? for "Builder" or someone about DLMT for valium.

I am about to start my taper from 15 mg of valium, which I take 5 mg 3 x daily. I was planning on reducing .5 mg or 1 mg a month, depending on how my body reacts, by taking both pill form and solution form.  My Dr. is reluctant to prescribe both 5 mg and 2 mg pills at the same time, which would make the taper math much easier.  He didn't rule it out, but he would have to think a bout it.

I planned on taking a 5 mg pill and a 2 mg pill twice a day (14 mg total) while doing a  DLMT with half of a 2 mg pill.  If my Dr. will not prescribe both 5 mg and 2 mg, how would I use the liquid taper plan on a 5 mg pill?  After studying your plan of 1 ml = 1 mg, I would have to use 500 ml of liquid for a 5 mg pill.  This sounds like a lot to drink at one time, but I really don't know. (Confused).

Am I figuring this wrong, or is there another way of doing this with only 5 mg pills?

Thank you for help and consideration.

You do not need 2 mg pills and you most certainly do not need that amount of liquid. These spreadsheet links are ridiculous.

Using full fat homogeneous milk, take 1 5 mg V pill, add 50 mls of full fat homogeneous milk, every 1 mg V = 10 mls milk. You would dose that with your 2 5 mg V pills for 2 weeks, drink half with your AM/PM dose, no reduction. This goes in the fridge, at least 12 hrs, gently shaking a couple of times and a gentle swirl before removing your cut, split liquid in to 2 dosing jars. You rinse your prep and dosing jars & lids with water and drink. You rinse your syringes with water thoroughly and keep them in the fridge as well.

To reduce 1 mg in 50 days, you would remove .02 mgs/.2 mls every day.

All one is doing is setting a cut rate, .02 mgs/.2 mls and you increase your daily cut by that amount. If it's too much, lower your cut.

You need 1 and 10 ml oral syringes, glass prep jars and dosing jars. These are all the supplies you need. Jervais & George make great glass, spill proof jars and they're available th through Amazon.

Before starting any liquid taper, practice using oral needless syringes with water and food color, to get the hang of it.

Do not start v milk or taper until you are fully on V for a good 3 weeks and feeling stable.

You do not need 2 mg pills and you most certainly do not need that amount of liquid. These spreadsheet links are ridiculous.

 

Using full fat homogeneous milk, take 1 5 mg V pill, add 50 mls of full fat homogeneous milk, every 1 mg V = 10 mls milk. You would dose that with your 2 5 mg V pills for 2 weeks, drink half with your AM/PM dose, no reduction. This goes in the fridge, at least 12 hrs, gently shaking a couple of times and a gentle swirl before removing your cut, split liquid in to 2 dosing jars. You rinse your prep and dosing jars & lids with water and drink. You rinse your syringes with water thoroughly and keep them in the fridge as well.

 

To reduce 1 mg in 50 days, you would remove .02 mgs/.2 mls every day, see below:

 

50 mls v milk /5 mgs V

1st day cut 4.98 mls/mgs

2nd day cut 4.96 mls/ mgs

3rd day cut 4.93 mls/mgs

 

All one is doing is setting a cut rate, .02 mgs/.2 mls and you increase your daily cut by that amount. If it's too much, lower your cut.

 

You need 1 and 10 ml oral syringes, glass prep jars and dosing jars. These are all the supplies you need. Jervais & George make great glass, spill proof jars and they're available th through Amazon.

 

Before starting any liquid taper, practice using oral needless syringes with water and food color, to get the hang of it.

 

Do not start v milk or taper until you are fully on V for a good 3 weeks and feeling stable.

Thanks for the info, makes a lot of sense and not that hard to understand, except what happens after you finish tapering the 1st mg and still are working with 5 mg tablets.  Now you are at 14 mg a day, but still using the same 5 mg pill to taper with.  Would the ratio not have to change for the 2nd mg taper.  If not it seems like you would be stuck at 14 mg.

I know this system is very easy for those of you who have used it, but for those who are just starting, our minds sometimes do not function correctly and makes us seem stupid.  So I guess what I am asking is how do you do the calculations for the 2nd 50 days to get to 13 mg?

The ratio does not change unless you want to increase the volume of milk, you just have more to discard until that 50 MLS of milk is gone.

You are not splitting any pills. Once you've tapered 5 mgs, you then can go all liquid with 10 mgs in 100 MLS milk or, if at that time, your doctor prescribes 2 mg pills, you can take 4 mgs pill am/pm and use a 2 mg pill as your liquid dose. 2 mgs V in 20 mls milk.

You'll have the hang of it and it will just be a procedure you do daily.

Keep a log sheet with date/dose/reduction amount and note any symptoms. If you need to hold, do so. A symptom based taper will serve you much better than a % and date based taper. Always listen to your body.

You do not need 2 mg pills and you most certainly do not need that amount of liquid. These spreadsheet links are ridiculous.

 

Using full fat homogeneous milk, take 1 5 mg V pill, add 50 mls of full fat homogeneous milk, every 1 mg V = 10 mls milk. You would dose that with your 2 5 mg V pills for 2 weeks, drink half with your AM/PM dose, no reduction. This goes in the fridge, at least 12 hrs, gently shaking a couple of times and a gentle swirl before removing your cut, split liquid in to 2 dosing jars. You rinse your prep and dosing jars & lids with water and drink. You rinse your syringes with water thoroughly and keep them in the fridge as well.

 

To reduce 1 mg in 50 days, you would remove .02 mgs/.2 mls every day, see below:

 

50 mls v milk /5 mgs V

1st day cut 4.98 mls/mgs

2nd day cut 4.96 mls/ mgs

3rd day cut 4.93 mls/mgs

 

All one is doing is setting a cut rate, .02 mgs/.2 mls and you increase your daily cut by that amount. If it's too much, lower your cut.

 

You need 1 and 10 ml oral syringes, glass prep jars and dosing jars. These are all the supplies you need. Jervais & George make great glass, spill proof jars and they're available th through Amazon.

 

Before starting any liquid taper, practice using oral needless syringes with water and food color, to get the hang of it.

 

Do not start v milk or taper until you are fully on V for a good 3 weeks and feeling stable.

 

Thanks for the info, makes a lot of sense and not that hard to understand, except what happens after you finish tapering the 1st mg and still are working with 5 mg tablets.  Now you are at 14 mg a day, but still using the same 5 mg pill to taper with.  Would the ratio not have to change for the 2nd mg taper.  If not it seems like you would be stuck at 14 mg.

 

I know this system is very easy for those of you who have used it, but for those who are just starting, our minds sometimes do not function correctly and makes us seem stupid.  So I guess what I am asking is how do you do the calculations for the 2nd 50 days to get to 13 mg?

When you say "You just have more to discard", how do you know how much more to discard?  The 2nd 50 days do I pull out 10 ml from the 50 ml ratio to make a ratio of 4 mg = 40 ml and then continue to pull .2 ml daily after that to taper the 2nd mg?  Then the 3rd 50 days pull 20 ml from the 50 ml ratio to make it a 3 mg = 30 ml and so on until the original 5 mg is gone?

The ratio does not change unless you want to increase the volume of milk, you just have more to discard until that 50 MLS of milk is gone.

 

You are not splitting any pills. Once you've tapered 5 mgs, you then can go all liquid with 10 mgs in 100 MLS milk or, if at that time, your doctor prescribes 2 mg pills, you can take 4 mgs pill am/pm and use a 2 mg pill as your liquid dose. 2 mgs V in 20 mls milk.

 

You'll have the hang of it and it will just be a procedure you do daily.

 

Keep a log sheet with date/dose/reduction amount and note any symptoms. If you need to hold, do so. A symptom based taper will serve you much better than a % and date based taper. Always listen to your body.

When you say "You just have more to discard", how do you know how much more to discard?  The 2nd 50 days do I pull out 10 ml from the 50 ml ratio to make a ratio of 4 mg = 40 ml and then continue to pull .2 ml daily after that to taper the 2nd mg?  Then the 3rd 50 days pull 20 ml from the 50 ml ratio to make it a 3 mg = 30 ml and so on until the original 5 mg is gone?

Your not making a new ratio, it is the remaining ratio of ml/mg afte your removal. You continue to make 5 mgs/50 mls v milk. That's why you keep a log sheet with date, cut, days dose.

A full 1 ml pull is 1/10th cut from your liquid dose. From 5mg/50 mls, that would be 4.9 mgs/49 mls.

Once you have to pull 10 full 1 ml of v milk, you would use your 10 ml syringe, pull 1 full ml ( 1 mg) and use your 1 ml to remove your .2 mls/ .02 mgs, rinse and repeat.

Does that make sense?

And just FYI, you decide the amount you want to remove. I used the .2ml/.02 mg based on you stating you wanted to remove 1 mg over a certain time frame. Please listen to your body.

Link to glass jars:

https://jervisandgeorge.com/products/4-glass-8oz-240ml-jars

Yes, that's correct.

 

A full 1 ml pull is 1/10th cut from your liquid dose. From 5mg/50 mls, that would be 4.9 mgs/49 mls.

 

Once you have to pull 10 full 1 ml of v milk, you would use your 10 ml syringe, pull 1 full ml ( 1 mg) and use your 1 ml to remove your .2 mls/ .02 mgs, rinse and repeat.

 

Does that make sense?

 

And just FYI, you decide the amount you want to remove. I used the .2ml/.02 mg based on you stating you wanted to remove 1 mg over a certain time frame. Please listen to your body.

Yes, it is becoming more clear and thank you.

The 1st month (or 50 days) 5 mg of V 50 ml milk. Pull .2 ml, toss, drink 4.98 ml daily consecutive, repeat.

The 2nd month (or 50 days) 5 mg of V 50 ml milk.  Toss 10 ml to get down to 40 ml, then pull .2 ml drink 3.98 ml, repeat.

The 3rd month (or 50 days) 5 mg of V 50 ml milk.  Toss 20 ml to get down to 30 ml, then pull .2 ml drink 2.98 ml, repeat.

Or am I correct in thinking:  Each month (or 50 days) when I reduce the original 50 ml solution by 10 ml and toss, should I add back 10 ml of more pure milk to get back to 50 ml, just less medication in it.  And then decrease by .2ml daily?

I do not mean to keep bothering you, but I want to be absolutely sure we are on the same page.

You would not add another 10 mls of milk after removing 10 mls of v milk as you would no longer have a 1mg V = 10 mls ratio. You can add however much milk after the cut and before you dose if you wish.

If you'd like, you can use a 1:20 ratio, 1 mg V = 20 mls milk and this would be a total of 100 mls milk w/ 5 mgs V. Then a removal of .02 mgs/mls would be a cut of .01mgs/.1 mls because the ratio was doubled.

You would not add another 10 mls of milk after removing 10 mls of v milk as you would no longer have a 1mg V = 10 mls ratio. You can add however much milk after the cut and before you dose if you wish.

 

If you'd like, you can use a 1:20 ratio, 1 mg V = 20 mls milk and this would be a total of 100 mls milk w/ 5 mgs V. Then a removal of .02 mgs/mls would be a cut of .01mgs/.1 mls because the ratio was doubled.

I think I finally got it. 

After you get your monthly ratio to 1mg=10ml, you then make your .2 ml reduction.  After that, you can add as much liquid as you like.

EX:  Month 2, start with 5 mg V in 50 ml milk again as in month one. Remove 10 ml of milk to make a 4 mg V = 40 ml of milk, then reduce the .2 ml of solution from the 40 ml to make that day's liquid dose of 39.8 ml.  After final daily dose is measured, you may then add more liquid if desired.

The trick is to start every month (or 50 days) with 5 mg V and 50 ml of milk.  Then reduce by 10 ml of solution each month followed by the .2 ml reduction to get your daily dose.  Once daily dose is achieved, more milk can be added to possibly make drinking solution more pleasant.  This ratio would be a reduction of 1 mg almost every two months, correct?

I think I finally got it. 

After you get your monthly ratio to 1mg=10ml, you then make your .2 ml reduction.  After that, you can add as much liquid as you like.

You are not making a monthly ratio, it is just the ratio you are using to make your liquid portion of your total days dose, pills & liquid.

EX:  Month 2, start with 5 mg V in 50 ml milk again as in month one. Remove 10 ml of milk to make a 4 mg V = 40 ml of milk, then reduce the .2 ml of solution from the 40 ml to make that day's liquid dose of 39.8 ml. After final daily dose is measured, you may then add more liquid if desired.

The dose after your .2 MLS reduction is 39.98 MLS/3.998 mgs

            40.00 MLS

          -    .02 MLS

          __________________

            39.98 MLS/ 3.998 mgs

The 1 ML oral syringe is removing in "tenths." So, based on your above numbers, which are incorrect and the assumption you have already tapered 10 MLS/1 mg V, see above bolded

Again, forget using "Month 1 or 2, etc...", we're not using months, your taper rate & your symptoms, will dictate the length of the taper. Once you have removed 10 MLS of V-milk, which is 1 mg at the daily rate reduction increments of .2 MLS/.02 mgs, which would take 50 days, Yes, you would need to remove 1 full 10 MLS milk and use your 1 ML oral syringe to start to remove the fractional amounts of .2 MLS/ .02mgs. You can add more milk after your cut if you wish, but quite honestly, it doesn't taste bad at all.

The trick is to start every month (or 50 days) with 5 mg V and 50 ml of milk.  Then reduce by 10 ml of solution each month followed by the .2 ml reduction to get your daily dose.  Once daily dose is achieved, more milk can be added to possibly make drinking solution more pleasant.  This ratio would be a reduction of 1 mg almost every two months, correct?

There is no trick, your liquid dose if 5 mgs V in 50 MLS milk, which is a 1:10 ratio, unless you would like to use a more dilute liquid. You make this everyday and can make multiple prep jars, which is what I do, I make 3 at a time. This comes in handy in case of spillage and also saves me time though I do not find it time consuming. If you use an incremental daily cut rate of .2 MLS/.02 mg's, YES, this would take 50 days to remove 1 mg V.

When you reach a removal of 25 MLS/2.5 m'gs V, you can then use your 50 MLS/5 mg's emulsion for 2 days dosing. You would pull to dose as opposed to pull to discard. I am not going to go in to the details of that now as I don't want to confuse you any further at this time and you are not there yet.

Hi JoJo,

See above bolded replies.

I think I finally got it. 

 

After you get your monthly ratio to 1mg=10ml, you then make your .2 ml reduction.  After that, you can add as much liquid as you like.

 

You are not making a monthly ratio, it is just the ratio you are using to make your liquid portion of your total days dose, pills & liquid.

 

EX:  Month 2, start with 5 mg V in 50 ml milk again as in month one. Remove 10 ml of milk to make a 4 mg V = 40 ml of milk, then reduce the .2 ml of solution from the 40 ml to make that day's liquid dose of 39.8 ml. After final daily dose is measured, you may then add more liquid if desired.

 

The dose after your .2 MLS reduction is 39.98 MLS/3.998 mgs

 

40.00 MLS - .02 MLS = 39.98MLS/ 3.998 mgs

 

The 1 ML oral syringe is removing in "tenths." So, based on your above numbers, which are incorrect and the assumption you have already tapered 10 MLS/1 mg V, see above bolded

 

 

Again, forget using "Month 1 or 2, etc...", we're not using months, your taper rate & your symptoms, will dictate the length of the taper. Once you have removed 10 MLS of V-milk, which is 1 mg at the daily rate reduction increments of .2 MLS/.02 mgs, which would take 50 days, Yes, you would need to remove 1 full 10 MLS milk and use your 1 ML oral syringe to start to remove the fractional amounts of .2 MLS/ .02mgs. You can add more milk after your cut if you wish, but quite honestly, it doesn't taste bad at all.

 

The trick is to start every month (or 50 days) with 5 mg V and 50 ml of milk.  Then reduce by 10 ml of solution each month followed by the .2 ml reduction to get your daily dose.  Once daily dose is achieved, more milk can be added to possibly make drinking solution more pleasant.  This ratio would be a reduction of 1 mg almost every two months, correct?

 

There is no trick, your liquid dose if 5 mgs V in 50 MLS milk, which is a 1:10 ratio, unless you would like to use a more dilute liquid. You make this everyday and can make multiple prep jars, which is what I do, I make 3 at a time. This comes in handy in case of spillage and also saves me time though I do not find it time consuming. If you use an incremental daily cut rate of .2 MLS/.02 mg's, YES, this would take 50 days to remove 1 mg V.

 

When you reach a removal of 25 MLS/2.5 m'gs V, you can then use your 50 MLS/5 mg's emulsion for 2 days dosing. You would pull to dose as opposed to pull to discard. I am not going to go in to the details of that now as I don't want to confuse you any further at this time and you are not there yet.

Hi JoJo,

See above bolded replies.

Thank you so much, last night my mind was in overdrive as I am sure you can relate from previous experiences.

Lets forget about the 25 ml split for 2 days dosing for the time being, we can get back to that when the time comes. I do understand that.  It save times and medication.

For know to keep it simple, lets just say when I get tapered down to 1 mg out of the first 5 mgs, ( meaning I have cut 4 mgs) I would still use a 5 mg pill in 50 mls of milk.  Then I would discard 40 mls of milk to leave 10 mls.  Out of that I would pull the daily .2 ml until the final 10 mls is gone.  So for each 1 mg reduction I would have to discard 10 mls of milk from the oringinal 50 ml, and then make my daily .2 ml reduction.

Please God let this be correct.

Yes.

Remove .2, then .4, then .6, then .8, etc...

Yes.

 

Remove .2, then .4, then .6, then .8, etc...

Thank you so much and thank God my brain worked a little better today.

Sorry to be such a hassle, but these pills have wrecked havoc on my cognitive ability.

Believe it or not, I have a Master degree in Education and there was once a time when these calculations would have been as simple as tying my shoes.  Hopefully I can get back to the person I once was.