The Medical World

The medical world

This isn’t necessarily about this forum, but about the medical world in general.

I think most people don’t know how the medical world really works, how doctors think, about the iatrogenic damage doctors cause, the medical errors they make. Nor do most people know much about human physiology, although that is less surprising.

But why ? Why doesn’t that change ? Why do the same errors have to be made over and over ?

Just a few pointers.

What doctors actually study, and what they go through to become a specialist or a GP. A certain dehumanization that takes place. For lots of reasons. For example, they have to cut in bodies, dead or alive. They have to make snap decisions about life and death. A lot of their training, in particular drug prescribing and related diagnostics is sponsored by the pharmaceutical industry, which prefers treating rather than curing. The medical hierarchy they experience during their training and practice. That very old patterns tend to continue in the medical world.

The medicalization of human grief, sadness and mental distress.

Doctors have a very limited knowledge about human physiology. They usually restrict themselves to diagnosing and treating medical pathologies, that is formal disease and organ pathology. What is important to know, they work a certain way because ‘they learned their job that way’.  Just like a plumber. Sure, it’s a responsibility but that’s not so special.

There are some practical pointers. ‘The way they learned their job’. Sometimes they seem like preprogrammed robots. Knowlegde can only flow one way, from the doctor to the patient. Often, the  default factory settings cannot be changed. Not really. They will often cover up formal medical errors, rarely diagnose iatrogenic damage correctly. A worldwide phenomenon is that all medical doctors are ‘colleagues’, which has all sorts of connotations. Often, they will copy each other’s opinions and diagnoses.

The ‘God complex’. Easy as a reference, the doctor as God. What the doctor doesn’t know doesn’t exist, if the doctor doesn’t ‘see’ anything there is nothing or it’s mental, the doctor does not fail and certainly does not make medical errors.

The environment they operate in. Their colleagues. The unholy combination of ‘state’, ‘insurance’, doctor, patient. What about the ideal of the ‘patient’ as a knowledgeable consumer of a doctor’s service, with his own money ?

For a peek into the medical world, one could read ‘How Doctors Think’ by Jerome Groopman. You have to keep in mind it was written by a doctor, so it has its limitations.

This is the age of the internet. Many people are highly educated. But why do the old patterns have to be continued ? Why not a fundamental change ?

I’m not active on any social media. I could post this somewhere else on the internet, but I’d be one of the billions of voices.

Liberty,

This is a very iffy topic, at best.  That's because this forum is not an anti-doctor forum nor an anti-medication forum, and our rules don't allow wide generalizations about doctors or the medical profession.  We've made this clear many times, this quote is from Colin, our founder and the forum owner:

This is a revision of an existing policy document. The previous, deprecated version of this document can be found here: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=55794.0. This update includes information about the posting of information originating from Scientology and associated groups.

 

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Updated: 2013-01-29

 

Anti-doctor, Anti-psychiatrist and Anti-medicine Comments:

 

Many of our members report negative experiences with doctors, psychiatrists, the pharmaceutical industry, health regulators, or the medical profession as a whole. While we do not wish to outlaw comments about how members feel let down and mistreated in their personal medical care, you must keep your feelings and comments in perspective.

 

Some of our members are vulnerable and might be rather suggestible when they arrive at this website and forum. Your comments might have undue and unintended results upon some of those reading them. Your own experiences with the medical profession are precisely this – your own experiences. It is the view of BenzoBuddies that it would be irresponsible for members to not seek or ignore medical advice from their doctors, psychiatrists and other healthcare providers. Of course, doctors do make mistakes, and there is much confusion and misinformation about the potential side and withdrawal effects of benzodiazepines. But if you are dissatisfied with the advice or service provided by your doctor, you should probably seek the opinion of another doctor. Medical advice from your doctor should not be replaced by the suggestions of anonymous people on the Internet – this is plain common sense. You should discuss with your doctor any ideas and suggestions made by members of this forum and website.

 

Few of our members are medical professionals, but even their advice should be treated with due caution. Firstly, we do not screen our members, so there is no way of verifying their medical credentials. Secondly, they cannot know your full and true medical history, so cannot make sound 'diagnoses'. Thirdly, if you are skeptical of the medical profession and/or dissatisfied with the performance of your doctor or psychiatrist, how can medical advice from someone on the Internet be more trusted than the advice from a real-world and verifiable doctor? Your doctor is your medical caregiver, not BenzoBuddies, nor any other support website.

 

By suggesting that others should not trust doctors, psychiatrists and the medical profession as a whole, you potentially endanger other members and visitors to this forum. BenzoBuddies is not an anti-doctor or anti-psychiatry website. Our members need their doctors, not only to supply them with prescriptions for benzodiazepines, but to meet their other medical needs too. In short, you are free to describe the shortcomings in your own medical treatment, but make clear that you are writing about your personal experiences; do not spread general anti-doctor or anti-psychiatrist propaganda.

 

Occasionally, members link to Scientology anti-psychiatry propaganda (usually because they have been duped). The posting of anti-psychiatry propaganda at BenzoBuddies is not allowed. Because of the obfuscation tactics employed by Scientology, all content posted to BenzoBuddies we identify as Scientology-propaganda, or any so-called 'information' originating from Scientology, will be deleted. We ask members to help us by wearing their 'critical thinking hats' when they come across anti-psychiatry comments at BenzoBuddies (please report such instances), and if in any doubt, please contact a member of the team in advance of posting information, a link or video. Because many of our members rely upon the professional help of psychiatrists and therapists, information regarding psychiatry or psychiatric practice originating from Scientology or the Citizens Commission on Human Rights (or any other Scientology front group) is expressly disallowed at this forum.

megan918,

It is intended to be critical, and calls for reflection. I don't see how it is 'anti doctor' or 'anti medication'. We are not supposed to adopt a 'doctor knows best', 'blind faith' approach, do we ? In essence, it calls for agency of the patient/consumer.

Hi Liberty

Thanks for the articulate post.

“...What the doctor doesn’t know doesn’t exist.”

This is unfortunate.

We also understand so much more about neural circuit dynamics and plasticity, but it’s not being applied to our understanding of benzodiazaphine withdrawal, tolerance and post withdrawal syndrome, or to chronic syndromes like ME and CFS.  The application is needed most urgently in the clinical setting.

Hi Liberty

 

Thanks for the articulate post.

 

“...What the doctor doesn’t know doesn’t exist.”

 

This is unfortunate.

 

We also understand so much more about neural circuit dynamics and plasticity, but it’s not being applied to our understanding of benzodiazaphine withdrawal, tolerance and post withdrawal syndrome, or to chronic syndromes like ME and CFS.  The application is needed most urgently in the clinical setting.

ABSOLUTELY. I agree with this wholeheartedly. Doctors CANNOT continue on the way they've been doing. The unfortunate thing, too, is that there are so many more drugs that directly affect the delicate nervous system. To keep telling a patient that "it's all in your head" or "you have GAD" or "you have anxiety" is absolutely no explanation at all. To keep prescribing pill after pill is no answer either.

Hi Liberty

 

Thanks for the articulate post.

 

“...What the doctor doesn’t know doesn’t exist.”

 

This is unfortunate.

 

We also understand so much more about neural circuit dynamics and plasticity, but it’s not being applied to our understanding of benzodiazaphine withdrawal, tolerance and post withdrawal syndrome, or to chronic syndromes like ME and CFS.  The application is needed most urgently in the clinical setting.

 

ABSOLUTELY. I agree with this wholeheartedly. Doctors CANNOT continue on the way they've been doing. The unfortunate thing, too, is that there are so many more drugs that directly affect the delicate nervous system. To keep telling a patient that "it's all in your head" or "you have GAD" or "you have anxiety" is absolutely no explanation at all. To keep prescribing pill after pill is no answer either.

“...To keep prescribing pill after pill.....”

I agree Terry.  The protocols instituted during this era of Modern medicine (1950-present) are somewhat biased towards this model of chronic dosing regimens.  I don’t have a lot of experience with psychotropics outside of the Benzodiazaphine, but the chronic nature of dosing protocols seems to go beyond psychotropics.    It does make for very strong big pharma revenues!

The neuroscience tells us how to properly dose the CNS affecting drugs if they must be used chronically and long term.  This helps avoid or mitigate the some of the negative affects (including increased anxiety itself!) that these types of drugs can have on the CNS over time.

It can be a self perpetuating feedback loop....

This is unfortunate as well 

... 'iffy topic' ... agreed + understood.

just my thoughts on 'context' -- if you will allow me to share my story... as BB seems to exist b/c of the 'iffy-ness' of 'The Medical World'....

if we all had 'proper' medical advice + care, Re BZ + AD... we'd not be flooding BB w/ hundreds of posts of daily misery + support.... instead... we'd be living our lives in relative health + happiness, i suspect.

so... my story is 'iffy'... + i do try my best to keep my feelings + comments in perspective....

...but is this topic not so different from the highly warranted BB warnings RE Detox, CT + Rapid Taper dangers....?  ...ironically, often done / forced in hospitals, or by GPs, Psychs, etc....?

...+ some members seem to suffer horrible damage.... yet others don't suffer at all...?  ...uncharted territory.

so.... i am now a painfully disabled victim of benzo + AD-related iatrogenic harm.... due to multiple medical professionals, specialists, ER -- whom i trusted to 'know best' -- in 2 different countries.

in fact -- ER literally forced the 1st benzo into my mouth -- against my will -- as well as a shot of Tramadol -- against my will.

ER even sent me home w/a few extra 'benzos'.... for good measure... yet never said a word about what either of the medications were -- nor why they forced me to take them -- nor what i should expect as SXS, WD....etc....

i had 'blind faith' that ER would provide the care i required -- my body had seized up from the neck down + i could not move -- after being forced CT off Baclofen by a 'trusted' GP.

i was Rx'd Baclofen by an unfamiliar GP who did not tell me what it was..... nor how it was to be used only short term... nor tapered up + down... nor about WD or SXS.... nor did the medication come w/an information leaflet.... nor did the Pharmacy provide their own verbal or printed info.

i had to find out via the internet. but it was too late.

i came to BB already vulnerable.... due to this iatrogenic harm.... i was always a compliant patient..... + always sought out other GPs or specialists if in doubt... but who only continued to further disable me + then abandon me... over the past 3 yrs.

then i thought i'd found solace in the Updosing Support group -- as that's what my last GP + Psych had advised me -- after declaring i'd become 'tolerant' to Clonazepam.... "go up to 4mg -- you'll be worse off the drug than on it", they said.

....yet i was not so lucky.... + many of us have learned... perhaps via Ashton ? ....as well as verified by members' experiences, perhaps...? ....that Updosing when in 'relative tolerance' does not help -- but makes the situation much worse + the patient suffer more harm.... + in my case -- disabled me. 

my GP's Pharmacist called + begged me to ignore the GP's advice to Updose... but i didn't know who to believe...?  who to trust?  who had more authority?

+ this happened yet again, with Lyrica -- Rx'd by newest GP -- but warned by another Pharmacy to avoid.... yet again... i followed GP + Psych's orders... + suffered a DVT, among many other horrific, lingering SXS...

...so here ends my genuine attempt to contextualize + reconcile my own 'real-world' medical care.... + the many members / patients, like me -- who are on BB -- mainly b/c of suffering similarly harmful or ill-advised medical treatment.

not many members seem to be here b/c they chose to abuse these drugs.

i know my story is 'iffy'...  but this IS my story... + i still need my Rx to taper...unless I decide give up + CT or go to Detox....  such is my dilemma -- since my 'real-world' medical care has abandoned me. 

...i have found so much support here + very grateful for BB. 

thank you for reading + hopefully allowing me to share + understanding my reasons for posting on this 'iffy topic'.

...with much respect + gratitude to all x