Please Help! Need Clonazepam Plan & Advice

Hi all, like most I've been terrified to taper for years. My doc is not ideal. She thinks you can just cut the .25 pills in half and be done in a few months. She also refuses to crossover to Valium. Her reason being that she was trained Valium should only be used in an inpatient setting.

I'm at a point where my tolerance and interdose withdrawal is so bad, I might as well be tapering. I've developed vertigo and sometimes I'll wake up in the middle of the night in complete terror.

I've been on the same dose since day 1...

2 mg/day 1 mg in exact 12 hour intervals

I was looking for a method on YouTube and found someone who said to just dissolve your daily dose into 300ml of water and reduce by 1ml/day. She also recommended dividing the 300ml into 3-4 doses to help interdose withdrawal. My doc and I have practiced dividing the morning dose but I've never been able to touch the night dose because I'm scared. I have a fear of waking up in terror with a seizure. I'm scared.

For a long-term user, how does the above plan sound? Will dividing my dose help with the interdose withdrawal?

What would a plan using vodka to dissolve the tablets look like? Is it true milk can metabolize some of the ingredients leading to negative side effects?

Thanks!

Hi all, like most I've been terrified to taper for years. My doc is not ideal. She thinks you can just cut the .25 pills in half and be done in a few months. She also refuses to crossover to Valium. Her reason being that she was trained Valium should only be used in an inpatient setting.

 

I'm at a point where my tolerance and interdose withdrawal is so bad, I might as well be tapering. I've developed vertigo and sometimes I'll wake up in the middle of the night in complete terror.

 

I've been on the same dose since day 1...

 

2 mg/day 1 mg in exact 12 hour intervals

 

I was looking for a method on YouTube and found someone who said to just dissolve your daily dose into 300ml of water and reduce by 1ml/day. She also recommended dividing the 300ml into 3-4 doses to help interdose withdrawal. My doc and I have practiced dividing the morning dose but I've never been able to touch the night dose because I'm scared. I have a fear of waking up in terror with a seizure. I'm scared.

 

For a long-term user, how does the above plan sound? Will dividing my dose help with the interdose withdrawal?

 

What would a plan using vodka to dissolve the tablets look like? Is it true milk can metabolize some of the ingredients leading to negative side effects?

 

Thanks!

that video is so full of false and miselading info it should be taken down.  And why the fixation wit 300mls?  Actually, if you scroll through the comments there you will find the exchanges I have had with her  (user=!@#$%^).  And FWIW, she points out the she is NOT saying you can dissolve your K in water, she says she is making a suspension  But you can 't make a suspension with water, either.

Its very easy to make a stable, uniformly distrubuted solution with either vodka or propylene glycol.  The ratios are:

1mg + 2ml solvent + 8ml water.  This is a finished .1mg=1ml solution.

To do a DLMT from your current 2mg dose...

Combine 20mgs + 40ml vodka or PG + 160ml water.  This would give you a 10-12 day supply.  It should be stored at room temp in a covered glass jar.

Milk (dairy milk, soy milk, almond milk, etc) will also make a stable, uniformly distributed solution.  The perishability issue makes it a little less convenient.

*Personal identifying info removed (Buddies name)

To do a DLMT from your current 2mg dose...

 

Combine 20mgs + 40ml vodka or PG + 160ml water.  This would give you a 10-12 day supply.  It should be stored at room temp in a covered glass jar.

Why is there a +-2 day accuracy on this formula? What's the best way to get my daily dose out of this solution? Syringe?

1ml = .1mgs, right? So my daily dose would be 19ml? Is there a specific proof of vodka or type that works best? 80 proof vs 100? Grain or potato?

The YouTuber we discussed said to start with the solution for a few weeks before reducing. Do you agree? I've read about titration and some people feel like it's a cut without cutting because your body is not used to it.

This would take a tremendous amount of courage because dissolving 20 tablets is the point of no return for most these days. I can't just call my doc and say hey titration is not for me and get 20 tablets back.

Is there a calculator or spreadsheet where I can make a smaller batch to give it a test run?

I'm trying to wrap my head around the math. So a single dose for me at 2 mg/day would be 2 tabs + 4ml vodka + 16ml water, right? I could just make that and squirt 1ml out?

So 1 week would be 14 tabs + 28ml vodka + 112ml water?

Do I ever shake the solution or does the solvent do that for me? How does the formula work with decimals, so once I get to 1.9 mgs?

To do a DLMT from your current 2mg dose...

 

Combine 20mgs + 40ml vodka or PG + 160ml water.  This would give you a 10-12 day supply.  It should be stored at room temp in a covered glass jar.

 

Why is there a +-2 day accuracy on this formula?

 

It's an approximation. If its's really important, you can just start adding up the daily dose amounts, and then you will no exactly how many days your supply will last.  

 

What's the best way to get my daily dose out of this solution? Syringe?

 

Yes.

 

1ml = .1mgs, right? So my daily dose would be 19ml? Is there a specific proof of vodka or type that works best? 80 proof vs 100? Grain or potato?

 

Any beverage liquor, 80 proof or higher, will work fine.

 

If your current dose is 2mg, then that would be 20ml.

 

The YouTuber we discussed said to start with the solution for a few weeks before reducing. Do you agree? I've read about titration and some people feel like it's a cut without cutting because your body is not used to it.

As I said, that video is garbage.  Its the same medicine, from the same batch, from the same supplier.  No difference.  And when you swallow a tablet, its liquid within seconds of getting to the stomach, so again, no difference.

 

This would take a tremendous amount of courage because dissolving 20 tablets is the point of no return for most these days. I can't just call my doc and say hey titration is not for me and get 20 tablets back.

 

You can make a separate batch daily  (2mg +4 ml solvent + 16ml water) it that's what you want.  Or you can do 2 days, or 5 days, or what ever.  1:2:8 is just a ratio.

 

Is there a calculator or spreadsheet where I can make a smaller batch to give it a test run?

 

See my comment immediately above.

Thanks for the info builder! The more I understand the process, the more courage I get.

What tools will I need? Sounds like 1 glass jar, a beaker and a syringe? Do you know the min/max sizes?

Thoughts on spreading out my doses? Will it help the interdose withdrawal?

I've only ever done 1 mg twice a day but I'm waking up at night and around 5-6 PM I can feel the w/d, too. So maybe 4 doses per day? Scientifically does this make sense over 2 large doses per day?

Oh and thoughts on a 5% cut for 2 weeks or should you cut small everyday?

Thanks!

I'm trying to wrap my head around the math. So a single dose for me at 2 mg/day would be 2  tabs  mgs + 4ml vodka + 16ml water, right? I could just make that and squirt 1ml out?

 

Yup!

 

So 1 week would be 14 tabs mgs+ 28ml vodka + 112ml water?

Yup.  See, its really NOT difficult.

 

Do I ever shake the solution or does the solvent do that for me? How does the formula work with decimals, so once I get to 1.9 mgs?

 

 

Once it's dissolved additional agitation really isn't needed.  But it won't hurt.  And most folks feel better about (I did it)

Your use of the term tabs is correct, as long as they are 1mg tabs.  But since the ratios are really about milligrams of benzo, , I just have strong preference for using "mgs "instead of "tabs" to avoid confusion and misinterpretation.

Thanks for the info builder! The more I understand the process, the more courage I get.

 

What tools will I need? Sounds like 1 glass jar, a beaker and a syringe? Do you know the min/max sizes?

 

Thoughts on spreading out my doses? Will it help the interdose withdrawal?

 

I've only ever done 1 mg twice a day but I'm waking up at night and around 5-6 PM I can feel the w/d, too. So maybe 4 doses per day? Scientifically does this make sense over 2 large doses per day?

 

Oh and thoughts on a 5% cut for 2 weeks or should you cut small everyday?

 

Thanks!

You will need a 1ml and 10ml syringe.  Any reclaimed glass food jar with a lid will work for your mix/storage jar (pickles, olives, jelly, salad dressing etc.)  A 100ml graduated cylinder and/or a 50-60ml syringe will be helpful, but not required.

I'm a believer in not making any changes that are not absolutely necessary.  If you're on 2X day, 12 hrs apart that's what I would continue to do.  Because of its long half-life, there really is no benefit to dosing more than 2X day.

To continue your 2X dosing, put the full days dose in a measuring cup, top up/dilute to 1 full cup, then just drink 1/2 cup for each dose.

builder, I just bought 1ml and 10ml syringes. Can you check my 30 day plan?

So I want to start slow at 6% for 30 days.

2 mg * 0.06 = 0.12

0.12 / 30 = 0.004, so I want to reduce my solution by 0.004 mgs/day, right?

My 10 day solution would be 20 mgs + 40ml of solvent + 160ml of water

So that's 200ml all mixed up but I'm stuck on converting the 0.004 mgs cut per day to ml??? In my solution 1ml=.1mg so...

builder, I just bought 1ml and 10ml syringes. Can you check my 30 day plan?

 

So I want to start slow at 6% for 30 days.

 

2 mg * 0.06 = 0.12

 

0.12 / 30 = 0.004, so I want to reduce my solution by 0.004 mgs/day, right?

 

 

My 10 day solution would be 20 mgs + 40ml of solvent + 160ml of water

So that's 200ml all mixed up but I'm stuck on converting the 0.004 mgs cut per day to ml??? In my solution 1ml=.1mg so...

That's why I always recommend the .1mg=1ml ratio.  You just move the decimal.

If .1mg=1ml, then...

.004mg=.04ml

You just multiply X10.

So your schedule would be...

2mg                    20ml

1.996mg              19.66ml

1.992mg              19.22ml

1.998mg              19.92ml

etc...........

Ah! Got it!

P.S.

I think I saw your comment on that YouTube water titration video. You said you were the creator of the alcohol solution method, right?

Have you received any blow back suggesting alcohol as a solvent? I know it's a very small amount but has anyone said the alcohol would be an updose, etc?

I know propylene glycol is an option but I bet it's harder to work with and it's also used as anti-freeze, so it's not as benign as people think.

The only other option to make a true solution is milk, right? And it has to be a special type???

You've been a member on here a lot longer than me. I'm looking for the easiest, safest and proven solvent. Sounds like that's alcohol, no?

Folks confuse the concept of drinking alcoholic beverages, with alcohol as a pharma solvent.  They have an emotional response to the  word "alcohol", and don't bother to think how tiny the amount will be.  Almost everyone actually ingest more alcohol each day from other sources than they would ever use making a benzo solution.

Alcohol and PG are the 2 most widely used pharma solvents in the world.

(...and I am always amazed at how many folks say they can't/won't touch alcohol, but started taking benzo! )

builder,

Trust me!  Had I known 20 years ago what oxazepam was, I never would have taken it.  It's truly a shame so many doctors just prescribe it like candy.  I did know after a while what the junk was all about but by then, I was dependent.  I tried a time or two to cut back, but I wasn't able to until I found benzobuddies and now, I'm happily trusting my DLMT with whole milk will be successful.

All the best...

This is a convenient post for me to join in on, because I'm also taking 2mg K / day and want to start liquid titration.

I have 3 questions:

1) If I choose to cut back by 5% for the first 2 weeks, that would be: 2mg X 5% = .1mg reduction = 1.9mg/day for the first 2 weeks. Correct?

2) I currently take 2 doses/day: 1mg when I wake up, 1mg in the afternoon. Possibly stupid question, but... For this LT  I understand that I take half the solution in the morning. But, what do us working folks do with the afternoon dose? Leave it in the car in the workplace parking lot, then go out there and drink it down when it's time for the afternoon dose? I'm definitely not going to leave a benzo solution sitting around in my place of work.

3) Using the LT method, because I'm dealing with liquid, it seems the easiest way to go (since I take 2 doses/day) is to drink exactly half in the morning and half in the afternoon. I don't like the fact that if I decide my w/d symptoms are lessened by taking 60% of the solution in the morning and 40% in the afternoon, it further complicates the dosage math. Any thoughts on this?

This is a convenient post for me to join in on, because I'm also taking 2mg K / day and want to start liquid titration.

 

I have 3 questions:

 

1) If I choose to cut back by 5% for the first 2 weeks, that would be: 2mg X 5% = .1mg reduction = 1.9mg/day for the first 2 weeks. Correct?

 

2) I currently take 2 doses/day: 1mg when I wake up, 1mg in the afternoon. Possibly stupid question, but... For this LT  I understand that I take half the solution in the morning. But, what do us working folks do with the afternoon dose? Leave it in the car in the workplace parking lot, then go out there and drink it down when it's time for the afternoon dose? I'm definitely not going to leave a benzo solution sitting around in my place of work.

 

3) Using the LT method, because I'm dealing with liquid, it seems the easiest way to go (since I take 2 doses/day) is to drink exactly half in the morning and half in the afternoon. I don't like the fact that if I decide my w/d symptoms are lessened by taking 60% of the solution in the morning and 40% in the afternoon, it further complicates the dosage math. Any thoughts on this?

1) Well, sort of...  What your describing "...1.9mg/day for the first 2 weeks" is really just a cut&hold taper , using liquid.  But the concept of a daily liquid microtaper (DLMT) is instead of making a big cut (.1mg) and holding for 2 week, you would make a .007mg cut each day for 14 days.  The series of tiny cuts will be much more tolerable than the 1 big cut.

2)  Why not.  Who's going to know what it is.  And even if they do, are there rules against taking Rx medicine during the work day.  Once you make your liquid, and put it a juice box or water bottle.  It's really no big deal.

3)  Once you have your liquid dose measured up for the day, put it in a measuring cup, and top it up to 1 full cup (or any convenient total).  If you top it up to 1 cup, then for 2 equal doses, drink 1/2 cup.  Want 1/3 and 2/3s?  No big  deal, its 1/3 cup and 2/3 cups.  Divide into whatever proportions you choose.

There is absolutely no easier way to taper, or any other method that will give you absolute flexibility for your dosing schedule.

Hi builder, thank you for explaining DLMT and for pointing out that I was misunderstanding and looking at it from a cut-and-hold point of view, which is something I DEFINITELY don't want to do. I quickly found at from my first attempt at tapering that I'm extremely sensitive to w/d. I'll keep handy your calculation of ".007mg cut each day for 14 days" (=0.098mg total / 5% of 2mg) and eventually put together a spreadsheet to calculate all these daily decreases. All very informative and very much appreciated!

Regarding how many milliliters I withdraw each day, as I understand from your other posts you multiply the mg x 10 to get the ml. So, each day I would be removing an additional .07ml (the equivalent of .007mg) to reach a 5% reduction at the end of 2 weeks. I just read your initial reply in this thread in which you wrote: "1mg + 2ml solvent + 8ml water. This is a finished .1mg=1ml solution." So, I take that to mean that I would be cutting back an additional .07ml each day from a 10ml solution. Is that correct? (I'm math-challenged).

Hi builder, thank you for explaining DLMT and for pointing out that I was misunderstanding and looking at it from a cut-and-hold point of view, which is something I DEFINITELY don't want to do. I quickly found at from my first attempt at tapering that I'm extremely sensitive to w/d. I'll keep handy your calculation of ".007mg cut each day for 14 days" (=0.098mg total / 5% of 2mg) and eventually put together a spreadsheet to calculate all these daily decreases. All very informative and very much appreciated!

 

Regarding how many milliliters I withdraw each day, as I understand from your other posts you multiply the mg x 10 to get the ml. So, each day I would be removing an additional .07ml (the equivalent of .007mg) to reach a 5% reduction at the end of 2 weeks. I just read your initial reply in this thread in which you wrote: "1mg + 2ml solvent + 8ml water. This is a finished .1mg=1ml solution." So, I take that to mean that I would be cutting back an additional .07ml each day from a 10ml solution. Is that correct? (I'm math-challenged).

Again, basically correct, but the 1mg:2ml solvent:8ml water is a ratio.  You can apply that ratio to any volume you want to prepare.

If your at 2mg/day, I would make approx a 10-12 day supply.

20 mg K + 40ml solvent + 160ml water.

Then using the .007mg/day reduction we already calculated, your schedule would be:

2mg                  20ml

1.993mg            19.93ml

1.986mg            19.86ml

1.979mg            10.79ml

etc.....

(btw, just extend that out and that's really all the "spreadsheet" you need.  quick and easy with just a calculator)

Hi builder. Just one final question and I'm ready to start. It's about how best to dissolve my two 1mg tablets. Like the OP, I'm going to start out making a solution each day, rather than making a 10 to 12 day batch. As you've stated, a daily solution would consist of the 2mg of K + 4ml solvent + 16ml water.

Should I first dissolve the 2mg of K in the 4ml of solvent and then add the 16ml of water, or will the K dissolve just as well in the 4ml of solvent + 16ml of water?

Thanks!

Dissolve the tablet in the solvent, then dilute with the water.

builder, thank you very much for taking the time to answer all my questions. I now feel confident in my understanding of DLMT and will begin my taper in a week or two.

The fact that you jumped in late 2014 and continue to help people here speaks volumes about the kind of person you are. I hope that one day I, too, can help others in their efforts to get off of benzos.

 

Dissolve the tablet in the solvent, then dilute with the water.

Hi builder! Dissolved my first tablet tonight. Kind of nervous. Not making any cuts yet. Seeing how my body responds to the solution.

 

Dissolve the tablet in the solvent, then dilute with the water.

 

Hi builder! Dissolved my first tablet tonight. Kind of nervous. Not making any cuts yet. Seeing how my body responds to the solution.

It will respond the same as it does to the tablet.  After all, that's what it is!