I Really Need Some Serious Advice Before I Totally Mess Up!

The more I try to figure out a taper plan, the more confused I get.  Help!

I know pills plus liquid should be used but when I entered my information into the Benzo Liquid Taper Plan on this site with pills, it shows to take cut tablets at different times and different amounts, but my capsules can’t be cut into smaller portions.  I don’t want to weigh them and do a liquid taper, so how do I get around this?  I would have to take a 10 mg as a pill since they don't come any smaller.

What I’ve entered into the plan follows.  Did I choose the right parameters?

15 mg tablet (capsule, in my case) size (I would use two of them)  Since they're capsules, would I put 30 mg here?

planned quit dose - .05 mg

3 doses of 10 mg each

number of tablets to dissolve – 10

total volume of liquid – 1500 (Or should this be 3000 if I put a 30 mg tablet on the first line, 2 @ 15mg each?)

planned reduction – 5% every 14 days

across doses  (Would first dose first be better?)

Of course, this is entered for straight liquid, so I’m clueless as to what I should or could do to be able to take a daily pill for a while if it is deemed necessary for my body to adjust to the liquid.  Would I do different plans for different times?  Like what if I don't want to dissolve that many pills (10) another time, then I'd have to redo the plan, right?

I'm told this is easy and maybe I'm overthinking it, but it doesn't seem easy to me at all.  If I were to do a one-day mix, that would make so much more sense to me, but it would be wasteful.

Thanks for any help I might receive.

I guess the concept of making a multi-day batch and simply drinking less each day for some reason seems hard to grasp for some folks.

Think of it like this:

Your doc gives you a scrip for a liquid med, and the dosing instructions are "Take 10 tsp the first day, then reduce the dose by 1tsp each day"

That's all there is to it.  Once you prepare you liquid, its no different than a bottle lf liquid you would get at the pharmacy.  And you just take a little less each day.

You can do this!

CAgirl are you still planning on using milk? Is 1500 ml necessary? This is a lot of liquid, like a quart of milk?

How many doses do you currently take per day? 2 or 3? Do you have the 15 MG tablets or 10 MG tablets? The info you entered doesn't seem consistent.

If you are dosing 2x/day with 15 MG capsules, and you are going to keep taking one of your capsules whole and just taper from the other one, I would choose "first dose first" and also do not select "combine with tablets". The schedule will show both doses in ml but the one that doesn't change for forever would be your tablet dose. Does this help at all?

If we can get all your preferences and details straight (see my questions above) I would be happy to run a schedule for you.

Also, fyi, If you had the 10 MG capsules it would be significantly simpler, gentler, and with more options than the 15s, I think.

CAgirl are you still planning on using milk? Is 1500 ml necessary? This is a lot of liquid, like a quart of milk?

 

Yes, still milk. I did run a plan and it starts out with the first dose at 98.93 ml.  The total of 1500 ml would be for all the days the 10 capsules were used for.  Anyway, the plan figured the 1500 based on 1 ml per milligram of pill as I only listed one 15 mg.  I'll really need to use two 15 mg and when I put that in, the plan changed the volume of liquid to 3000 ml. I was going to use 10 units or 15 mg pills, hence the high volume of liquid it figured.

 

How many doses do you currently take per day? 2 or 3? Do you have the 15 MG tablets or 10 MG tablets? The info you entered doesn't seem consistent.

 

As listed in my signature, I have both 15 mg and 10 mg to work with.  I am taking three 10 mg now since I bombed out at 25 mg (one 15 mg and one 10 mg).  I wanted to use up the 15 mg in the mix to equal 30 mg and then I figure I'd take a 10 mg pill off and on during the liquid doses.

 

If you are dosing 2x/day with 15 MG capsules, and you are going to keep taking one of your capsules whole and just taper from the other one, I would choose "first dose first" and also do not select "combine with tablets". The schedule will show both doses in ml but the one that doesn't change for forever would be your tablet dose. Does this help at all?

 

Yes, that's what I was thinking earlier, but I'm dosing 3x with 10 mg, just using the 15 mg up for the mixture until they're gone and then I'll get another refill for the 10 mg.  Oh, so I can continue with a 10 mg pill until it changes on the schedule which, according to what I printed, would be day 187. That's great.  Since I couldn't lower them as shown when one chooses with pills, I was worried about that and not tapering the actual pill.

 

Yes, it helps.  I just need to fix that ridiculous volume of liquid.  That where I'm especially confused since the volume of liquid is 10 ml per mg and with these high mg oxazepam, it really fills it up.

 

If we can get all your preferences and details straight (see my questions above) I would be happy to run a schedule for you.

 

So, does this make sense?

 

tablet size 30 mg since two 15 mg equals 30

 

.5 quit dose

 

dose 1, 2, and 3 @ 10 mg each dose

 

number of tables to dissolve 10 (I really didn't know where to begin with this option.)

total volume of liquid (I can't rely on what it figures, so what would be the best?) I have an 800 ml Mason jar.  Would that work with 10 pills which would actually be 150 mg since they're only 15 mg each?  I can always do a different number for the capsules I want to dissolve.

 

Also, fyi, If you had the 10 MG capsules it would be significantly simpler, gentler, and with more options than the 15s, I think.

 

I will get to that point, but I sure would like to use up the 15 mg to equal 30 mg a day, but I do have the 10 mg to work with and to take orally.  It should work since 30 mg is 30 mg even if there are two 15mg or three 10mg.

 

Thank you so much for this help.  You're awesome!  I'm starting to understand it better. It's just confusing with these high-mg pills and all the volume it figures in when I will be making more than a day's worth.  Drinking that much milk wasn't thrilling me at all.

 

I guess the concept of making a multi-day batch and simply drinking less each day for some reason seems hard to grasp for some folks.

 

Think of it like this:

 

Your doc gives you a scrip for a liquid med, and the dosing instructions are "Take 10 tsp the first day, then reduce the dose by 1tsp each day"

 

That's all there is to it.  Once you prepare you liquid, its no different than a bottle lf liquid you would get at the pharmacy.  And you just take a little less each day.

 

You can do this!

Yes, I do understand the concept, but was wondering how the batch for days would work out as far as waste goes.  Maybe no waste?  I will work through this, trial and error, and get there.  The most confusing in the post above is the crazy volume but with waves assistance, I know she'll help me come up with something better than the plan itself figured on its own even though it figured correctly with how many ml I have to have.  My dumb benzo is so high on the mg scale, that the volume comes out nutty.

What if you did this?

10 - 15 MG capsules (150 mg)

300 ml milk

Ratio is 0.5mg/ml

(Since a 1 ml syringe has 50-100 markings on it, you can still make tiny cuts with this amount)

This would be 15 days worth of 10 mg doses, you could use your 10 mg capsules (whole) for your other two doses of the day.

How does this sound?

What if you did this?

10 - 15 MG capsules (150 mg)

300 ml milk

 

Ratio is 0.5mg/ml

(Since a 1 ml syringe has 50-100 markings on it, you can still make tiny cuts with this amount)

 

This would be 15 days worth of 10 mg doses, you could use your 10 mg capsules (whole) for your other two doses of the day.

 

How does this sound?

 

I was thinking to just take one pill a day, but I guess I could start with two and wean down to one. 

I realize the plan would figure in all liquid doses and I would be taking a pill for some of them, but it would be the right amount. 

So, cutting down to 0.5 mg/ml is okay, then?  I thought the ratio had too be 1 mg/10 ml.  Doesn't the concentration matter?  If 300 ml were used as you suggested, the concentration is 0.5 and the suggested is 0.1.  It would have to be 1500 ml to get to 0.1.

Sorry to be such a pill, no pun intended. 

Hey CAgirl,

I have run the schedule for you and was going to save it as a pdf and host it for you to download, but since updating my browser I am having some issues and one of them is that I am seemingly unable to print to pdf. Sorry. Anyway, I ran it with the following details and it looked clear and usable to me:

Size of tablet: 15 MG

Dose 1: 10 MG

Dose 2: 10 MG

Dose 3 : 10 MG

Number of tablets: 10

Volume of liquid: 300 ml

Reduction quantity: (blank)

Reduction percentage: 5%

Reduction period: 14 days

Combine with tablets: No

Attenuated ending: No

As far as keeping 1 dose or 2 in tablet form, it is always recommended to switch as little as possible over to liquid to start with. Some people have issues switching to liquid so this is in hopes of mitigating possible effects.

As to your question about the liquid volume, I assume Jim had it default to 1/10 because that makes the math simplest? Anyway, it really doesn't matter as long as you have enough liquid to draw up your doses and make small reductions. You could just as easily do 400 ml or 500 ml, and, truth be told, it wouldn't affect you if you were referring to the schedule. The 1/10 just makes the conversion math simpler (and the amount I chose seemed like second runner up for simple) but with the calculator you don't have to do the math.

As far as ratio affecting the actual liquid, since it is an emulsion, not a solution,  it doesn't really matter. As Builder has said, there isn't really any science to back up the milk method, but it works for a lot of people. The idea is that, since the drug is fat soluble, the drug will bind to the fat molocules in the milk, which are fairly evenly distributed. All benzos are somewhat fat soluble, though oxazepam is one of the least fat soluble of them.

Thank you bunches; I really appreciate all your help and time.  I will do this and hopefully, I will do well with the milk.  If not, I can always switch.  I will stick with the pills until the plan moves the mg down below 10 mg for doses 2 and 3.  I'm getting excited for success.

I hope to start Saturday next as for some reason, I started my taper on a Saturday back on December 15 like it was a must to not put it off any longer.  I'm still having issues moving back up to 30mg when I failed at 25mg, so I may have to put it off another week until my body is doing well again at 30mg.

I'm sure I'll be back with more questions, but now I feel confident for my upcoming liquid taper.

Thanks again!