1 year off - what happened.... sleep did improve, just like they said.

Hi everyone,

Historically I spent more time on the post withdrawal recovery support page, now, from my perspective, I have improved so much that I spend more time on this insomnia page.

I was on benzos for 22 years, it started with panic attacks, but ultimately I stayed on them because of sleep. I was in constant rebound and I did not have the insight, discipline or information to attempt a taper and to review my ways of thinking pertaining to anxiety. The doctors did not, and still mostly do not have an Ashton mentality regarding benzos.

So, long story short, I tapered for 9 months which was hard but the first 8 months post jump was tougher for me, more frequent and powerful withdrawals but I kept on working full time but took days off at times.

My sleep has drastically improved in the last year - there are cycles of good and bad periods but the good periods are getting longer. I have not had a bad spell of sleep for 5 weeks now. I get mostly 6 and a bit hours a night. 7 and 8 are rare. I have seen recently that if I choose to sleep more in the morning I can do so easily now - but I choose to get up and try stick to some sort of semblance of a routine. I am still quite sensitive to caffeine and drink coffee rarely, but I do feel the caffeine kick now which I never did during and before benzos.

So I do have occasional bad nights - but for 3 maybe 4 months now a bad night is 3 or 4 hours sleep as opposed to the dreaded zero hours perceived sleep we all know so well... I saw I was more tired after good sleep and performed better at work after bad nights - anecdotally. I see this much less now. I am still tired after good nights but I am more confident and can see I am coming alive again - people at work also see many improvements - even my wife too.

Pain killers, antihistamines or any proven sleep aid helps me for up to three nights and then they ruin everything for a week or so. So I really avoid them now.

I do not wake up refreshed - I do not know what that is but I am better in so many ways I am even getting on top of my diet. I get this "cool"  feeling in my neck and back occasionally and it may last an hour - after explaining it to many people they now say it is the "refreshed" feeling. I do not remember it like that, but good sleep ended for me in February 1995...

3 out of 5 nights I get really sleepy once I lay in bed and relax..... it is a wonderful feeling, and then sleep.... other nights it is not so powerful but I fall asleep anyway. I was waking up for about two hours a night at 2 or 3 am  - that is down to 30 mins now. I then sleep another hour or two, depending and then get going.

I cycle a lot of local mountain bike routes for sleep  - about 60 to 90 miles a week. It helps  - difficult to start but great once you are doing it. Cardio does it for me - I know some people prefer the gym, most exercise is good.

I am thankful to be at this stage, I know it can turn, but it seems almost impossible. I recall the words from the Ashton manual regarding sleep; "There are powerful natural mechanisms in the body which ensure that the brain does not become severely sleep-deprived." and "The need for sleep is so powerful that normal sleep will eventually reassert itself."

Restless legs and the jerks becoming less frequent and less bothersome....after all these years I am reaping a reward for a change.....

Thank you STRIVE, we ALL need to hear this and be encouraged!!  BRAVO to you for coming in here and encouraging all of us!

  Bless you! :hug:

Strive,

That's wonderful news. It sounds like you have a great attitude as well. I'm sure that has helped carry you through the hard times. Thank you for sharing this will all of us.

MT

Strive2B, that is such great news, I’m so happy for you – thanks so much for posting this.

Your experience is similar to mine, and I think I can be confident in telling you that the best is yet to come. Now that I’m off for 2+ years, I’m back to sleeping like a teenager. Yesterday I slept for 12 hours straight, and on most nights I get 8-9 now.

It’s really amazing, once natural sleep finally returns. 

Strive2B,

Thank you so much for posting this update.  You give me sooo much hope!  I wish you continued healing and a full recovery. 

I am almost 5 months off after taking Ativan for 11 months and tapering for 5.  My biggest issue is the insomnia.  When I jumped, I was getting between 3-7 hours a night with only 1 zero night a week the first 2 months. 

Then my sleep worsened and I've been in a pattern of getting some sleep one night and not the next.  Sunday night, I slept 6 hours straight and then fell back asleep for another hour.  It was amazing even though it's not the same as my sleep before this all happened to me.  Going to take a while for my body to recover. 

I do take a couple supplements - .9mg melatonin, tart cherry pills, tryptophan and lactium.  I want to wean off the melatonin and tryptophan.  Not so worried about the tart cherry and lactium as they are nutraceuticals.  Ideally, I don't want to be dependent on anything and have been contemplating going that route instead of prolonging things. 

I'm hanging on to the hope and belief that I will someday heal and regain my sleep.  Thank you for reminding us.

Strive2B, that is such great news, I’m so happy for you – thanks so much for posting this.

 

 

Your experience is similar to mine, and I think I can be confident in telling you that the best is yet to come. Now that I’m off for 2+ years, I’m back to sleeping like a teenager. Yesterday I slept for 12 hours straight, and on most nights I get 8-9 now.

 

It’s really amazing, once natural sleep finally returns. 

Leslie,

I would give anything to sleep 12 hours again.  I pray that my sleep returns like yours did.  I never had insomnia in my life until I suffered a neck injury 2 years ago.  I gave a little update in my post to Strive2B. 

May I ask how your sleep returned?  What helped?  What didn't?  Thank you!

Hi everyone,

 

Historically I spent more time on the post withdrawal recovery support page, now, from my perspective, I have improved so much that I spend more time on this insomnia page.

 

I was on benzos for 22 years, it started with panic attacks, but ultimately I stayed on them because of sleep. I was in constant rebound and I did not have the insight, discipline or information to attempt a taper and to review my ways of thinking pertaining to anxiety. The doctors did not, and still mostly do not have an Ashton mentality regarding benzos.

 

So, long story short, I tapered for 9 months which was hard but the first 8 months post jump was tougher for me, more frequent and powerful withdrawals but I kept on working full time but took days off at times.

 

My sleep has drastically improved in the last year - there are cycles of good and bad periods but the good periods are getting longer. I have not had a bad spell of sleep for 5 weeks now. I get mostly 6 and a bit hours a night. 7 and 8 are rare. I have seen recently that if I choose to sleep more in the morning I can do so easily now - but I choose to get up and try stick to some sort of semblance of a routine. I am still quite sensitive to caffeine and drink coffee rarely, but I do feel the caffeine kick now which I never did during and before benzos.

 

So I do have occasional bad nights - but for 3 maybe 4 months now a bad night is 3 or 4 hours sleep as opposed to the dreaded zero hours perceived sleep we all know so well... I saw I was more tired after good sleep and performed better at work after bad nights - anecdotally. I see this much less now. I am still tired after good nights but I am more confident and can see I am coming alive again - people at work also see many improvements - even my wife too.

 

Pain killers, antihistamines or any proven sleep aid helps me for up to three nights and then they ruin everything for a week or so. So I really avoid them now.

 

I do not wake up refreshed - I do not know what that is but I am better in so many ways I am even getting on top of my diet. I get this "cool"  feeling in my neck and back occasionally and it may last an hour - after explaining it to many people they now say it is the "refreshed" feeling. I do not remember it like that, but good sleep ended for me in February 1995...

 

3 out of 5 nights I get really sleepy once I lay in bed and relax..... it is a wonderful feeling, and then sleep.... other nights it is not so powerful but I fall asleep anyway. I was waking up for about two hours a night at 2 or 3 am  - that is down to 30 mins now. I then sleep another hour or two, depending and then get going.

 

I cycle a lot of local mountain bike routes for sleep  - about 60 to 90 miles a week. It helps  - difficult to start but great once you are doing it. Cardio does it for me - I know some people prefer the gym, most exercise is good.

 

I am thankful to be at this stage, I know it can turn, but it seems almost impossible. I recall the words from the Ashton manual regarding sleep; "There are powerful natural mechanisms in the body which ensure that the brain does not become severely sleep-deprived." and "The need for sleep is so powerful that normal sleep will eventually reassert itself."

 

Restless legs and the jerks becoming less frequent and less bothersome....after all these years I am reaping a reward for a change.....

May God bless you for writing this post. I am so thankful for people like you who take the time to show there is improvement. I am about seven months off of my benzo and sleep is my last difficult symptom. Oh I may have some fatigue and some headaches but generally it’s a sleep that’s a bummer. Thank you for typing up your experience. It gives me hope.

Wow! Thank you sooooo much for the encouragement. I have to admit after reading about the side effects and being on the second part of my taper I get scared because I do not do well without sleep... in fact I cannot function at all. I am afraid at the end of this taper that I am going to get hit with no sleep like everyone else and it makes me not want to go through with this but I know I have to and I just keep plugging away.  I'm so glad that you are feeling better and it's nice to read good news for a change! Again thank you! 

I am glad that people find this encouraging,  I am very thankful for the sleep I am getting. I have been reading and contemplating many things about sleep and depression lately.

I believe I had ignorant or unrealistic expectations from life and sleep in particular and that made my sleep seem much worse. I wanted to go to bed whenever I like and I expected to fall asleep within 5 minutes, wake up naturally or as per the alarm and get going. I expected to feel refreshed every day, provided I went to bed eight hours earlier.

Even the individuals blessed with the best sleep known to man face days of fatigue even after a good nights' sleep. What is the best sleep known to man? We have an idea but it is not really clear. Certain aspects of what constitutes good rest, sleep and routine seem to be undefined at this stage. So, what you put in you do not always get out....

I hope to never be hamstrung by the wrong attitude when I wake up tired through no fault of my own choices and routine, an attitude where I lie and think before I get up (how has this ever resulted in a better day), or think and believe that if only I could sleep an hour more I will feel better - the truth is it takes twenty to sixty nights of an hour more every night before you actually feel better!

I also, among several reasons, used benzos as and ON/OFF switch for my sleep - I was completely or mostly thoughtless about the fact that my body/mind needs nurturing and care. I was busy, busy , busy, oh, I got to sleep now, I have been going for 18 hours, take a benzo, sleep, wake up, repeat.... foolishness.

Depression? For some people this can be immense and devastating, it may be for me that depression is camouflaged, subtle, insidious and is the straw that breaks the camels back. When I wake up tired it may be slight depression that prevents that single just "positive enough" thought to switch in my brain, THAT THOUGHT THAT MAKES ME GET UP AND GET GOING AND NEXT THING, THE DAY IS ROLLING, I HAVE MOMENTUM AND EVERYTHING IS JUST FINE.

I am trying to use positive assertions said out loud when I get up  - this is foreign to me, I am not a fan of being my own cheerleader BUT maybe cheering yourself on is normal, maybe that is how it should be, who am I to argue, I certainly have no foundation or track record of success in sleep/routine that I can argue from. Can I be humble enough to live like this? I hope so. I have no right to wake up every day and feel refreshed and that is life. I can still sleep well though and feel refreshed quite often.

I am making a positive effort to think about and  practice more regarding sleep and routine in terms of: breaking habits/assumptions/stereotypical behaviour is hard - even worse is to assume that most or all of your standards, methods and beliefs are correct and to keep banging yourself against a wall because of them, month after month and year after year to no avail.

Not accepting my personal status quo regarding sleep/daily routine and depression/attitude has been very meaningful to me for the last three months. I have to watch myself all the time regarding this. It is not nice to admit I have been wrong or even foolish about certain things all these years, it is terrible, but it is the first step in finding another way - hopefully one that works - I certainly do not want my ego to stand in the way of that. A spade is a spade, I was wrong with many things, I thank God I see what I see.

This may be the season in my life where I finally realise that that old saying, that I always looked down on as shallow and empty:  "ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING" is key to so much and actually without it I am doomed. It took being humbled by the devastation of benzos for me to realise this - I am hopeful that humility may help me accept other valuable realities of life that, for all these years, I messed up on.

Omg!! It is like I wrote that and I agree... my mind, my thoughts are my worst enemy. Talk about foolishness... I have lived almost 3/4's of my life and I look back and see this mess of disasters, consquences and bad chooses littering my past. As I told my therapist last week... with many tears... I am a mess. And I've been laying in that mess for several years... almost giving up if not for my two boys.. the greatest gifts of my life.  Everyone has SOMETHING to be thankful for... even the air in their lungs or a new day.  We can not control the past but we can control how we respond to it and as you mentioned I've had some very unrealistic expectations about life, relationships, people and quality of sleep which is why I am on the insomnia forum.

I find myself talking myself into the day being ruined right when I open my eyes because I didn't get good sleep, had bad dreams, or whatever happened that was not what I had hoped for. You are so right when you write about our thoughts and I as well as you have learned through the suffering that comes from tolerance of Benzos and side effects through the last 15-years.  I believe as you explained that I need to knock out the expectations and just go with the flow of what the day brings... whether tired, rested or feeling bad. I just need to DO life and quit complaining and procrastinating. I just love your post... thank you so much! Your insights and words of wisdom are priceless! 

Omg!! It is like I wrote that and I agree... my mind, my thoughts are my worst enemy. Talk about foolishness... I have lived almost 3/4's of my life and I look back and see this mess of disasters, consquences and bad chooses littering my past. As I told my therapist last week... with many tears... I am a mess. And I've been laying in that mess for several years... almost giving up if not for my two boys.. the greatest gifts of my life.  Everyone has SOMETHING to be thankful for... even the air in their lungs or a new day.  We can not control the past but we can control how we respond to it and as you mentioned I've had some very unrealistic expectations about life, relationships, people and quality of sleep which is why I am on the insomnia forum.

 

I find myself talking myself into the day being ruined right when I open my eyes because I didn't get good sleep, had bad dreams, or whatever happened that was not what I had hoped for. You are so right when you write about our thoughts and I as well as you have learned through the suffering that comes from tolerance of Benzos and side effects through the last 15-years.  I believe as you explained that I need to knock out the expectations and just go with the flow of what the day brings... whether tired, rested or feeling bad. I just need to DO life and quit complaining and procrastinating. I just love your post... thank you so much! Your insights and words of wisdom are priceless! 

Wow! Looking at my post and your response I can see I am far more open than I would normally be because of the anonymity provided on this forum. Which is a good thing. You should be pleased that you see things as you do, it is wonderful to realise and admit to ourselves and others what our mistakes are, pride and just not realising it prevents many from seeing their faults. The realisations come with regrets, absolutely, but I hope we see the opportunities too, latch on to them and just move on and live and let the plain richness of living edge out the regrets with time.

I have been reading up a lot about addiction lately because I am concerned about my eating  - I have gained some weight but not too much - better to take action before it gets serious though. The literature on addiction is mostly good solid stuff, here and there is some liberal "science" and pseudoscience but not much. There is a strong theme that appeals to me lately in all this addiction literature - "the mind is a child and you must control it" and " the mind is a organ and just like you cannot stop your stomach from digesting or your heart from pumping so too you cannot stop your mind from thinking, give it freedom and like a bored puppy and it will chew on valuable things" and "the mind is a wonderful servant but terrible master" and lastly "the mind is like a bad neighbourhood, you never go there alone".

This may be old hat to some but it is medicine to me. I was never taught to watch my thoughts, to keep them in check, not to fall in love with the ongoing conversation in my mind - I had to stay busy and on schedule etc. As benzos turned me into a mindless zombie I believe I started thinking too much - and, over the years the lack of objectivity, variety etc takes it toll - I think too much personal self talk has been insidious and seduced me - causing many more issues than  I even realise to date - including anxiety.

So, I see many commercially orientated, rehab places with drug awareness websites that offer treatment for benzos - they say that the underlying cause that made you use benzos will still be there when you stop benzos - they use it like ammunition or as scare tactics so that you "rather go with the pro's"  who can council you too when you stop the poison. Being aware of the reason why you started and dealing with such issues is important but it is not universal - many people started benzos because they had an intensly stressfull couple of days, weeks or months - they started benzos because doctors suggested them - not because they have a genetic disposition or a poor stress response - everyone gets stressed sometimes - even the best - knock, knock, marketing opportunity - doc says; " just try these, they will help". Back to the ongoing self talk - I have too much of it - I am distracted by it, allow it too much air time in my daily schedule. Benzos subdued me so that now too much self talk in my head is the norm - not because of mental issues but because I have been exhausted, finished, since 2001 - I had a lot of time to just sit there or lie there - not bloody sleeping and you cannot turn off the radio that is your mind. This developed while I was on benzos as I was busy and healthy before benzos and had no serious underlying issues. I got panic attacks because I went through 6 months of traumatic life events outside of my and my loved ones control. Me dealing with too much self talk is now the only thing thus far that I can identify as being a current stress amplifier that can induce panic if not managed. "What if" talk can eventually be perceived as if it really will happen which precipitates anxiety or worse, a panic attack.

Too much self talk and I do not sleep! I had 3 nights of 7 hours in a row this week. I believe this is the first time that happened to me since February 1995. When I posted this subject I hardly had 7 hour nights - now I think I am getting at least one or two a week. I see you are down to below 0.25mg Klon on a liquid taper. Well done! Please persevere, I get frustrated with individuals here who perform the miracle of tapering and jumping only to get stuck on the train of thought that there is some drug or supplement out there that will ease withdrawals or help with sleep.... it is ironic to me  - the most promoted of substances are the ones that alter brain chemical messengers... like the benzos are the only bad ones when it comes to mind altering, life destroying drugs.... and if they are "natural" then even better  - as if the compounds are not made up of atoms or something... sorry, I do not want any compounds besides good food, lots of exercise and a concerted effort at driving the bad habits and ways of living and thinking out of my life. Earlier, in another area on BB I asked some hard questions about marijuana and got called sanctimonious  - I do understand that most of the above, if not all, is my opinion and I just hope it starts a positive train of thought in someone who reads it. I am also aware that the little bit of good sleep I am getting is just early days and it can all change overnight and I can be back in Benzonia - which is unlikely to occur if I have balance.

I wish you every success, with or without aids, may you find happiness like you best remember it. Thank you for your time.

What a great thread. Such hopefulness, and all of you are fairly positive despite what you are going through. Raquel, you are a gem. Truly. Your wisdom is wonderful.

Strive, you are obviously equally intelligent and thoughtful. These are very good qualities to have getting through BWD.

Insomnia: I had severe insomnia after I went CT off a boatload of benzos and ADs. For about a year I did not sleep at all. NO LIE. I just lay there trying not to panic. Maybe because I am an RN I sort of knew I would not die from this but that did not help me feel any better. OMG what a horrible first year I had. I no longer need to detail that horror as it is almost 7 years since this started. I do know what I went through and will never really forget that. But no longer do I focus my energy on benzo WD.

In my second year, I discovered sleep hypnosis videos on YouTube. I tried them and at first the dyd not seem to work. But I stuck it out and after a few weeks, they most definitely DID work. I was able to fall asleep, which felt like a bloody miracle to me. I would still wake often but sleeping at ALL was wonderful. I continued to listen to those videos for several years and eventually, I could fall asleep and stay asleep all night. Even NOW I sometimes listen to those same recordings. They really can help with insomnia. If anyone is interested in which videos I listened to, PM me. I would be glad to share.

east.....a seasoned warrior

Hi everyone,

 

Historically I spent more time on the post withdrawal recovery support page, now, from my perspective, I have improved so much that I spend more time on this insomnia page.

 

I was on benzos for 22 years, it started with panic attacks, but ultimately I stayed on them because of sleep. I was in constant rebound and I did not have the insight, discipline or information to attempt a taper and to review my ways of thinking pertaining to anxiety. The doctors did not, and still mostly do not have an Ashton mentality regarding benzos.

 

So, long story short, I tapered for 9 months which was hard but the first 8 months post jump was tougher for me, more frequent and powerful withdrawals but I kept on working full time but took days off at times.

 

My sleep has drastically improved in the last year - there are cycles of good and bad periods but the good periods are getting longer. I have not had a bad spell of sleep for 5 weeks now. I get mostly 6 and a bit hours a night. 7 and 8 are rare. I have seen recently that if I choose to sleep more in the morning I can do so easily now - but I choose to get up and try stick to some sort of semblance of a routine. I am still quite sensitive to caffeine and drink coffee rarely, but I do feel the caffeine kick now which I never did during and before benzos.

 

So I do have occasional bad nights - but for 3 maybe 4 months now a bad night is 3 or 4 hours sleep as opposed to the dreaded zero hours perceived sleep we all know so well... I saw I was more tired after good sleep and performed better at work after bad nights - anecdotally. I see this much less now. I am still tired after good nights but I am more confident and can see I am coming alive again - people at work also see many improvements - even my wife too.

 

Pain killers, antihistamines or any proven sleep aid helps me for up to three nights and then they ruin everything for a week or so. So I really avoid them now.

 

I do not wake up refreshed - I do not know what that is but I am better in so many ways I am even getting on top of my diet. I get this "cool"  feeling in my neck and back occasionally and it may last an hour - after explaining it to many people they now say it is the "refreshed" feeling. I do not remember it like that, but good sleep ended for me in February 1995...

 

3 out of 5 nights I get really sleepy once I lay in bed and relax..... it is a wonderful feeling, and then sleep.... other nights it is not so powerful but I fall asleep anyway. I was waking up for about two hours a night at 2 or 3 am  - that is down to 30 mins now. I then sleep another hour or two, depending and then get going.

 

 

 

I cycle a lot of local mountain bike routes for sleep  - about 60 to 90 miles a week. It helps  - difficult to start but great once you are doing it. Cardio does it for me - I know some people prefer the gym, most exercise is good.

 

I am thankful to be at this stage, I know it can turn, but it seems almost impossible. I recall the words from the Ashton manual regarding sleep; "There are powerful natural mechanisms in the body which ensure that the brain does not become severely sleep-deprived." and "The need for sleep is so powerful that normal sleep will eventually reassert itself."

 

Restless legs and the jerks becoming less frequent and less bothersome....after all these years I am reaping a reward for a change.....

I am less then half off Clonazepam... I will actually be 3/4th through my taper in a few months! I think I have already experienced some of the withdrawals since I am at such a low dose now... less than 0.25 mg's. I started at 1mg and have tapered after being on this med for almost twenty years!  I've been so scared thinking that I'm going to have to work tired, etc but my desire to get off this is greater than my fear.  I have been drinking liquid (titrating) for about 1.5 years and it's a lot of work so I don't want to throw all that work away.  Your success has brought me much courage and motivation and I thank you for sharing.  There is a lot of horror stories here and reading those doesn't help although I know we all need to vent but it's nice to read a success story.  This has been a journey for sure and a difficult one.  May you continue to heal and get better!!  Blessings and gongrats!!!