suddenly appeared (chronic insomnia, panic attacks, anxiety, paresthesia, urinary frequency, joint and muscle pain). 3 years later and some of the physical symptoms still remain (paresthesia, urinary frequency, joint pain, etc.)

 

I've had a battery of tests to figure out if there was something else going on (full body MRI's, CT scans, EMG's, cystoscopy, blood panels, rheum panels, autoimmune panels.. etc).  To this date all my tests come back normal.  I am still on this board searching for answers and support because I believe the long term use of the drug has either directly injured my brain (e.g. abnormal gaba receptors, brain shrinkage, or other brain damage), or directly contributed to another disease process (autoimmune?).  Among the reasons I believe this include (a) timing of onset of symptoms... all happened shortly after stopping medication (b) comprehensive medical tests which have given me no alternative explanations for my sx © my relative young age in which the sx occurred (i was still in my 30s when this nightmare began).

 

If you are indeed in the medical field you know that while studies and tests are extremely important, they are also limited in scope and must constantly be challenged and reevaluated.  To my knowledge there is very little study on the long term effects these drugs (benzos, z-drugs, etc) have on patients. In light of this, the numerous stories and personal testimony regarding the effects these drugs can have should probably carry significant weight.

 

I know you are just looking for anecdotal stories to consider your own decision on whether you should take the drug. I am just offering my experience and letting you decide whether the risk/ reward is worth it.  If you do decide to take it, I would recommend only using it short term/ sporadic relief.  I know of plenty of stories of folks who were on the drug short term and had no difficulties whatsoever (other than the normal drowsiness, short term dependence).  I am also aware that there are plenty of folks who have taken the drug longer than I have and are completely fine (but then again, I also know plenty of smokers who fit this category and I still wouldn't recommend smoking).  I'm just letting you know my personal experience and my personal belief that these drugs directly contributed to my current health issues.  Based on the stories you hear I am sure you are doing your own cost/benefit/ risk analysis..

 

Regardless of what you decide, please keep us informed of the outcome (good or bad) so others can also make informed decisions--even if they are based on anecdotal evidence/ personal stories.

 

I know you are just looking for anecdotal stories to consider your own decision on whether you should take the drug. I am just offering my experience and letting you decide whether the risk/ reward is worth it.  If you do decide to take it, I would recommend only using it short term/ sporadic relief.  I know of plenty of stories of folks who were on the drug short term and had no difficulties whatsoever (other than the normal drowsiness, short term dependence).  I am also aware that there are plenty of folks who have taken the drug longer than I have and are completely fine (but then again, I also know plenty of smokers who fit this category and I still wouldn't recommend smoking).  I'm just letting you know my personal experience and my personal belief that these drugs directly contributed to my current health issues.  Based on the stories you hear I am sure you are doing your own cost/benefit/ risk analysis..

 

Regardless of what you decide, please keep us informed of the outcome (good or bad) so others can also make informed decisions--even if they are based on anecdotal evidence/ personal stories.

 

If my memory serves me right it was around 2-3 months after I first began taking Ambien, when my Psychiatrist abruptly stopped my prescription, due to something I said during an office visit. I was surprised and shocked with his knee jerk reaction. I was also naive in my interpretation of what I saw as an innocuous sleep med. He clearly knew otherwise, and rightly reacted accordingly.

 

My next recollection of this account is, I immediately reacted to having no Ambien...I was essentially c/t’ed. Then struggled through at least 2-3 weeks  of very little sleep.  I remember it as absolute sleepless nights...but who knows my memory is so bad.

 

I was so desperate that I called the VA clinic and pleaded my sanity. I asked the front desk worker if

they would please relay my message to my Psychiatrist.......to please once again prescribe Ambien for me. I was surprised that he agreed to it.

 

My conclusion is, if someone thinks short term use is ok...I would say...at your own risk. These drugs are very insidious. I always thought of myself as cautious and not one to likely ever be hurt by a psych med.  I see how fooled I was, only after the fact. I do understand insomnia...how crippling it is...I was desperate enough to ask for it from the start. A decision I will regret for who knows how long.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't suggest it. I've been on it for years. It's a bitch to get off of too.

Thanks for adding your story BlueRose— yes there are also plenty of stories of those who have taken the drug short term and have had terrible reactions, w/d. Etc Def “at your own risk”. - I wish I knew that stories before getting on meds. And I echo Mayavsta— it is very difficult to get off of— I forgot to mention I tried tapering/ getting off of it numerous times and failed before ct

My experience was that my background in the health care field blinded me to the potential harm of psychotropic medications, especially benzos and z-drugs. I knew how drugs worked (although most of our understanding of psychotropics is weak and limited) and thought that they were helping me treat my medical conditions. I was naive and blinded by my own arrogance. Now I'm able to help those who choose the road less traveled to avoid some of the same mistakes...or recover after making them.

 

All of us here have made some mistakes. I sure have. My most major mistake was believing I had to sleep to work with my patients or I'd risk their lives. In reality, my blindness, and then the extreme wd I went through, placed them at even more at risk.  Then I was forced to learn that I could do my job on zero sleep and while my autonomic nervous system was deep in sympathetic dominance, keeping me in continuous fight/flight. It was a painful lesson to learn but also an enormous gift to learn how strong and courageous I could choose to be in the face of abject terror and misery. I witness that same courage every time I come to BB. You have that potential within you too. People on here have managed to go without drugs after losing loved ones, while going through cancer, while having high pressure jobs, and while parenting multiple small children. These brothers and sister of mine, of yours, are an inspiration. I would hope their stories could help protect you from risking further harm but ultimately that's a choice we all have to make for ourselves.

 

Perhaps you aren't aware of the experienced physicians, those who have practiced for many years, who also have been surprised by their own personal experiences of wd.  Here are just two examples:

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/362/bmj.k3208/rr-0

 

https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2017/11/take-physician-beware-dangers-benzodiazepines.html

 

I hope you find what it is you need with some peace and clarity about how to proceed. I wish you well.

MTFan - thanks for those links. Interesting read, although I would have liked to have smacked the poster who accused the one doctor of "anectotal" evidence into next month. What a know-nothing asshat. Walk a mile in my shoes, jerko.