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Halfway Point of a Water Titration Taper


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I have a question regarding the halfway point of a water titration taper. I am looking to see what others have done in my situation and the results they’ve experienced.

 

I am presently tapering via water titration. I am now approaching 15mg, the halfway mark of the taper. 

  

Method Before the Halfway Point

 

I drop a 30mg drug tablet into 60/ml of water to form a drug solution. That means, for every 1mg of drug tablet, there is 2/ml of water. Up to this point, I have removed drug solution with syringes and consumed the remaining solution in the cup, the “dose.” The solution in the syringes is discarded. At present, I remove nearly half the drug solution from the cup; however, soon there will not be enough solution remaining to reliably pull up with a syringe.

  

Method After the Halfway Point

 

Do I now inverse the process? That is, do I now remove the “dose” with the syringes and discard the cup?  I mean, it looks like this is the only way to proceed. However, there are several issues with this.

 

Potential Issues

 

Removing 30/ml of drug solution theoretically removes 15mg of drug. Whether I am actually removing 15mg of drug, who knows. The most important thing thus far has been consistency as opposed to accuracy. But inverting the process causes a major shift in consistency.

 

1a. It seems clear I will be taking the same amount of drug solution. However, am I taking the same amount of drug? Do more or less drug particles get sucked into the syringe? 

 

1b. Is there any experiment to clarify this? I can see lots of white particles (the drug/filler or both) in both the syringes and cup. I am trying to see if I can evaporate the water and measure the particles left behind.

 

2. What about the drug left behind in the syringes? I use four syringes per taper. Even if I rinse the syringes, there will invariably be drug left behind there. This seems like a loss I must accept.

 

3. I am very sensitive to changes and conduct a micro taper so a significant change to the “dose” will definitely be felt. I am concerned that the “dose” may change.

 

What have others done in my situation at the halfway point?

 

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Why do you need to reverse the process? You can keep withdrawing the amount to discard using the syringe and drink what remains in the cup. If it's working for you, keep on doing the same thing.

 

That is my opinion.

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Why do you need to reverse the process? You can keep withdrawing the amount to discard using the syringe and drink what remains in the cup. If it's working for you, keep on doing the same thing.

 

That is my opinion.

 

Because beyond the half-way point, he will be throwing away more than 50% of his med.

 

"Pull and discard" is a silly way to take any med, IMO.  You wouldn't take any other med that way.  Just create a schedule of doses, and just drink the amount for each dose.

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Why do you need to reverse the process? You can keep withdrawing the amount to discard using the syringe and drink what remains in the cup. If it's working for you, keep on doing the same thing.

 

That is my opinion.

 

Because beyond the half-way point, he will be throwing away more than 50% of his med.

 

"Pull and discard" is a silly way to take any med, IMO.  You wouldn't take any other med that way.  Just create a schedule of doses, and just drink the amount for each dose.

 

What he said.

 

Also, dignan, it appears that you are attempting to titrate with water only. Is this correct? And what benzo are you tapering from?

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Thank you kindly for the responses. I don’t think my primary concern has been addressed.

 

Primary issue: At present, I remove nearly half the drug solution from the cup; however, soon there will not be enough solution remaining to reliably pull up with a syringe.

 

I cannot continue tapering this way because the lack of water makes it impossible. If I add more water and dilute the drug further, I will be using an inordinate number of syringes. Also, this generally seems like a more difficult and unreliable route to go.

 

I am presently removing drug with syringes and drinking what remains in the cup. Do I now inverse the process? That is, do I now remove the “dose” with the syringes? What do people typically do when they reach the halfway point?

 

I have been tapering for a few years now. I use only water and the dissolving drug tablet. I am not tapering a benzo. But this website seems to have a number of people doing water titration, and my question is about a water titration taper.

 

Thank you.

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Assuming that you are tapering a water-soluble drug, do this....

 

Instead of making single doses of liquid, make enough solution to last 7-10 days.  Then just draw up and drink the scheduled dose, as you would with any other liquid med.  You don't need to discard/throw away any med.

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Thanks again for the response.

 

I am not concerned about schedules or discarding drugs. I cannot seem to find anyone who has experience at the halfway point of a water titration taper, where the tapering process is now the inverse (taking the dose from the syringes as opposed to the cup). I really don’t understand how this is not a bigger issue in the drug tapering community.

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Builder,

 

  This is a YOUTUBE with Water Microtapering ...if you have a minute, watch it and that's what I'm doing only with MILK.

 

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Yes, and those videos are a wealth of misinformation.

 

They collectively have done incredible damage to the benzo recovery community.

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Thanks again for the response.

 

I am not concerned about schedules or discarding drugs. I cannot seem to find anyone who has experience at the halfway point of a water titration taper, where the tapering process is now the inverse (taking the dose from the syringes as opposed to the cup). I really don’t understand how this is not a bigger issue in the drug tapering community.

 

I am trying to understand where the confusion is. You are taking a liquid medication. You are drawing it out of a container with a syringe or measuring cup. How is it any different than a bottle of robitussin? When you get to the bottom of the bottle, you use that up and get (make) more? What am I missing? Builder, are you understanding this better than I am? I hate not understanding and I hate not being able to help. :/

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Thanks again for the response.

 

I am not concerned about schedules or discarding drugs. I cannot seem to find anyone who has experience at the halfway point of a water titration taper, where the tapering process is now the inverse (taking the dose from the syringes as opposed to the cup). I really don’t understand how this is not a bigger issue in the drug tapering community.

 

I am trying to understand where the confusion is. You are taking a liquid medication. You are drawing it out of a container with a syringe or measuring cup. How is it any different than a bottle of robitussin? When you get to the bottom of the bottle, you use that up and get (make) more? What am I missing? Builder, are you understanding this better than I am? I hate not understanding and I hate not being able to help. :/

 

You're correct, using a liquid to taper should be done no differently than a any liquid med you get from the pharmacy.  Just measure out your shceduled dose and take it.

 

The analogy I often use is...Imagine that your doc gives you a scrip for a liquid med, and the dosing instructions are "Take 10 tsp the first day, then reduce dose by 1 tsp  each day"

 

I'm pretty sure anyone would measure out and take 10 tsp day1, 9 tsp day 2, 8 tsp, day 3, etc.

 

But if dignan chooses to continue the pull and discard, then that's certainly up to him.  I have always said folks should follow whatever protocol they feel comfortable with.

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Builder,

 

  This is a YOUTUBE with Water Microtapering ...if you have a minute, watch it and that's what I'm doing only with MILK.

 

 

BTW, I have watched that video, and I have contacted that person and pointed out (with documentation), that benzos are NOT water-soluble and will NOT make a uniformly-distributed.  She replied and said the video is about making a suspension, and she is NOT telling people that its water-soluble.

 

If you search the comments on that video, you will probably find my exchange with her.  ::)

 

And its a silly video, no matter what her real point actually is. ;)

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Okay, now I get that he is doing pull and discard, but I still don't understand the issue he is having. It seems like you could follow this method all the way to zero if you wanted to. Sorry, dignan, I am just trying to understand in case this question comes up again. If someone can explain, I would love that. :)

 

And Builder, can someone even make a suspension with water? What is the suspending agent? If you could make a suspension with just water, why does Ora-plus exist?

 

Sorry for all the questions. I am just a very curious person. You could call me a wannabe knowitall.

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And Builder, can someone even make a suspension with water? What is the suspending agent? If you could make a suspension with just water, why does Ora-plus exist?

 

Sorry for all the questions. I am just a very curious person. You could call me a wannabe knowitall.

 

Well, it's NOT really a suspension, its more like your anology with stirring sprinkles in a jar water.  A suspension agent/liquid must have sufficient viscosity ("thikness") to hold the particles in place.  Water has very low viscosity, so really can't create a suspension either. 

 

When you combine insoluble particles (like sprinkles  ;)  ) with water,  depending on their mass, they will either sink to bottom or float to the top.

 

IMO, the major reason for so many folks not getting it is, they see the tablet deconstruct/disintegrate, and assume that the benzo is going into solution.  But its NOT.  And the grossly misleading videos on YouTube simply add to the myth.

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Builder,

 

  This is a YOUTUBE with Water Microtapering ...if you have a minute, watch it and that's what I'm doing only with MILK.

 

 

BTW, I have watched that video, and I have contacted that person and pointed out (with documentation), that benzos are NOT water-soluble and will NOT make a uniformly-distributed.  She replied and said the video is about making a suspension, and she is NOT telling people that its water-soluble.

 

If you search the comments on that video, you will probably find my exchange with her.  ::)

 

And its a silly video, no matter what her real point actually is. ;)

 

Just FYI, I searched back through the comments of that video, and found my discussion with her.  Here is her first response:

 

"I specifically said they are not (water-soluble)  in this video. That's why I demonstrate how to make a suspension , not a solution"

 

(emphasis is mine)

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Thanks again for the responses.

 

I am not taking a liquid drug. I am dissolving a drug tablet (non-benzo) into water.

 

I think what Builder is suggesting is that I make a higher volume of drug solution so that, if I wish, I may continue to pull and discard the syringes as is my current method.

 

However, I am not interested in continuing my current method. (I am concerned about changing the drug solution itself, and it would take too many syringes.)

 

I plan to inverse the process. Instead of drinking the remaining drug in the cup, I plan to drink the drug solution directly from the syringes.

 

I am concerned about the changes from altering the process. I was looking for people who have experience with this, but I now suspect I’m probably looking for very few people.

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Thanks again for the responses.

 

I am not taking a liquid drug. I am dissolving a drug tablet (non-benzo) into water.

 

Not to be nit-picky, but then its a "liquid drug".

 

I think what Builder is suggesting is that I make a higher volume of drug solution so that, if I wish, I may continue to pull and discard the syringes as is my current method.

 

No, that's not what I suggested, although that would be a logical option if you want to continue "pull and discard".  What I was suggesting was you make a multi-day (multi-dose) batch and simply dose it from that supply, just as you would any other liquid med.

 

However, I am not interested in continuing my current method. (I am concerned about changing the drug solution itself, and it would take too many syringes.)

 

I plan to inverse the process. Instead of drinking the remaining drug in the cup, I plan to drink the drug solution directly from the syringes.

 

Yes, that's the obvious, simple solution, and no, it will not in any way change you the drug effects you.

 

I am concerned about the changes from altering the process. I was looking for people who have experience with this, but I now suspect I’m probably looking for very few people.

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If the drug you are dissolving in water is soluble in water, and therefore does dissolve in the water you are putting it in, it will not change anything to dose from the syringes instead of the "cup". If, however, it is not a water soluble drug and you are only disintegrating the pill in water, not truly dissolving it, then your dose may change significantly, because the distribution of med in the water is not consistent. If you want to share with us what drug you are mixing and how many mg, with how much water and how much you are dosing, etc, we could probably suggest a simple alternative or further resolve your concerns.
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