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Need some taper advice


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Started taper from 1 mg ativan December 3. Down to .190 mg/day over two doses to avoid interdose withdrawal. Seem to have hit a sx wall. Maybe too fast?

 

Better to a] continue taper at .0050 mg/day, b]hold at the .190 or c] go back to .250 and hold until stable then continue.

 

Have a two week cruise in three weeks which is probably adding to anxiety and need to get through that. Almost tempted to go back to the 1 mg/day and start all over when back :-(

 

Any thoughts/advice/feedback appreciated.

 

I hate this stuff. Once through this all tossed. Never again.

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I am not familiar with Ativan (Valium is my benzo beast). What percentage cuts are you making and how often?

 

have you thought about a micro-taper...or maybe you are doing that already.

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Tapering at .010 mg/day which is about 26% drop every two weeks from the initial start. Figured with the lower start dose and that had only be using steady for about 3-4 weeks [1 mg/day] that the faster rate could be handled.

 

Seem to have hit a bit of a wall :-( so trying to figure out next best steps.

 

Hold and suck it up or increase dose for a few weeks and hold and then continue with slower microtaper???

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you were taking 1 mg per day in December now you're down to 0.19 mg? That is too fast. But I think you might be confusing pill weights with drug weight. Are you doing dry weights?
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[30...]

You started your taper from 1mg Ativan December 3 and you're currently at .190 mg/day divided in to 2 doses, correct?

 

That does seem to be quite a fast taper. Since you are experiencing symptoms that seem to be too much for you:

1) hold until symptoms lessen

2) most definitely lower your cut

3) I would personally hold and possibly dose correct to .5, enjoy your vacation then resume after much slower.

 

Just for some perspective, 1mg Ativan = 10 mgs Valium. There's no way I'd be able to taper that amount in 2 months.

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You are tapering way too fast. I would listen to what everyone is saying. I would go 10% every 2 weeks at the fastest. A rapid taper, like a cold turkey, can be a recipe for disaster when you finally jump off the drug.

 

I am doing a DLMT, starting at 5% every 2 weeks - I will go slower (or maybe faster) depending on my s/x - it's a bummer that tapers take so long but slow is the way to go.

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Am doing a liquid taper [dissolved in vodka] and probably the .190 mg is equal to 1mg of valium/day

 

Correct am at .190 mg per day over two doses.

 

Figured given start amounts a faster taper ok and was cruising along with some bumps. Think benzo-off suggestion to hold and then resume much slower the way to go.

 

Appreciate all the feedback and any other input.

 

This is a great site for support

 

Just saw soberhope reply to go to 10% taper rate every two weeks which I will do. Plan to hold for a few weeks and then go to slower rate. Always tempted to increase dosage but know not the way to get through this

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BAC2GOOD - I think you will do great. 10% is the highest speed I would go. And that means 10% of your last dose, not 10% of your starting dose. I went fast at the start too and it hit me when I got much lower so now tapering much much slower.

 

Have a great time on the cruise - if you want to, you could hold at this dose and then taper when you get back.

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Looking back was more of 10% of start dose versus last dose and figured 10 weeks and done [.1mg per week].

 

Think am holding and doing another chart with much slower taper as suggested when back. Thanx :-)

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I read your signature and you weren’t on it long enough to have considerable GABA-A downregulation. I would hold for a week or so and then continue down but honestly between the short half-life and how little you were taking it consistently, I would say that a lot of this is being brought on by your knowledge of people having problems rather than actual problems.
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I agree with you and thought about that as well but have used off and on for 20 years as needed and never two days in a row and can tell the symptoms from paresthesia, neck pain, anxiety etc. Was quite surprised after the 4-6 week period when just tried to stop and issues arose. Once in a taper [suggested by FD] I guess have been using although at taper rates for another two plus months so don't know if that just adds to issue? Looking back perhaps given the amount and length of time I perhaps should have just stopped.

 

May just be having a bit of a bump in the road so will do the hold and see how goes as you suggest.

 

Appreciate the feedback.

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I agree with you and thought about that as well but have used off and on for 20 years as needed and never two days in a row and can tell the symptoms from paresthesia, neck pain, anxiety etc. Was quite surprised after the 4-6 week period when just tried to stop and issues arose. Once in a taper [suggested by FD] I guess have been using although at taper rates for another two plus months so don't know if that just adds to issue? Looking back perhaps given the amount and length of time I perhaps should have just stopped.

 

May just be having a bit of a bump in the road so will do the hold and see how goes as you suggest.

 

Appreciate the feedback.

 

I mean you definitely would experience some degree of symptoms obviously, it’s just the long lasting symptoms that I highly doubt. Everyone has discomfort stopping benzos after a period of time (normally 4-6 weeks is the minimum), the degree just seems to vary from one person to the next.

 

There’s never anything wrong with being cautious, however. It’s always better to be safe than sorry with these meds.

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Thank-you.  Comment on long lasting results not likely is reassuring and appreciated. Reflecting wonder if the current dose at .190 [equal to 1 mg valium] is low enough to just stop and let it clear system over 72 hours and be done with it given that the initial dosage and time frame on the low end of usage? Might be a few miserable days?

 

Thoughts??

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I read your signature and you weren’t on it long enough to have considerable GABA-A downregulation. I would hold for a week or so and then continue down but honestly between the short half-life and how little you were taking it consistently, I would say that a lot of this is being brought on by your knowledge of people having problems rather than actual problems.

 

This is not fair to say for those of us who did take a drug briefly and have suffered. I took klonopin for 2 months before trying to discontinue, made a too big cut and suffered for nearly 3 months, have been tapering slowly since. There are exceptions to every rule, and there is no rulebook for this to begin with!

 

Bac2good, you definitely have tapered too fast. I would slow it down or hold and re-evaluate. I would not jump from 0.190 A, that is equivalent to 1.9 mg V, not 1 mg. Recommended jump dose is 0.05, even if you doubled that it would be 0.1. Better safe than sorry is good advice.

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All the input is welcomed. Is that .05 of ativan for recommended jump dose or .05 of valium? Head says go slow and heart says get off this stuff. All the feedback says use your head so will hold for a week and then slow the taper to .005 or maybe less for as long as it takes to get brain re-adjusted.

Wavesontheshore just looked at your taper rate and maybe even drop my rate to .0033. Better safe than sorry as you note :-)

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0.05 for A, 0.5 for V. A lot of people here taper down to zero. Really depends on symptoms. Symptoms are your body's way of telling you to slow down, so it's a good idea to listen.

 

I totally get it about the head and the heart. I think the often forgotten "gut" is where these decisions are made, using intuition, being keyed into our connection to ourself, to our possible futures. Now that your body has given you a warning, a call to action, you have the chance to make that connection and smooth the path before you. :)

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I read your signature and you weren’t on it long enough to have considerable GABA-A downregulation. I would hold for a week or so and then continue down but honestly between the short half-life and how little you were taking it consistently, I would say that a lot of this is being brought on by your knowledge of people having problems rather than actual problems.

 

This is not fair to say for those of us who did take a drug briefly and have suffered. I took klonopin for 2 months before trying to discontinue, made a too big cut and suffered for nearly 3 months, have been tapering slowly since. There are exceptions to every rule, and there is no rulebook for this to begin with!

 

Bac2good, you definitely have tapered too fast. I would slow it down or hold and re-evaluate. I would not jump from 0.190 A, that is equivalent to 1.9 mg V, not 1 mg. Recommended jump dose is 0.05, even if you doubled that it would be 0.1. Better safe than sorry is good advice.

 

2 months with Klonopin is more than enough to do it (Klonopin’s a lot stronger both in dose and effect on the BZD receptors than Ativan is).

 

I am not trying to disparage anyone’s experience but from a scientific standpoint, the neuroadaptation that happens with GABA receptor downregulation takes at least a month to happen but with Ativan and Valium, it’s more likely closer to two months.

 

Bac2Good, you’ve been on the taper already so you should continue on with it at the recommended taper rates.

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2 months with Klonopin is more than enough to do it (Klonopin’s a lot stronger both in dose and effect on the BZD receptors than Ativan is).

 

I am not trying to disparage anyone’s experience but from a scientific standpoint, the neuroadaptation that happens with GABA receptor downregulation takes at least a month to happen but with Ativan and Valium, it’s more likely closer to two months.

 

EtherealRemnant -

 

This is very interesting data.  Could you please provide a study reference?

 

Much appreciated,

sierra

 

 

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2 months with Klonopin is more than enough to do it (Klonopin’s a lot stronger both in dose and effect on the BZD receptors than Ativan is).

 

I am not trying to disparage anyone’s experience but from a scientific standpoint, the neuroadaptation that happens with GABA receptor downregulation takes at least a month to happen but with Ativan and Valium, it’s more likely closer to two months.

 

EtherealRemnant -

 

This is very interesting data.  Could you please provide a study reference?

 

Much appreciated,

sierra

 

I would have to do some digging on a site that is a multiple trigger factor for me and we aren’t allowed to talk about here.

 

But the thing is that it’s highly dependent anyway. Benzodiazepines have receptor subtypes that they prefer at lower doses but higher doses they are ligands for the same subtypes as each other.

 

This one is public and it’s a nice hefty read (too much for me to even skim with my sxs right now, sorry) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3321276/

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For what it is worth I did not read anything disparaging in your comment. I went back to edit my signature as had been on the ativan longer than I thought [OCD has me write down every pill I ever take :-)] and was on longer than I had originally noted. This is a learning journey and the more I learn the better I can cope and hopefully avoid any future issues with any benzo. Every and all comments are taken as support and appreciated. Great site. Wish I had found when I started out on tapering. Would have avoided some mis-steps
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I am glad you didn’t take my encouragement as being disparaging. I can see how it can be taken that why by other people reading it but it was specifically meant for you.

 

6 weeks is definitely on the border and then you’ve got the past history of sporadic usage so yes, definitely do the taper nice and slow. DLMT should be cake if you do it slowly enough, that’s kind of the point is to taper at a rate that your brain doesn’t really notice. :)

 

I love this site. I was on a Facebook group and I left after getting reprimanded for pointing out someone was on a medication that can throw you into benzo withdrawal. This community here is all I need.  :smitten:

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2 months with Klonopin is more than enough to do it (Klonopin’s a lot stronger both in dose and effect on the BZD receptors than Ativan is).

 

I am not trying to disparage anyone’s experience but from a scientific standpoint, the neuroadaptation that happens with GABA receptor downregulation takes at least a month to happen but with Ativan and Valium, it’s more likely closer to two months.

 

EtherealRemnant -

 

This is very interesting data.  Could you please provide a study reference?

 

Much appreciated,

sierra

 

I would have to do some digging on a site that is a multiple trigger factor for me and we aren’t allowed to talk about here.

 

But the thing is that it’s highly dependent anyway. Benzodiazepines have receptor subtypes that they prefer at lower doses but higher doses they are ligands for the same subtypes as each other.

 

This one is public and it’s a nice hefty read (too much for me to even skim with my sxs right now, sorry) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3321276/

 

Apologies for hijacking the thread. Thanks for this reference. 

 

sierra

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Sierra7 a question if I may. I see in your signature you went from the single dose 1mg of ativan to 4 daily daily doses of the 1mg and then tapered. Any issues with that? Am at 2 doses a day and wonder if splitting dose further to three or four would smooth out taper and sx's?? Thanx
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Hello B2G,

 

Happy to share my experience with a fellow traveller.  :)

 

Yes - dosing 4x/day has substantially smoothed out my taper and allowed me to avoid interdose withdrawals.  Transitioning to a liquid microtaper has also been a key factor in smoothing out the ride. 

 

Since I was taking it primarily for sleep, my largest dose continues to be at bedtime. 

 

Here's my current dosing schedule for reference:

 

    6am    .1mg

  12pm    .1mg

    6pm    .1mg

  11pm    .2mg

 

I mostly adhere to this schedule, but allow some wiggle room.  An example would be, if I'm tired at 10, I'll dose & then go to bed rather than staying up til 11.

 

Hope this helps you design what works for best your success.  There's no one-size-fits-all. 

 

xo,

sierra  :smitten:

 

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