Tolerance withdrawal? Paradoxical Reaction? No Idea what to do - Advice needed

Hi,

 

I am taking Flurazepam.

This year I have been constantly updosing my

dosage since I felt withdrawal symptoms

or overstimulation I have not felt before a year ago when I

was taking a lower Dose.

Since it has a very long half Life I also didn't dose the Same Dose daily.

I failed switching to diazepam as I had to Go on a ridiculously high Dose to get an effect

and Ended Up being even Higher on my flurazepam.

 

Now it's been 7-8 days since I've been taking a stabile Dose trying to stabilize but I find that I have moderate withdrawal symptoms all the time.

 

Is this a paradoxical Reaction?

Can somebody advise me or Help me Out.

I was just about to Take 1/2 more Tablet right now as I slept only 3 hours.

 

Day 8 on 41,1mg.

 

I feel Like on a Constant glutamate

storm. Barely sleep and No relaxation.

 

May be I should updose or Switch to klonopin to

See If my Body is Not tolerating the high amounts of

Flurazepam Metaboliten?

 

Anything?

 

I mean my Body maybe has too much flurazepam Metabolites and reacts paradoxically.

It's been 12 days since I took a stable Dose of 41,1 but

still feel excessive overstimulation.

 

Or is it tolerance withdrawal?

What's the best way to taper here?

 

Looking for Advice.

 

Thanks

?

I Seem to be in constant moderate withdrawal and really

need to know some advice as I am Not stable and didn't even begin to taper as I have no stability at all, Just very wired.

I was on 30 mg back in the 1970s. It was discontinued in uk. It was a good night med as far as benzos go.

It jumped to 15 mg and then switched to diazepam ten bd with added Clomipramine

I don’t remember any problem.

The uk Nice guidelines suggest it is monitored by a specialist.

Are you seeing someone regularly. . ? 

I think you have developed tolerance but you must see a registered practitioner imho.

Dick

Yes, at a guess, it sounds like Tolerance... I have only been there on another med.. It took a little bit, but I responded better as I got into my taper...

Sorry, but if you want off, you might have to push on a bit at the start... -Eg Ashton style... 10% x 2wks ish..

I guess similar would apply to paradoxical..??

A thought would be to hold after say reducing 25% or so, and see how you respond, or where you stand...??

 

I hope things improve soon enough...

 

 

 

 

I was on 30 mg back in the 1970s. It was discontinued in uk. It was a good night med as far as benzos go.

It jumped to 15 mg and then switched to diazepam ten bd with added Clomipramine

I don’t remember any problem.

The uk Nice guidelines suggest it is monitored by a specialist.

Are you seeing someone regularly. . ? 

I think you have developed tolerance but you must see a registered practitioner imho.

Dick

 

By "Jump" you mean you went from 30 to 15 after longer Term use without Tapering?

Yes, at a guess, it sounds like Tolerance... I have only been there on another med.. It took a little bit, but I responded better as I got into my taper...

Sorry, but if you want off, you might have to push on a bit at the start... -Eg Ashton style... 10% x 2wks ish..

I guess similar would apply to paradoxical..??

A thought would be to hold after say reducing 25% or so, and see how you respond, or where you stand...??

 

I hope things improve soon enough...

 

 

I've been on 41,1mg for 16 days now

You mean I should reduce by 10% now for  14 days then again & hold when 25% reduced?

 

Yes I didn’t taper the 30 to 15.

But they had me on 150 of clomipramine back then but alternate nights I could not take any sedation anyway as on duty.

It was that in the even badder old days - pre Ashton.

 

Best wishes

Dick

Yes, at a guess, it sounds like Tolerance... I have only been there on another med.. It took a little bit, but I responded better as I got into my taper...

Sorry, but if you want off, you might have to push on a bit at the start... -Eg Ashton style... 10% x 2wks ish..

I guess similar would apply to paradoxical..??

A thought would be to hold after say reducing 25% or so, and see how you respond, or where you stand...??

 

I hope things improve soon enough...

 

 

I've been on 41,1mg for 16 days now

You mean I should reduce by 10% now for  14 days then again & hold when 25% reduced?

Well "Should" might be a bit of a strong word...

 

What dose you start at will obviously be your choice, as with reduction sizes and speed...

Its one thing for me to sit here and look at your numbers, but I cant feel your turmoil and chaos day by day or with any changes... I do know this can get very fkd up (sorry) and feel basically impossible, esp if there is no dose that is ok.. If you feel sitting at this dose for a while will help, then do that...

 

So in simple tapering terms, one option may be to pick a dose that you feel is about the right number from your history and isnt serious WD (possibly your current dose..??), and if you cant be somewhat stable(ish) on that dose, then start on down for a "bit", and see how it goes... After "some" time, all going well, your body may settle a little and respond a bit better.. But there are no guarantees, sorry..  There could be factors that im not even considering..?? We have to remember that not everything is WD all the time, and we are all different in many ways...

Maybe another med would suit better..?? Or just getting off med asap, -or a very slow taper... etc..

I hope things become a bit clearer if you can get more steady on a set dose...

 

 

Whatthehelol: Your in severe tolerance WD at a high amount of benzo. I think a rapid taper or CT would almost be lethal, I hate to say because it looks like you go down some and updose every 3-4 weeks or sooner without even starting to taper yet. I don't know what to say about your situation. Maybe a taper at 5% for 4 weeks or longer to start and stop going up and down on dose. Reading your signature you haven't been stable for a long time. I don't know what to say. Please get direct guidance from a experience benzo friendly doc to help you long term. Otherwise I don't know how severe your WD will be if you start tapering. I don't mean to scare you. I hope you can find support through family and have a plan in place if sx's get extreme. Hope you recover. Dalmane has a longer metabolite halflife than Valium. But its only effective for 2-4 hrs. I think your better off on klonopin.

So should I try & Switch to klonopin?

Maybe then I know If it is paradoxical?

As I think my overstimulation Starts

a few hours after I took my Dose.

But it's difficult to say as my awareness

has drastically lowered as time passed.

Whatthehelol: Your in severe tolerance WD at a high amount of benzo. I think a rapid taper or CT would almost be lethal, I hate to say because it looks like you go down some and updose every 3-4 weeks or sooner without even starting to taper yet. I don't know what to say about your situation. Maybe a taper at 5% for 4 weeks or longer to start and stop going up and down on dose. Reading your signature you haven't been stable for a long time. I don't know what to say. Please get direct guidance from a experience benzo friendly doc to help you long term. Otherwise I don't know how severe your WD will be if you start tapering. I don't mean to scare you. I hope you can find support through family and have a plan in place if sx's get extreme. Hope you recover. Dalmane has a longer metabolite halflife than Valium. But its only effective for 2-4 hrs. I think your better off on klonopin.

 

"you go down some and updose every 3-4 weeks or sooner without even starting to taper yet."

Can you tell me what this means?

"Dalmane has a longer metabolite halflife than Valium. But its only effective for 2-4 hrs. I think your better off on klonopin."

 

Would this take more time? I don't know if I can handle waiting more but if this could be a solution....I don't know.

 

I've been on a stable dose for 23 days noew.

Any more guidance?

I really think I need to start doing something now as I've gotten progressively worse over the last 6 months, every day becomes harder to handle I feel because I percieve less and less & my field of awareness diminishes.

Ok

I will stick my neck out here. I am no longer a doctor so cannot legally tell you what to do.

However I was on tranxene for twenty years and switched to diazepam with no discomfort and I would hope you could the same.

40 mg of tranxene is about 20 of diazepam.  I think you need to ask your physician to advise and prescribe diazepam in an adequate dose taken mainly at night, get stable and in a few weeks start a taper from the manual. Personally I did not need a slow switch over.

I think jumping about has thoroughly confused your CNS and you need a plan and support. I freely admit to being chaotic on my medication too—- we are vulnerable people.

I do wish you well and BB are only allowed to give general advice, your prescriber has responsibility for your ongoing care,

Yours

Dick

Dick, I'm going to see my doc about getting off meds today. I may try to switch to V and see how that goes or stay and hold on K or Seroquel. I just want to be off both meds. I know I'll suffer something. To what extent I don't know. I am stable today with little sx's.

Any suggestions before I ask doc? Currently down to .75mg K and 125mg Seroquel at night.

Trench

Please take the Seroquel slowly

I did 100- 75- 62.5- 50- 37.5 - 25 all with long holds of 8- 12 weeks except then I jumped the Seroquel

Please don’t do that it’s absolutely foul.

I would 10% from 50 or higher.

Survivingantidepressants.com say ten % max

Only idiots like me don’t look before I leap.

Wishing you well

Dick

Which are the worst of the two K or Seroquel? Is Valium sedating?

In my opinion but never used it K is the last to come off unless you switch to diazepam then that is last.

A quick google will tell you how dangerous Seroquel is!  But if you you are on it for psychosis then it’s a long discussion with your doc.

Do google Joanna Moncrieff on antipsychotic meds’ on y tube. Her conclusions are alarming.

Best wishes

Dick

 

Just for sleep for all meds.

It’s two weeks since whatthelol asked for help.

Just wondering how you are doing and bumping up the thread.

Dick

It’s two weeks since whatthelol asked for help.

Just wondering how you are doing and bumping up the thread.

Dick

Thanks Dick,

 

Some more experiences would be good... Sorry, Valium was the only med here that I used...

 

Hey Whatthelol,

Hope your Drs goes well... and you are holding up as best you can..

 

Once we have a med decided, and a start date, method and dose, you will be in bussiness...

From there it will depend on how things unfold a fair bit... 

 

Let us know how its going..

 

I have to report I'm stable now at .5mg and only 100mg Seroquel so far. I don't think I'll be severe but brian fog and increase insomnia will be the only besides the short term memory problems.

I have still no idea what to do.

 

It's been almost 30 days now since I've been on the same dose every day and I feel like things are getting worse everday.

 

I actually decided I want to do DLMT at 10% every 14 days past few days and got all the equipment...

 

But now I think whether I should switch to klonopin, maybe updose, try to get more stable and then do DLMT? At least it would be easier to do with the small benzo dosages.

 

I can barely think for myself. I don't know. Always feel slightly manic but at the same time super depressed because my sensory information processing of all stimuli gets less, not in drunk kind of way but in actuality I feel like an ant trying to process like a human being. I don't know how to explain.

 

Or it's like my awareness or perception of things is automatically turned off and I can only percieve things if I "tune in" and use focus which has very limited capacity.

 

No idea what to do.