Jump to content

potential problems w/ high fat/keto diet


[Ma...]

Recommended Posts

I don't know how to put this delicately, so I'll just be blunt, which is my wont. Have you seen the studies with the correlation between meat and various abdominal area cancers? If you're that worried about cancer, you might want to check some of those studies out. Dr. Greger touches on a lot of them on his website, nutritionfacts.org.

 

I'm not telling you not to eat meat and dairy. I do myself on occasion (except dairy, we don't touch it), and I have pretty strong cravings for it in winter. I'm just saying try cutting back for a month or two and see if your gut improves. *shrug* Some do, some don't. Mine did. Then again, those on the carnivore diets say the same, but I think they're asking for trouble long term.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Replies 54
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • [Ma...]

    27

  • [Da...]

    9

  • [Ma...]

    4

  • [Fo...]

    3

Top Posters In This Topic

I agree about not eating as much meat but it isn't easy for me right now. I've been eating way less though and not every day like I used to. I probably need to eat some red meat because it has been a while.

 

As of right now I've been getting these tiny red and purple spots on my arms and torso. Not sure if it is because of the omeprazole but this is the latest development. They may be called purpura or petechiae. Now I'm wondering if the pain in my upper left stomach is because of my spleen or if I have a type of blood cancer. Hard to tell what is causing it because I've been taking crazy amounts of supplements recently on top of the omeprazole. I slowed down with that, the last time I had one was last Sunday. My stomach and back is still bothering me but not as much as before. I think drinking bone broth on an empty stomach first thing in the morning when I take meds has helped. Recently, I've been taking stuff like green tea extract, nigella sativa extract, pqq, magnolia bark extract, baicalein, curcumin, some mushroom extracts, ashwagandha extract, kanna extract, a little noopept, fasoracetam, tianeptine, low doses of buprenorphine, that omeprazole. Also stuff like krill oil and coenzyme q 10 supplements. Some of the things mention I just skip days here and there.

 

I ate half a bag of these chickpea puffs called Hippeas yesterday and some of my stool was yellow. I hope it's because of eating those very quickly in excess.

I decided not to do the CT scan for the time being. Overall, my energy level is decent and I feel okay. I've been tapering off the phenibut pretty painlessly. I should be done tapering that in a few weeks or so, and should be off everything else shortly after. Then I don't know what to do next. I'm seriously thinking of  buying a tent and living in the woods for a week with no food at all and just some water and maybe some electrolyte supplements incase I need them but nothing else, not even a phone. I just need to get away from all this crap I take. My room looks like vitamin shoppe there are so many containers of stuff laying around. I convince myself that most of this stuff is helping me and making me healthier but I don't even know what to think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I eat a whole foods plant based diet advocated by doctors like Ornish, Barnard, McDougall, Fuhrman, and Esselstyln. I personally think keto is unhealthy. Dr. Atkins had heart disease himself when he died. I would never eat a diet like this long-term. JMHO tho!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder if overeating keto foods did this to my stomach. I really overdid the macadamia nuts, the oils and meats. Maybe I flew too close to the sun. Paying the price
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So my stomach has been getting better I think by eating alot of Manuka honey, like over 300g worth spread out three days. Energy level has been through the roof since getting to 500mg of phenibut. I managed to convince the GI doctor to order an abdominal MRI w/w/out contrast for the end of July so I don't have to get that CT scan I was worried about. My oral surgery appointment is this Friday so I'm going to find out what is going to happen with this cyst I have in my jaw I hope. I think it shrunk alot but will see what the scan shows. I will be off the remaining amount of phenibut, memantine and buprenorphine in a few weeks. So my epic taper is coming to an end finally. I managed to get a window and a big reduction in ocd and anxiety symptoms by using ketamine. I've been walking on average of 10 miles a day for the past week. Been losing alot of weight too from not eating much. I'm down to 155lbs at 6'.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey bro. I don't know about all that. Just hope it was a good omen. Whatever is going on with my stomach is nothing too serious more than likely I'm thinking. I'm doing better though. Seems like eating too much fat, even from plant based sources can bring on this weird stomach pain. So, I'm still worried I have some issue digesting fats or there is just this pain in my stomach and back from eating them I don't know. This is what started making me think I have an issue with my pancreas but all the evidence so far doesn't show that. I'm trying not to go crazy over this. Seems that gabapentin and phenibut can cause some stomach issues coming off them though.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't doubt it, after coming off K and Olanzapine my stomach basically didn't work for 3 months. How much weight have you lost from not eating and exercising a ton?

 

With the stomach pain from fat...not sure. Could just be withdrawal. I mean, I couldn't eat anything, so I'd say you're doing ok. Good to get it checked out though. Are you slowing down your taper near the end so that you don't end up with an epic post-withdrawal syndrome to go with that epic taper?

 

Did you ever name that owl? I vote for "Headwig".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I started doing keto at around 175-180lbs I think. Not eating much and exercising really sheds off the pounds indeed. I'm going to slow it down a little bit. The fasoracetam ended up to really upregulate gaba b receptors I think. Not sure what the catch is yet if anything but phenibut WD is pretty mild. The most difficulty is just being more sober, I sense it is related to my stomach issues. Im not used to being sober. It's difficult. That owl was cool.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m so happy you’re doing better Mamoot! You’ve inspired me to eat some Manuka honey today. I’ve had some in the pantry for awhile  :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://allamericanpharmaceutical.com/sfh-2244-keto-diet-may-cause-pancreatic-failure/

 

I'm listening to this right now. Data, please listen to this if you can, there is an audio podcast in that link you just press play on...... because something in me tells me something may actually be up with my pancreas now after some things I'm noticing. I'm doing better overall but yesterday I ate an entire avocado and some canadian bacon which is 97% lean and I started noticing the mid back pain again and the pain underneath my left shoulder blade in the mid left back region. After that I ate this bowl of nut and seed grain free granola that had coconut flakes in it with some of this Milkadamia nut milk and the pain in my upper left abdomen came back like I was getting some type of attack. I keep thinking that my pancreas is releasing lipase enzymes inside my pancreas and it is causing the organ to digest itself with this weird miserable pain that varies in intensity. So, I did go to the ER twice since May 7th and they told me I didn't have pancreatitis. My lipase levels were normal in the blood work so I'm at a loss here.

 

Right now I have mild-moderate stomach pain but it's extremely distressful on an emotional level. My fasting blood glucose levels seem to be borderline high with my dieting and exercising. It was 103mg/dL this morning. But after that grain free granola triggered the upper left abdominal pain I did go get this taco salad at some restaurant with a friend. Then I stopped and got this peanut butter crunch Cliff bar and a bag of Skinny pop popcorn.

 

I also noticed that MCT oil doesn't seem to cause additional abdominal pain, which is why they recommend it to people with pancreas problems since MCT's are absorbed through the portal vein in the liver bypassing pancreatic enzymatic digestion. I'm not sure if I can use MCT oil as a diagnostic aid but it seems to not bother my stomach.

 

I think I need to fast or follow some strict pancreas problemo diet until I get this MRI on July 29th. If keto did this to me I think people should know. I ate massive amounts of macadamia nuts everyday along with other high fat foods. I abused keto so maybe something is up with the pancreas.

 

That link is basically talking about insulin resistance caused by keto. There are some studies saying that keto causes pancreatitis though.

 

So far, foods that may have helped this problem are broccoli sprouts, manuka honey and cabbage juice. Bone broth doesn't seem to aggravate it. I'm getting tired of losing weight and it looks like I'm going to have to eat less and fast to bounce back from this again. This sucks. This time I'm not going to eat any nuts or seeds until this gets better because I'm really sensitive to them it seems.

 

Never mind about that link Data. It isn't going to say much about what is happening to me I'm thinking. This is a medical mystery

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mamoot,

 

I forget if you mentioned this, but did the doctor consider gall stones as a cause of the pain? He must have. I think pain upon eating a fatty meal is generally considered a hallmark symptom of gallstones.

 

I'll listen to that podcast and check out the study they mention, if I can find it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good god, their description of the study is so terrible I can't even find what they are talking about. "Along comes this study from 1999"??? I also love how he says it was a very well done study but he doesn't know if it was done on rats or humans lol. I checked The Journal of Diabetes for 1999 and they don't have any article on the ketogenic diet causing the body to attack cells in the pancreas. Searching "ketogenic diet" for that year only returned 8 results. In any case, I did find this article, where researchers also made some pretty shaky claims based on data that didn't really justify them: https://www.healthline.com/health-news/keto-diet-may-increase-type-2-diabetes-risk#1

 

"“Although ketogenic diets are known to be healthy, our findings indicate that there may be an increased risk of insulin resistance with this type of diet that may lead to type 2 diabetes,” said Christian Wolfrum, PhD, a professor at ETH Zurich and co-author of the research.

 

Gerald Grandl, PhD, co-author of the study and professor at the German Research Center for Environmental Health, said that insulin resistance and the keto diet have been studied before.

 

Studies on mice report different things, mostly improved or maintained insulin in muscle but impaired glucose tolerance systematically or in the liver alone.

 

A century ago, doctors had recognized that fasting or starvation for several days, or strict carbohydrate restriction (without starvation), can cause something called ‘starvation diabetes’ in rodents, dogs, and humans. Now Grandl thinks that’s similar to the findings in his paper.

 

“No one will get type 2 diabetes while on keto, simply because the carb intake is not high enough to develop any form of hyperglycemia,” he said."

___________________________

 

But, I should say that I agree, Keto is not the optimal human diet. There is not really any time in evolutionary history where that much fat would have been available long term. I suppose it could still be an optimal diet, but it seems pretty unlikely. There are just not too many food that fulfill the necessary criteria and way too many foods are excluded.

 

I don't know if you read Mon Pilote's comment about the gall bladder, but that makes a lot of sense. I assume the doctors and you have considered that though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think it's the gallbladder. They did do a transabdominal ultrasound at the hospital of my gallbladder, liver and pancreas and they didn't say anything. Plus the pain is in the upper left and it would be upper right for any gallbladder issues I think.

 

I have that dentist appointment later today for my jaw cyst. My dad has chemo today too so we're both in the city. I'm just waiting around with him. I dropped off a stool sample today as well, I'm getting tested for H Pylori. I'm going to resume the taper tomorrow. The next step is to get to 200mg of phenibut by the end of next week.

 

I ended up taking some MCT oil on an empty stomach on the car ride over and I noticed some upper left abdominal discomfort so I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. It does seem to cause less issues than greasy animal fat coated with heterocyclic amines though. Anything with fat in it lingers longer in the stomach and intestinal track so it could be why I perceive fat to make the pain worse.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mamoot,

 

Great info! You mention using ketamine. Could you say more about that process? And how long did it help your symptoms?

 

thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ketamine helped pretty quickly. After about 3 days of use, about 200mg each day I felt like I had a grasp on my OCD and anxiety again, along with this feeling of well being and more optimism about the future. In order to maintain this I need to use it once a week but lately I've been using up the limited supply I get fairly quickly so I ran out again. It isn't easy for me to get because of the cost. If I could afford the medical treatments and get a script I would do that over an SNRI. Once I'm off all these meds I will probably use ketamine when I can. It honestly feels like a vacation every time I do it.

 

Edit: I wanted to add that now that I resumed tapering it did destabilize me and I lost some of the window from the ketamine. But my anxiety and depression is still much better overall. I'll try to get more after I finish tapering all this crap soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My H Pylori stool antigen sample came back negative. Now I'm wondering if Manuka honey can give you a false negative?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Based on recent clinical's my insurance company doesn't think the MRI is necessary and didn't approve it. I emailed my doctor but I doubt he'll go to bat for me. Oh well. I have a follow up on Oct. 15 at the GI again. I guess I can always get the CT scan if I think I need to but right now I'm not worried enough because the pain has been better.... not gone though. I'm on a low fat diet. I do have about 30g of MCT oil a day.

 

Not sure what is causing the pain but it is better. They say if you have any pancreatic issue or pain in that area, you can reduce the pain by leaning forward or bending forward...this actually can make the pain worse for me. Bending over sometimes made the stomach issue worse in certain areas. I can't say if bending forward helped my mid back pain though. I don't think so. Just something I noticed.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Hi Mamoot, I was reading your posts and to be honest one of the reasons that I quit keto diet was because I was diagnosed with fatty liver...I attributed it immediatly to the keto diet, I know it supposed to make you burn fat, but hmmm, maybe my metabolism is so f*cked up with taper that who knows...Plus I got palpitations and decided to say bye.if your blood work came out fine I think you have less to worry about. A trusted family dr always told me that if something was wrong, it would show in the blood.

I know this things makes us super paranoid..and I think I am going to die soon too :(

Withdrawal gives us inflammation all over our bodies, you know what, I have colitis (ibs) and my pain was like you describe it. I would blame it on the intestines...

 

I'm sorry mamooth I misread some information, could be maybe that your cartilage is swollen? or your breathing muscles are stiff? that definitely could be possible.

Much love

Blossom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Data_G.. I'm alright. Getting better overall. GI issues are still lingering but better recently. I'm sick of drinking cabbage juice twice a day but I got used to it. I'm still trying to get an MRI...I ended up appealing the denial by the insurance company, I'm not holding my breath or anything. I'm not as worried about cancer as I was. I ended up putting on some weight too. I'm way more active and going out on trails more. Climbing alot of steps too everyday. I put on some lean muscle mass since my life isn't interpreted by tapering anymore. I'm hoping all this will pass one day. I look as healthy as a horse though, I can't deny that and I'm finally starting to feel a little better. I haven't taken any drugs or meds in over a month besides cannabis. It's been six weeks since I had any phenibut, suboxone or baclofen and no memantine for 5 weeks. The only thing I think about doing is ketamine but I haven't used any since I quit the meds. It gives me a feeling of serenity and stillness. I never abused it or anything but it is pretty addicting. My signature pretty much sums up things still. I wish I was happier.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is great that you're doing so well, Mamoot. I'm kind of amazed considering the cocktail of psychotropics you were on for so long. Maybe you really are as healthy as you look :)

 

I'm about 17 months off and am still not sleeping great, but am still getting very slow improvement though. Healing was never really my strong point. I have been playing dodgeball pretty regularly and finally stopped getting light sensitivity and hyperacusis after the late games, so that is good, anyway. If I look at everything, there has been definite progress, but I'm for sure getting pretty impatient. I've got big plans I need to fulfill!

 

I hope you continue to feel better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope I'm healthy D_G. I sort of let myself go as far as dieting because of my stomach issue and feel like shit now. Just too much sugar and carbs. My fasting, morning blood glucose has been around 110mg/dL. Yesterday morning it was 114mg/dL. I also wake up 5 times a night to urinate. This all started since eating a surplus of carbs and grains. For whatever reason these sprouted grain English muffins make my stomach feel better with this strawberry jam I've been getting. Also popcorn with MCT's. I feel like I'm in a bigger fog than ever though. This diet sucks, or my eating habits just do. Unless I put in 20,000 steps a day I can't burn off these extra carbs I think. I need to eat differently. I didn't eat as much yesterday but I still ate way too much sugar. Today needs to be better. I can't go 98% in with diet, it needs to be 100% commitment to something. Problem is I can't go to keto right now. I just need to eat a balanced diet, less carbs and grains, and restrict unnecessary calories.

 

As far as every drug I took, it is hard to tell what is causing what now. I do not know if I even have benzo PAW to be honest or if it is all from the gabapentin and phenibut, and the other drugs. I tapered benzos slowly for the most part but like I told you previously there were a few drops and adjustments that were rough, along with some kindling from spiking the dosages and combining with alcohol while in tolerance.

 

Edit: as far as benzo wd, I do remember the major physical and mental sxs going away what seemed to be completely by the 8th month. As far as I remember, the benzo headaches went away as well as the severe depression after 4 months because that's when I decided to try drinking beer which backfired. There is no substitute for a long taper when it comes to benzos though. Gabapentin or phenibut, despite my haste towards the end of the taper was of no major consequence. Sure there is probably PAWS but no damage as far as I can tell. The only drug that I ever perceived to damage me in any way were those benzos. Tolerance WD was the beginning of the realization that benzos are extremely harmful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope I'm healthy D_G. I sort of let myself go as far as dieting because of my stomach issue and feel like shit now. Just too much sugar and carbs. My fasting, morning blood glucose has been around 110mg/dL. Yesterday morning it was 114mg/dL. I also wake up 5 times a night to urinate. This all started since eating a surplus of carbs and grains. For whatever reason these sprouted grain English muffins make my stomach feel better with this strawberry jam I've been getting. Also popcorn with MCT's. I feel like I'm in a bigger fog than ever though. This diet sucks, or my eating habits just do. Unless I put in 20,000 steps a day I can't burn off these extra carbs I think. I need to eat differently. I didn't eat as much yesterday but I still ate way too much sugar. Today needs to be better. I can't go 98% in with diet, it needs to be 100% commitment to something. Problem is I can't go to keto right now. I just need to eat a balanced diet, less carbs and grains, and restrict unnecessary calories.

 

As far as every drug I took, it is hard to tell what is causing what now. I do not know if I even have benzo PAW to be honest or if it is all from the gabapentin and phenibut, and the other drugs. I tapered benzos slowly for the most part but like I told you previously there were a few drops and adjustments that were rough, along with some kindling from spiking the dosages and combining with alcohol while in tolerance.

 

Edit: as far as benzo wd, I do remember the major physical and mental sxs going away what seemed to be completely by the 8th month. As far as I remember, the benzo headaches went away as well as the severe depression after 4 months because that's when I decided to try drinking beer which backfired. There is no substitute for a long taper when it comes to benzos though. Gabapentin or phenibut, despite my haste towards the end of the taper was of no major consequence. Sure there is probably PAWS but no damage as far as I can tell. The only drug that I ever perceived to damage me in any way were those benzos. Tolerance WD was the beginning of the realization that benzos are extremely harmful.

 

I seem to go in and out of a fog. For me carbs are a huge problem, which is one of the strangest components of withdrawal. It's tough to explain to people that I basically cannot eat anything with glucose in it (or I can only eat absurdly small amounts). The immediate consequences are not too bad. At worst my nervous system gets really revved up and my whole body feels kind of "stiff", like all my muscles become more active. There have been times when I've eaten carbs, fallen asleep, and woken up to a cramp in my calf. For whatever reason, my calves are affected most. They get really tight. I also tend to get foot cramps if I move them awkwardly. If I persist in eating carbs for days and weeks my sleep deteriorates, as does everything else with it. Cognitive function, motivation, general health maintenance, social activity. I try to eat what carbs I can, but it's a very small amount of total calories. I don't think avoiding Keto is a problem. I wish I didn't have to do it.

 

I agree that you should try to remain drug free for awhile to see if you feel better. I've been drug free for about 14 months now. Drug free and psychotropic free. No melatonin, chamomile, tryptophan etc. I react badly to tyrosine and phenylalanine because of the dopamine sensitivity. I basically avoid anything that can directly affect my nervous system. I try to stay clear of pot and cigarette smoke. Not crazy about it, but I did try to stand downwind when my friend was smoking the other night. It's actually surprisingly tough. Since pot was legalized here, people are just blazing up everywhere. I have a textbook on addiction medicine that has a chapter on neurotoxicity and outlines all the documented modes by which it is known to occur. Seems they generally avoid mentioning psych drugs, but you can sometimes infer their toxicity if you know their action. I can link you to it if you want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope I'm healthy D_G. I sort of let myself go as far as dieting because of my stomach issue and feel like shit now. Just too much sugar and carbs. My fasting, morning blood glucose has been around 110mg/dL. Yesterday morning it was 114mg/dL. I also wake up 5 times a night to urinate. This all started since eating a surplus of carbs and grains. For whatever reason these sprouted grain English muffins make my stomach feel better with this strawberry jam I've been getting. Also popcorn with MCT's. I feel like I'm in a bigger fog than ever though. This diet sucks, or my eating habits just do. Unless I put in 20,000 steps a day I can't burn off these extra carbs I think. I need to eat differently. I didn't eat as much yesterday but I still ate way too much sugar. Today needs to be better. I can't go 98% in with diet, it needs to be 100% commitment to something. Problem is I can't go to keto right now. I just need to eat a balanced diet, less carbs and grains, and restrict unnecessary calories.

 

As far as every drug I took, it is hard to tell what is causing what now. I do not know if I even have benzo PAW to be honest or if it is all from the gabapentin and phenibut, and the other drugs. I tapered benzos slowly for the most part but like I told you previously there were a few drops and adjustments that were rough, along with some kindling from spiking the dosages and combining with alcohol while in tolerance.

 

Edit: as far as benzo wd, I do remember the major physical and mental sxs going away what seemed to be completely by the 8th month. As far as I remember, the benzo headaches went away as well as the severe depression after 4 months because that's when I decided to try drinking beer which backfired. There is no substitute for a long taper when it comes to benzos though. Gabapentin or phenibut, despite my haste towards the end of the taper was of no major consequence. Sure there is probably PAWS but no damage as far as I can tell. The only drug that I ever perceived to damage me in any way were those benzos. Tolerance WD was the beginning of the realization that benzos are extremely harmful.

 

I seem to go in and out of a fog. For me carbs are a huge problem, which is one of the strangest components of withdrawal. It's tough to explain to people that I basically cannot eat anything with glucose in it (or I can only eat absurdly small amounts). The immediate consequences are not too bad. At worst my nervous system gets really revved up and my whole body feels kind of "stiff", like all my muscles become more active. There have been times when I've eaten carbs, fallen asleep, and woken up to a cramp in my calf. For whatever reason, my calves are affected most. They get really tight. I also tend to get foot cramps if I move them awkwardly. If I persist in eating carbs for days and weeks my sleep deteriorates, as does everything else with it. Cognitive function, motivation, general health maintenance, social activity. I try to eat what carbs I can, but it's a very small amount of total calories. I don't think avoiding Keto is a problem. I wish I didn't have to do it.

 

I agree that you should try to remain drug free for awhile to see if you feel better. I've been drug free for about 14 months now. Drug free and psychotropic free. No melatonin, chamomile, tryptophan etc. I react badly to tyrosine and phenylalanine because of the dopamine sensitivity. I basically avoid anything that can directly affect my nervous system. I try to stay clear of pot and cigarette smoke. Not crazy about it, but I did try to stand downwind when my friend was smoking the other night. It's actually surprisingly tough. Since pot was legalized here, people are just blazing up everywhere. I have a textbook on addiction medicine that has a chapter on neurotoxicity and outlines all the documented modes by which it is known to occur. Seems they generally avoid mentioning psych drugs, but you can sometimes infer their toxicity if you know their action. I can link you to it if you want.

Hey data guy, carbs are a problem for me also, but it another way. Lately my fasting blood glucose has been around 100-106. The other day I only ate like 2 servings all day and my glucose decreased to 86 fasting, I've never had issues with my glucose before, I am a slim person and my metabolism has always been great, this drugs are just screwing me in every way possible.

I try to exercise every day, but sometimes my depression won't let me.

Marijuana helps me a lot in psychological terms, but I also get a little jittery from it, so I'm staying away from it until the end of my taper.

Managing my carb intake has been very difficult, especially because like Mamoot, I have very bad GI problems, and bread and bananas help a lot with my gastritis, but they are high in carbs

Blossom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...