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Vodka while making liquid Valium for DLMT


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I am probably being paranoid but I don't drink at all (even before benzos) and 80mil of vodka with 320mil of water (and 40mg of Valium, for a 14 day supply) seems like a few shots worth of vodka...worrying it will give me w/d s/x - in a window today so especially paranoid...

 

Any thoughts?

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I am probably being paranoid but I don't drink at all (even before benzos) and 80mil of vodka with 320mil of water (and 40mg of Valium, for a 14 day supply) seems like a few shots worth of vodka...worrying it will give me w/d s/x - in a window today so especially paranoid...

 

Any thoughts?

You need the Vodka so it can dissolve properly. Try not to overthink about the alcohol, I know for sure, it is much better than trying to cut pieces of pills when I got lower. Just relax and breathe, enjoy your window...do not borrow trouble...you got this. Also ask builder he will give you the reasons why you should not worry. 💖 Peace and Healing. :smitten:
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I am probably being paranoid but I don't drink at all (even before benzos) and 80mil of vodka with 320mil of water (and 40mg of Valium, for a 14 day supply) seems like a few shots worth of vodka...worrying it will give me w/d s/x - in a window today so especially paranoid...

 

Any thoughts?

 

That's a MAX of 2ml vodka (.8ml alcohol) per day.  That's .07 (7/100ths) of an ounce.  It would take about a month just to use enough to make a standard cocktail/highball.

 

Or you can keep doing it the hard way, or just stay on your diazepam!  ::)

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I’m right there with you Pete, but builder is totally right. If you are able to get 2mg tablets, you could hypothetically take no more than .5mg in liquid per day, which in a 1:10 solution is about 1ml of vodka if I’m not mistaken.
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Thanks Mili - I am so super sensitive now to making a mistake so I end up panicked and asking too many questions (and bothering kind and generous Builder).

 

I am going ahead with the liquid and not worrying about 80mill of vodka when it is mixed with 320mill of water - sounds very normal now to me.

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Also you could keep 2 MG of your dose in tablet form and taper from the other 1 MG, which reduces your alcohol intake by 2/3. I definitely think there are options here other than "do it this way or don't".
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I am probably being paranoid but I don't drink at all (even before benzos) and 80mil of vodka with 320mil of water (and 40mg of Valium, for a 14 day supply) seems like a few shots worth of vodka...worrying it will give me w/d s/x - in a window today so especially paranoid...

 

Any thoughts?

 

Hey Pete!

 

Like the others said, if you were to combine alcohol & tablets it is not a huge amount of alcohol. However I do understand your concern about it being to much alcohol and you have a valid point.

 

It can be complex figuring out the proper amount of ethanol/ vodka needed to make a viable solution.  To keep the process simple, I see where buddies suggest a general amount given as being "2ml per mg". For concerned members, who for what ever reason do not want to ingest excessive amounts of alcohol, the proper amount can be calculated.

 

The following graph can be used as a guide. Amount of alcohol is configured according to specific type of benzo being titrated and the grade of alcohol being used.

 

          click image

NWqT5Zt.png

    Graph made by SG57

 

Here is an example:

 

For Valium (according to the graph)

1 - 40 percent(80proof): 1ml alcohol will dissolve 3.5mg of Valium.

2 - 90 percentl(180proof): 1ml of alcohol will dissolve 38.5mg of Valium

 

So Pete, according to the graph 1ml will dissolve 3.5mg of Valium.

 

FYI, I successfully tapered using Everclear by putting 1ml of everclear into a 15ml vial along with a 10mg tablet of Valium and 9ml of water to make a 1:1 (1ml-1mg) solution.

 

Hope this info helps you  :smitten:

 

 

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Thanks Bella. I wish I could get over my fear of using alcohol which comes from hearing alcohol is a big no during tapering from Valium. I think I will go with the 2mil for 1mg as that math is easy for me and it's the plan I have now. I have pestered the kind buddie who helped me with a plan enough over my booze fears. It's hard to see things rationally when in the taper process.

 

I do think a DLMT will make my life easier though...

 

Thank you for the graph and all the info and your support!

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I am probably being paranoid but I don't drink at all (even before benzos) and 80mil of vodka with 320mil of water (and 40mg of Valium, for a 14 day supply) seems like a few shots worth of vodka...worrying it will give me w/d s/x - in a window today so especially paranoid...

 

Any thoughts?

 

Hey Pete!

 

Like the others said, if you were to combine alcohol & tablets it is not a huge amount of alcohol. However I do understand your concern about it being to much alcohol and you have a valid point.

 

It can be complex figuring out the proper amount of ethanol/ vodka needed to make a viable solution.  To keep the process simple, I see where buddies suggest a general amount given as being "2ml per mg". For concerned members, who for what ever reason do not want to ingest excessive amounts of alcohol, the proper amount can be calculated.

 

The following graph can be used as a guide. Amount of alcohol is configured according to specific type of benzo being titrated and the grade of alcohol being used.

 

          click image

NWqT5Zt.png

    Graph made by SG57

 

Here is an example:

 

For Valium (according to the graph)

1 - 40 percent(80proof): 1ml alcohol will dissolve 3.5mg of Valium.

2 - 90 percentl(180proof): 1ml of alcohol will dissolve 38.5mg of Valium

 

So Pete, according to the graph 1ml will dissolve 3.5mg of Valium.

 

FYI, I successfully tapered using Everclear by putting 1ml of everclear into a 15ml vial along with a 10mg tablet of Valium and 9ml of water to make a 1:1 (1ml-1mg) solution.

 

Hope this info helps you  :smitten:

 

Thanks for sharing this level of detail, Bella!  :) 

 

An important dependency to these benzo solutbility values is temperature.  Jouyban ran these tests at ~300K (~80F, ~27C); so, a bit higher than one's typical room temperature.  If using these values, definitely don't refrigerate or the benzo may come out of solution.

 

BB member SG57 also pointed out:

"I think the reason the PG/water and alcohol/water methods work is the fact that benzos DO dissolve in water...just enough.  The benzo is first dissolved in a small amount of either PG or alcohol, then diluted with water and the resulting mixture is essentially water...usually ~98%...yet the benzo remains in solution.  Fortunately for us, Jouyban measured water solubility for all the common benzos.  Here is the water solubility data we have from Jouyban.

 

Solubility of Benzos in Water (mg/ml)

Valium      .04

Ativan        .05

Librium      .11

Klonopin    .03

Xanax        .04

 

When using the PG/water and alcohol/water methods we need to keep the concentration of benzo BELOW these values.  A solution strength of .01mg/ml (1mg=100ml) or less is probably a good rule to follow."

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97737.msg2077042#msg2077042

 

sierra

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Thanks for sharing this level of detail, Bella!  :) 

 

An important dependency to these benzo solutbility values is temperature.  Jouyban ran these tests at ~300K (~80F, ~27C); so, a bit higher than one's typical room temperature.  If using these values, definitely don't refrigerate or the benzo may come out of solution.

 

BB member SG57 also pointed out:

"I think the reason the PG/water and alcohol/water methods work is the fact that benzos DO dissolve in water...just enough.  The benzo is first dissolved in a small amount of either PG or alcohol, then diluted with water and the resulting mixture is essentially water...usually ~98%...yet the benzo remains in solution.  Fortunately for us, Jouyban measured water solubility for all the common benzos.  Here is the water solubility data we have from Jouyban.

 

Solubility of Benzos in Water (mg/ml)

Valium      .04

Ativan        .05

Librium      .11

Klonopin    .03

Xanax        .04

 

When using the PG/water and alcohol/water methods we need to keep the concentration of benzo BELOW these values.  A solution strength of .01mg/ml (1mg=100ml) or less is probably a good rule to follow."

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97737.msg2077042#msg2077042

 

sierra

 

Hey sierra7!

 

Thanks for sharing this info. I think it is important for those who do not want excessive alcohol to have this information available when planning their taper in order to create a viable solution and help minimize discrepancies.

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Just replace the alcohol with propylene glycol.

 

I have kindled to alcohol so I absolutely refuse to use any at all but both PG and alcohol have the general 2mL per mg guideline so you don’t even have to change any math - in fact, when my PG gets here tomorrow I’m making the exact same 40MG 80mL/320mL solution just with PG instead.

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I just made my first batch and I have to say it was remarkably easy... I started off tossing the pills in and putting the PG on top and it wasn’t dissolving (normal) then I added the water and it quickly dissolved and about 10 minutes later I swirled the mason jar and ended up with a solution with just filler particulate matter at the bottom.

 

As for my cuts, I’m doing .28mg every 14 days so I have a simple .02mg per day cut which comes out to 4.82% off my current 5.8mg (I was scale micro tapering but got fed up with it quickly so I only managed to get down .2mg of my dose).

 

Since I’ll still be taking a whole 5mg pill and just cutting the .8mg down for now, I don’t expect to have too many problems but I was in bed extremely sick since Friday (flu) so I am going to hold at 5.8 for the next couple days.

 

Also I decided to cut my batch down to 20mg (40mL PG/160mL water) since I’ll be drawing so little daily. This should last me about two weeks which is the most I am comfortable with when using tap water (my personal care didn’t show up today so I will have to send her to get distilled water on Wednesday).

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Ethereal -

 

Sounds like you have a good plan. I am also waiting a bit to switch to liquid. My plan was to switch completely to the liquid so I hope i don't have a problem crossing over. I am soooooo bad at math that I don't want to mess up doing pills and liquid.

 

Let me know how it goes!

 

Pete

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Pete, I hear ya on the math but it’s pretty simple. The calculator makes it easy for one but two, once you get it worked out, you figure it out.

 

The only thing I’m going to have to contend with is the taste of the PG... I forgot how much I dislike the taste of it. I’ve had worse things though and its not so bad it gagged me or anything so if it works then I’m all for it and I’ll just have to get used to it.

 

Try not to stress too much, lots of helpful people here.

 

-Rob

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello Ethereal,

 

I hope the recent liquid taper cuts are going well for you.

 

I am seriously considering doing this now (and trying to fully comprehend the method) and I am reading your progress with interest.

 

I read that you were very sick in bed with the flu.  Did this come on after you had made the cut or were you sick previous to making the cut?  I am just wondering if you could have felt like you had the flu from the cut...I know withdrawal often mimics the flu.

 

The reason I ask is because my body/brain do not like change.  I tried a liquid (pharmacy-made) taper years ago, and it was a disaster. My body obviously absorbed the liquid differently. I took my whole dose in liquid form for a few nights to get used to it and I felt almost as though I had C/T'd.  I didn't stick it out...I went back to the dry-cutting pills.

 

I am considering putting just 25% of my dose in liquid form, but I really fear the same thing will happen as I have become more and more sensitized over the years.  It is imperative that I begin tapering again as I am ill and valium seems to be the culprit.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

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Just a precaution...

 

while most compounding pharmacies/pharmacists are dilligent and professional, you really don't know exactly what your getting.  If you make your own liquid, you know exactly what it is, and what the proportions are.

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I make my own liquid (thanks to Builder) and it is working very well. I now do not notice cuts with a DLMT - I have been the same s/x wise since starting this 5 days ago - even better than "the same" as when I did cut and hold it was all good, until it wasn't...at all.

 

It's very easy to make your own solution using water and vodka. I made a batch that will last me for 21 days.

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Hello Ethereal,

 

I hope the recent liquid taper cuts are going well for you.

 

I am seriously considering doing this now (and trying to fully comprehend the method) and I am reading your progress with interest.

 

I read that you were very sick in bed with the flu.  Did this come on after you had made the cut or were you sick previous to making the cut?  I am just wondering if you could have felt like you had the flu from the cut...I know withdrawal often mimics the flu.

 

The reason I ask is because my body/brain do not like change.  I tried a liquid (pharmacy-made) taper years ago, and it was a disaster. My body obviously absorbed the liquid differently. I took my whole dose in liquid form for a few nights to get used to it and I felt almost as though I had C/T'd.  I didn't stick it out...I went back to the dry-cutting pills.

 

I am considering putting just 25% of my dose in liquid form, but I really fear the same thing will happen as I have become more and more sensitized over the years.  It is imperative that I begin tapering again as I am ill and valium seems to be the culprit.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Hi snowflake,

 

I am pretty sure I actually got the flu because the roommates kid had it a few days before I came down with it and I have never had benzo withdrawal give me a fever before. I felt very very sick and was afraid that I was going to die — more than the fear I get from benzo withdrawal (I’ve been pretty much CT’d a number of times by “rapid detox”).

 

As for my liquid taper, I am holding for a few days. I’ve gotten down to 5.66mg but my symptoms ramped up a bit two days ago and I couldn’t even get out of bed. I think that my last .25mg pill cut finally hit me - although I noticed that I had an extra pill in the pill box so it’s possible I missed a 5mg dose somewhere in there. Either way, I was able to get up and take a shower today so I’ll hold 5.66mg until tomorrow and see how I feel.

 

One thing I really like about this is that I can control the dose variance much better than I could with pill splitting. If I really want to get accurate I’ll stop using the 10mL syringe to measure out the 6mL and just use the 1mL syringe to measure out the whole 6.6mL I need for the .66mg portion of my dose but 10mL syringe to 6 and the 1mL syringe for the rest seems accurate enough for my purposes.

 

I am not looking forward to explaining to my psychiatrist why I went against her wishes and did a liquid taper, however. Fortunately I don’t see her til April so hopefully by then I’ll have made enough progress over where I was when I got stuck that she will decide that I was right to make the change and she should have listened to me when I suggested it. Of course now it’s a moot point anyway because I won’t move to the pharmacy made stuff now that I see how easy it is for me to do it myself.

 

I would say that for me, I will continue to use whole pills and liquid for the rest of the taper but I am not expecting too much trouble with the liquid portion.

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