I goofed up last night--what to do tonight

Hi:  I have been titrating off my last .25 mg Clonazapam over the past couple of months.  I have been dissolving 1 mg pill in 2 ml water and adding 38 ml water after it has dissolved.  I've been holding at 8 ml of tincture or 20% of 1 mg for 15 days and was ready to step down last night.  I accidentally only put 30 ml liquid into jar  and took 7 ml of tincture which doing my math isn't too much more but symptoms were definable.  I slept hard last night and too much today. 

I want to stay at 7 ml of 40 and not go back up.  I have my daughter's wedding coming up in may and it is my goal to get this out of my system before. Symptoms tough but doable.

Please help me decide if 1 day can completely undo the progress I have made.

 

Thank you so much for any help.

 

2002 through 2018 2 mg C nightly.

I started this plan right when I found BB and didn't know much. Knew I had to taper because I had a mild heart jumping off 1 mg C after 18 years.

Started Charting December 29th

Titrating  10% every 10 days to 2 weeks

Going to try 5% every 5 to 7 days

You're "dissolving" your Klonopin in water or alcohol?

I'm dissolving it like a buddy told me, first in 2 ml of alcohol and then adding water.  I used just water at first and shook it well but could tell it was not evenly dispersed.

Thank you for asking.

 

Klonkar

I'm dissolving it like a buddy told me, first in 2 ml of alcohol and then adding water.  I used just water at first and shook it well but could tell it was not evenly dispersed.

Thank you for asking.

 

Klonkar

 

Ah. That's what I do. 

Klon,

You haven't messed anything up. Hardly. You made a  minor error, that is all. You are a human like all of us and you made a boo boo. You have not done anything awful. You will recover from this.

I am a bit surprised that people are mixing benzos into alcohol. Alcohol works EXTREMELY similarly to benzos. They work on the brain just as benzos do. The numb the fear center of your brain. And alcohol withdrawal is a bit similar to benzo withdrawal.

 

I didnt not taper. I went CT. No choice in it. I was forced to and thank heavens I was! Is  mixing alcohol with benzos a normal practice when tapering?

It's just used as a solvent, east. A very small amount is needed to make a 2 week batch, ends up being just a drop or two a day. They use it in some of the Rx liquids, too.

 

Klonkar, I think you'll be just fine. Just be patient and things will even out. I think you are fine staying with the lower dose. Just add the extra 10 ml to your liquid to bring it up to 40 like you've been doing, and continue dosing the 7 ml. You got this. You could also always do 7.5, since I assume you have a syringe with markings.

Thank you again Wavesontheshore:  I decided to stay at 7 ml like you suggested and the next morning had my usual taper issues. 

 

I have another question if I may ask?  I want to be sure my numbers are correct.  I believe I am titrating down .05 every 2 weeks or so, while it looks like you are going down .125 a little more often.  The only way I can relate to how much C I am tapering is by comparing the C. to valium as I took this only two times in my life and it knocked me out cold.  I think I am tapering down the equivalent of 1 mg valium every two weeks. Is this too much too fast?

 

I have had some new symptoms:  I woke up the first day at 7 ml and couldn't walk with such sever hip pain.  Out of the blue.  Used ice and cold and in two days after a short nap the symptom was literally gone.  I am sure this was a C issue.

 

The other thing is that, unlike most BB I have read about, I am sleeping 7 hrs a night but falling asleep during the day for an hour or two more than once sometimes.  This seems to be so unlike anything else I have read, I go back to thinking there must be something else wrong with me.  I have not been able to sleep during the day for years, 17 in fact, until I started my taper off these benzos.  Any thoughts.

 

I am so happy for your support and know you are iconic in my world and I am so happy for your great progress. 

Klonkar

Thanks, Waves. I am always learning something new.

Klonkar, I realized that withdrawal symptoms can be just about anything. All those weird symptoms come from your brain and the gaba receptors all through your body (I am simplifying this a lot!). I think you should be GLAD you can sleep so well, even though now you sometimes sleep during the day.

Do you work?? Or are you able to just stay home and ride this out?

east

Klonkar,

 

First of all, thank you. I'm happy for your progress, too.

 

My signature is a little misleading about the nature of my taper because I am doing a microtaper, so I cut every day or every other day, not every 5 or 10 days. I recommend this approach because I think it's gentler. I'm not sure what you are pointing out about the different amounts we are tapering by, but as to whether it is too fast, that is really a subjective thing. For me? It would be too fast. I am being cautious. If you are taking 8 ml and drop to 7 ml, that is a 12.5% drop. In my opinion, no matter how long you hold after, that seems too fast because that change is made in one day. Does that make sense? Whereas, if you were cutting 1/10 of a ml every other day, that would be 20 days to make that same cut, so you wouldn't need to hold after. Does this make sense?

 

Also, I re-read your original post and did the math and if you used the same 1 MG of drug, but only mixed it either 3p ml total instead of 40, and dosed 7 out of that, that was actually an updose, not a cut. So sticking with dosing 7 out of the 40 would be a cut from what you were previously doing, but a big cut from what you were doing by mistake. I will illustrate.

 

8 ÷ 40 = 0.2 MG

7 ÷ 30 = 0.23 MG

7 ÷ 40 = 0.175 MG

 

I believe this is too big a cut. I would go back to dosing 8 ml of your 40 ml mixture for at least a week before cutting again. Then, I would advise considering using the smaller markings on your syringe to make smaller cuts more often.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Fyi, there is no teal reason to look at amountsome or compare to the equivalent Valium dose. Cuts are felt by percentage, so you only need to see what percentage of your total remaining dose you are removing. Most people cannot tolerate more than a 10% cut every 2 weeks. Since going from 8 ml to 7 ml (1÷8=0.125 = 12.5%) is a 12.5% cut, most people would be symptomatic following a cut like this. The amount, itself, doesn't matter. Do you see?

 

Hope this helps.

 

P.S. I don't know if I would pin the hip pain on w/d, (all respect to East, of course) isn't it simpler just to say what you would have if you weren't on this awful drug? "Probably just slept on it wrong. Gotta love gettin' older" or something like that. Sometimes it is good to evaluate your thoughts for their usefulness to you, instead of just wondering if you are right or not.

Klon,

You haven't messed anything up. Hardly. You made a  minor error, that is all. You are a human like all of us and you made a boo boo. You have not done anything awful. You will recover from this.

I am a bit surprised that people are mixing benzos into alcohol. Alcohol works EXTREMELY similarly to benzos. They work on the brain just as benzos do. The numb the fear center of your brain. And alcohol withdrawal is a bit similar to benzo withdrawal.

 

I didnt not taper. I went CT. No choice in it. I was forced to and thank heavens I was! Is  mixing alcohol with benzos a normal practice when tapering?

*** I know Right...!! -the sneeky buggers..!!  Lol

 

Thanks Annie.. -gave me a big smile...

All the best with everything...

 

 

 

To Waves and eastcoast62:

 

Thank you both for your thoughts and the time you took to respond.  I have been self employed all of my life and I am now 68.  My life work is in real estate rentals

and flipping houses.  I've always been able to work 8 to 16 hrs a day hard physical labor till 7 years ago after I was hit with spinal meningitis or I thought.  Maybe

it was just a sudden crash from being on benzos for 11 years.  Doesn't matter now but I do have the ability to stay home and recover.  I am by myself so I have to

get to the store, buy food and cook and do as much as I can.  Actually the akathasia forces me to get my bum up and do things

 

It's been 5 days I believe since I posted my question about the 1 day slip up.  Since I didn't get a quick response I held at 7 ml out of 40 ml tincture.  My symptoms,

especially the pressure on my head (feels like a big rubber compression stocking, lol) is pretty severe with some periods of relief.

But it sounds like you all feel that titrating 1 ml out of 40 (with 1mg dissolved) is an ok taper.  I am going to try to hold for 8 to 10 days.  I guess there is no hurring

the healing but it makes sense to me that if I am not feeling any worse and getting the drug out then I am actually getting better.  Make sense?

 

My best to you all and just having you all respond is huge in mylife.

God bless

 

1/18/19 -2/3/2019 10 ml or .25 C  (using 40 ml total liquid)

2/4/2019--2/16 8 ml or .20mg C.

2/18/2019 goofed: 7 ml out of 30 big mistake

2/19/201-2/22/2019 7 ml  and holding

In my last post, I tried to communicate that I do NOT think that cutting 1ml out of your 40ml mixture is a good or safe taper rate. I think I even recommended going back up in dose. Please will you re-read my post? I think it is important.

I cannot help you with your titration issues as I truly did got CT.

I too am self employed. I worked as an RN for 30 some years and had to quit due to injuries I sustained due to benzos (which affected my balance so badly I used to fall every single day.) I put my nursing license on retired status. I am currently trying to find the money to get it reinstated into active status. I am your age. I will turn 69 in March, God help me!

 

I like your attitude! Akisthesia (which I still cant spell-) is miserable but if you use it for good things like being active, it wont hurt you. I used that weird energy just as you do. I had to get up and do stuff otherwise the torture of jerking and internal vibrations, etc., made me so uncomfortable I thought I was gonna lose it entirely. Combine that stuff with extreme fear and anxiety...NOT a good thing!

 

I think you are going to do just fine. I can sense that you have a ghood grasp on withdrawal crap, and can deal with it come what may. That is exactly how you will get through The Benzo WD Maze. Step by step, finding your way through it slowly, making errors and backtracking but always moving forward. Wish I could advise yoou on your taper. That is just not something I know about at all.Feel free to PM me if you need private support.

east

 

Wavesontheshore and eastcoast62:

 

I took a few days off BB to chill but wanted to respond to you both.  Waves I am only tapering off 1/40th  of 1 mg every two weeks which is .0250,  not .250 or 10 or 10%.  But, I am going to take your advice and cut that in half, to .0175 and taper as often as I can.  I have had a pretty tough time holdiing at 17.5% of 1 mg but this morning I woke up to my first real window in about 3 months or since I started my taper plan.  My head pressure was only on one side and I had a stuffed up nose.  Eyes didnt burn so badly, arm rash had subsided but in exchange my heart was beating irregularly.  Yes at least their was a change.  I really appreciate your concern.

 

Eastcoast:  I don't know how to PM you.  All I see is Post, Preview, Spell Check.  I am also wondering why some posts end up highlighted in purple.  I have found replies

to my posts hidden here.  I do think we could be friends as it sounds like you have been through a lot but you sound super strong.  I can't imagine what u went through CT.

Aaargh.

 

For now holding at .1750 mg C

Waves I am only tapering off 1/40th  of 1 mg every two weeks which is .0250,  not .250 or 10 or 10%.  But, I am going to take your advice and cut that in half, to .0175 and taper as often as I can.  I have had a pretty tough time holdiing at 17.5% of 1 mg but this morning I woke up to my first real window in about 3 months or since I started my taper plan.  My head pressure was only on one side and I had a stuffed up nose.  Eyes didnt burn so badly, arm rash had subsided but in exchange my heart was beating irregularly.  Yes at least their was a change.  I really appreciate your concern.

 

Eastcoast:  I don't know how to PM you.  All I see is Post, Preview, Spell Check.  I am also wondering why some posts end up highlighted in purple.

 

For now holding at .1750 mg C

 

Okay, a couple of things. First, so happy that you are having a window. That's something to celebrate!

 

Next, 0.025 is 14.3% of 0.175. (0.025 ÷ 0.175 = 0.1428) You calculate percentage from current dose. And yes, 14.3% is a very large cut. If you cut 0.0175 instead, that is a 10% cut. This is a bit better but I still wouldn't recommend cutting that much all at once. You are causing yourself unnecessary suffering.

 

The whole point of a liquid taper is the ability to make very small cuts to have a gentler taper with fewer symptoms. If you want to do 10% every 2 weeks, you need to cut 0.7 ml over the course of 2 weeks. So what you could do, with a 1 ml oral syringe, is this:

 

Day 1) 6.95 ml

Day 2) 6.90 ml

Day 3) 6.85 ml

Day 4) 6.80 ml

Day 5) 6.75 ml

Day 6) 6.70 ml

Day 7) 6.65 ml

Day 6.60 ml

Day 9) 6.55 ml

Day 10) 6.50 ml

Day 11) 6.45 ml

Day 12) 6.40 ml

Day 13) 6.35 ml

Day 14) 6.30 ml

 

See? Or you could drop 0.1 ml every other day. That would work, too. All you need is your 1 ml syringe.

 

As far as sending a p.m., you first have to click on someone'special username to see their profile. Then, on the left hand side, you will see the option "send p.m."

 

And the text you see highlighted in purple is text that has been "quoted" by someone in order to draw direct reference to what they are going to reply to, as I did above.

 

Hope that clears some things up.

Waves:  I guess I am doing a weird taper as I started it  before I found BB.  I am tapering the same amount every 2 weeks based on the original dose.  So every cut is exactly .025 or 1/40 which cant be 10 or 12 percent. It's actually 2.5 percent.  I hope this makes more sense to you.  I do understand how you are tapering and that might be better but so far this is manageable.  So sorry for the confusion.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Klonkar,

To PM someone, click on their name. That will lead you to a screen where my Profile is. One of the choices is something like Send a Pm. Click on it and there you go.

I don't come here a lot, once a day. But I always answer PMs. People in trouble often PM me abnd I truly enjoy trying to help others.

If you still have trouble with PM'ing me let me know on this thread. Benzo WD makes our minds pretty stupid! And figuring out how to PM someone is an great example of this. I had trouble figuring this out too. I am not computer savvy at all.

east

Klon,

You haven't messed anything up. Hardly. You made a  minor error, that is all. You are a human like all of us and you made a boo boo. You have not done anything awful. You will recover from this.

I am a bit surprised that people are mixing benzos into alcohol. Alcohol works EXTREMELY similarly to benzos. They work on the brain just as benzos do. The numb the fear center of your brain. And alcohol withdrawal is a bit similar to benzo withdrawal.

 

I didnt not taper. I went CT. No choice in it. I was forced to and thank heavens I was! Is  mixing alcohol with benzos a normal practice when tapering?

*** I know Right...!! -the sneeky buggers..!!  Lol

 

Thanks Annie.. -gave me a big smile...

All the best with everything...

 

Lol I never drank a lot & quit except for a couple of times a year in my 30s. There’s 20 ml of vodka in my 200 ml of liquid & that lasts about 3 weeks or longer. 😬