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I'm shocked at Dr Peter Breggin's ideas


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I had Dr. Peter Breggin in high regard for his attempts to reform psychiatry and reduce the use of psychiatric drugs, for his good understanding of the issues of dependency and withdrawal, for his defense of the role of love and empathy in curing the so-called psiquiatric "disorders", as well as by his frontal denunciation of the dubious role that the pharmaceutical industry has in these issues and the interests that control it.

 

However, yesterday, I started listening to a podcast of his show and what a disappointment! He had a guest whom he praised a lot, whose name I don't remember, and they were discussing a very strange question: the "problem" that women are increasingly dominating academy, and that men are entering and graduating at a slower pace. Both had a hyper-retrograde view of gender issues.

 

They said there is an ongoing "attack to our boys masculinity" (?!!!).

 

Another example, at one point the guest asked, with much agreement from Dr. Peter Breggin, if in the future there were fewer men with academic degrees "with whom would women that have a PhD marry"?

 

Yes, a total nonsense!

 

Note: For me it is clear that women with a PhD can marry any man, with or without a PhD or any other academic degree. Or with another woman, in the countries / states that allow gay marriage. Or they may not marry and live with someone, or not. Just choose!

 

These absurd ideas led me to question Dr. Breggin's common sense and his ability to contribute to sensitive areas as psychiatry. Particularly because psychiatric disorders often have social implications and roots, and I do not identify AT ALL with the social vision of Dr. Peter Breggin.

 

I'm sad and would like to hear from other (progressive!) people.

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He's NOT progressive in any way other than his confontational stance on psychiatry.

 

I think he was carried by Faux News? as a regular spokesman regarding 'mental health' issues.

 

Oddly, the 'right' has more of a clue about the dangers of psychiatry (threats to 'liberty')...it's all those helpers on the so-called left ya gotta watch out for.

 

 

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and I do not identify AT ALL with the social vision of Dr. Peter Breggin.

 

The problem here is that this isn't a "social vision", it is science.

 

I haven't listened to this podcast but I seriously doubt that anyone said anything about taking away women's right to choose if or who they marry or anything of the sort. Studies have shown that women generally choose not to marry down when it comes to education or socioeconomic status. So when women pursue advanced degrees they start to price themselves out of the marriage market. The more money they make and the more educated they are the fewer men they find attractive. It is extremely disingenuous to blame men for this or to blame scientists for pointing to the data that supports it.

 

You have been conditioned to believe that any effort to support men is an attempt to attack women, but that simply isn't the case. People are free to make whatever choices they want but they aren't free from the consequences of those choices. At the end of the day this is all biology and biology rules- nature will always find a way to ensure that our species survives.

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'Studies have shown that women generally choose not to marry down when it comes to education or socioeconomic status. So when women pursue advanced degrees they start to price themselves out of the marriage market. The more money they make and the more educated they are the fewer men they find attractive. It is extremely disingenuous to blame men for this or to blame scientists for pointing to the data that supports it.' there is more to it than that, but as a generalization it's true.

 

These days, finding that 'someone' is often like shopping for the best possible product - rather than falling in love with someone with whom you are compatible.

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These days, finding that 'someone' is often like shopping for the best possible product - rather than falling in love with someone with whom you are compatible.

 

It always has been and always will be "shopping for the best product". You can throw all of the social pleasantries, social politics and government interference at relationships you want but biology doesn't care about any of that stuff. Our genes are programmed to procreate, survive and thrive so it shouldn't come as any shock when the studies show that men prefer certain things in women and vice-versa.

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Magnesi- I agree with you.  Stuff like this is really setting women back.  It sounds similar to what Jordan Peterson says, and for some unknown reason, he is very popular right now. 
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Magnesi- I agree with you.  Stuff like this is really setting women back.  It sounds similar to what Jordan Peterson says, and for some unknown reason, he is very popular right now.

 

Jordan Peterson initially became popular because he refused to back down to social politics bullies and he remains popular because he encourages people to improve their lives while speaking cadidly in a world that insists on trying to censor any kind of opinions that do not promote the popular narrative.

 

Maybe you can you point to something he has said that would set women back?

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following.  Peter Breggin is an old man, in his 80's? and was raised in a culture where women stayed home with the kids and the men provided. 
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I'd say that Dr. Breggin is certainly entitled to his opinions on the issues that are not a part of his trade or somewhat tangential to it. And in this day and age, he has to mix things up and widen things up a bit and talk about different subjects simply because most people have an attention span of 3 seconds and would start yawning if the only thing he talked about were the dangers of psychiatric drugs. A lot of people aren't terribly interested in this subject until they end up on the receiving end of the psychiatric drug withdrawal battering ram.

 

But if he mixes in gender issues and other relevant topics and how it all plays out together, he's guaranteed a larger, more interested audience, even if he ends up being at odds with some of his listeners. I suppose there are people who read his materials early on and steer clear of the dangers, but I would bet that most people usually find his work once they're in throes of a hard-core psych med withdrawal.

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These days, finding that 'someone' is often like shopping for the best possible product - rather than falling in love with someone with whom you are compatible.

 

It always has been and always will be "shopping for the best product". You can throw all of the social pleasantries, social politics and government interference at relationships you want but biology doesn't care about any of that stuff. Our genes are programmed to procreate, survive and thrive so it shouldn't come as any shock when the studies show that men prefer certain things in women and vice-versa.

 

Not quite. Often, especially in case of online dating women will shop for the best possible candidate. Some women go as far as to dismiss all possible candidates in search of a better one till they are in their fourties and are less attractive.

Let's not forget that once upon a time our parents chose our marriage partners, or we simply fell in love with the person we wanted to spend the rest of our lives with.

 

 

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I guess it is not a debate about about whether women are starting to dominate higher education but whether men have a right to be concerned about it?
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Not quite. Often, especially in case of online dating women will shop for the best possible candidate. Some women go as far as to dismiss all possible candidates in search of a better one till they are in their fourties and are less attractive.

 

Everyone is always shopping for the best candidate. Period. People certainly settle for someone less than ideal at times but make no mistake, everyone is always looking for the best deal they can get. There is no other way for it to work.

 

I guess it is not a debate about about whether women are starting to dominate higher education but whether men have a right to be concerned about it?

 

It isn't about any of this. I listened to both podcasts. It is about the very real problem of boys being DRUGGED (sound familiar anyone???). It is also about the way boys are treated by society in general.

 

Of course as soon as the modern feminists hear of anyone advocating for any type of problem men or boys might have all they are able to hear is someone beating an imaginary drum for the patriarchy. Women are afforded every right in modern western society as men are and in many ways they receive preferential treatment, yet when someone starts talking about the need to address the issue of boys falling behind in school and such and citing scientific studies that show very real societal problems that are being caused by the new religion of equity at all costs it becomes all about THEM.

 

We can't talk about boys problems because doing so marginalizes women! That makes a whole lot of sense, now doesn't it?

 

I think that's gonna be it for me on this topic because honestly it pisses me off to even think about it. A portion of the population in the western world will gladly throw 50% of their fellow humans under the bus to protect their victim/oppressor narrative. I'm ashamed to think that I have to live in a society where that kind of selfishness is common.

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I can certainly relate to the part of the betrayal of the father being gone (affairs, divorce) can sometimes actually feel worse than the father dying. I certainly felt much more embarrassed and hurt by how my father left when I was a teen. I honestly thought at times that it would have been easier to handle had my father died while I was that age. It actually crossed my mind several times, realizing that there is more closure that way than there is with the father who sort of was there for me, but truly wasn't. I've always secretly envied those people who were brought up by both parents in a marriage full of love and respect. I feel like I had to work three times as hard to compete with such folks in this world.
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Since some of us are airing personal experiences, whether we like it or not will they will be seen as some sort of generalizations on the tendencies of the two genders in regard to parenthood. I did have a Father who died when I was 13, and a mother who believed every male in her life was out to kill her. She did pretty well most of the time and this absolute paranoia only appeared infrequently She was pretty functional decent parent with a seemingly near schizophrenic underlying condition, yet trips off the deep tend to make a lasting impression even on the non pathological times. Needless to say I was done with having a supportive parent at age 13.

 

LorazepamFree I hope this does not come off as a rebuttal against you personally, it is certainly not what I am intending. I am sorry for your pain as a child from your father. Maybe some of my problems from my childhood have effected my objectivity toward the gender relations issue. Who knows

 

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Studies have shown that women generally choose not to marry down when it comes to education or socioeconomic status. So when women pursue advanced degrees they start to price themselves out of the marriage market. The more money they make and the more educated they are the fewer men they find attractive. It is extremely disingenuous to blame men for this or to blame scientists for pointing to the data that supports it.

 

You have been conditioned to believe that any effort to support men is an attempt to attack women, but that simply isn't the case. People are free to make whatever choices they want but they aren't free from the consequences of those choices. At the end of the day this is all biology and biology rules- nature will always find a way to ensure that our species survives.

 

 

:clap: here, here!

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I must admit that I do like the Andy Griffith show, which was taped back in the early sixties.  The women were teachers and housekeepers, like Aunt Bee, at home taking care of the home and Opie and Andy.  Another lady was a store clerk.  The men went out and worked, etc. 
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Since some of us are airing personal experiences, whether we like it or not will they will be seen as some sort of generalizations on the tendencies of the two genders in regard to parenthood. I did have a Father who died when I was 13, and a mother who believed every male in her life was out to kill her. She did pretty well most of the time and this absolute paranoia only appeared infrequently She was pretty functional decent parent with a seemingly near schizophrenic underlying condition, yet trips off the deep tend to make a lasting impression even on the non pathological times. Needless to say I was done with having a supportive parent at age 13.

 

LorazepamFree I hope this does not come off as a rebuttal against you personally, it is certainly not what I am intending. I am sorry for your pain as a child from your father. Maybe some of my problems from my childhood have effected my objectivity toward the gender relations issue. Who knows

 

No, I don't take this as a rebuttal at all. Thanks for sharing what you went through, MattNapa. Gender relations issues have always been a minefield because of so many different beliefs, opinions and lived experiences. It can lead to tense discussions. Not something that's easy to discuss  while in a bad withdrawal state.

 

But I do like that these podcasts touch upon the issues of trauma in general, and I think trauma tends to get medicated a lot in our society, and it's not really recognized by the mental health system for what it is, which is something that needs to be healed and not buried or just diagnosed as some sort of mental illness that needs to be medicated for life. I think we all carry lots of trauma and wounds. I surely buried mine. I don't think it's abnormal to bury it, but I am convinced I needed to process at some point, because life eventually got unbearable.

 

Sorry for the pain you've experienced., MattNapa. I'd say that we've done well with the cards we've been dealt, in spite of these horrible detours.

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