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1st day of DLMT, sx feels like a huge cut? Is this normal?


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Today was my 1st day of my DLMT from 15 mg of valium (7.5 mg 2 x daily).  I only cut 0.03 mg of my daily dose with the liquid and took the rest in pill form, but I am having sx I haven't had in a long time, like I cut a large dose. 

Is this normal when starting a DLMT?

 

I normally take 7.5 mg in pill form 2 x daily. I have 5 mg and 2 mg pills, so I took a 5 mg and a 2 mg pill this morning to equal 7 mg.  Then this evening I also took a 5 mg and a 2 mg pill to equal 14 mg along with dissolving 1 mg in 100 ml of liquid making my daily dose 14.97 mg of valium. 

 

That is only 0.03 mg of valium less than I normally take in a day, with only a very small amount in liquid form.  But, tonight after only the 1st time of trying to dissolve this small amount in liquid, my anxiety sx shot through the roof.  I took 6 weeks to c/o from ativan and another 3 weeks to stabilize on valium, and never had any where near the wd sx I am having tonight after my first attempt to DLMT.

 

Has anyone else had this problem when starting a DLMT?

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I dont think its that common, but yes, some people report having problems...

There is a thread or survey floating around somewhere.. (if anyone hase a link or title..??)

 

Often it seems to be a fairly easy fix, given a bit of time.. Sometimes its not..

:(

 

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That is only 0.03 mg of valium less than I normally take in a day, with only a very small amount in liquid form. 

 

Then its pretty unlikely it caused your sxs.

 

Your tablets vary a lot more than that from dose-to-dose.

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That is only 0.03 mg of valium less than I normally take in a day, with only a very small amount in liquid form. 

 

Then its pretty unlikely it caused your sxs.

 

Your tablets vary a lot more than that from dose-to-dose.

"IT" being the actual tiny reduction itself, -or the change to liquid..?

:)

 

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Did you dissolve your tablet in a suitable solvent (e.g. whole fat, homogenized milk; alcohol; PG)?

Did you give yourself an adjustment period after you switched to liquid (i.e. maintained your usual dose until any symptoms from the switch “settled down”)?

 

Another question:

You indicated in your post that you made your solution with 1 mg of a tab.  Am I remembering right that Valium (at least in the U.S.) only comes in 2 mg tabs?  If so, did you split a 2 mg tab in half to get the 1 mg?  As I’m sure you know, when we split pills (even ones that are scored), there is no guarantee that that the resulting pieces are equivalent in terms of the API (active pharmaceutical ingredient) they contain.  So, you might want to consider making your next batch of solution using a whole, 2 mg tablet.

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Did you dissolve your tablet in a suitable solvent (e.g. whole fat, homogenized milk; alcohol; PG)?

Did you give yourself an adjustment period after you switched to liquid (i.e. maintained your usual dose until any symptoms from the switch “settled down”)?

:thumbsup:
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That is only 0.03 mg of valium less than I normally take in a day, with only a very small amount in liquid form. 

 

Then its pretty unlikely it caused your sxs.

 

Your tablets vary a lot more than that from dose-to-dose.

"IT" being the actual tiny reduction itself, -or the change to liquid..?

:)

 

"It" being both.  There is no way a .03mg (.2%) reduction could cause any real physical effect.  His tablet doses typically vary 8-10%.

 

And because of its long half-life, there is no way he would feel any change in dose or delivery in 24 hours.  Most folks don't feel a diazepam cut for 7 or 8 days.

 

Taking a dose in liquid form is really no different than swallowing a tablet and chasing it with a glass  of water.  A  tablet turns to liquid within seconds of reaching the  stomach anyway.  The med is absorbed and metabolized exactly the same.

 

Hundreds (maybe thousands) of folks on the BDR forum were doing liquid tapers.  The were tapering off all different benzos, some using Rx liquid, some doing vodka method, some doing milk, etc.  No one ever said anything about a problem switching to liquid.  It only seems to get reported here on BB.

 

 

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Thanks for the concern and information builder.

 

I think I may have gotten myself too worked up yesterday worrying about starting the DLMT, which could have caused my nervousness sx.

 

It was also the 1st time I took a 5 mg pill with 2 mg pills.  Although they were made by the same manufacturer, they could have came from different factories, which could possibly have given them different % of active ingredients.  Just a thought.

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Today was my 1st day of my DLMT from 15 mg of valium (7.5 mg 2 x daily).  I only cut 0.03 mg of my daily dose with the liquid and took the rest in pill form, but I am having sx I haven't had in a long time, like I cut a large dose. 

Is this normal when starting a DLMT?

 

I normally take 7.5 mg in pill form 2 x daily. I have 5 mg and 2 mg pills, so I took a 5 mg and a 2 mg pill this morning to equal 7 mg.  Then this evening I also took a 5 mg and a 2 mg pill to equal 14 mg along with dissolving 1 mg in 100 ml of liquid making my daily dose 14.97 mg of valium. 

 

That is only 0.03 mg of valium less than I normally take in a day, with only a very small amount in liquid form.  But, tonight after only the 1st time of trying to dissolve this small amount in liquid, my anxiety sx shot through the roof.  I took 6 weeks to c/o from ativan and another 3 weeks to stabilize on valium, and never had any where near the wd sx I am having tonight after my first attempt to DLMT.

 

Has anyone else had this problem when starting a DLMT?

 

Others have reported identical problems. Some folks may be experiencing anticipatory anxiety, some may have mixed solution improperly, some may have metabolization issue or whatever, who knows...try again...

 

What I would do is try making a less dilute solution, like this:

1mg=10ml

Put 1- 2mg tablet in 2ml vodka add 18 ml of distilled water. Remove your dose from this less dilute solution. To reduce .03mg (total reduction)  remove .15ml 2x a day.

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Thanks for the concern and information builder.

 

I think I may have gotten myself too worked up yesterday worrying about starting the DLMT, which could have caused my nervousness sx.

 

 

.

 

...and I would bet that's the problem.  And its a pretty common problem.

 

Glad you've gotten yourself calmed down.  You'll do just fine.

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Bella Amis,

 

Thank you for the help, but I am still a bit confused.

You say:  What I would do is try making a less dilute solution, like this:

1mg=10ml

Put 1- 2mg tablet in 2ml vodka add 18 ml of distilled water. Remove your dose from this less dilute solution. To reduce .03mg (total reduction)  remove .15ml 2x a day.

 

I understand how to make a 20 ml solution from a 2 mg pill, but I don't know what you mean when you say remove .15ml 2x a day.  If you mean to make two 20 ml batches a day by using two 2mg pills, then I do not have that many 2 mg pills to last since I also have got 5 mg pills.

 

My script is for 2-5mg pills twice daily along with 3-2mg pills twice daily, but I only take a total of 15 mg daily, which is why I split one of the 2 mg pills.

Also, is it more tolerable taking a less diluted solution per dose than a more diluted solution?

Again, thanks for all the replies, I know I will finally figure this out.  I may just be a pain in your butts until I do.

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Bella Amis,

 

Thank you for the help, but I am still a bit confused.

You say:  What I would do is try making a less dilute solution, like this:

1mg=10ml

Put 1- 2mg tablet in 2ml vodka add 18 ml of distilled water. Remove your dose from this less dilute solution. To reduce .03mg (total reduction)  remove .15ml 2x a day.

 

I understand how to make a 20 ml solution from a 2 mg pill, but I don't know what you mean when you say remove .15ml 2x a day.  If you mean to make two 20 ml batches a day by using two 2mg pills, then I do not have that many 2 mg pills to last since I also have got 5 mg pills.

 

My script is for 2-5mg pills twice daily along with 3-2mg pills twice daily, but I only take a total of 15 mg daily, which is why I split one of the 2 mg pills.

Also, is it more tolerable taking a less diluted solution per dose than a more diluted solution?

Again, thanks for all the replies, I know I will finally figure this out.  I may just be a pain in your butts until I do.

 

Here is even easier way with out splitting a 2mg tablet and using your 5mg tablets for the solution:

 

10ml=1mg solution using 5mg tablets:

1 - 5mg tablet V + 10ml cheap vodka(80proof) + 40ml distilled water

                                                  OR

1 - 5mg tablet V + 1ml everclear (190proof)+ 49ml distilled water

This solution will last about 5 days

 

Using the above 10ml=1mg solution:

 

Dose #1= 1-5mg tablet + 1-2mg tablet + 4.85ml(.485mg)= 7.485mg

Dose #2= 1-5mg tablet + 1-2mg tablet +4.85ml(.485mg)= 7.485mg

For a  total daily dose 14.97mg

 

There really is no need to use 100ml water for a 2mg tablet especially with Valium. Less chance for error using a 10ml=1mg solution.

 

With Valium you actually can successfully taper using a 1ml =1mg solution.

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That is only 0.03 mg of valium less than I normally take in a day, with only a very small amount in liquid form. 

 

Then its pretty unlikely it caused your sxs.

 

Your tablets vary a lot more than that from dose-to-dose.

"IT" being the actual tiny reduction itself, -or the change to liquid..?

:)

 

"It" being both.  There is no way a .03mg (.2%) reduction could cause any real physical effect.  His tablet doses typically vary 8-10%.

 

And because of its long half-life, there is no way he would feel any change in dose or delivery in 24 hours.  Most folks don't feel a diazepam cut for 7 or 8 days.

 

Taking a dose in liquid form is really no different than swallowing a tablet and chasing it with a glass  of water.  A  tablet turns to liquid within seconds of reaching the  stomach anyway.  The med is absorbed and metabolized exactly the same.

 

Hundreds (maybe thousands) of folks on the BDR forum were doing liquid tapers.  The were tapering off all different benzos, some using Rx liquid, some doing vodka method, some doing milk, etc.  No one ever said anything about a problem switching to liquid.  It only seems to get reported here on BB.

I can certainally agree that I dont think it is the actual reduction..  I cant say what it actually is, but it seems that something can happen that is less than pleasant as a small number of people first transition to liquid... Anticipatiry anxiety could well be a factor for some.. But there are a number of people that are confident to rule that out in their situation...

 

Ignorance of a problem isnt a solution, -It can be dangerous.. But I appreciate that speculation can be just as bad and snowball...

 

The main message I would like to get across is that in nearly all situations I have seen/read, -It seems to be a problem that resolves pretty quick with a gentle approach... -or a subsequent attempt..

So JoJo, dont give up... Its well worth it, Imo... But also, IF you feel strongly that it isnt psychological, -Dont assume that your going mad...!!

 

I hope you get on track in no time at all, and never look back..

I never retried liquid myself because Pill splitting had other advantages in my particular situation (multiple med wd)...  But it would have been quite handy and made things easier, particularly at low dose.. 

 

My best wishes..

:)

 

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Thanks Cantfly,

 

I tried the exact same method tonight as last night, but with much much less sx.  Last night they lasted about 3 hours and tonight it only lasted about an hour, so it is getting better.  I am starting to agree that I need to just give it more time for my body to adjust to liquid even if it is a small amount.  I was also not near as nervous about taking the liquid tonight as the 1st night.  Hopefully by the end of the week, all will be back to normal and I will have my first week of tapering behind me.  I just wish I could find something that makes the taste of the liquid better!! Nasty!!

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Thanks Cantfly,

 

I tried the exact same method tonight as last night, but with much much less sx.  Last night they lasted about 3 hours and tonight it only lasted about an hour, so it is getting better.  I am starting to agree that I need to just give it more time for my body to adjust to liquid even if it is a small amount.  I was also not near as nervous about taking the liquid tonight as the 1st night.  Hopefully by the end of the week, all will be back to normal and I will have my first week of tapering behind me.  I just wish I could find something that makes the taste of the liquid better!! Nasty!!

Do you have a favourite drink you can drop your dose in.. eg OJ..??  It may sven help the situation...?? -just not grapefruit juice, I hear...

I think you will do great..!!

:)

 

 

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Do you have a favourite drink you can drop your dose in.. eg OJ..??  It may sven help the situation...?? -just not grapefruit juice, I hear...

I think you will do great..!!

:)

 

:thumbsup:

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Sorry to intrude here but something similar happened to me and I was hoping to get some insight.  I dissolve my med under my tongue and have since I started (20+!tears ago)  When I tried the liquid I was not nervous at all and so excited and confident with a great plan.  I went into severe symptoms after the first day.  I’m convinced that the medicine is metabolized differently under the tongue as opposed to ingesting a liquid.  I’m progressing fairly well with my scale.  Any thoughts or ideas?  Im on Klonopin and while it’s going well, if there’s an easier way I’ll listen to that too. Thanks!
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Sorry to intrude here but something similar happened to me and I was hoping to get some insight.  I dissolve my med under my tongue and have since I started (20+!tears ago)  When I tried the liquid I was not nervous at all and so excited and confident with a great plan.  I went into severe symptoms after the first day.  I’m convinced that the medicine is metabolized differently under the tongue as opposed to ingesting a liquid.  I’m progressing fairly well with my scale.  Any thoughts or ideas?  Im on Klonopin and while it’s going well, if there’s an easier way I’ll listen to that too. Thanks!

All I can say is I dissolved under the tongue quite often with the split pieces, and while my mind and taste buds thought it an advantage (in the moment), I dont think it made any real difference... I was well below any therapeautic effect by then...

 

But liquid, from a pretty stable position, -with no reduction (2v) turned me inside out... I have missed tablets for longer than that with minimal effect...

 

I sometimes wonder if what happens to some of us isnt more closely aligned with the principals of homeopathy or the like... ??

All guesses... :(

The good news is that it seems to me that its manageable and tempory, in nearly all instances I have read... -Not that it is insignificant by any account...

Its not a new thing, I have read mention of liquid problems from over 6yrs ago...

 

Kinda wish I had done some experimenting now...

 

 

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JoJo

I just finished posting about this same problem when I saw your post.

I made a solution of Valium using propylene glycol. I cut only .02 ml, for 7 nights now.

My symptoms were ramped up on day one. Now after 7 nights I’m a mess with full blown wd symptoms. Anxiety, not anticipatory, has not let up. It’s the face burning, chemical anxiety that causes nausea. I have head pressure and migraine that Tylenol and Advil won’t touch. All symptoms a go!!

 

There’s got to be something to the liquid microtaper that some of us can’t handle. Since crossing over to Valium in October, this is the worst I’ve felt and it’s not been pretty. I didn’t feel this bad making 1

or 1/2 mg cuts.

 

Please keep us informed how it goes for you. Thanks

Lg

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JoJo

I just finished posting about this same problem when I saw your post.

I made a solution of Valium using propylene glycol. I cut only .02 ml, for 7 nights now.

My symptoms were ramped up on day one. Now after 7 nights I’m a mess with full blown wd symptoms. Anxiety, not anticipatory, has not let up. It’s the face burning, chemical anxiety that causes nausea. I have head pressure and migraine that Tylenol and Advil won’t touch. All symptoms a go!!

 

There’s got to be something to the liquid microtaper that some of us can’t handle. Since crossing over to Valium in October, this is the worst I’ve felt and it’s not been pretty. I didn’t feel this bad making 1

or 1/2 mg cuts.

 

Please keep us informed how it goes for you. Thanks

Lg

Sorry to hear...

How often did u make 1/2mg cuts..?? -etc...

 

 

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Cantfly

I have just been using a pill cutter. I crossed to Valium in October and went from 19 to 11 mg in 3 mo.

Then I got pneumonia and winter viruses. So, antibiotics which complicated things and ramped up symptoms. I held for 3 mo. Tried the pharmacy liquid. That didn’t work. After a couple days, I updosed back to 11. Held for another couple weeks. Then made my own solution with PG. That doesn’t seem to be working. Tonight my husband is cutting and weighing. He talked me out of going back up in dose. But not tapering anymore yet. If this doesn’t work, I’m going back to cutting 1/2 mg as long as I feel like poo anyway.

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PS. Cantfly, you did a fairly fast Valium taper. How do you feel now?

Like me, you have multiple drugs to deal with. Hope you’re doing ok.

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PS. Cantfly, you did a fairly fast Valium taper. How do you feel now?

Like me, you have multiple drugs to deal with. Hope you’re doing ok.

sorry, I just caught up on your other thread... I feel for you, It can be so hard pulling out of what can feel like a hopeless mess... But you will find a way...

 

Yes, I dropped fast at the start, but I had gone up fast too... Its a bit deceptive at a glance.. I also reinstated another med... WD propper started a bit above about 5v, and I had to slow as I got lower, Finishing at about 1v over the last yr to achieve my goals...

 

Im doing great all considered, The V is well behind me now, and my body is responding much better to some pretty significant changes as I prepare to taper my final med...  Still a ways to go though...

 

I will try to follow your other thread..

:)

 

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Thanks for the input, i think you might be right about it being temporary.  I didn’t give it long enough to really test that.
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